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Leaky Gut And Joint Popping/pain


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#1 spirit_walk

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:19 PM

Hello,

 

I've posted in the past on this board, but it's been a few months.

 

I've been on a year and a half journey that all started with severe joint pain. I thought I had RA, but I've seen numerous doctors (including the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota), and four rheumatologists have ruled out arthritis of any kind. I'm still not sure that I'm not suffering from some kind of arthritic condition, but with a very healthy diet (zero processed foods, no eggs, gluten, dairy, tomatoes, and elimination of all sweeteners except fruit spreads and honey) I have progressed to the point where my joints aren't hurting like they did when this all started. Before this all started I ate terribly but was never overweight. On a normal day, I'd get Starbuck in the morning (Caramel Frap), breakfast tacos, and fast food for lunch and dinner were common for me. I drank mostly cokes and sweet tea and never drank water. And I snacked on candy and chocolate daily. I was basically the posterboy for a poor diet and was likely on my way to being a diabetic. Yet I only weighed about 155 pounds. However, a little over a year ago my shoulders and wrists began popping. The popping was sporadic in the beginning, but now I have popping all the time in my shoulders and wrists. I also went through a phase where my jaw was popping, but that isn't happening as much lately. What is troublesome though is that my knees and ankles are beginning to pop. I fear that if the popping that I experience in my shoulders and wrists moves to my lower limbs that I will have some severe mobility issues down the road. I'm a 39 year-old male who was in great shape 3 years ago. When the joint pain began, it was so extreme that turning door handles or picking up a pot off the stove was painful. Washing dishes was painful. Working a mouse was painful. My diet seems to have corrected the joint pain issues (although if I eat outside my strict diet, they come back). I had a food allergy blood test a little over a year ago and have removed over 30 foods in question from the blood tests. I have been drinking water and eating strict for over a year. I went gluten-free before I knew much about Celiac, and I'd been gluten-free for too long to get an accurate test on my upper endoscopy. Mayo also did a genetic test for Celiac, and all signs point to me being non-Celiac. My villi looked good from the biopsies my gastroenterologist took. The only thing I have gotten from all the medical doctors that I've seen is that the inside of my stomach is inflamed. All bloodwork (numerous inflammation markers, uric acid, blood sugar, etc), stool tests, joint scans, bone scans, CT scans, etc have come back normal. It's been a long, frustrating road, but I'm thankful to be alive with a wife and 3 year old daughter who I love. My goal is to get my health back. I've accepted the idea that I probably won't be able to eat pizza, hamburgers, tomatoes, salsa, and many other foods I love. I just want to get this POPPING under control.

 

I've been through numerous doctors including endocrinologists, rheumatologists, gastroenterologists, orthopedic surgeons, chiropractors, and other holistic types. My latest doctor believes I have a leaky gut issues. The nutritionist who did my food allergy test over a year ago (last September) told me the same. I've suffered through many rough days at work and not taking Advil or pain relievers in an attempt to heal my "gut." I've refrained from Pepto-Bismal and Kaopectate when I've had occasional stomach pain over the last year. In short, I have put water and healthy food into my body for over a year (drastic change from terrible food to healthy as possible). The joint pain is manageable. The popping in my shoulders, wrists, knees, and ankles seems to be progressively getting worse. I might add that I've had numerous other issues since this started including numbness in two of my toes, fiberglass-like sensations on my knees where my pants rub at work, cold hands, and intestinal pain when I eat too much salad. I've lost almost 30 pounds since I started my diet. I weight about 156 pounds before this all started. I now weigh 130. 

 

Doctors have pretty much told me there's nothing they can do for me. Mayo told me "the stomach is a mystery we still haven't come close to figuring out." They told me they could give me a new heart and even do wonders on the brain, but the stomach is a real challenge. So now I'm in debt, and I'm going to more holistic types b/c I'm not giving up. 

 

I really believe I have a condition/disease much like Celiac. Except for me, when I ingest food I don't have stomach issues. I have joint issues and most significant is the popping. I have food intolerances like someone who has Celiac but went undiagnosed for a long time. And even after a year of water and organic/healthy food, I still have inflammation in my stomach. Why? I don't know.

