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Cheese Again


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16 replies to this topic

#1 designerstubble

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

Other opinions on cheese requested :D
My nutritionist doc (a new one) has just told me never to have cheese again as I am celiac. She said being celiac I will never completely heal my gi tract, and that cheese or dairy more specifically was detrimental to the absorption of vits and mins! Ok, kind of get her... But! Really??!
I know of celiacs that eat cheese... Would that be because they were not so damaged perhaps? .
Any personal opinion welcome. I've been df for 3 months. Tried introducing 1 month ago but got tummy pain.
Thanks
  • 0

Diagnosed Celiac Oct 2012 (Blood and Biopsy)
Gluten free / Dairy free / Caffeine / Almost sugar free / Tobacco free 2012. Corn free 2013
Vegetarian since 1986 / Asthmatic since 1990 / Migraines since 1998

 

Symptoms: Classical GI symptoms. Fibromyalgia. Odd pains. Bone aches. Severe headaches. Severe depression. Anxiety. Diagnosed with severe anaemia. Severe Vit D deficiency. Boderline Folate & B12 Defiency.

 

Since being gluten free... initially felt better for a month, still suffer with loose bowels, am currently struggling with many more allergies and intolerances to foods, such as dairy, egg, celery, oranges, tomatoes, quinoa, seeds,... Pressure hives (from Feb 2013) / Having bad leg aches during periods (June 2013)

(Marked in bold, these problems have been resolved)


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#2 kareng

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

All my biopsies were as flat as possible. I eat cheese. Some people without Celiac can't eat cheese because of lactose intolerances. Give it 6 months or a year and try it again.
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#3 Takala

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:20 PM

Where do they find these people ?   <_<  :angry:  :blink:  :huh:  :o  :ph34r:   

 

No, really, is this a licensed medical professional, or a registered dietician, what state, what affiliation ?  Don't have to give a name, just curious.  Do they promote a vegan diet, in general ?  There are some real whack-a-doodles running around the internet right now, and they're hooked into the various lobbies for promoting higher grain consumption or bogus health care related concerns, not whether or not one wishes to consume animal products on personal ethical grounds. 

 

2 bad misinformation statements:

 

1. Being celiac, you will never totally heal G.I. tract

2. cheese/dairy prevents absorption of vitamins & minerals 

 

You could still be a person who cannot handle dairy, as an adult, whether or not you are celiac or gluten intolerant.  This depends mostly on your genetics.  Some herding/agrarian  people evolved to be able to handle cow milk products, and they then moved up out of the "cradle of civilization" in the middle east thousands of years ago, to Europe and western Asia, and spread worldwide.   You could be reacting to the trace contamination of antibiotics in non - organic dairy, for example, and do better with organic or 'grass- fed only' milk products.  You may be sensitive to lactose, the milk sugars.  Or you can be reacting to casein, the milk proteins from cows.  You might be a person who can only handle goat's milk products.   You could still have ongoing damage and not have completely healed up yet, and still have to wait a while to attempt to reintroduce non lactose dairy, to see what happens. 

 

But to issue a blanket statement that "celiacs cannot do dairy, forever," is not accurate, in the least bit.  :angry:  It really depends on a whole host of other factors. 


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#4 IrishHeart

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

I am pretty sure you and I have had this discussion before, but I'll pipe in again.

 

Most celiacs can tolerate dairy, soy and everything under the sun ONCE THE VILLI regrow and the GI tract is healed.

 

My doc recommended 6 months DF, then give it a go. I waited 10.

 

I could not tolerate many foods, dairy included, at first but now, I enjoy it just fine. 

 

A blanket statement such as "NO celiacs can ever eat dairy"  is categorically incorrect.

 

Read the book Real Life with Celiac Disease for some honest, accurate info, including nutritional guidance.

