Genes Can Be 'changed' By Foods

[Claire]

Read this and think about Celiac, gluten sensitivity and other autoimmune diseases. Claire

Genes can be 'changed' by foods

"It's quite a strong possibility that nutrients might cause DNA changes. We think diet may have a role to play as a regulator in genes.

Open Original Shared Link

[Nantzie]

WOW! Very interesting. I hope they keep up on the research along this line of reasoning. It will be interesting to see how this research progresses over the next several years.

It would be cool for someone who has gotten their genes done to have them re-done by the same lab after a few years gluten-free to see if the same genetic markers come up.

Very cool.

Nancy

[Claire]

WOW!  Very interesting.  I hope they keep up on the research along this line of reasoning.  It will be interesting to see how this research progresses over the next several years. 

It would be cool for someone who has gotten their genes done to have them re-done by the same lab after a few years gluten-free to see if the same genetic markers come up. 

Very cool.

Nancy

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Glad to see someone else challenged by this concept! Claire

[FaithInScienceToo]

Very cool, Claire -

From the article, it seems that the genes themselves do not change (so the markers would not change), just the effects of them would change - that is, whether or not they get 'activated' by something in the diet would be what changes, and therefore whether or not they are 'told to' proceed to harm the body would be what changes -

A weird fleeting thought that gave me....maybe it's Mother Nature's way of pruning out those who eat bad diets

Anyway....THANKS for the link.

Gina

[Claire]

Very cool, Claire -

From the article, it seems that the genes themselves do not change (so the markers would not change), just the effects of them would change - that is, whether or not they get 'activated' by something in the diet would be what changes, and therefore whether or not they are 'told to' proceed to harm the body would be what changes -

A weird fleeting thought that gave me....maybe it's Mother Nature's way of pruning out those who eat bad diets

Anyway....THANKS for the link.

Gina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad you liked it. Always like to get a thread going that generates some interest. This is a little on the 'heavy' side but not too much. Claire

[Nantzie]

I bet you're right Gina. Like a celiac genetic marker that was activated would become deactivated, but not nonexistant. So if you theoretically got to the point where your celiac genes became deactivated, you'd still run the risk of them becoming activated again the same way they became activated in the first place.

The pruning out aspect of it makes sense too. If you go along the lines of the Dangerous Grains theory, where gluten really isn't good for anybody, maybe somewhere along the line, mother nature gave us the celiac gene in an attempt to keep us from eating gluten. It makes you wonder if maybe there was some sort of genetic splintering off at some specific point, possibly within an invading population like the Vikings, or even the Romans. That would make sense as far as why it seems to exist to some degree just about everywhere.

Nancy

[FaithInScienceToo]

Fascinating topic....interesting thoughts, Nancy...that Mother Nature thing was totally fleeting, but now that I've read your remarks, gotta truly wonder...

Gina

[mommida]

Thank you for the interesting article.

Currently I have been looking into more of the genetic testing aspect of Celiac. I am still at the beginning stages of fetomaternal microchimerism research. Could this be a possible reason for Celiac being triggered by a pregnancy?

Any one else have any articles or interest in this?

Laura

[jenvan]

Wow...that is deep. If regular food can do that...what can GMO food do ?!

[Claire]

Wow...that is deep.  If regular food can do that...what can GMO food do ?!

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Wheat as we know it IS a genetically modified food. It is NOT what people were eating thousands of years ago. The 'staff of life' once was - but not anymore. Someone on this forum previously posted the following article which tells just how altered this food really is. Claire

Open Original Shared Link

[jenvan]

yeah...that is true... have humans tainted everything??!

Genetically modified (or GM) wheats were not to be released until the early twenty-first century. The primary benefit of GM wheat technology is the precision it allows in adding desired wheat characteristics located at specific points on wheat's chromosomes.

Something to add... anyone hear of the GMing going on where a human gene is added to a plant? That is just raunchy...

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

This is scary... Open Original Shared Link

[FaithInScienceToo]

Something to add...  anyone hear of the GMing going on where a human gene is added to a plant? 

