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When A Pancake Is A Paincake


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#1 RiceGuy

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

Hi everyone.

 

As I refined my pancake recipe, I found that sometimes I'd get really sick afterwards. This seemed to be the case more and more, until I just didn't want to make them, being sure I'd regret it later. But since it didn't happen with an earlier incarnation of the recipe, I knew it had to be something regarding the changes I'd made to it. I simply had to figure out what the trouble was.

 

What I've determined is that the flour must be completely cooked, or it will make me sick, even if they don't look or taste raw at all. And, much to my chagrin, this depends mostly on the types of flours being used. Cooking them longer didn't get them cooked enough, even when partially burning them. Altering the thickness of the batter has not helped either.

 

The flours that have proved to be trouble thus far are legume (bean) flours. They all seem to require a longer cooking time than can effectively be achieved with pancakes. Or, perhaps the inside of the pancake doesn't get hot enough for this type of flour. Since the very same flours pose no such problem in breads and other things, and since precooking the flour renders them perfectly safe in pancakes, it certainly points to the fact that the flour isn't getting fully cooked. It is disappointing, as I found certain legume flours really help to get a nice texture and flavor in pancakes. Incidentally, even though precooking the flour makes it safe, it also ruined the texture of the finished pancake. So that's really not a satisfactory solution.

 

It also seems that other ingredients which retain moisture may prevent the pancake from cooking fully. This further complicates the matter of obtaining the best texture. Although I find the addition of xanthan or guar gum simply creates a soggy pancake, I did get good results with psyllium husk powder. However, this too tends to prevent the flour from cooking fully, so now I leave that out as well.

 

Currently, buckwheat flour alone is my preference. I recently tried adding some sorghum flour, but neither texture nor flavor was as good. I think I'll try some quinoa next time, and see if that makes an appreciable improvement. I tried some quinoa in the past, and I recall it wasn't bad in small amounts, but that was a much earlier (and different) recipe, so I have to try it again. Thing is, quinoa is comparatively costly, so it'd have to really make a good pancake to be worth it. The buckwheat works pretty well though, just not quite as nice as I'd been getting with some legume flours.

 

BTW, I don't use dairy or eggs, so the remaining ingredients become that much more important.

 

Perhaps those with stronger digestion never notice a partially uncooked pancake. Looking on the bright side, I don't have any craving for raw cookie dough. Can't imagine how I'd feel after a spoonful of that!

 

I'll be updating this thread as I figure out what other flours can safely be used in pancakes.


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#2 shadowicewolf

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

You know, now that you mention it, that might be the problem with mine. I use the gluten-free bisquick recipe (riceflour, potato starch, xanthium gum?, leavening, sugar, and something else) and nearly every time i've had them, my stomach didn't like it. But get this, i can make my coffee cake recipe (made with yellow cake gluten-free betty crocker mix) and even though the ingredients are identical (in different quantities), i don't get a stomach ache after that (both use eggs, pancakes use milk, cake uses butter and water and honey).

 

I've been thinking it either has to do with the fact that maybe it wasn't cooked enough, or that i used too much olive oil to grease the pan.

 

You gave me some food for thought. :)


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#3 JNBunnie1

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:48 AM

Maybe cook beans and then make flour out of them? No idea if that would work.

 

 

Also, big giggle at your topic heading... :lol: :lol:


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#4 RiceGuy

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:58 AM

Well, with those rather starchy ingredients, I can't be sure if the xanthan would complicate getting them cooked fully. Starches do tend to cook more quickly compared to most flours. However, perhaps you should try an oil with a higher heat tolerance than olive. I always got sick from pancakes when the oil wasn't heat-stable enough. Coconut oil may be better, or regular butter. There's also macadamia nut oil, expeller pressed rice bran oil, or sunflower/safflower oil. I prefer safflower oil (the high oleic type tolerates heat better).


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#5 RiceGuy

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:06 PM

Maybe cook beans and then make flour out of them? No idea if that would work.

I think that'd be the same as cooking the flour beforehand, which I tried. But making flour out of cooked beans doesn't sound like something particularly easy to do anyway. And again, the texture isn't right if the flour is precooked.


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#6 gatita

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

I just loved your post title LOL...

 

...and then got sucked into the thread.

 

I've been baking brownies and blondies with canned black beans and white beans since going on South Beach Diet, so I don't see why they wouldn't work for pancakes too. Not a flour of course, but blended with eggs, a little oil and baking powder they certainly make "batter."


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#7 Takala

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:39 PM

Some thoughts: 

 

Have you tried pre- soaking the legume flour or pancake mixture in water with safe vinegar or acidic juice (sans the baking powder/soda) overnight ?

