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1) could you use Egg Replacer? I think it has potato starch though, I know you don't use starches. I'm thinking of trying it with the next loaf I made.
2) I'm curious, what are the trade offs with keeping the loaf covered for the first few minutes? I could do that..... I used my second sandwich loaf pan to cover the last loaf I made while it was raising. The loaf didn't keep the height though. We are just making short sandwiches. It raised about to 3X but then fell to 2X, just approximating. I let it raise outdoors under the grill lid, where it was very warm, and baked it there too. Lighting the grill and closing the cover, I get 400 degrees within just a minute and it stays right there.
3) What is the ratio of pea flour to the rest that you use?
4) I know, I said three but thought of another one. Have you ever used a sweetener? I have been wondering if the yeast needs something more to feed on or is the sweet potato flour enough?
5) What type of yeast are you using? I have been using active dry yeast. I just have not been getting the height that you seem to be getting.
Less than half the amount of flour. Aha. That might be part of the problem. I think I measured out 2 cups of water and used it all. I had 4 cups total flours.
My son and I had sandwiches made from this bread when it was on it's third day, and I thought it was fine. I noticed that it crumbled a bit but other than that it was good and satisfying.
Since I last posted, we got test results back and found out that our son needs to be avoiding corn, eggs, peanuts, soy and many other things. This bread should work for us and I'm pretty happy that you posted this, I was ready to give up on gluten free bread because of the eggs and butter or oil involved.
Now I'm off to find a good mayo substitute to use on sandwiches. No more mayo because of eggs, it used to be Miracle Whip but had to give that up because of the gluten. Sigh.
RiceGuy - do you answer dumb questions for free? 'Cause I have one.
Say I wanted to try this recipe with xanthan gum, just for fun. I don't know enough about gluten free flours and baking yet to know what the differences are. But, someone here has mentioned that this bread has a feeling like slimey jelly in their mouth, and they don't like it. This doesn't happen with the xanthan gum bread. Would this be caused by the guar gum? I know that can get slimey feeling. Did I use too much of it, perhaps?
Anyway, I was thinking of trying it with xanthan and see how that is, but wanted to ask you first.
That is interesting. I actually HAVE some yellow pea flour. Also some black bean flour. I didn't know why I got them, just thought they sounded interesting. I'll be waiting to see what you come up with!
I think I should try a smaller pan and a scaled down recipe. I like the sandwich pan because the sides are at a right angle to the bottom, they don't angle outward like most other pans. I guess it doesn't matter much though. I would like larger slices of bread, too! Meanwhile, I'm the only one here who is going to eat this loaf. I think I better freeze some of it. I hope it freezes well!
I did find this recipe that uses yellow pea flour. I need to make it oil and egg free though, so don't know if that will be successful. http://2bglutenfree.blogspot.com/2009/08/no-fail-gluten-free-bread.html Of course, it has tapioca and potato starch in it, but that's the only gluten free bread recipe that calls for yellow pea flour that I've found so far.
OK, I've done some experiments. For several days I couldn't have the oven on for baking, it was just too hot. So I made bread in the gas grill. I did this recipe and another one that has been our standby for now but is just too light and fluffy.
The sweet potato/teff loaf did not turn out well, but I know what went wrong. I not only goofed with the proofing but then when it was baking, the gas tank ran dry and it sat for a while NOT baking while I didn't know the tank was done. Sigh.
So today, I baked again. Nice and cool here this morning so I could bake indoors. I mix my bread in my Kitchen Aid mixer and mixed the dough for 3 minutes with the paddle, just because that's what I have done with other breads that turn out well. I'll put my exact recipe below. I raised it UNCOVERED on top of the stove while another loaf baked. I had a pan with very hot water in it, and sat the bread pan over that and sort of tented it with foil. I didn't want to put plastic wrap on again because it caused problems with the other loaf, sticking to the dough because it rose so fast. I think it was humid enough that it didn't dry out, but not humid enough to wet the dough. I usually proof my bread in the oven with the light on and a pan of water underneath that has been heated to boiling.
This bread is OK. I like that it has no eggs or oil. It rose well and baked with almost no loss in height. It is heavy, good solid bread and the only problem, besides a slight tendency to crumble at the shoulders while slicing, is that the flavor isn't really remarkable. It's OK, improves with butter according to those who tried it that way, and will make OK sandwiches.
