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Hi, New Here, And To Gluten-Free Cooking.


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16 replies to this topic

#1 ChiTownZee

 
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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:25 AM

Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself before I start with anything else.  I don't have problems with gluten, or my family, but I own a small dessert shop/bakery in S. Florida and have always received many requests for gluten free.  I've decided to start testing some of our established recipes with different ways of converting them to gluten-free and see what works, at all, or the best, and maybe add some new recipes to our menu.  In researching online, I kept getting a lot of results that led here, so I thought I should register as it seems like a great place to get good information and guidance.  Cooking gluten free seems pretty complicated to me, but I've never worried about it before.  You all seem like pros and full of great knowledge so I hope I can ask questions and confirm ingredients or recipes while I'm doing this.  My focus since I started was having the highest quality I could achieve and to give people "the best they've tasted" of whatever the dessert is, and I want to be able to provide everyone with the best desserts possible, even gluten free.  So, any and all advice is appreciated!

 

Thanks! 

Lisa


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#2 kareng

 
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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

Are you doing gluten-free baked goods because its the " trendy" diet? Or for people with a real medical need?

Those with a real medical need a lot more care in the preparing of the foods. There are many ways to contaminate the " gluten-free" baked goods and make them unsafe for Celiacs. For example, using the same kitchen, equipment, display cases, etc.

If you are just looking for the " trendy dieters", I would hope you would not call your products gluten-free. Maybe " no gluten". with a disclaimer that they are not suitable for a medical need.
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#3 ChiTownZee

 
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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

Are you doing gluten-free baked goods because its the " trendy" diet? Or for people with a real medical need?

Those with a real medical need a lot more care in the preparing of the foods. There are many ways to contaminate the " gluten-free" baked goods and make them unsafe for Celiacs. For example, using the same kitchen, equipment, display cases, etc.

If you are just looking for the " trendy dieters", I would hope you would not call your products gluten-free. Maybe " no gluten". with a disclaimer that they are not suitable for a medical need.

 

I wanted to try to make them because I get a steady flow of request for gluten-free desserts, by both people that say they need it, or for their children, spouse etc.  I definitely don't want to cross-contaminate anything.  I took a food handlers safety manager course and took an exam with the state so I'm familiar with a lot of the risks, but not with the gluten free.  Are separate kitchens usually used to prepare commercial gluten-free foods? My kitchen is commercial, regulated by the state, so everything is washed and rinsed in high temp water and then sanitized after that.   A large percentage of what I make is made to order for parties/events etc., so a lot of never even touches the cases or goes to the front.  But if it did, if everything is always packaged before it goes into a display case, is it still a large threat?  I don't want to put anyone at risk, just provide a little of what a good number of my customers have asked for.  It seems with the cost of the gluten free ingredients that I've looked at, I don't think there would be a big profit margin for me, and  I really wasn't going for trendy, I've just always try to accommodate requests, even if it's not right away, when I can, whether it's something new or a modification.  If I shouldn't/can't do it, than I can understand that, but if I can, I wanted to find out how to do so. Thats why I wanted to come here for information.


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#4 pricklypear1971

 
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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:33 AM

I *believe* there are professional groups to help commercial bakers through the process. I swear there's another thread on here regarding a restaurant, where names are mentioned. Perhaps this will help: http://www.theglutenfreeinstitute.com/

Cross contamination is a huge issue for people with Celiac Disease...and the minute you put a gluten-free item out, you'll get 400 questions.

One solution I've heard from shared gluten-free bakeries is they only bake gluten-free on certain days - days they don't use glutinous flours. Drifting flour is a huge issue. Other solutions include a separate space, dedicated equipment, and sealed packaging to protect the finished product from cc.

It's always encouraging to hear about a professional baker interested in gluten-free. Here are some recipes I've found interesting, and haven't had the patience to try. Give me a minute to find them and I'll post.

http://bobbiesbaking...oissant-recipe/

http://www.tartelett...pastry.html?m=1

Also, if I may suggest, start with naturally gluten-free recipes or recipes that only contain a bit of flour: flourless chocolate cakes, gelatos, sorbets, ice creams, custards, meringue based cookies, nut based cookies. Work into making your first ladyfingers or cookies - sponges and into layered desserts. Cakes with fruit/veg in them translate well: carrot cakes, pies. Buttermilk based cakes are great to translate - the buttermilk helps with rise. I had a fabulous canoli without the pastry - all the insides, fresh fruit, sauce in a glass. Yum.