This is scary...  Open Original Shared Link

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Did you mean GEing? - for genetic engineering, or is the acronym GM for the same thing?

Anyway - this is bizarre - first I've heard of it....

To me, it is sad - makes me think humans are just too self-centered...

perhaps one of these chimeras will rise up and bite us in the buttocks one day....

This thread in now bizzarely interesting...and, I will now need to snuggle up 'extra' with my lovee tonight, to try to get this outta my mind

Thanks for 'that tangent,' though, Jen...we all need to keep track of what some of the nutty professors are up to...some are quite sane, of course...but others, though...ya gotta wonder...

Gina

[SurreyGirl]

Glad you liked it. Always like to get a thread going that generates some interest. This is a little on the 'heavy' side but not too much.  Claire

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Not very heavy at all, thank you Claire, Nantzie, Everyone...

I have once seen a metaphor in a scientific paper by a Chinese cancer researcher comparing genetic makeup to a loaded gun: on its own is harmless, but if you pull the trigger then it can kill. I am convinced that even if someone carries a faulty gene, then given the right sort of diet/lifestyle the illness doesn't have to happen.

I don't think it's possible to change genes themselves, but foods certainly can change gene expression for better or worse.

What bugs me in the medical research though is that many are working for drug companies (not to mention GM foods) and often against health, by attempting to treat symptoms with chemical drugs or looking for short term profits only. Sometimes there is a valid reason for drugs, but often there isn't. So few are seriously looking at prevention.

A few years ago I have read that someone won a Nobel prize for discovering that most cancers are caused by starving tissues of oxygen, now there are also anti-cancer products that attempt to oxygenate tissues. This makes sense when you look at most cancers (eg lungs), but it really hit home when I discovered celiac connection: celiacs being prone to intestinal cancers? - well, if you have permanent inflammation in the gut leading to malnutrition then if there is no iron/hemoglobin in the blood to carry oxygen around - what else can you possibly expect?? Of course it's a long process, so no researcher is going to study anything this long... so they keep looking for faulty genes and keep telling us that if you have a faulty gene, you have no chance anyway, or very little. Honestly!!

When you realise how many people are celiac and go undiagnosed for decades, then even the cancer epidemic makes sense. So many would probably be treated for cancer first. But it keep the industry going.. I have this image in my head, planet Earth swaying with grasses blowing in the wind and no human around..

Dark rings under eyes (in celiac children, eg my son)? - poorly oxygenated blood, if prolonged then it's only a question of time when and where cancer starts. And the doctors just shrug their shoulders, maybe give vitamins (that he couldn't absorb anyway). But of course you have to be more ill than that for someone to take notice.

Claire, I have seen one of your posts where you were saying that you have some irreversible neurological damage. My son has a fault on chromosome 9, we are waiting for the appt with Dr Hadjivassiliou regarding ataxia/gluten ataxia and celiac gene marker testing.

My son has some soft ataxia signs and when I found Dr H research I have immediately put him on gluten-free diet and I can see significant improvement. Just wondered, whether we need to eliminate all grains or any other foods? It's so darn hard, because he had no food intolerance symptoms at all, just black rings, one crumbly tooth, soft ataxia signs, lower ability at school.. How would I ever know what is helping - or not?? Also, if you have any questions that I could ask Dr H when I go to see him, please fire away, there could well be something that I haven't thought of yet, what may help a wider audience..

I am so incredibly grateful to all of you on this board...

[Claire]

. . . .

Claire, I have seen one of your posts where you were saying that you have some irreversible neurological damage.  My son has a fault on chromosome 9, we are waiting for the appt with Dr Hadjivassiliou regarding ataxia/gluten ataxia and celiac gene marker testing. 

My son has some soft ataxia signs and when I found Dr H research I have immediately put him on gluten-free diet and I can see significant improvement.  Just wondered, whether we need to eliminate all grains or any other foods?  It's so darn hard, because he had no food intolerance symptoms at all, just black rings, one crumbly tooth, soft ataxia signs, lower ability at school..  How would I ever know what is helping - or not??  Also, if you have any questions that I could ask Dr H when I go to see him, please fire away, there could well be something that I haven't thought of yet, what may help a wider audience..