 

http://www.barnesand...-ldn/1023352792


  • 0
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy



Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; finally DXed on 11/01/10. I figured it out myself. Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. Posted Image

#5 designerstubble

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:59 PM


All my biopsies were as flat as possible. I eat cheese. Some people without Celiac can't eat cheese because of lactose intolerances. Give it 6 months or a year and try it again.


Thanks, that's what I thought! I am just interested because of all the conflicting advise ! Ugh! I was marsh 3, dunno what I am now... I tried once then decided to leave it for a year, but this nutritionist doctor stumped me!
  • 0

Diagnosed Celiac Oct 2012 (Blood and Biopsy)
Gluten free / Dairy free / Caffeine / Almost sugar free / Tobacco free 2012. Corn free 2013
Vegetarian since 1986 / Asthmatic since 1990 / Migraines since 1998

 

Symptoms: Classical GI symptoms. Fibromyalgia. Odd pains. Bone aches. Severe headaches. Severe depression. Anxiety. Diagnosed with severe anaemia. Severe Vit D deficiency. Boderline Folate & B12 Defiency.

 

Since being gluten free... initially felt better for a month, still suffer with loose bowels, am currently struggling with many more allergies and intolerances to foods, such as dairy, egg, celery, oranges, tomatoes, quinoa, seeds,... Pressure hives (from Feb 2013) / Having bad leg aches during periods (June 2013)

(Marked in bold, these problems have been resolved)


#6 designerstubble

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

Where do they find these people ? <_< :angry: :blink: :huh: :o :ph34r:

No, really, is this a licensed medical professional, or a registered dietician, what state, what affiliation ? Don't have to give a name, just curious. Do they promote a vegan diet, in general ? There are some real whack-a-doodles running around the internet right now, and they're hooked into the various lobbies for promoting higher grain consumption or bogus health care related concerns, not whether or not one wishes to consume animal products on personal ethical grounds.

2 bad misinformation statements:

1. Being celiac, you will never totally heal G.I. tract
2. cheese/dairy prevents absorption of vitamins & minerals

You could still be a person who cannot handle dairy, as an adult, whether or not you are celiac or gluten intolerant. This depends mostly on your genetics. Some herding/agrarian people evolved to be able to handle cow milk products, and they then moved up out of the "cradle of civilization" in the middle east thousands of years ago, to Europe and western Asia, and spread worldwide. You could be reacting to the trace contamination of antibiotics in non - organic dairy, for example, and do better with organic or 'grass- fed only' milk products. You may be sensitive to lactose, the milk sugars. Or you can be reacting to casein, the milk proteins from cows. You might be a person who can only handle goat's milk products. You could still have ongoing damage and not have completely healed up yet, and still have to wait a while to attempt to reintroduce non lactose dairy, to see what happens.

But to issue a blanket statement that "celiacs cannot do dairy, forever," is not accurate, in the least bit. :angry: It really depends on a whole host of other factors.

Thanks takala!
You made me smile, thank goodness for people like you!!
I am in the UK. I personally believe we are a little behind on the times with regards to celiac. I lived in London until recently, I had a great doctor, but useless gastroenterologist. This consultant told me I should have healed in 9wks! I was gluten free for 9 weeks before biopsy then told I was not gluten free compliant as my biopsy results showed severe damage.
I have since moved. Again, completely useless doc. Changed again. This last one told me that my allergies (since bring gluten-free) are nothing to do with leaky gut and that leaky gut was a debatable condition.
So. I went privately. A classically trained medical doctor, knew all about leaky gut. Spoke lots of sense, agreed that a lot of my recent allergies were probably to do with leaky gut and an over active immune system etc... Then progressed to tell me that my gut would never heal completely. That I would never be able to eat gluten again (er, hello?!!) and that cheese was off the menu due to celiac being a malabsorption disease. The argument being that cheese 'coats' the mucosa and hinders the absorption of other vits etc.
She tried the old story 'what other animal drinks milk from a different species?/as adults we do not produce as much lactase' blah blah, usual contra dairy arguments. Having been veggie for 25 years I've heard about every possible theory argument on moral and ethical reasons for consumption of dairy or meat etc! I want hard facts! She seemed quite sure and confident that dairy was of no real use in our diet and must be avoided for sure being celiac! I kinda get her point in a way... But can't see that assuming that every meal wasn't a lump of cheese, that it would inhibit vit and min uptake?!
I really missed cheese to start with, dreamt about it too. I'm getting over cheese now slowly, but I must say I agree with you. Makes FAR more sense.
Thanks again :)
  • 0