One thing to keep in mind is that many gluten intolerants have other intolerances - so you always need to be able to list off the major/minor allergies contained in the item: gluten, soy, corn, milk, eggs, etc.

As a gluten-free person, I can say I'm easily pleased - as long as it is SAFE. I'm usually tickled pink to have a dessert option when I eat out. It isn't common.

Another thing worth mentioning, and I know it probably sounds terrible to you, is if you are catering an event and a gluten intolerant person requests accomodatio is to not be afraid to say you can go buy some premade cookies or bread, etc. and put something together (using safe kitchen practices). It may sound terrible to you, but our #1 concern is always safety. And we know the name brands of commercially prepared baked goods and will feel safe and relieved and grateful that you can provide us with something other than a snack bar out of our purses. FYI, BJ's Restaurant uses Pamela's brownie mix for their gluten-free brownie Pazookie dessert. I can tell you by tasting it!

Thank you for considering your gluten-free customers!
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Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
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#5 bbuster

 
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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:57 AM

I don't have Celiac but my son does.  When we get together for BBQs, etc with friends I always bring the desserts and they are all gluten-free.

 

Crowd favorites of both the kids and adults that are pretty easy to make:

 

chocolate chip cookies

coconut almond flaxseed cookies

brownies

french silk pie

pecan bars

raspberry pecan bars

scones (the ones I make are cranberry-white chocolate with orange zest)

carrot cake cupcakes

chocolate cupcakes

 

It's taken me some trial and error to get these "just right" but none are particularly difficult to make.

When making cupcakes it's hard to keep them from falling, but much easier if you make mini-sized ones.


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Mom of Garrett - Mizzou freshman; diagnosed Jan 2005

#6 ChiTownZee

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:02 AM

Thank you for the information and links!  

I have a very small business and it's usually just me in the kitchen, so I think that would help in minimizing contamination risk.  And doing something like not cooking anything with gluten when baking non-gluten wouldn't be a big problem for me.  

I was actually have a flour-less chocolate cake I thought to try with different icings or toppings.  It seems most basic icings are naturally gluten free, correct?  Powdered sugar, butter, maybe shortening, vanilla extract.  I also have a strawberry shortbread recipe that is very close to gluten free I believe, it uses a shortbread cookie instead of cake, which only has a small amount of flour in it (compared to the amount of cornstarch, which is gluten free I read) and is extremely light so I thought it might  switch to a gluten free flour with less effects than say a cake.  Not sure.  Fresh whipped cream is also gluten free?

If something is labeled "No Gluten" is this a common thing for someone that eats gluten free, but with zero tolerance, as opposed to being sensitive, knows might have a higher risk of contamination than "Gluten Free"?   Or maybe just longer lasting pre-packaged cookies or something to be available.  I know a woman who said she hates to bring her daughter into a place and then there's nothing there that she can buy and give to her daughter.

I think I'll continue to do research, maybe test some recipes, but label them "No Gluten" until when or if I feel I've got everything completely on lock.

Another question - When I've been asked about providing gluten free recipes, I've never asked anything about their needs specific to the gluten free.  I always felt it was asking a stranger (even if they're regular customers) about their medical information, and that always seemed inappropriate.  This is why I can't tell you why they want gluten free (Celiac, allergies, etc)  From your point of view, is it OK to ask anything if they bring it up, in order to gain information to use in figuring out what I may need to do or not do in providing gluten free desserts?  I don't want to offend anyone.

 

Thanks again.

Lisa


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#7 pricklypear1971

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:43 AM

You need to do some reading of materials meant for businesses selling "gluten free" foods.

No gluten ingredients - means just that. No gluten ingredients. YOU must call your suppliers and ask if the ingredients contain gluten, and use dedicated ingredients (no double dipping into shortening that you used while baking gluten). You must use good kitchen practices - clean equipment between rounds of baking gluten and gluten-free. Package the food to prevent cc.

