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Feeling Good On Gluten?


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14 replies to this topic

#1 dania

 
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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:06 PM

Hi all, I have not been diagnosed with celiac disease, I'm just in the process of pursuing further testing. So right now I have gluten at breakfast and in the evening. However, on the days that I have extra gluten in addition to that - for example, having a fair amount at dinner as well - I notice that in the evening I feel really good and really calm. Is it normal to feel good from something you may be intolerant to? And on those times, I also feel very satisfied, when normally I'm almost ravenously hungry all the time. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Seems to be opposite of what I would expect... :s


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#2 kareng

 
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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:32 PM

Why are you being tested for Celiac? It sounds like you do very well with gluten.
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#3 NatureChick

 
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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:53 PM

Gluten is addictive so you could be experiencing the feel good from that. It is an opiod peptide that fits into the same receptors in the brain as heroin, which is why, celiac or not, going gluten free has withdrawal symptoms.


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#4 dania

 
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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:01 PM

kareng - I'm being tested because I have symptoms such as fatigue, deficiencies such as iron and vitamin d that are dropping despite supplementation, bloating, high thyroid antibodies, sudden problems with dental enamel despite excellent oral hygiene (and I'm only 22 years old), and so on.

NatureChick - that's interesting about it being an opiate peptide. The calm feeling I seem to get almost seems unnatural, almost like I've taken a drug or something. That's why I asked about it. I also know some people can kind of get a high from foods they are intolerant to and then they crave more...?
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#5 LauraTX

 
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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:06 PM

Welcome, Dania

 

When I was diagnosed with celiac disease they found it by accident when looking at my gallbladder problems.  I currently am what they call a silent Celiac who does not get definite symptoms when gluten is ingested.  I did, however, have unexplicable mild anemia which my doctor at the time thought was from menstruation, but it resolved with a gluten-free diet.  It was early into the disease progression, so I didn't have a lot of healing to do.  But before I was diagnosed, I was a carb addict... I loved bread, pasta, etc.  I had serious withdrawals when I went gluten-free, but since then I feel better overall.  Hopefully if your tests do come back positive for Celiac, you are just not very badly damaged yet.  But the big word there is "yet".  Let us know how it turns out!


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#6 kaayrah

 
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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:25 PM

I was diagnosed in May right before my 24th bday and the withdrawal has been brutal for me. . The constant hungry feeling is the worst. But being gluten free as best as I can (I have had small cc incidents from not being careful and persistent while dining out) it gets way better. I had the same feeling of being calm and just content for a while until I finally had worse fatigue and bloating and went to get tested. it does get easier to handle though eating the right foods. I slowly cut myself off gluten rather than cutting it out cold Turkey. Which I know probably not the best plan but it helped me to start get a handle on a major lifestyle change. Granted I am still in denial and struggle daily with it. I don't know if anyone else has struggled with mood swings initially when diagnosed and going gluten free but that seems to be the worst part of the gluten withdrawal for me.
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#7 IrishHeart

 
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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:21 AM

RE: Gluten is addictive and acts as an "opiod"? 

 

Celiac medical experts give a nod to anecdotal reports of gluten withdrawal but point out there’s no scientific data or research that substantiates the condition.

Nothing in the medical literature supports a true gluten-withdrawal syndrome, says Dr. Guandalini. (director of the U, of Chicago Celiac research center)
“It’s hard to account for it.” 

Still, parents and patients who have experienced or witnessed gluten withdrawal contend that it is very real. So does Charles Parker, D.O., a psychiatrist who has treated numerous patients with food intolerances. 

“If you’re looking for withdrawal symptoms in newly diagnosed celiac or gluten-sensitive patients, you’re likely to find them,” Parker says. 

Symptoms can be highly diverse, he explains, ranging from neurologic (like Nevergall’s) to gastrointestinal (such as nausea, diarrhea, cramping or even extreme hunger), to psychiatric with mood disturbances, irritability, anxiety, depression or sleeplessness.

Parker suggests that gluten withdrawal may be related to an underlying addiction to gluten. He contends that some of his celiac and gluten-sensitive patients have been unknowingly addicted to gluten for years, craving the very foods that make them sick.