 

Can you use soaked chia seed as a gelling agent ?  I've been experimenting with sugar free, stevia sweetened buckwheat pancakes.  The good news is that I can make them with only buckwheat, chia, and a little yogurt, plus the liquids & spices, and they come out great if you use enough sweet spice to overcome the slightly bitter stevia.  Would they work without the yogurt?  I think so.   The bad news is that, ohmygosh, I managed to gain 3 pounds after 2 weeks, and I'm exercising a lot more anyway  :ph34r:  :o


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#8 RiceGuy

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:54 AM

I just loved your post title LOL...

 

...and then got sucked into the thread.

 

I've been baking brownies and blondies with canned black beans and white beans since going on South Beach Diet, so I don't see why they wouldn't work for pancakes too. Not a flour of course, but blended with eggs, a little oil and baking powder they certainly make "batter."

 

Yeah, I use legumes in many ways, including similarly to what you describe. However, my experimenting has already shown that such a batter just won't solidify into a pancake. Also, I can't use eggs, which I know does further complicate the matter.

 

Some thoughts: 

 

Have you tried pre- soaking the legume flour or pancake mixture in water with safe vinegar or acidic juice (sans the baking powder/soda) overnight ?

 

Can you use soaked chia seed as a gelling agent ?  I've been experimenting with sugar free, stevia sweetened buckwheat pancakes.  The good news is that I can make them with only buckwheat, chia, and a little yogurt, plus the liquids & spices, and they come out great if you use enough sweet spice to overcome the slightly bitter stevia.  Would they work without the yogurt?  I think so.   The bad news is that, ohmygosh, I managed to gain 3 pounds after 2 weeks, and I'm exercising a lot more anyway  :ph34r:  :o

 

Interesting idea - allowing the batter to sit with acidity. I guess the idea there is to deactivate certain enzymes. I cannot say it won't work, so I'll try it. Thank you.

 

As for the chia seed gel, I have tried it, but it doesn't seem to really do much for the texture. But that's not the trouble. With or without any gelling agent, gums, or other such ingredients, the legume flours still don't seem to cook fully. I already get decent pancakes using only buckwheat for the flour. But even then, gelling agents and such tend to prevent the flour from cooking completely.

 

Incidentally, I do use Stevia, and the one I use doesn't have any bitterness that I can tell. Although I've been using it for quite awhile, so perhaps I'm accustomed to it. It does taste different than sugar, but not in a bad way IMHO. I've also found that adding a bit of salt with it greatly improves the taste, without adding saltiness. But I find that I don't really need to sweeten the pancakes anyway.

 

I'm sure that slightly undercooked flour doesn't pose a problem for persons with a more functional digestive system.


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#9 formygirl

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

i'm new to all of this, but my daughter can't have eggs either, so i do the gluten-free bisquick with a banana instead of the egg, and i use coconut oil to sub the veg oil.  they turn out great...  even better w/ chocolate chips ;)


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#10 RiceGuy

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:56 AM

i'm new to all of this, but my daughter can't have eggs either, so i do the gluten-free bisquick with a banana instead of the egg, and i use coconut oil to sub the veg oil.  they turn out great...  even better w/ chocolate chips ;)

 

Thanks. However, since banana holds considerable moisture, it would prevent the flour from being completely cooked. That seems to be what makes me sick afterwards. It seems that most people aren't effected by partially uncooked pancakes though, and so that tells me something about my gut too. I do get decent results the way I make them now. It's just that they turn better with flours which simply don't get fully cooked. So I'm hoping that somehow I can find a way to get them to cook completely, using other flours in addition to buckwheat.


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#11 GFinDC

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

Hi Riceguy,

 

I am not a big pancake cooker myself, but I did experiment with them when I first went gluten-free.  one flour that I found had great results was pea flour.  I don't know if that would work for you of course but might be worth trying.  I bought some split peas at the grocery and ground them up  into flour.  My pancakes were green from the pea color though, so kinda unusual looking.  But they did come out nice.  I suppose you could use yellow peas instead if you don't like green pancakes and spam. :)  I haven't tried making pancakes for quite a few years so I don't remember the recipe.  They came out nice and fluffy tho.


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#12 pricklypear1971

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:53 PM

I use a combo of sorghum superfine white, potato starch, tapioca starch. I actually went back to using my "gluten" recipe and subbing milk with buttermilk. All else stayed the same (including egg). I use extra light olive oil as a fat. I do cook in butter but found the recipe performs better using oil in the mix.

I had thought of trying carbonated water - club soda in place of buttermilk. I've seen a few recipes that use it and people rave about it.

I do find buttermilk is key to converting my recipe to gluten-free - really gives it "rise". The other thing is not to add too much liquid for a thicker pancake. Along that vein, what if you thinned the batter a bit? Or did you already try that? Thinner should cook more thoroughly.

I've also noticed they're super sensitive (more than gluten) to my pan temperature. I almost have to have my pan too hot.