 

But, my real question for the board is: Does anyone else have issues with JOINT POPPING or know of others who do? The popping is a mystery no doctor has been able to explain. It's like I'm the only person they've ever seen with popping in my joints. Maybe I am. But noone in my family has had issues like this, and I ate any and everything I could get my hands on until I was 38 years old. Now, so many things create a response of popping or joint pain. And with no answers, I'm in the dark here.

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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#2 1desperateladysaved

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 05:08 AM

I get popping when I have inflammation problems.  I believe my inflammation comes from foods I don't tolerate.  I have popping problems seldom, but had my family giggling at me trying to do squats and hearing the pops!  Have you tried functional Medicine; a doctor we used is osteopathic and functional medicine and he helped my son.  I like the functional medicine because they try to get to the root of the problem and they can have a large scope of knowledge. 

 

I also dealt with leaky gut.  I believe that an IgG product helped this to heal.  You already eliminated things you had antibodies too and that was a second thing I did.  A four day rotational diet has helped me to purge out foods that are causing me trouble.  It is easier to tell what is causing a problem when foods are rotated.

 

I am praying for you and your family that you will be delivered from this.

 

 

 

D


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#3 spirit_walk

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:10 AM

Thanks for the prayers. The last few days have been rough. The popping in my knees and ankles is as bad as ever, and I don't really feel like doing anything. Can you expound on "functional medicine" and what IgG product are you referring to? Right now I have started taking RepairVite and Aloe Vera water recommended by a kinesiologist I am seeing. I've been on these supplements for about 4 days now.


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#4 1desperateladysaved

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:26 AM

My functional medicine physicians try to find out why I am having trouble.  Instead of giving me some pill to make my blood pressure low, they try to analyze what is causing it to be high.  They use nutritional supplements for what they feel is the root problem  I have a doctor formerly associated with Mayo Clinic that has practiced 25 years.  Their practice "Between the Bridges."  is located in Mankato, Minnesota. 

I first used the Osteopathic, Functional Medicine doctor there to help my son with damaged villi from parasites.  My son had been adopted from Ethiopia and had been expected to grow rapidly, but his growth stopped.  The doctor had to treat the parasites infestation with antibiotics and prescribed digestive enzymes.  After that, my son began to grow rapidly and the doctor said we didn't need to come back.  That is one thing I like about this doctor, when he is done, he sends you on your way!  He also sells supplements but told me that I can get others for cheaper that will do as well!.

 

I decided to use Between the Bridges for my celiac care when a female functional medicine nurse took up practice there.  She went over my papers with the doctor.  They interpreted some tests which I had done elsewhere.  They advised me to take digestive enzymes and adrenal support to help as I heal.  They asked me to continue on the supplements that I had been taking.  My nutrient levels came up while following their advise..  I am still having difficulties with reacting to various products, so I am continuing to work with them.

 

I took IgG at the advise of Dr. Peter Osborne.  He is a chiropractor that has celiac disease himself.  He is also trained in Functional Medicine.   He said that IgG would help the small intestine to heal.   I noticed my bloating subsiding somewhat while on the product. I feel it may also be a part of why my nutrient levels increased.   I took this product just before going to Between the Bridges.  They thought it fine that I finished the 3 bottles as Dr. Osborne recommended for me.

 

I would be glad to answer any other questions about my experiences with functional medicine, or my experience of overcoming 30+ years of celiac symptoms.

 

 

D


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#5 spirit_walk

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:43 AM

When you say IgG, are you referring to something like this?

 

https://www.xymogen....ail.aspx?pid=84


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#6 1desperateladysaved

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 11:02 AM

Yes. 


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#7 spirit_walk

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 04:33 PM

Thanks.

 

Really don't understand why this popping condition is so rare. Very frightening.


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#8 1desperateladysaved

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 05:59 PM

Is it a joint thing?  I am not sure why others with popping aren't posting.  I think I have heard it before.  Do you have arthritis?


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#9 spirit_walk

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:08 PM

I've been told by four rheumatologists that I don't have arthritis. But, I have severe joint pain if I eat certain foods. Now that I've managed to reduce the joint pain through diet, this popping is taking over. It's like everything is getting loose. There is an autoimmune response going on that is causing this. I'm worried it's degenerative. My shoulders and wrists have been popping for over a year now. It never goes away. Now it's starting to happen in my knees and ankles. Yet, every blood test I've taken shows no inflammation.