One theory is that digestive by-products of gluten–peptides (proteins) called gliadorphins–enter the blood stream more easily in people with leaky gut syndrome, a condition thought to contribute to celiac disease and certain other autoimmune conditions. When these peptides bind with opioid receptors in the brain, they can mimic the effects of opiate drugs like heroine and morphine. Abruptly eliminating gluten cuts off stimulation of these receptors and may trigger withdrawal symptoms, explains Parker. 

Support for the theory that peptides from certain foods exhibit powerful opioid effects gained ground in the late 1970s. Researchers at the National Institute of Mental Health demonstrated the conversion of gluten into peptides with potential central nervous system (brain and/or spinal cord) activity in 1978. However, the research was preliminary and conducted on laboratory mice, not humans.

To date, subsequent data confirming an opioid effect in humans has not been published.

 

http://www.livingwit...ten-2024-1.html

 

I recently heard Dr. Fasano speak about this and frankly. while he respects the wheat belly author as a colleague, he can find no evidence to

support this assertion that is acts like an opioid either.

 

This writer, a scientist debunks the theories one by one. 

 

http://thecuriouscoc...ive-like-heroin

 

as do others who see that his assertions are just that...

 

http://noglutennopro...lly-busted.html

 

I can find others in a few minutes, if you are interested in reading them. 

To answer your question, Dania no, I don't get a high from foods I am intolerant of--I get sick, have diarrhea for a few days, then i get joint and muscle pain, headaches, racing heart, insomnia

and my hair falls out. ( just to name a few symptoms)

 

It is possible to have thyroid issues and vitamin deficiencies and not have celiac. 

 

Bottom line: get tested and see what's going on. 

 

Best wishes!


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"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else" Booker T. Washington

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"Do or do not. There is no try. "-  Yoda.

"LTES"  Gem 2014

 

Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; Finally Diagnosed with Celiac  11/01/10.  Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. bliss-smiley-emoticon.gif


#8 Gemini

 
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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:01 AM

kareng - I'm being tested because I have symptoms such as fatigue, deficiencies such as iron and vitamin d that are dropping despite supplementation, bloating, high thyroid antibodies, sudden problems with dental enamel despite excellent oral hygiene (and I'm only 22 years old), and so on.
NatureChick - that's interesting about it being an opiate peptide. The calm feeling I seem to get almost seems unnatural, almost like I've taken a drug or something. That's why I asked about it. I also know some people can kind of get a high from foods they are intolerant to and then they crave more...?


The gluten opioid thing is just not true and IrishHeart provided enough links for your reading pleasure. Comparing it to the addictive powers of heroin is a bit dramatic. No...a lot dramatic. Try withdrawing from heroin and tell me it's the same thing.

Anytime you withdraw food from your menu that you are used to eating and gives you mental pleasure, you are going to miss it. Actually sugar will disrupt you more because it does wreak havoc with blood sugar levels so will give a person legitimate headaches and other symptoms but gluten....not so much. You are probably eating foods that you like and make you feel good and people derive a lot of satisfaction from that....no feelings of being deprived. I have yet to read anything that convinces me that it is a true withdrawal having to do with receptors in the brain.

The reason many people feel hungry when first going gluten-free is because they are not reacting to the food they eat and bloating up, which causes a feeling of fullness. That bloated feeling will keep you from being able to eat much, compared to not having a reaction and being able to eat normally. I know I was not eating much at all when I was sick because I was bloated up like the Hindenburg. Once things started to calm down and I felt better, I was able to eat much more because I was eating healthy with no reaction. What a great feeling that is!
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#9 NatureChick

 
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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:22 PM

Apologies. When I first did my research into opiod peptides in gluten years ago, I didn't realize that anyone had made claims that gluten had the same effects as heroin in the brain. I should have clarified when I made my first comment that just because they fit into the same receptors, doesn't mean the opiod peptides in wheat have the same effects as heroin.