I am so incredibly grateful to all of you on this board...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a great post. I hope many will read it.

Last night Larry King Live did a session with a group of people with MS. It included a neurologist/researcher. He said he didn't see any 'cure' as such but was so hopeful because of all the new drugs that were in one trial stage or another. You are right that the emphasis is on drugs - treating the symptoms. That's where the money is. The current research with celiac is profit driven. Sad. Maybe it will turn up a good thing. We will see. One neurologist that I saw recently told me about the remarkable improvement in MS patients who go on gluten-free diets.

Though I am still awaiting diagnosis confirmation, I have been told to be on a gluten-free diet as it is known that gluten is a neurotoxin. Though I have been relatively dairy free for a long time due to sensitivity I now am totally free because of the similiarity between the gluten protein in grains and the casein protein in milk. These proteins are virtually identical and the immune system can be duped. Do look into the subject of 'mimicry' in autoimmune diseases. I find it harder to be CF than gluten-free but I think it is necessary. Celiac treatment history bears out that Gluten-free Casein-free diets has been recommended for a long time.

You need to investigate what food sensitivities your son may have. You want to get the immune system quieted down to a point where it is no longer mounting food reactions. Strange as it is, some of these reactive foods show up after going gluten-free. They were no doubt there all the time but the gluten response overshadows everything else.

Perhaps I have written something here that will provoke some questions of your own. I certainly would ask him about prognosis if your son stays faithfully to the gluten-free diet. I would ask him what, if any, regular test monitoring he could recommend. If a MRI has not been done, I would request one. It is good to know if the ataxia is a transient symptom without significant visible cerebellar damage or whether damage has been done. If that is the case the MRI provides a baseline with which to monitor for further damage or damage containment.

Hope some of this helps.

How fortunate you are to have Dr. H. I sure wish he was in my neighborhood (native Canadian now U.S.) Claire

[SurreyGirl]

This is a great post. I hope many will read it.

I find it harder to be CF than gluten-free but I think it is necessary. 

If that is the case the MRI provides a baseline with which to monitor for further damage or damage containment.

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Thank you so much, Claire,

Good point about MRI, no we haven't had it done yet. We were told (approx 12 years ago) that his faulty gene will cause neurological damage *full stop*, nothing can be done to stop it or slow it down. The same gene (I am not yet sure whether the same exactly fault though) is responsible for Friedeirich's ataxia, ataxia

and occulomotor apraxia and ataxia with Coenzyme Q10 deficiency. How scary is that?

All these years I have been raking my brain to find a way to slow it down. I don't think we escaped permanent damage, but the improvement of gluten-free diet has made last 12 years of mental torture worth living. To be honest I think it's a miracle that I have made this connection and even more so that there is an improvement.

He was slurring speech, had balance problems, it really was frightening, because I knew others with the same genetic fault that have recently died (having gone down in a similar way over the years-with all the problems pointing to gluten toxicity, but they had of course never been tested). All the doctors kept telling me (and other families) that there was nothing that could be done. Even now, I think Dr H is the only doctor that I know of who has some knowledge and faith in the gluten-free diet. All the others still think it's only celiacs with gut reactions that need to have gluten-free diet.

Yes, I have seen some articles about improvements in MS on gluten-free diet as well. I have also seen recommendations that anyone with a neurological conditions of unknown/uncertain origin should be tested for gluten intolerance and consider gluten-free diet (this was why we went on gluten-free diet - it was my only hope).

I find it really hard to implement completely casein-free for him at the moment, although I am trying to limit dairy as much as possible. He is rebelling about it. I keep explaining why and I think some time soon it should sink in. So we are casein-limited for now.

I will have to rethink our foods completely, I feel I am still fire-fighting in the kitchen, but without this site I would be a total wreck.