Diagnosed Celiac Oct 2012 (Blood and Biopsy)
Gluten free / Dairy free / Caffeine / Almost sugar free / Tobacco free 2012. Corn free 2013
Vegetarian since 1986 / Asthmatic since 1990 / Migraines since 1998

 

Symptoms: Classical GI symptoms. Fibromyalgia. Odd pains. Bone aches. Severe headaches. Severe depression. Anxiety. Diagnosed with severe anaemia. Severe Vit D deficiency. Boderline Folate & B12 Defiency.

 

Since being gluten free... initially felt better for a month, still suffer with loose bowels, am currently struggling with many more allergies and intolerances to foods, such as dairy, egg, celery, oranges, tomatoes, quinoa, seeds,... Pressure hives (from Feb 2013) / Having bad leg aches during periods (June 2013)

(Marked in bold, these problems have been resolved)


#7 designerstubble

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:34 PM

I am pretty sure you and I have had this discussion before, but I'll pipe in again.

Most celiacs can tolerate dairy, soy and everything under the sun ONCE THE VILLI regrow and the GI tract is healed.

My doc recommended 6 months DF, then give it a go. I waited 10.

I could not tolerate many foods, dairy included, at first but now, I enjoy it just fine.

A blanket statement such as "NO celiacs can ever eat dairy" is categorically incorrect.

Read the book Real Life with Celiac Disease for some honest, accurate info, including nutritional guidance.

http://www.barnesand...-ldn/1023352792

I will order the book tomorrow thanks for the link. Yes, I know we touched on the subject before, it's just that I saw this new doc, I had high hopes for her and actually she has the been the best so far!
I think she meant that as a celiac we never recover all of our villi, especially if we have been severely affected. Therefore eating dairy coats the villi hindering nutrient absorption. This is why celiacs should not eat dairy!
Not my words, hers! This was only on Thursday, and it has been bothering me for a few days as I really can't believe I will NEVER have a cheesy spud again!! ;) it's been bothering me! I tried cheese reintroduction about 6 weeks ago but it caused tummy ache. So I decided to leave it a year. Happily. But I was surprised by this woman's response. I had high hope for her... I may even show her this thread to see what she says.
Thanks Irishheart, looking forward to reading the book
  • 0

Diagnosed Celiac Oct 2012 (Blood and Biopsy)
Gluten free / Dairy free / Caffeine / Almost sugar free / Tobacco free 2012. Corn free 2013
Vegetarian since 1986 / Asthmatic since 1990 / Migraines since 1998

 

Symptoms: Classical GI symptoms. Fibromyalgia. Odd pains. Bone aches. Severe headaches. Severe depression. Anxiety. Diagnosed with severe anaemia. Severe Vit D deficiency. Boderline Folate & B12 Defiency.

 

Since being gluten free... initially felt better for a month, still suffer with loose bowels, am currently struggling with many more allergies and intolerances to foods, such as dairy, egg, celery, oranges, tomatoes, quinoa, seeds,... Pressure hives (from Feb 2013) / Having bad leg aches during periods (June 2013)

(Marked in bold, these problems have been resolved)


#8 IrishHeart

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

I have never read a medical journal that says "as a celiac we never recover all of our villi"

 

and

 

"Eating dairy coats the villi" --hindering nutrient absorption?????