Put dry ingredients in bowl of mixer and allow to mix on low with paddle while measuring and heating the water.
Add 2 cups warm water and 1 teaspoon apple cider vinegar. When all combined, I turned the mixer on high and beat for about 3 minutes. The dough was the consistency of thick cookie dough. Spooned into a oiled and rice-floured sandwich loaf pan that measures 11 X 4 1/2 X 3 inches high. I smoothed it flat with wet fingers and let raise about 40 minutes or until more than doubled. Baked at 375 for one hour. Thermometer stuck into center read 200 degrees.
The top did not brown, looks very white and my first thought was "Tales From the Crypt"! The bread is heavy but not dry or too wet, holds together OK but it does crumble a bit, and has thick crust. There are no big holes, it is pretty uniform through out the slice.
I'm wondering what can be done to enhance the flavor of this bread. Maybe onion and caraway?
What has worked for me in the past with other recipes is to brush the plastic wrap with oil, or spray with Pam, before putting it over the loaf to raise. I have also spritzed with water and left it in a warm oven and that has worked well with other recipes. I will cover it from now on though, I think I do get a better proof with the dough covered.
Until a couple weeks ago, the only bread we had was what I made from our own home ground wheat, kamut, rye, spelt, etc. I almost never added white flour so we're used to heavy, dense bread. I also made sourdough with no yeast that tasted like cheese, I put mixed cracked grains in it. Could only make that in the winter, it didn't work well in summer. Ah well, doesn't matter now. Unless someone can tell me how to make it gluten free.
I ordered sweet potato, black bean and yellow pea flour and some other stuff from Barry Farms on Sunday and got it today. I'm impressed! Too hot here to bake today, and I was busy with other stuff. Maybe tomorrow, and it will be baked in the grill if I get to doing a test loaf. My husband is intrigued by "sweet potato flour"! Another Food Adventure!
I baked two batches of bread yesterday, the first with ground flax and the second without. The second loaf was better tasting and didn't have as "slimey" of a mouth feel. The height it rose to is what it baked at and there was very little shrinkage or contraction of the bread once cooled like I've had with every other recipe I've tried. There is definitely something different about using the psyllium.
I am excited about trying sweet potato flour! Can't wait until my order arrives to try it. Meanwhile I have to use up this Four Flour mix. So far it was the favorite of any of the others I tried, but definitely tastes better with butter and eggs in it.
I decided that since we needed bread, I would use the mix I have made up from Bette Hagman's book, it's the four flour bread mix that already has xanthan gum in it. I have been trying to make it with no eggs or oil, the last batch rose but not much, and I divided it between my TWO sandwich loaf pans so I ended up with real short slabs of bread.
So, I used the 4 1/2 cup size batch, used flax egg sub and no oil, total of 1 1/2 cups hazelnut milk and added one tablespoon of the psyllium husk (not Metamucil, real psyllium husk). The dough was dryer than normal, dryer than mashed potatoes but after my first experience I knew that the psyllium husk would probably be absorbing a lot of my liquids. I beat it for 3 minutes and scraped down the bowl several times, then smoothed it into the pan, spritzed the top with water and set it to rise on my stove. Let it rise for almost a whole hour, in the past it was only 40 minutes.
I preheated my outdoor gas grill to 400 with the thermometer stuck into a hole in the top of the grill, and baked the loaf for one hour at 400, sitting on the upper rack of the grill. I brushed the top of the loaf with olive oil.
I've experimented with baking in the grill before and can get real good results so felt pretty confident it was about the same as baking in the oven indoors. Too hot here today to have the oven on though!
I lost no height, after letting the dough rise to just over the top, it stayed right there. I waited 10 minutes after taking it out to cut it and the center is done, good texture but perhaps a bit on the "gel" feeling side. This is tolerable though, if I can get bread that does not collapse. And, this is the FIRST loaf I've made in the past month of trying to make gluten free bread that did not collapse or pull in.
The only problem is that it's not getting rave reviews from the intended consumers. Ah well. I think leaving out the flax seed might help, it gives this bread an off taste, with the bean flours. At least that is my theory! I'm told it's great with butter on it.