Thank you ALL for being here.

[FaithInScienceToo]

Did you mean GEing? - for genetic engineering, or is the acronym GM for the same thing?

Gina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see from the above posts that GM is for genetically modified. Got it, now -

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Surrey girl - your posts are very informative, like Claire's.

I hope that your son's 'negative gene' can one day be turned off completely.

About casein-limited -

Are you using any enzyme products to help break-down whatever casein he is getting? Not sure if it will help, but I believe they are supposed to break casein down into less toxic peptides.

I bought some recently from Kirkman Labs, on-line (when I was hoping to avoid going casein-free ) - but I went CF right afterwards - so, I don't know if they actually help.

[An aside - After being CF for 6 months, I plan to re-test for antibodies, and if they are negative I will then try to limit casein on a rotational basis while using the enzymes, in hopes to keep the antibodies at bay, and to keep the 'large, bad' peptides from harming me - I will be my own guinny pig.]

Gina

[Claire]

Thank you so much, Claire, 

Good point about MRI, no we haven't had it done yet.  We were told (approx 12 years ago) that his faulty gene will cause neurological damage *full stop*, nothing can be done to stop it or slow it down.  The same gene (I am not yet sure whether the same exactly fault though) is responsible for Friedeirich's ataxia, ataxia

and occulomotor apraxia and ataxia with Coenzyme Q10 deficiency.  How scary is that?

All these years I have been raking my brain to find a way to slow it down.  I don't think we escaped permanent damage, but the improvement of gluten-free diet has made last 12 years of mental torture worth living.  To be honest I think it's a miracle that I have made this connection and even more so that there is an improvement.

He was slurring speech, had balance problems, it really was frightening, because I knew others with the same genetic fault that have recently died (having gone down in a similar way over the years-with all the problems pointing to gluten toxicity, but they had of course never been tested).  All the doctors kept telling me (and other families) that there was nothing that could be done.  Even now, I think Dr H is the only doctor that I know of who has some knowledge and faith in the gluten-free diet.  All the others still think it's only celiacs with gut reactions that need to have gluten-free diet.

Yes, I have seen some articles about improvements in MS on gluten-free diet as well.  I have also seen recommendations that anyone with a neurological conditions of unknown/uncertain origin should be tested for gluten intolerance and consider gluten-free diet (this was why we went on gluten-free diet - it was my only hope).

I find it really hard to implement completely casein-free for him at the moment, although I am trying to limit dairy as much as possible.  He is rebelling about it.  I keep explaining why and I think some time soon it should sink in.  So we are casein-limited for now.

I will have to rethink our foods completely, I feel I am still fire-fighting in the kitchen, but without this site I would be a total wreck. 

Thank you ALL for being here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neurological diseases are at the least intimidating and yes also - scary!

U personally believe that some people do far better than the doctor's prognosis. These are, I think, people who have a determination and will to do their very best to 'have a decent life' in spite of the issues. Sometimes it is a family member (like you) who is aggressive in the interest of the best life that can be had under the circumstances.

A healthy body has a better chance of overcoming or keeping pace with disorders like this than a sick body does. Optimum health is a must. The best foods, best water, best supplements, best exericise (if possible} - fresh air and proper rest. You cannot correct nature's error but you can surely remove absolutely everything that undermines good health and provide everything that encourages it. This is true for anyone with any disease or neurological disorder - without exception. If slowing the process is at all possible this approach will help. Perhaps slowing the process is the best you can hope for at this point in time.

If my current diagnosis (under investigation) is correct then that is about the best I can hope for.

There is a great deal of similiarity among the neuro disorders. MS and celiac/gluten ataxia and the genetic cerebellar ataxias all look very much alike on an MRI - the same kind of damage is being done. The patterns of distribution differ somewhat.

Dr. H. has been a pioneer in recognizing the gluten-brain connection. Yes, I actually do have two neurologists who believe it is wise to remove gluten from patients with neuro disorders of any variety. As you might guess, they are both working in a research facility. These guys are more open minded.

