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Ok, I've been reading a lot more about zonulin and what I've read thus far is pretty darn amazing.
Of course we all know by now that Zonulin causes these tight junctions, the barrier from the contents of the GI to the other side of the cells, to open.
It appears that in folks with celiac disease and even treated celiac disease folks that the tjs are open a lot more than normal folks. And that when exposed to gliadin that zonulin causes these tjs to open even more, a lot more in celiac disease and celiac disease-treated, but also (news to me) in folks without celiac disease. It also appears that bacteria that reside in the gut also opens these tjs (even newer news to me).
Didn't realize that even bacteria had the key to our bodies.
Here's this one that shows that zonulin was part of the key for the bacteria.
Once the tjs are open more than normal this allows stuff to pass through, in some cases gliadin and in others other food proteins or even bacteria. Once they pass through we develop the antibodies to these pathogens and all heck breaks loose.
Now I'm wondering why the gut would allow this bacteria to do this. Perhaps gliadin looks to what ever is turning on the zonulin like the bacteria and thus lets stuff on in.
Is there any science or research behind these cleanses? Colon, liver, etc?
Fasting, absolutely I've seen some research and see the benefit.
As for cleansing, I've not seen anything yet that leads me to believe that there is any basis in fact here.
After having the ultimate colon cleanse (prep for a colonoscopy) I didn't see anything that even closely resembled what these cleanses show to be in the GI. I think it's all just the contents of the cleanse formula binding up the GI contents that you see and not what is "stuck" to your insides.
Honestly I'm a sceptic, but I'm open to hear differently. About the only cleanse that makes sense to me is water and lots of it. And perhaps a massage for getting the "gunk" out of the muscle tissue.
Full text here:
I don't agree, but that's ok.
All you proved to me was that Drs know how to cover up problems by taking care of the symptoms with drugs. Something I already know. Plus this is all subjective, perhaps folks just gave up on therapy because they weren't being helped and told the Dr they were cured. Give me a measurement one way or the other and I'll agree, otherwise you can't prove it.
Also, you do know that 2 of the top foods in the american diet are dairy and grains. I bet you also know that those two foods are broken down by the body to produce opioids. What happens when you give someone opoids or take them away, or take them chronically? What organs does this affect? What is this doing to our bodies long term? Can one get addicted to the opioids in these foods? If addicted to these foods does this explain why some folks cannot stop eating them? Is this addiction physical or mental? When this addicted person overeats, gets overweight and then depressed is this physical or mental?
Where does physical stop and mental begin? Again we don't know enough to say.
So which is it? Chicken or the egg? Am I sick because I'm depressed or am I depressed because I'm sick? How about admitting that both are valid reasons. Not in in all cases are both the case, but you can have one without the other. I'm not pulling this out of thin air, just do a pubmed search on sugar malabsorption and depression for example.
I DO however agree that the phychological aspect of this needs to be addressed.
In fact this is where I will again disagree. Especially with this:
The numbers indicate otherwise, the numbers point more towards therapy alone or therapy AND drugs, but not therapy OR drugs. Drugs only cover up a symptom. Without finding the cause you are just asking for trouble. That cause could be chemical or could be phychological or both.
Given that we're on a website where the majority of folks do have malabsorption issues, it is no longer rare. Given that folks who have malabsorption issues and have relatives who might have the same it is no longer rare. We're talking about a subset of folks here.
And given that sugar malabsorption and depression are linked, and given that there are a large number of folks who are lactose intollerant, who's to say that there aren't a good amount of these folks who are depressed because of a physical reason and not a mental reason?
Finally, standard blood tests would not pick up all physical reasons for depression. Let's see lactose intollerance isn't a standard blood test. Good luck finding a place that tests for fructose or other sugar malasorption issues. Small intestine bacterial overgrowth also causes sugar malabsorption, and tell me how often a SIBO test is done, definitly not a standard blood test.
In fact tell me what standard blood test would give me this information? I can't think of many. B12 maybe so long as it's not like calcium where it can look normal but is not. What else?
EDIT Oh, and prove this to me "Most of the time depression is just depression without a physical cause." I bet you can't. Especially given how little we really do know about the brain and body.
And just for kicks:
Small-bowel mucosal transglutaminase 2-specific IgA deposits in coeliac disease without villous atrophy: a prospective and randomized clinical study.
What was that again??? No "gold standard" positive biopsy but we have Celiac Disease. Perhaps I'm mistaken and someone could correct me.