I've seen recipes using almond flour...
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#13 RiceGuy

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

Hi Riceguy,

 

I am not a big pancake cooker myself, but I did experiment with them when I first went gluten-free.  one flour that I found had great results was pea flour.  I don't know if that would work for you of course but might be worth trying.  I bought some split peas at the grocery and ground them up  into flour.  My pancakes were green from the pea color though, so kinda unusual looking.  But they did come out nice.  I suppose you could use yellow peas instead if you don't like green pancakes and spam. :)  I haven't tried making pancakes for quite a few years so I don't remember the recipe.  They came out nice and fluffy tho.

 

Actually, pea flour is one of my favorites, and it does make good pancakes. I do use the yellow one too :) However, it also requires more cooking than what is achieved in a pancake. So I get sick on them just the same as other legume flours.

I use a combo of sorghum superfine white, potato starch, tapioca starch. I actually went back to using my "gluten" recipe and subbing milk with buttermilk. All else stayed the same (including egg). I use extra light olive oil as a fat. I do cook in butter but found the recipe performs better using oil in the mix.

I had thought of trying carbonated water - club soda in place of buttermilk. I've seen a few recipes that use it and people rave about it.

I do find buttermilk is key to converting my recipe to gluten-free - really gives it "rise". The other thing is not to add too much liquid for a thicker pancake. Along that vein, what if you thinned the batter a bit? Or did you already try that? Thinner should cook more thoroughly.

I've also noticed they're super sensitive (more than gluten) to my pan temperature. I almost have to have my pan too hot.

I've seen recipes using almond flour...

 

Yeah, sure did try a thinner batter, thicker batter, thinner pancake, thicker pancake, and every other variation I can think of. That's what lead me to the conclusion that the flour just doesn't cook thoroughly.


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#14 NiceNurse

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:57 AM

Hi everyone.

 

As I refined my pancake recipe, I found that sometimes I'd get really sick afterwards. This seemed to be the case more and more, until I just didn't want to make them, being sure I'd regret it later. But since it didn't happen with an earlier incarnation of the recipe, I knew it had to be something regarding the changes I'd made to it. I simply had to figure out what the trouble was.

 

What I've determined is that the flour must be completely cooked, or it will make me sick, even if they don't look or taste raw at all. And, much to my chagrin, this depends mostly on the types of flours being used. Cooking them longer didn't get them cooked enough, even when partially burning them. Altering the thickness of the batter has not helped either.

 

The flours that have proved to be trouble thus far are legume (bean) flours. They all seem to require a longer cooking time than can effectively be achieved with pancakes. Or, perhaps the inside of the pancake doesn't get hot enough for this type of flour. Since the very same flours pose no such problem in breads and other things, and since precooking the flour renders them perfectly safe in pancakes, it certainly points to the fact that the flour isn't getting fully cooked. It is disappointing, as I found certain legume flours really help to get a nice texture and flavor in pancakes. Incidentally, even though precooking the flour makes it safe, it also ruined the texture of the finished pancake. So that's really not a satisfactory solution.

 

It also seems that other ingredients which retain moisture may prevent the pancake from cooking fully. This further complicates the matter of obtaining the best texture. Although I find the addition of xanthan or guar gum simply creates a soggy pancake, I did get good results with psyllium husk powder. However, this too tends to prevent the flour from cooking fully, so now I leave that out as well.

 

Currently, buckwheat flour alone is my preference. I recently tried adding some sorghum flour, but neither texture nor flavor was as good. I think I'll try some quinoa next time, and see if that makes an appreciable improvement. I tried some quinoa in the past, and I recall it wasn't bad in small amounts, but that was a much earlier (and different) recipe, so I have to try it again. Thing is, quinoa is comparatively costly, so it'd have to really make a good pancake to be worth it. The buckwheat works pretty well though, just not quite as nice as I'd been getting with some legume flours.

 

BTW, I don't use dairy or eggs, so the remaining ingredients become that much more important.

 

Perhaps those with stronger digestion never notice a partially uncooked pancake. Looking on the bright side, I don't have any craving for raw cookie dough. Can't imagine how I'd feel after a spoonful of that!

 

I'll be updating this thread as I figure out what other flours can safely be used in pancakes.

coconut flour and ground flax seed work great!  xanthan gum is a laxative and can be easily left out of most recipes.  I do use one egg in my recipe, maybe you could find egg substitutes?  


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#15 Brandiwine

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:38 PM

Thanks. However, since banana holds considerable moisture, it would prevent the flour from being completely cooked. That seems to be what makes me sick afterwards. It seems that most people aren't effected by partially uncooked pancakes though, and so that tells me something about my gut too. I do get decent results the way I make them now. It's just that they turn better with flours which simply don't get fully cooked. So I'm hoping that somehow I can find a way to get them to cook completely, using other flours in addition to buckwheat.


I too use bisquick with EngerG powder egg replacer and they turn out great.
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