 

 

what the heck does that even mean?? how does dairy COAT the VILLI

 

Is this exactly what  she said? Are you sure, because this makes NO sense whatsoever, so I am skeptical of her advice. Sorry

 

 

 

You posted:

I think she meant that as a celiac we never recover all of our villi, especially if we have been severely affected. Therefore eating dairy coats the villi hindering nutrient absorption. This is why celiacs should not eat dairy! 
Not my words, hers.


  • 0
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy



Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; finally DXed on 11/01/10. I figured it out myself. Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. Posted Image

#9 designerstubble

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:16 AM

I have never read a medical journal that says "as a celiac we never recover all of our villi"

and

"Eating dairy coats the villi" --hindering nutrient absorption?????


what the heck does that even mean?? how does dairy COAT the VILLI

Is this exactly what she said? Are you sure, because this makes NO sense whatsoever, so I am skeptical of her advice. Sorry



You posted:
I think she meant that as a celiac we never recover all of our villi, especially if we have been severely affected. Therefore eating dairy coats the villi hindering nutrient absorption. This is why celiacs should not eat dairy!
Not my words, hers.

I cannot say if word for word this is EXACTLY what she said but I'd say my rendition is 85% there. The meaning however is completely there! She even drew me diagram to show how dairy 'coats' the lining over the villi. She asked me if I'd ever heard the old wives tale, 'drink a pint of milk before you go out drinking alcohol'... Obviously I have. She said there's more truth in it than we know as milk will line the stomach and stop alcohol absorption.
Which is fine and great but I said I thought I was talking about the villi in the small intestine? So she said 'same principle applies'.

She did say that in most people it didn't cause a problem but in celiac disease because of unrecovered damage to lining we had to encourage as much absorption as possible. Again, perhaps not exactly vertabim but pretty much
I'm glad you disagree. It's a shame, she seemed quite well informed otherwise.
  • 0

Diagnosed Celiac Oct 2012 (Blood and Biopsy)
Gluten free / Dairy free / Caffeine / Almost sugar free / Tobacco free 2012. Corn free 2013
Vegetarian since 1986 / Asthmatic since 1990 / Migraines since 1998

 

Symptoms: Classical GI symptoms. Fibromyalgia. Odd pains. Bone aches. Severe headaches. Severe depression. Anxiety. Diagnosed with severe anaemia. Severe Vit D deficiency. Boderline Folate & B12 Defiency.

 

Since being gluten free... initially felt better for a month, still suffer with loose bowels, am currently struggling with many more allergies and intolerances to foods, such as dairy, egg, celery, oranges, tomatoes, quinoa, seeds,... Pressure hives (from Feb 2013) / Having bad leg aches during periods (June 2013)

(Marked in bold, these problems have been resolved)


#10 IrishHeart

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:45 AM

Still flabbergasted by that sentence.  :lol:  

 

I do not think "old wives' tales" constitute sound medical advice.

 

The tips of the villi is where lactase, the enzyme that helps us to digest the  lactose in milk is produced.

When the villi grow back, people usually can digest lactose once more.

Some celiacs still have problems with dairy, yes, but not the vast majority.

 

Milk does not "coat the villi" and hinder nutrient absorption. If this were the case, wouldn't ALL people who

drink milk  be malnourished? celiac or not? 

 

May be time for a new dietician??.Or just read for  yourself and carve out a dietary plan. 

 

Look up Shelly Case or Tricia Thompson. REAL celiac R.Ds--their advice may be more helpful. IMHO


  • 0
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy



Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; finally DXed on 11/01/10. I figured it out myself. Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. Posted Image

#11 MissyShelle

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:16 AM

I noticed dairy bothering me way before I noticed gluten. But after reading up on Celiacs and gluten issues, I wonder if down the road, dairy will be okay for me. It'd be nice if it was. I do love cheese and ice cream, lol. 


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#12 designerstubble

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:22 AM

Still flabbergasted by that sentence. :lol:

I do not think "old wives' tales" constitute sound medical advice.