That said, in one of the links Irish Heart provided that debunks this claim, the author does link to this study in mice that showed that one of the opiod peptides in wheat has been found to produce various effects in the peripheral and central nervous systems that facilitates learning, reduces anxiety, and when introduced directly into the brain, produced analgesia (pain killer).

There is another study that found that some of the opiod peptides in gluten appear to be inactive, while the most active were equivalent to a low dose of morphine. http://www.sciencedi...196978184901803

There was a study that specifically looked at whether or not opiod peptides were addictive and found that they definitely had an effect that involved both dopamine and serotonin. http://www.sciencedi...026049581901724

And another that relates opiod peptides to addiction. http://www.sciencema.../4404/415.short

But much of the issue that Irish Heart brought to our attention appears to be semantics. Of course I'm having difficulty taking seriously anyone who misuses the terms hypothesis (unproven) and theory (scientific evidence exists). But it appears that opiod peptides fall right in the middle on the scale. On one end, it is not "proven". On the other, it isn't just complete conjecture that hasn't been studied yet, a hypothesis. Rather if falls right in the middle as a theory and that scientific evidence does exist. 

I agree that gluten should not be equated to heroin so I should have been more careful in my wording earlier. And though it may not be "proven" that the opiod peptides are what makes gluten addicitve, there is evidence to suggest as much.

And Irish Heart does quote a mention of leaky gut playing a role. I personally am not a fan of the term leaky gut in general because it is so often misused in nonscientific claims. But I'll eagerly await a study of the hypothesis that a damaged digestive system could be more porous, which could be a reason why someone might have a stronger reaction to the properties of gluten than someone whose digestive system is working ideally.


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#10 IrishHeart

 
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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:52 PM

"Leaky gut " when mentioned in terms of celiac disease and autoimmunity is not at all "nonscientific". Have you read anything by Dr. Alessio Fasano? Here are just two of many pub med articles.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22109896

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21248165

 

An hypothesis is defined as "an idea or theory that is not proven but leads to further study or discussion". 

 

Not sure why you are arguing the meaning of these two words, but I am still sticking with the leading celiac researchers who say

there is no scientific evidence that gluten is additive (like a drug) in humans.

 
Evidence of the effects of opioids on rat brain tissue does not seem to support "gluten acts like an opioid " and causes "gluten addiction."

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"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else" Booker T. Washington

“If idiots could fly, the sky would be like an airport.”― Laura Davenport 

"Do or do not. There is no try. "-  Yoda.

"LTES"  Gem 2014

 

Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; Finally Diagnosed with Celiac  11/01/10.  Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. bliss-smiley-emoticon.gif


#11 GottaSki

 
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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:54 PM

Apologies. When I first did my research into opiod peptides in gluten years ago, I didn't realize that anyone had made claims that gluten had the same effects as heroin in the brain. I should have clarified when I made my first comment that just because they fit into the same receptors, doesn't mean the opiod peptides in wheat have the same effects as heroin.
That said, in one of the links Irish Heart provided that debunks this claim, the author does link to this study in mice that showed that one of the opiod peptides in wheat has been found to produce various effects in the peripheral and central nervous systems that facilitates learning, reduces anxiety, and when introduced directly into the brain, produced analgesia (pain killer).

There is another study that found that some of the opiod peptides in gluten appear to be inactive, while the most active were equivalent to a low dose of morphine. http://www.sciencedi...196978184901803
There was a study that specifically looked at whether or not opiod peptides were addictive and found that they definitely had an effect that involved both dopamine and serotonin. http://www.sciencedi...026049581901724
And another that relates opiod peptides to addiction. http://www.sciencema.../4404/415.short
But much of the issue that Irish Heart brought to our attention appears to be semantics. Of course I'm having difficulty taking seriously anyone who misuses the terms hypothesis (unproven) and theory (scientific evidence exists). But it appears that opiod peptides fall right in the middle on the scale. On one end, it is not "proven". On the other, it isn't just complete conjecture that hasn't been studied yet, a hypothesis. Rather if falls right in the middle as a theory and that scientific evidence does exist. 
I agree that gluten should not be equated to heroin so I should have been more careful in my wording earlier. And though it may not be "proven" that the opiod peptides are what makes gluten addicitve, there is evidence to suggest as much.
And Irish Heart does quote a mention of leaky gut playing a role. I personally am not a fan of the term leaky gut in general because it is so often misused in nonscientific claims. But I'll eagerly await a study of the hypothesis that a damaged digestive system could be more porous, which could be a reason why someone might have a stronger reaction to the properties of gluten than someone whose digestive system is working ideally.


