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Mrs. Dash Table Blend?


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25 replies to this topic

#16 dilettantesteph

 
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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:46 AM

Jyn, you need to remember that dh can present at any time for 2 yrs. or more even after going strict gluten-free. This is why dh is so vexing. How does one determine if it was food or simply a spontaneous outbreak? This is why my hubs & I will not eat anything that is produced on shared line, will not eat out, will only eat cert. gluten-free foods. This is how we keep from going crazy trying to figure out where the cc came from OR if it was spontaneous. The mental effects of this can be horrendous.

 

So, in short, in may or may not have been something you ate. And IF it was something you ate; it may have been the day before. It will screw your brain up & that's for sure!

 

Do you have a reference for a study for that 2 year thing?  I've heard that a lot but never seen the evidence.  Thank you


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#17 squirmingitch

 
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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:54 AM

Baillieres Clin Gastroenterol. 1995 Jun;9(2):371-93.
Dermatitis herpetiformis.
Source

Dermatology Department, St. Mary's Hospital, London, UK.

Abstract

Dermatitis herpetiformis (DH) is a relatively rare skin disorder with an estimated incidence of 1:10,000 in the UK. It is characterized by urticarial plaques and blisters on the elbows, buttocks, and knees, although other sites may also be involved. The eruption tends to be persistent: only 10-15% of patients have spontaneous remission over a 25-year study period. The disease is characterized by the presence of IgA deposits in the upper dermis of uninvolved skin and the diagnosis should not be made in the absence of these deposits. Two-thirds of patients have a small intestinal enteropathy with villous atrophy as seen in coeliac disease (celiac disease). However, the remaining third also show evidence of a gluten sensitivity in the intestine, as judged by increased lymphocytic infiltration of the epithelium. Villous atrophy also ensues after gluten challenge in those patients with previous normal villous architecture. The initial treatment of the rash is with one of the following three drugs, dapsone, sulphapyridine or sulphamethoxypyridazine. However, the rash also clears with gluten withdrawal. It must be stressed, however, that the average time to achieve significant reduction in drug requirements is 6 months and it can be over 2 years before drugs are no longer required. On re-introduction of gluten the eruption recurs. Patients with DH have a high incidence of auto-immune disorders, thyroid disease, pernicious anaemia, and insulin-dependent diabetes, and should be screened for those diseases on a yearly basis. As with coeliac disease there is also an increased incidence of lymphoma and a gluten-free diet appears to protect patients from this complication. The mechanism by which gluten causes the skin lesions has still to be elucidated, but current investigations implicate lymphocytes and cytokines in the pathogenesis. The original hypothesis of an antigen-antibody reaction in the skin with complement activation causing the skin lesions, may not be correct.

PMD         7549032   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7549032

 

http://celiacdisease...n-Free-Diet.htm

 

http://www.dermatiti...petiformis.org/

 

http://www.csaceliac...rpetiformis.jsp Even taking Dapsone; one has to stay on it for 2 years before it can be withdrawn.


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Self diagnosed dh Sept. 2011~~~ confirmed dx July 18, 2012
Gluten free Dec. 2011
Soy free Dec. 2011
Hubs self diagnosed dh March 30, 2012
Hubs gluten free March 30, 2012

Summer 2013 We both have added back a little soy which is near unavoidable & we are doing okay with that small amount.

 


#18 squirmingitch

 
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Posted 12 June 2013 - 08:27 AM

Steph, I will apologize for those references b/c they are not the best I have. I have better. They are all in my bookmarks which I have not organized. It will take me a lot of hunting to find the proper ones. And I'm having a great deal of trouble @ the computer right now. I was messing with the A/C handler & had to get into a contorted, twisted position on my back with my neck crooked & reach way up with my arms --- consequently my right shoulder hasn't worked for 3 days --- very painful & having dh i can't take anything but Tylenol & that in limited amounts. Sp please bear with me & I will hunt them up when I'm feeling better. As long as I remember to!  :D You can pm me a reminder & then I will be sure to remember.


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Self diagnosed dh Sept. 2011~~~ confirmed dx July 18, 2012
Gluten free Dec. 2011
Soy free Dec. 2011
Hubs self diagnosed dh March 30, 2012
Hubs gluten free March 30, 2012

Summer 2013 We both have added back a little soy which is near unavoidable & we are doing okay with that small amount.