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#10 foam

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:40 AM

I've often had popping jaw, clicking neck when I talk and knees in the past. I did at times have knees so sore than I struggled to walk but that all stopped ages ago. I haven't eaten gluten in 4 or 5 years and I guess it stopped about then. By the way I started getting regular B12 injections about then too. I'd recommend you start having the injections especailly with your restricted diet and low weight. Cold hands and tingling is CLASSIC B12 deficiency. Id also want to know why your stomach in inflamed, yes sure maybe your small intenstine could still be but your stomach shouldn't be after a year on a good diet. You want to have a test for helicobacter while you are there.

 

If there's anything to say about the popping itself (if it doesn't hurt I think it's zero problem). I've been told many times by Europeans when I was younger after they have heard my knees pop that I must be very healthy :! apparently in Europe the old tale is, if your joints pop they are in good condition.


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#11 spirit_walk

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:32 PM

foam, thank you for this information. How did you go about learning of your B12 deficiency? My gastroenterologist (who is apparently the best GI doctor in Austin) is the one who discovered the redness in my stomach when he did my upper endoscopy. He said is was gastritis and didn't really know what could be done about it. He also said my villi looked good although I had been gluten-free for several months so the biopsies couldn't rule out Celiac. Reading your post gives me hope that at some point my diet will correct this popping issue. I've been told to think of it more as a marathon than a sprint. I don't know if damage is being done with the popping, but it does hurt when it pops over time. My knees ache. It feels as if my wrists are trying to lock up at times and they pop consistently throughout the day. Certain foods make it worse. Stress seems to trigger it as well. It's been happening for a year now in my wrists and shoulders, and I wonder if it will now ever go away. Just hope it doesn't continue to get worse in the ankles and knees. 

 

As for the B12 injections, I'm assuming you did this b/c of an inability to absorb nutrients through diet?

 

I think I'm having absorption issues, and I think it's the reason why I can't gain weight no matter how much I eat.


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#12 Tessie's mommy

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:16 AM

Hi,

 

I was diagnosed with Celiac 2 weeks ago. I have severe joint pain with popping in almost every joint. I've had it for 3 years. My doc (integrative) thinks this is related to the celiac and will get better over time. She did caution me that there is gluten in the most unsuspecting places, like toothpaste. She also warned me that if I'm sharing a kitchen with someone who isn't gluten free, I may be exposed to cross contamination. Maybe your doing everything right in your food choices but gluten is getting in somewhere else. The popping is quite painful. I'm sorry you have it too.


Edited by Tessie's mommy, 04 December 2013 - 02:20 PM.

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#13 spirit_walk

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 04:49 PM

Hi,

 

I was diagnosed with Celiac 2 weeks ago. I have severe joint pain with popping in almost every joint. I've had it for 3 years. My doc (integrative) thinks this is related to the celiac and will get better over time. She did caution me that there is gluten in the most unsuspecting places, like toothpaste. She also warned me that if I'm sharing a kitchen with someone who isn't gluten free, I may be exposed to cross contamination. Maybe your doing everything right in your food choices but gluten is getting in somewhere else. The popping is quite painful. I'm sorry you have it too.

 

I really wonder if I'm undiagnosed Celiac. I've been off gluten for over a year now, and when I had my upper endoscopy done, I'd been off for about 7 months. My villi looked great according to my GI doctor who performed the biopsies. Mayo also said my genetic blood test they did came back absent for Celiac genes/pairs (can't remember). He did say that the genetic test wasn't conclusive to rule out Celiac, only that it made me less likely to have it. Could I have Celiac's Disease and not have GI issues? I've been very thin my entire life, and I used to get upset stomach's all the time as a kid. Those symptoms went away after my teenage years, but I've always felt bloated and used to get ulcers in the mouth often. Since I cut out gluten (and a host of other foods), I have almost no seasonal allergy symptoms or ulcers in the mouth anymore. Thoughts?

 

Also when did your popping start, and did you have joint pain that preceded it? Very curious about your condition, b/c noone I know or none of the doctors can explain the popping.