Gluten Free - generally implies you have taken additional steps like not using gluten at the same time as making gluten-free food, dedicated separate equipment, you've screened ingredients to be gluten-free, packaged to prevent cc. Some people may expect you test your end product for gluten and it be under 20 ppm.

Based on your response above, I can tell you I would NOT eat food you prepared in your facility because you lack basic knowledge of how to prepare it safely for a gluten intolerant person.

There are no shortcuts to this. You must educate yourself with professional materials. Please do not advertise your food as any more than "no gluten ingredients" - and right now you can't do that because you don't know what your ingredients contain. On top of that, you need to know how to keep those ingredients free of gluten in your facility.

Be warned - if you turn out contaminated product word will get out. Gluten intolerants talk to each other and rate restaurants. Contaminating a Celiac or NCGS is not something that should be taken lightly. New laws are in the works, I advise you to stay informed. I advise doing this right, or don't do it at all.

Educate yourself, then offer gluten-free.
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
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DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!

#8 ChiTownZee

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:13 AM

You need to do some reading of materials meant for businesses selling "gluten free" foods.

No gluten ingredients - means just that. No gluten ingredients. YOU must call your suppliers and ask if the ingredients contain gluten, and use dedicated ingredients (no double dipping into shortening that you used while baking gluten). You must use good kitchen practices - clean equipment between rounds of baking gluten and gluten-free. Package the food to prevent cc.

Gluten Free - generally implies you have taken additional steps like not using gluten at the same time as making gluten-free food, dedicated separate equipment, you've screened ingredients to be gluten-free, packaged to prevent cc. Some people may expect you test your end product for gluten and it be under 20 ppm.

Based on your response above, I can tell you I would NOT eat food you prepared in your facility because you lack basic knowledge of how to prepare it safely for a gluten intolerant person.

There are no shortcuts to this. You must educate yourself with professional materials. Please do not advertise your food as any more than "no gluten ingredients" - and right now you can't do that because you don't know what your ingredients contain. On top of that, you need to know how to keep those ingredients free of gluten in your facility.

Be warned - if you turn out contaminated product word will get out. Gluten intolerants talk to each other and rate restaurants. Contaminating a Celiac or NCGS is not something that should be taken lightly. New laws are in the works, I advise you to stay informed. I advise doing this right, or don't do it at all.

Educate yourself, then offer gluten-free.

I wouldn't expect you or anyone to eat anything I serve that was gluten free or no gluten right now, but I also wouldn't serve anything right now anyway.  Like I said, I'm completely new to gluten free and am just starting to research, so I am aware that I have plenty to learn.  I just starting looking into it and wanted to start seeing if I could make recipes that I approved of in taste (yes, I know that's not the most important factor here, but it is my work and important to me) and that would be safe and enjoyable for someone that needs gluten free.  I've never just made something new and thrown it in a display case the same day, and I wouldn't do that here, either.  I'm not trying to pull one over on the public, and hadn't even considered advertising at this point.  I just wanted to see about providing desserts to a group of the public that have made requests to me.  

Right now I have an A rated commercial kitchen with the state and know quite a bit about cross contamination and kitchen safety practices.  Gluten free, no, but that's why I'm researching.  

I kind of thought I was doing it right, by starting with people that seemed to know about it the best, from the beginning.

Again, I'm not offering anything gluten free or no gluten right now.  


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#9 Adalaide

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

I do know a people who eat gluten free who will eat things from shared bakeries. None of those people I know eat gluten free for medical reasons. Having worked in more than one pizza place, I know exactly what happens when flour is used in a place every day. It gets in the air and slowly but surely settles. Everywhere. The same thing is certainly happening in a bakery. I simply can not imagine that it would be even remotely safe to bake gluten free foods in a shared bakery unless you have a separate room or do it only on a day you don't bake other things.

 

I do have to second the idea of taking a course. This will give you all the of background you need. There are just so many things that no one thinks of. Things like (as mentioned) contacting every supplier to find out if the products you are getting can be verified as gluten free. You'll need to have this information because you will be asked. A fairly significant number of people also have additional intolerances so they'll be constantly asking what is in everything. The most common ingredient I can think of that you'll want to avoid is soy, which will mean absolutely no shortening. (I have visited several gluten free bakeries in my area, none use soy in anything, probably for this very reason.)