I mentioned (I think) seeing a TV program here where MS patients were being interviewed. Their attitudes were remarkable and so was their health. They were all doing far better than any MS patients I have ever seen. One was diagnosed 33 years ago and he is still walking - talking with a somewhat raspy voice but without slurring. He is legally blind - not uncommon with MS. The bottom line is - it is not always as bleak as even doctors make it sound. People do take the bull by the horns and accomplish more than is expected. For the caregiver it is an ongoing education process. Learn everything you can - apply what holds any promise. (Is he taking CoQ10?) Try to get your son to participate in his own survival process. It's hard to be tough, but be tough if you have to be. Claire

[SurreyGirl]

... They were all doing far better than any MS patients I have ever seen...

Learn everything you can - apply what holds any promise. (Is he taking CoQ10?)

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Thank you Claire, we are thinking the same..

Until now I have been told by all the doctors that my son is doing "better than expected" too. Now he improved so much that the school are sending me notes how well he is doing. Stiffness in his feet joints has subsided and the foot angle improved by 10 degrees in less then a month. He always had a decent diet, but the improvement on gluten-free is staggering. Yes, he does various sports and exercises, he is not severely disabled, many people would probably be in the camp "wait and see", but knowing what I know, I am working flat out on prevention/slowing down. Having the knowledge of the faulty gene (and seeing older cases) has been a great advantage and spurred me on.

I have seen on another celiac board that in celiacs red blood cells can be enlarged. That makes me think that perhaps they are enlarged so much that they don't make it through the tiniest capillaries that feed the brain cells?. And I think it's the red cells that carry oxygen around. This could perhaps be the reason for starving brain from oxygen what would probably lead to permanent damage over prolonged period of time?.. I still haven't read all the threads on here, so apologies if I am repeating the obvious.. However, I do think that the brain has some ability to compensate (within reason) so I am not giving up. And we haven't had that many tests yet, not even the blood count or even blood group. My research started with the genes..

Just thinking aloud here, maybe something like ginko might open up the blood vessels just a little bit more? Also, do these red cells shrink back at all on gluten-free to make it through the capillaries? How long do they take? Look, celiacs suffer from tingling extremities, cold hands, feet, neuropathy, all this just points to the blood not getting to the end cells of the blood system in various places. It makes sense to me, don't you think? In Dangerous Grains (I think), I remember reading that gluten causes blood vessels abnormalities, so if the red cells get too large and the capillaries get too small then it's no surprise for the symptoms that point to restricted blood flow anywhere in the body.

CoQ10, no we haven't yet done anything about it. I remember once buying this, but at the time I had no direction and not enough knowledge. I also opened the capsule and it looked a bit goey inside (why was I thinking it should be powder??) and it put me off (my son didn't want to eat pills). His energy levels (on the surface of course) appear OK (the older cases were NOT). He takes a good gluten-free multivit and I also try and make fresh juices every few days, just to give him a fill of fresh vits.

My next line of enquiry is B12, he doesn't like meat, so I need to investigate his levels, because that can also have impact on the brain. Also, for the last few years I have been using flaxseeds, those healthy omega3 fats, and that also is helping. Good fats also increase energy levels and they have made a massive improvement in his skin appearance.

Thank you for your input for my list of questions, keep inspiring me.

[Claire]

Thank you Claire, we are thinking the same..

Until now I have been told by all the doctors that my son is doing "better than expected" too.  Now he improved so much that the school are sending me notes how well he is doing.  S

Thank you for your input for my list of questions, keep inspiring me.

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Here I am again. Hopefully we won't be considered off topic with these discussions. If so we can communicate via PM but then other miss the discussion. I can always open a new topic.

I am so impressed with the research minded approach you are taking to your son's condition. I am even more impressed with some of your conclusions - specifically those related to the size of the blood cells and the oxygen transport implied. Did you read this or is this your own thinking?