Exactly, who knows what ranges are really valid. I was thinking about another example of this the other day when looking at calorie formulas. Who's to say that someday down the road we find out that gluten or some other food pathogen causes malabsorption in the majority of folks, so those numbers for calories (or some other measurement) are higher that what would be required if one were to not eat gluten. I'm not saying this is the case, but more of a what if. The same as with B12.
One other problem with measuring vitamin/mineral levels in the blood is that the body does a pretty good job of making sure that it gets what it needs. Calcium being top on the list. So you measure calcium in the blood and it's fine and dandy, but the problem is that the body gets calcium from the bones if it doesn't absorb it via the GI. So all the while your bones are being absorbed by your body and your calcium levels in the blood are always measuring correct. I wonder what other measurements might be like this.
I have no proof (yet) but given that Gliadin is a substrate for tissue transglutaminase as is Soy it sure does sound like there is potential.
Honestly I was terrified about the procedure and a bit about the outcome. Turns out the prepwork was the most terifying part in the end. (Ha ha, pun intended ) The outcome was not quite what I wanted as it turned out to be a rare disease (Lymphocytic Colitis) of which we know very little. But it did turn out for the positive. I found out that gluten can be a trigger and thus after removing gluten I got a lot better.
Thanks! Gotta figure out how you found those. I couldn't figure out a very good query for finding them.
So here we show that anti-ttg is not specfic. So therefore we should throw out these results using the same line of thought on stool testing. Clearly something we should NOT do.
But again I'm going to bring this up as no one has really commented on this yet. Look at the substrates involved in the diseases above (the tissues that are involved). Ttg binds to those and binds to other substrates. Some of those other substrates include Exogenous proteins (those that come from outside sources). Again imagine what is being bound to what and then imagine the bodies response to this "attack". How would the body remove these proteins bound to self proteins? It has to involve the immune system and cell death. So what ever tissue these proteins are bound to is going to be killed until the pathogen is gone. Even in a person who is NOT Celiac (again whatever that means). Keep ingesting the "pathogen" of gluten and the body senses a constant infection that doesn't go away. What is the bodies response to a chronic constant infection? This part I don't know yet, but I imagine it involves stress to the regulatory mechanisms of the immune system, including the thymus (whose responsibility it is to not produce antibodies to self tissue).
Let me ask you this, not that I think it's the cause in this particular case, but what are some of the causes of depression or anxiety? I'm talking about chemical/nerological/biological. This is a leading question by the way.
Actually it would be a large mistake to tell people who had depression, neuropathy, diarrhea, asthma, pneumonia (and 99% of these are not related to celiac) who removed gluten from their diet and got better that gluten wasn't the problem.
Just like it was a huge mistake to tell folks with Ulcers that it was all in their head and that if they had less stress they wouldn't get them. Seemed that they made a mistake there.
Just like it was a mistake that Celiac Disease is a disease of children and that only the classic symptoms would lead them to this diagnosis.
I'm sure there a great many more mistakes made by our current Drs that will someday down the road have similar resolutions.
And I really don't see how Antibodies to Ttg could be so highly specific, given all the functions of this enzyme and the related tissues, how can their not be other diseases/pathogens that end up causing these antibodies to be produced? This isn't exactly rhetorical either, I'm really interested.
Heck, when did we make this discovery for anti-ttg and Celiac, wasn't it pretty recent? If we went on the studies before anti-ttg was found we'd be making a similar mistake with some other antibody.
Exactly, which is why (I remarked on it in an earlier post) I found the studies showing that certain pathogens (one was a fungi and the other was a virus, that both look like gliadin) weren't the cause of Celiac quite laughable. They said because pathogen A only showed up in X% of cases it wasn't a trigger, others said that because pathogen B only showed up in Y% of cases it wasn't a trigger. Hello, how about looking into multiple triggers, multiple pathogens that brought about lack of tolerance to proteins. Seems pretty plausable to me.
Along the same lines I'm starting to think that the Lymphocytic Colitis (Microscopic Colitis) is most likely a symptom of something else. Some unsuspected/undectected pathogen.
Seems that bacteria and other pathogens are pretty clever. Take a look at this recent article:
Huh, some pathogen is able to mimic something else in the body and cause all sorts of problems.
I think they're clever enough to avoid current detection for sure, and I know that they are clever enough to hide away and turn on at a later time.