I am ordering sweet potato flour! Thank you for the link to Barry Farm, their prices are nice.
RiceGuy, where do you get sweet potato flour? The only place I've found it is Amazon for 12.95 plus over 8 bucks shipping. For one pound. I love to try new things but I am really not wanting to spend that much money! There is other flour that I see looks like it's white, rather than the sweet potato orange color, and is much cheaper. Is that what you're using, or do you have the orange stuff?
I am enjoying experimenting like this, especially now that I'm using just a half cup of flour! Can't believe I didn't think of that myself, I feel so silly. But, sometimes things don't work out as well when you cut the recipe down or double it or something.
Also, like I said, I have "real" psyllium husk now and can try that today, I think. Maybe the Metamucil is just not working the same.
Another thing I have been meaning to ask - do you grease and then dust your pan with rice flour? If I don't do that, I have terrible trouble with sticking. I'm greasing with olive oil, brushed on.
It's a sandwich loaf pan that I used to put 6 cup batches of wheat bread in. It has straight sides, rather than sloped, and I have been using it for all my other gluten-free bread trials.
I never should have wasted that much stuff on an experimental loaf. It did make really good bread pudding though!
My second attempt was a failure too. I did what you suggested and scaled the recipe down to use 1/2 cup flour. Got a good rise but in the oven it went back to 2X. Inside was done but quite fluffy and not sliceable. It crumbled too.
I got some real psyllium husk today and will experiment if I can the next few days. Our AC is out though, and it's supposed to be in the 90's tomorrow. So I might not be allowed to turn on my oven!
Oh, I hope hope hope the Viennas you're talking about are Koegel! I believe the brand is only in the Michigan area. Is this the brand you're talking about? Koegel's Viennas are indeed safe? This would be SUCH good news to a gal who desperately NEEDS good news this week. I've already had three bread baking failures, but that's a whole 'nuther discussion.
I think the "older" threads here are invaluable. It is a treasure trove for those of us just starting out. I was able to see that date and knew the thread was old.
Originally, I saw that someone had eaten Koegel's beef franks and got sick. So the seed of doubt was sewn in my mind as to the safety of Viennas - since it's a small company and they probably make everything in the same pot, so to speak. Since no one here in my house gets falling-down-on-the-floor sick from eating gluten foods, there is no way for me to know for sure if they are safe or not by just eating them. So, when the company guy says they are safe but doesn't seem to display a good knowledge of what constitutes safe, I would rather just avoid the food rather than risk going backwards with this. That was why I posted here on this thread, to see if anyone had any updated information.
1 cup teff
1/2 cup masa harina
1 c. brown rice flour (King Arthur)
1/2 c. millet
1/2 c. potato flour
1 T guar gum
2 T Metamucil (used double the amt. I would have used of plain psyllium husks because of the sucrose - not knowing how much of the volume of Metamucil is actually psyllium and how much is sucrose, I just guessed)
1/4 c. ground flax mixed with 1/2 c. water
1 t. cider vinegar
1 t. salt
3 T brown sugar
3 c. plus 2 T water
edited to add:
1 tablespoon dry yeast!
I'm guessing that I didn't use enough salt, but thought the batter tasted good. I used enough water to get mashed potato consistency.
After one hour at 375, the top is quite brown and crunchy, has a hard crust. The loaf collapsed a bit, down to just below the pan edge. Going into the oven it was above the pan edge. The bottom half of the loaf is wet and doughy. There are no pockets and no large holes in the loaf. Definitely destined for toast or french toast or bread pudding with the wet gummy interior though! The outer crust is done and thick and dry.
I think I need to use half the water that I used, and try again with plain psyllium, or maybe only use one tablespoon of the Metamucil?
The flavor of this is OK, but needs salt. I think I would use two teaspoons salt next time. This is the closest to what I call "bread" that I've come so far! I love the whole grain-y-ness of this and the thick crust.
Already I have nibblers taking slices and toasting it, slathering with butter. So much for my "healthy" oil free bread!
RiceGuy - do you use eggs and oil? I really need to eliminate both from my breads. I have been using ground flax and water, letting it stand until like egg whites and just omitting the oil in recipes. Should I just DO IT and see if it works??