 


#19 dilettantesteph

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:30 AM

That explains it.  I noticed that the first three items were the same thing.  Though they say that it can take 2 years for it to clear up, I don't know that I would interpret that study the same way that you did.  It also says this: "On re-introduction of gluten the eruption recurs."


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#20 dilettantesteph

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:22 AM

SquirmingItch, I'm sorry about your pain.  I hope you feel better soon.  I noticed that the reference you gave was from 1995.  I found "Guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of dermatitis herpetiformis" from 2009 that may be in those bookmarks you can't find right now.  It gives that 2 year statement too: "GFD alleviates gastrointestinal symptoms much more rapidly than the rash: it takes an average of 2 years of GFD for complete elimination of the cutaneous lesions, which invariably recurs within 12 weeks after the reintroduction of gluten"

 

My interpretation of this would be that it might take as long as 2 years to go away, but once gone, if it comes back, you have probably accidentally ingested some gluten.  This seems to be the case with my son.  Of course, that is something that should be discussed with a knowledgeable doctor.


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#21 pricklypear1971

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:11 AM

SquirmingItch, I'm sorry about your pain. I hope you feel better soon. I noticed that the reference you gave was from 1995. I found "Guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of dermatitis herpetiformis" from 2009 that may be in those bookmarks you can't find right now. It gives that 2 year statement too: "GFD alleviates gastrointestinal symptoms much more rapidly than the rash: it takes an average of 2 years of GFD for complete elimination of the cutaneous lesions, which invariably recurs within 12 weeks after the reintroduction of gluten"

My interpretation of this would be that it might take as long as 2 years to go away, but once gone, if it comes back, you have probably accidentally ingested some gluten. This seems to be the case with my son. Of course, that is something that should be discussed with a knowledgeable doctor.



Ok, I'm losing my mind and obviously didn't bookmark it...but I read something (medical) the other day about how dh outbreaks may not be so tied to antibodies. Yes, antibodies (from gluten) are present but they aren't the final determinant in a breakout. There's other involvement in the immune system/skin. Now I'll go nuts looking for it...

Anyway, it was the first GOOD ARTICLE I'd read about how someone, somewhere was admitting the current medical knowledge of dh is abysmal.

My point is that something other (or in addition to) gluten triggers the breakouts. It isn't JUST gluten exposure. Personally, I break out from a virus. Any virus. I'm hitting 2 years gluten-free, and I can tell you my breakouts are only 10% of the hellish rash they were 2 years ago (when they do happen) - but they do happen. Gluten exposure also isn't a dh trigger for me (knock on wood). Now, I haven't had a major glutening, either...but if I do get a virus after a few cc incidents (like my last outbreak a few months ago) I do notice a stronger outbreak.

I think the link was from tinpins posts in this thread....
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!

#22 tinpins

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:08 AM

I've been following this discussion too and just spent a bit of time searching through some of the links I posted on my discussion thread without success.  Obviously something that I want to find out too. 

 

Squirmy ... get better soon  :wub:


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"If you're going through hell, keep going" - Winston Churchill

 

 


#23 pricklypear1971

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:31 AM

I've been following this discussion too and just spent a bit of time searching through some of the links I posted on my discussion thread without success. Obviously something that I want to find out too.

Squirmy ... get better soon :wub:


Oops, your dh thread. It was either this sir OR in autoimmune mom. I'll check there later...
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!

#24 dilettantesteph

 
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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:09 AM

If you can find that good link to DH information, I would love to see it.


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#25 tinpins

 
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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:43 AM

Jyn, 

 

Read my post from this morning!

http://www.celiac.co...urney/?p=874537


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"If you're going through hell, keep going" - Winston Churchill

 

 


#26 pricklypear1971

 
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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:03 AM

If you can find that good link to DH information, I would love to see it.


I looked quite a bit yesterday, I'll keep looking. If it wasn't a direct mention, I was reading another article (via link) on a website that had a scrolling headline...and one article was on dh. I didn't save it because I wasn't on my computer/iPad...and now can't find it. Grrr.

The gist was tcell involvement? It sounded quite a bit like what you read when you read about gluten based neuro issues. They know there's "something" going on, but not what/how exactly.

I've read another article (probably 2 years ago) alluding to other involvement that keeps dh active. Probably along the same lines...but that was prior to all of the tcell stuff coming out, specifically re: neuro.

I wish I knew why some people struggled longer, and with worse breakouts. I am extremely fortunate - going gluten-free and low iodine ( for a period) put mine into remission. I do get breakouts but my antibodies must have fallen quickly, because the severity is so much less (and manageable).
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!




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