The tips of the villi is where lactase, the enzyme that helps us to digest the lactose in milk is produced.
When the villi grow back, people usually can digest lactose once more.
Some celiacs still have problems with dairy, yes, but not the vast majority.

Milk does not "coat the villi" and hinder nutrient absorption. If this were the case, wouldn't ALL people who
drink milk be malnourished? celiac or not?

May be time for a new dietician??.Or just read for yourself and carve out a dietary plan.

Look up Shelly Case or Tricia Thompson. REAL celiac R.Ds--their advice may be more helpful. IMHO

Thanks Irish.
I too was also quite shocked which is why I came on here to ask... I thought it over a few days, looked it up... And thought exactly what you said ... If that the case, wouldn't everyone that ate cheese be malnourished! I have to go back for pee analysis (payed money for it!)... So will seem it to be my last appt with her. I am going to show her this thread too. Perhaps she has further info!!

I will read up, I DO read up! Cheers
  • 0

Diagnosed Celiac Oct 2012 (Blood and Biopsy)
Gluten free / Dairy free / Caffeine / Almost sugar free / Tobacco free 2012. Corn free 2013
Vegetarian since 1986 / Asthmatic since 1990 / Migraines since 1998

 

Symptoms: Classical GI symptoms. Fibromyalgia. Odd pains. Bone aches. Severe headaches. Severe depression. Anxiety. Diagnosed with severe anaemia. Severe Vit D deficiency. Boderline Folate & B12 Defiency.

 

Since being gluten free... initially felt better for a month, still suffer with loose bowels, am currently struggling with many more allergies and intolerances to foods, such as dairy, egg, celery, oranges, tomatoes, quinoa, seeds,... Pressure hives (from Feb 2013) / Having bad leg aches during periods (June 2013)

(Marked in bold, these problems have been resolved)


#13 designerstubble

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:26 AM

I noticed dairy bothering me way before I noticed gluten. But after reading up on Celiacs and gluten issues, I wonder if down the road, dairy will be okay for me. It'd be nice if it was. I do love cheese and ice cream, lol.


Hi
I always had a diarrhea episode (4weeks long) when I ate too much pizza! And had the classic pale stool thing too! I think it was too much cheese, it was always on a fat overload day that it tipped me over...
I love cheese and ice cream too. I dream of cheesy baked potato, followed by green & blacks dark choc ice cream.... Oooooooo yum! I'm serious too, I dream about!!
  • 0

Diagnosed Celiac Oct 2012 (Blood and Biopsy)
Gluten free / Dairy free / Caffeine / Almost sugar free / Tobacco free 2012. Corn free 2013
Vegetarian since 1986 / Asthmatic since 1990 / Migraines since 1998

 

Symptoms: Classical GI symptoms. Fibromyalgia. Odd pains. Bone aches. Severe headaches. Severe depression. Anxiety. Diagnosed with severe anaemia. Severe Vit D deficiency. Boderline Folate & B12 Defiency.

 

Since being gluten free... initially felt better for a month, still suffer with loose bowels, am currently struggling with many more allergies and intolerances to foods, such as dairy, egg, celery, oranges, tomatoes, quinoa, seeds,... Pressure hives (from Feb 2013) / Having bad leg aches during periods (June 2013)

(Marked in bold, these problems have been resolved)


#14 smpalesh

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:29 AM

I am 3.5 months gluten free and I can't have dairy :(  I was still eating dairy until this past week but I was still sick all the time.  Then I finally decided to bite the bullet and get rid of dairy and my stomach bloat, gas, and diarrhea has gone away.  So I am going to do dairy free for 6 months and then try introducing small amounts again.  I don't know what in the world we are supposed to eat when we can't have gluten or dairy!


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#15 IrishHeart

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:35 AM

Everything else, hon! :) It's do-able, I assure you. Hang in there.


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"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy



Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; finally DXed on 11/01/10. I figured it out myself. Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. Posted Image


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