Wow...that is a lot of information....none of which is needed to answer a question that may not have a single answer. Gluten makes Dania feel calm.

Welcome Dania!

I am one that encourages initial testing for celiac disease before complete gluten removal as that data can never be replicated.

Hang in there :)
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3/26/09 gluten-free - dignosed celiac - blood 3/3/09, biopsy 3/26/09, double DQ2 / single DQ8 positive

10/25/13 - MCAD

Health history since celiac diagnosis became too long -- moved to the "about me" section of my profile

My children and I all have multiple copies of the genes for Celiac Disease, along with large variety of symptoms/resolution gluten-free

Current tally from me, three kids and two grands: 4 diagnosed with Celiac Disease, 2 NCGS

Get PROPERLY tested BEFORE REMOVING GLUTEN.

ALWAYS independently research health related information found on internet forums/blogs.

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#12 kareng

 
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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:24 PM

kareng - I'm being tested because I have symptoms such as fatigue, deficiencies such as iron and vitamin d that are dropping despite supplementation, bloating, high thyroid antibodies, sudden problems with dental enamel despite excellent oral hygiene (and I'm only 22 years old), and so on.
?


Excellent reasons to continue eating gluten and be tested. If Celiac isn't the issue, then you and the docs will know to look further. If you find out it is celiac, welcome to the club. :)
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#13 NatureChick

 
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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:48 PM

 

"Leaky gut " when mentioned in terms of celiac disease and autoimmunity is not at all "nonscientific". Have you read anything by Dr. Alessio Fasano? Here are just two of many pub med articles.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22109896

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21248165

 

An hypothesis is defined as "an idea or theory that is not proven but leads to further study or discussion". 

 

Not sure why you are arguing the meaning of these two words, but I am still sticking with the leading celiac researchers who say

there is no scientific evidence that gluten is additive (like a drug) in humans.

 
Evidence of the effects of opioids on rat brain tissue does not seem to support "gluten acts like an opioid " and causes "gluten addiction."

 

Thanks for the links. I have seen various definitions and descriptions of the term leaky gut depending on the context in which it is being discussed, some of them based on solid science, others wild conjecture, which is why it is a term that I try to avoid using simply to avoid muddying an issue.

In science, the term hypothesis means an educated guess based on observation. The term theory means a hypotheses that is supported with scientific tests and is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. As far as I know, there are studies that show that opiod peptides are addictive while there aren't any that prove they are not.

Again, I'm not disputing that gluten is not addictive in the same way as heroin. This would be such a leap that it isn't even one that I would presume anyone would make which is why I didn't clarify more carefully in my original comment. I didn't realize that I was stepping on such a landmine that would get so many people's feathers ruffled.

But none of the links you shared said that gluten was not addictive or that opiod peptides weren't the cause of the addiction. One said that there wasn't enough study to fully understand, another said that the opiod peptides looked like likely culprits. So we aren't in disagreement.

I'm also aware that many of the claims made in the book Wheat Belly don't hold up to scientific review, which is why I chose not to read it.


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#14 dania

 
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Posted 09 July 2014 - 07:12 PM

Wow lots of replies and lots of information to look into. This seems to have sparked a bit of a debate. ;) thank you all for your replies! In any case, I need to get tested properly so I can rule it in or out.
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#15 LauraTX

 
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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:01 PM

Sorry about the debate sparking up there, Dania.  I think it is great you are going to go get testing done.  Let us know if you need help figuring out results or need to talk a doctor into something, great tips abound here.


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I was diagnosed with Celiac Disease in January 2013. I also have Lupus and Common Variable Immunodeficiency(CVID) for which I am on IVIG.

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