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#14 Tessie's mommy

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:01 PM

I started having pain in my joints about 4 years ago, a year before the popping started and a year before I had any significant GI issues. (I also had issues throughout different periods of life when I did have stomach problems, but it had been years since I had any that would be very concerning. I have always felt bloated as well.) It wasn't bad joint pain, but enough to hinder my yoga. So I went to a Rheum who ran lots of tests and didn't find anything. He said I was just getting older and needed more time to recoup after work-outs and long hikes. A year later I woke up one morning with severe debilitating joint pain. It happened that fast, from annoying pain to not being able to get out of bed without help, overnight. The popping started at that time. In the three years that followed I saw numerous doctors who could not explain my pain. I was diagnosed with RA, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, Chronic Pain Syndrome, and the "worst case of bursitis". All of these diagnoses were overturned by the next doctor. The stomach problems didn't start until about 2 years ago. Out of desperation, I tried anything anyone suggested. Someone suggested I stop eating gluten, so I did and I got 20% better. Someone else suggested I stop eating nightshades. This made me another 10% better. I saw one gastro doc who did an upper endoscopy to look for celiac and it came back normal as well as the blood test. She didn't ask me if I was eating gluten and I didn't know the test results would be hindered by the fact that I wasn't. (If you were off of gluten for 7 months, then your test could be inaccurate as well.) About 6 months ago I read an article in the New Yorker about a child who had intestinal permeability. I related to everything in the article so I started searching for a doctor who understood the issue. I found my current doctor in September who immediately realized that I wasn't eating wheat at the time of my biopsy and that the result could be wrong. She has run numerous tests. The most significant for her diagnosis of celiac were a Lactoferrin test and the genetic test for celiac. I wanted to eat wheat and have the biopsy again, but thankfully she stopped me. The Lactoferrin test showed inflammation that could only be caused by a GI inflammatory process. She said this meant Crohn's or IBD or Celiac. In the genetic test I only had one positive HLA rather than two. But with the two things together, and my response to being off of gluten (sort of) I was diagnosed with Celiac.  I was avoiding gluten like I had an intolerance rather than celiac, since I had the previous negative biopsy. For example, if I went to Chipotle, I would order the things without wheat, but the spoon would touch a tortilla from the person before me before touching my food, contaminating my food with gluten. So I've just been eating completely gluten free for 2 weeks and so far I haven't had any improvement. She also put me on lots of supplements to help heal my digestive system. She thinks I'll see some pain relief in 3 to 9 months, but said it could take longer. In the meantime, I'm not allowed to eat gluten, dairy, soy, corn, nightshades, eggs, peanuts, and oats. She's considering limiting my diet more in the future, depending on how I respond.

 

I would really consider thinking of myself as having celiac disease if I were you. It can't hurt to do the diet, but it is difficult. I've had to buy new things for the kitchen, like blenders, colanders, and cooking utensils because they may be contaminated with gluten. Thankfully my husband decided to be gluten free with me, so the threat of cross contamination is eliminated. Here's a list I found recently of symptoms of Celiac on the University of Chicago Celiac Disease Center website. www.cureceliacdisease.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/CDCFactSheets10_SymptomList.pdf I think this disease can have really varied symptoms in different people and I've seen others post here that have no GI symptoms. I used to have ulcers in my mouth all the time as well, until I ate gluten intolerant. They completely went away after that. You could look for a doc who understands intestinal permeability and then go from there. I really tried to do it on my own, but was missing key steps. I read studies, and watched Youtube lectures by Dr. Alessio Fasano from the University of Maryland School of Medicine. He discovered the protein, Zonulin, that modulates the permeability of the intestinal tract. You could research a little more about intestinal permeability (leaky gut) to see if any of your symptoms are included. I'm happy to answer anything else that I've gone through if it helps.


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#15 Juliebove

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:35 AM

Daughter and I both have some popping joints.  For me it's mostly the knees and the neck.  I did have whiplash many years ago and have had trouble with my neck ever since.  Have had knee trouble from age 12.  Knees will subloxate or pop in and out.  Very painful when that happens.  Have had far less trouble since I began wearing compression hose. 

 

Daughter does have trigger finger in her thumbs.  Has much more trouble with it during the school year when she is writing a lot.  This year a lot more is done on the computer so less trouble.  But pretty much every one of her joints pop.

 

I did read in some book years ago that eating celery can help with popping joints.  It's the natural sodium in it that is supposed to help.


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