 

You may be thinking this all sounds very overwhelming and beyond what you could make up in a profit margin, as you already said it would be low. Keep in mind that you may be charging something like $1.50 now for cupcakes but we all know that we can expect to pay more for a single cupcake. I usually pay $2.50-$3.00 for a single cupcake, and I suppose that can change drastically depending on the area. Things are relatively cheap here, I don't know what prices are like there. And if it is produced in a way that is safe, and it is delicious, we absolutely will come back for more. I have never cringed at the price of a cupcake.


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#10 bbuster

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:54 AM

I just want to say that I applaud that you are trying.  I am always thrilled to have another choice (although we are far away in the Midwest).

 

While a lot of the comments here seem negative, I think it just underscores the importance of getting it right.  As you will learn as you research, it will probably be necessary to have separate pans, etc. for gluten-free stuff, or at least disposables such as parchment paper (which I use all the time because gluten-free batters are so sticky).  I personally do not use regular flour whatsoever, so as mentioned multiple times, flour in the air and thus settling on surfaces will have to be addressed.

 

Good luck to you!!


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Bev

Mom of Garrett - Mizzou freshman; diagnosed Jan 2005

#11 pricklypear1971

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

 

 

  It seems most basic icings are naturally gluten free, correct?

 

 Fresh whipped cream is also gluten free?

 

 

Rule #1: You can not make assumptions about anything.

 

 

 

I think I'll continue to do research, maybe test some recipes, but label them "No Gluten" until when or if I feel I've got everything completely on lock.

 

Rule #2: We are not your guinea pigs.

 

You do realize what you said was, essentially, "I'm going to make possibly gluten contaminated food and serve it to gluten intolerants and when they get sick and tell me there was something wrong, I'll try to improve my contamination practices." Right??

 

Because here's the rub....without testing your end product (which most small businesses do not have the budget to do), you are relying on gluten intolerant human beings testing your product and giving you feedback....because neither you or I can tell by looking at or tasting a product if it has been contaminated.

 

You are probably mistaken if you think a gluten intolerant is going to come back for more sickness and pain, just to help you get your product right...unless you're paying them, they're personal friends (who get the option of punching you every time they get sick), or you've got a Celiac locked in the basement.

 

People who eat gluten-free for other reasons - they think it's healthier, etc.....they can't tell you if it's contaminated because they won't react.

 

I know this is hard to grasp (believe me, I never thought about this til it happened to me)...but instead of taking a pill/medication, our medicine is not to do something:  don't eat gluten. Would you ask a diabetic to stop taking insulin or take more insulin to eat your product? Same difference - you're asking someone to probably go off their meds and get sick to be your guinea pig. Even worse, you could label contaminated product gluten free and make an unwilling person sick.

 

***

 

I understand you want feedback from the gluten intolerant community about how to prepare gluten-free food. And I applaud you for asking; however, the truth is that unless we're experienced in operating a gluten free/shared food production facility we don't know. We can tell you what we are told are standard industry practices, and about some of the horrific versions of "gluten free" food we've run into (really, you don't want to know)...but we can't tell you how to do it. We can't tell you if your ingredients are gluten-free because we don't know the brands you use. 

 

We can tell you what we do in our own kitchens or questions we ask at restaurants or when we call to check the gluten-free status of a product. But we each have our own version of what to ask...because we each react differently and to different things. We can tell you what we'd like to find at a bakery (wow, long list). We can tell you that you should seek professional training for yourself and your business, because this is a big deal - providing truly gluten-free food to gluten intolerants (not taking away our medicine).

 

We can also tell you that we do talk....I suggest googling your local area (Chicago?), for the local Celiac groups. There are probably restaurant/bakery reviews on the site. Don't be the place that everyone gets glutened at. Many times, there's no coming back from a bad reputation.

 

And finally, we all know there's risk of contamination every time we pick up a processed item or eat out. But the truth is some manufacturers/restaurants are very good at gluten-free and others are abysmal. We generally don't ask why....sometimes we don't even tell you we got sick - we just don't go back. But we do tell other gluten intolerants. The restaurants that do gluten-free well, consistently, have very specific practices and training in place.