If it is your thinking you need to share it somewhere where it counts. Researchers don't do all the thinking you know. I just came upon something in a recent genetic finding that made me sit up and take notice. I don't know anything much about genetics but I still saw a connection to something that I did know. I hope some researcher sees it also. You have an idea there that deserves attention. I think you are really on to something. Certainly there is nothing to lose by following it up. Your thinking on the neuropathies makes perfect sense too.

Ginko sounds like something worth a try. The blood cell approach is new to me - and fascinating.

I will look into it also. It would have implications for anyone with neurological problems.

Has you son been given exercises of any kind to do? I have different motion patterns to do every day as well as my neurologist told me to use Tai Chi exercises. He said it was important to keep neurons alive and that the stimulation helps prevent the degeneration.

Read up on CoQ10. It is promoted for energy but it is in use now by neurologists for MS patients.

MS, lupus, cerebellar ataxia have so much in common. If it useful for the brain - then anyone with a disorder that stems from the brain should give it a try. I have been taking it for 6 months - one month longer than I have been gluten free. The energy boost has been wonderful. I expect other improvements, if any, to be slower in coming.

I do not recall the age of your son. You speak of things he doesn't want to eat, doesn't want to take pills etc. Does he realize what is at stake? He really cannot afford an 'I don't want to'

attitude. His ability to function is on the line. You know it and are responding with much courage and with the determination to find answers - even small ones. You can't do it alone. He must be as courageous and determined for himself as you are for him. Forgive me if I speak out of turn here but was a Rehabilitation Therapist and I might get 'carried away'. Just bop me one if I do. Claire

[SurreyGirl]

.. The blood cell approach is new to me..

Has you son been given exercises of any kind to do? 

Read up on CoQ10. 

I do not recall the age of your son...

Claire

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep going Claire, I have high hopes that with people like you we can get somewhere with this.

I have been reading the medical stuff for years now (my son is 13), but celiac discovery is recent and explains ALL the symptoms seen in my son's condition and is directly related to ataxia/gluten ataxia research. I have told him what the worst scenario could be like, but he still doesn't quite believe it and tells me that I am trying to scare him. We do some exercises on his feet and he does various sports, cycling etc. I do appreciate all you say, because we are in it together and if we can help each other to move forward than that's the main goal.

I have seen a post on another celiac MB from a lady who was diagnosed with celiac and in her blood test it was noted that her red cells were enlarged, which apparently was put down to B12 deficiency.

I remember from biology long time ago that it's the red cells that are responsible for carrying oxygen & nutrients around. Then my health-oriented friend added that a similar thing happens to some organs: thyroid is enlarged at iodine deficiency and prostate at zinc deficiency (they try to increase their absorption surface to extract as much of whatever they need as they can), so it looks like a similar thing is happening to red cells.

Encouraged by you, I have now sent a note to DrH about it, I am not sure whether he will respond before we actually go to see him, but if he does, I will let you know. As you can imagine, I can't just sit and wait for someone to dish me the answers on the plate, I really need to act on anything that I think is reasonable-or I will run out of time.

I have just found this comment on another gluten-related website (Open Original Shared Link):

"Antibodies may also attach to gliadin molecules flowing in the blood. The resulting antibody-gliadin “clumps” can collect in capillaries. This effect is recognized in the case of Dermatitis Herpetiformis and may be involved in many other conditions."

So it looks like we are definitely down to biochemistry, but I can't think how to move on from here. Help!! Blocked capillaries explain most if not all symptoms of gluten intolerance.

When I thought about it more, I can now see that if red cells can't get to destination cells with nutrients, then they can't pick up and remove the waste products either - and I remember one consultant telling me that he thinks that brain cells are damaged by toxicity. So, just opening up the blood vessels could only be a short term measure..

Can you think of how we can get some molecular biology advice on this?

[SurreyGirl]

About casein-limited -

Are you using any enzyme products to help break-down whatever casein he is getting? Not sure if it will help, but I believe they are supposed to break casein down into less toxic peptides.

Gina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gina, thank you for your caseine enzyme idea, I never knew this existed.

I will look into it and also ask our consultant about it.

[Claire]

Keep going Claire, I have high hopes that with people like you we can get somewhere with this.

I have been reading the medical stuff for years now (my son is 13), but celiac discovery is recent and explains ALL the symptoms seen in my son's condition and is directly related to ataxia/gluten ataxia research. I have told him what the worst scenario could be like, but he still doesn't quite believe it and tells me that I am trying to scare him. We do some exercises on his feet and he does various sports, cycling etc. I do appreciate all you say, because we are in it together and if we can help each other to move forward than that's the main goal.

I have seen a post on another celiac MB from a lady who was diagnosed with celiac and in her blood test it was noted that her red cells were enlarged, which apparently was put down to B12 deficiency.

I remember from biology long time ago that it's the red cells that are responsible for carrying oxygen & nutrients around. Then my health-oriented friend added that a similar thing happens to some organs: thyroid is enlarged at iodine deficiency and prostate at zinc deficiency (they try to increase their absorption surface to extract as much of whatever they need as they can), so it looks like a similar thing is happening to red cells.

Encouraged by you, I have now sent a note to DrH about it, I am not sure whether he will respond before we actually go to see him, but if he does, I will let you know. As you can imagine, I can't just sit and wait for someone to dish me the answers on the plate, I really need to act on anything that I think is reasonable-or I will run out of time.

I have just found this comment on another gluten-related website (Open Original Shared Link):

"Antibodies may also attach to gliadin molecules flowing in the blood. The resulting antibody-gliadin “clumps” can collect in capillaries. This effect is recognized in the case of Dermatitis Herpetiformis and may be involved in many other conditions."

So it looks like we are definitely down to biochemistry, but I can't think how to move on from here. Help!! Blocked capillaries explain most if not all symptoms of gluten intolerance.

When I thought about it more, I can now see that if red cells can't get to destination cells with nutrients, then they can't pick up and remove the waste products either - and I remember one consultant telling me that he thinks that brain cells are damaged by toxicity. So, just opening up the blood vessels could only be a short term measure..

Can you think of how we can get some molecular biology advice on this?

Hello again. I didn't forget you - just had a holiday and then a guest for 10 days so I got behind. I have a regular online job everyday too so I run out of spare time.

Again I question whether we are far off topic. Should I start a new topic? Use PMs?

As I have said, you are way ahead of me with some of the thinking, reading you have done so I am trying to follow along.

Glad you sent your thoughts to Dr. H. Hope he has an open as well as a brilliant mind. I sure would like an hour or so alone with him! When is your appointment.

Tell me more about how you see this issue of clogged capillaries explaining gluten intolerance.

Be sure to ask Dr. H how he feels about gluten free diets for people with neurological disorders who are not celiac. How did you come to do that with your son?

Biochemistry yes - but also cellular biology.

Think about doing this. Put your thoughts together and on paper. Organize. Look for a well known, preferably local, college that has a Dept. of Cellular Biology. This may take some hunting. When you find one you make an appointment with the Dean of the Dept. or whatever the 'head honcho' would be. You tell him you want to find graduate student who would like to have a challenging subject for a doctoral thesis. Tell him what you have and ask him to point you toward someone who would be capable as well as interested. If he likes what you have, he will take it himself. If he is too busy he will point you in the right direction - maybe tell you to post on internal message boards - free advertising for a student willing to take on a challenge.

You will need to really whip all your thoughts into shape so you can pose a question or questions that would be the challenge to which a student would reply, would be the basis of the research he would have to do to put his thesis together.

Students do struggle to find the material for these required projects. If you can make it interesting enough you just might find a taker.

You could also post independently at a college or colleges or put an ad in a college newspaper. I think cellular biology is probably the way to go but brain physiology and/or brain biochemistry are also possibilities. Even Hematology would be a thought.

I am rather wandering here but perhaps this will get you thinking.

Speaking of 'toxicity' I am told here that gluten is a neuro toxin. You might ask Dr.H if he agrees with that.

I have wandered a lot here. Hope something is motivating. Claire