 

Examples of those who get it right: BJ's Brewery, PF Chang's, Pei Wei, Chipotle, a local restaurant named Feast, another local Tucson Tamale Company.

 

Examples of places I've been glutened: Sauce (same owner as Pei Wei, but there's flour everywhere....and it just doesn't work). A local bar/restaurant in a small town where "the gluten expert" has Diabetes (but isn't gluten intolerant). A local sushi joint that does gluten-free but is a little irritated by people who order gluten-free and then eat fake crab (gluten): I had to make it crystal clear to my waiter that I have Celiac Disease and the chefs need to take certain precautions, which they did.

 

So, is it a bad idea to come here and ask? No. But we simply don't have the types of answers you need. We can only ask you to educate yourself through an organization that does.

 

I am still grateful you're considering baking gluten-free, and hope you continue.


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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!

#12 bartfull

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

"You do realize what you said was, essentially, "I'm going to make possibly gluten contaminated food and serve it to gluten intolerants and when they get sick and tell me there was something wrong, I'll try to improve my contamination practices." Right??"

 

Prickly, I didn't see anything like that. She said SHE was going to try them for taste, and she came here to learn how to make things truly gluten-free. We have a chance to teach someone to make some baked goods that we can eat.

 

ChiTown, I too applaud what you are doing and I hope you are successful. If you read the Newbie 101 thread here you will learn about things that can cross-contaminate us. And then if you read the breakfast/lunch/dinner threads you will get some recipe ideas. As a matter of fact, spend some time here and read lots of different threads. There are several that you might find helpful. :)


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#13 Adalaide

 
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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

And finally, we all know there's risk of contamination every time we pick up a processed item or eat out. But the truth is some manufacturers/restaurants are very good at gluten-free and others are abysmal. We generally don't ask why....sometimes we don't even tell you we got sick - we just don't go back. But we do tell other gluten intolerants. The restaurants that do gluten-free well, consistently, have very specific practices and training in place.

 

So, is it a bad idea to come here and ask? No. But we simply don't have the types of answers you need. We can only ask you to educate yourself through an organization that does.

 

I am still grateful you're considering baking gluten-free, and hope you continue.

 

I'm going to pick out a few things here because they are of special importance. First is that yes, we are aware of the risks we take and I think we fall into a few different groups of people when we get glutened. First is the group who gets sick, never goes back, and just shrugs it off as someone who is incompetent. Second, there are people who get sick and contact someone about it. Generally they want someone to know what happened, and to find out if this was a one off or a gross oversight and they should never have eaten there. Another group is the vocal group. They'll contact the company sure, they'll also tell every celiac they know about it at their next support group meeting. They'll call the company out here, on social media, to a corporate office if there is one. They won't shut up until they have told everyone they can that this company, who promised them a gluten free product, gave them nothing of the sort through gross negligence of the worst kind.

 

This brings us to the second thing that I picked out from what prickly said. Using an organization that is set up to education you in the way that is proper. This is the best defense you have against accidentally making someone sick and causing harm to your own companies reputation. I'm sure you've heard the whole thing about how people who have a bad experience with a business are far more likely to talk about it, and to far more people than those who have a good experience. (Although to be fair, most of us who have amazing cupcakes can't shut up about it!)

 

Lastly, I do agree that of course we are as a generally rule most grateful to business who want to accommodate us. We are so very grateful because we understand it is not a light undertaking and it involves a significant amount of education and resources to begin. It of course has the potential to have great benefits as well, for both you and the community. I do encourage you to seek the training you need to pursue this.


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"You don't look sick or anything"

"Well you don't look stupid, looks can be deceiving."

 

Celiac DX Dec 2012

CRPS DX March 2014


#14 lpellegr

 
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Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:30 AM

The Gluten Intolerance Group educates restaurant owners (or anyone who serves food to the public) about how to do gluten-free.  Try them.  http://www.gluten.net


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Lee

I never liked bread anyway.....

#15 ChiTownZee

 
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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:22 PM

Thank you everyone.  I wasn't aware there were classes just for this.  I've taken two separate food safety courses before, so I think I'll check to see what those places offer regarding gluten and work that into the future if I choose to go ahead and offer anything without gluten.

 

I appreciate all the input.

 

Lisa


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