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Communion Wafers


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#1 Caeli

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 02:20 AM

I am a devout Catholic and I know that I can receive low gluten wheaten hosts. My question are:
1. Can a Coeliac tolerate low gluten hosts? I beleive the allowable gluten ratio is 200 (I think this refers to 200 parts per million).
2. If you can tolerate a low gluten host, why can't a person receive a very small portion of a normal wheaten host? In other words, only ingest a very small portion of the host, perhaps half a fingernal or less?
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#2 debmidge

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 02:39 AM

Caeli

Your question is interesting. How did you find out that you can tolerate a low gluten host?
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#3 Caeli

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 04:30 AM

Caeli

Your question is interesting. How did you find out that you can tolerate a low gluten host?

My naswer is that I don't know if I can! I guess my question is how much or little gluten can a coeliac ingest before there is an adverse reaction? Is it totally zero. It is not as if somebody is having a large slice of bread when they receive communion. If somebody was to have a minute piece of bread (like one does when one might receive less than 0.5cm piece of consecrated unleavened bread) will this be enough to "set off" the process of villi destruction or might one only expect a minute, perhaps physically and medically an indiscernable (undetectable) if any reaction?

I guess I would like to ask a medical professional to answer this question. I am visiting a gastroenterologist on Monday so I might ask him. I am afraid though that the answer will be "I don't know" and perhaps I'll just have to keep receiving communion and be on a otherwise gluten-free diet and see whether there is some recovery in my villi when I have my next endoscopy biobsy of my small intestines.
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#4 debbiewil

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 05:42 AM

One study showed that .1g of gluten raised antibodies. So, that small of an amount has been proven to do damage. Damage hasn't been measured at lower amounts, but who knows if our bodies are still having a slight reaction, just not enough to measure. From what I understand, .1g is just about the amount in one of the low gluten hosts. So, I wouldn't even trust a low gluten host not to do damage. If you really, really, really have to take communion, I would suggest that only a small portion of even the low gluten wafer be consumed. And if you don't need to take it, I'd avoid it altogether. But that's a personal decision.
Debbie
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#5 Jnkmnky

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 09:28 AM

Just receive the wine until the church comes around and realizes a rice cracker doen't interfere with the commandment. :)
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#6 Nancym

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 09:32 AM

I've heard you can forego the wafers and just have a sip of the wine instead. Have you looked into that?
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#7 Susan123

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 09:38 AM

Not all Catholic churches drink the wine. Wine is part of the sacrament but not communal. My church (catholic) has totally Gluten Free Wafers that they will include in the eucharist for me. I just have to let them know prior to mass that I am there.

BTW, it is true that the pope has said it is ok for people with celiac to drink the wine only.
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#8 jojoe72

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 10:19 AM

Not all Catholic churches drink the wine. Wine is part of the sacrament but not communal. My church (catholic) has totally Gluten Free Wafers that they will include in the eucharist for me. I just have to let them know prior to mass that I am there.

BTW, it is true that the pope has said it is ok for people with celiac to drink the wine only.


This is one of my concerns with celiac. I'm a Catholic and I definately get reactions when I have gotten communion. I've looked into this and the Catholic Church states that the communion wafer must be wheat with no substitutions. So basically rice or potato, etc... will not be considered the Body of Christ. I stopped taking communion and if they don't have wine I just go without. Not to sound fanatical but God made us this way right? I can't explain it....I just try to adapt.
Joe
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#9 jenvan

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 11:12 AM

I am prost. myself and have decided to opt out of communion for the time being until I discuss bringing in gluten-free bread in my church...however I literally just finished reading a study on a Catholic woman who was completely gluten-free, except for communion, and although her symptoms disappeared...her intestinal damage was still severe. Personally, I would never choose anything 'low gluten'...only no gluten. At this point, research is still limited and there is little way of knowing how much gluten one person cab "get away" with vs. another. I understand the powerful significance of communion, as a Christian, but I do not believe that taking such a risk with a glutened host would glorify God. I do not think that is a reflection on a lack of faith either... I know for many Catholics, a no-gluten host is not an option at present...but there are other options, including experiencing communion on your own or with a bible study group or friends. Communion is ours to remember Christ on our own, not just in the Church... (Not such a technical answer for you : )
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#10 jerseyangel

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 11:44 AM

As a Catholic, I choose not to take Communion at all under the present circumstances. It is an option to take the wine only, but there is a real chance of CC there. The last time I took Communion, I began to feel sick in the car on the way home. That was shortly before my DX. I am so sensitive to even the slightest amount of gluten that I'd be afraid to take even a low gluten host. It is difficult for me to wrap my mind around the fact that because I react to a Communion wafer, the Church sees that as a contradiction of a basic Church doctrine--that the bread and wine is actually changed to the body and blood--thus it should not make me sick. Only it does. They say to treat Celiacs with "quiet acceptance". Sadly, the resolution to this, I believe, is a long way off. This does not in any way change my personal relationship with God. As He said--Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me".
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#11 kathy1

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 12:07 PM

I belong to an Episcopal Church and we dip our Communion wafers in the wine vs drinking the wine, so CC would be a real issue. be careful that no one is dipping in the wine at your church (maybe they have a cold and dicide to dip instead of drink)
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#12 Jnkmnky

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 01:08 PM

Not all Catholic churches drink the wine. Wine is part of the sacrament but not communal. My church (catholic) has totally Gluten Free Wafers that they will include in the eucharist for me. I just have to let them know prior to mass that I am there.

BTW, it is true that the pope has said it is ok for people with celiac to drink the wine only.


The Catholic Church does NOT recognize as valid, a host which is gluten free. Is your church an off-shoot of a Catholic community? The Catholic Church has very strong opinions on this gluten issue and will not *at present* make acceptions.
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#13 Idahogirl

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 01:16 PM

The problem is with the church and the doctrine of Transubstantiation. If you believe that a certain type of bread is literally transformed into the body of Christ (which I don't), then you're out of luck if you can't have that certain type of bread. And since according to the church, salvation is obtained through good works, including something you can't do, you're out of luck there too. Does anyone else see a major problem here? Jesus condemned the Pharisees because they were so stuck on outward rules and regulations, they missed the spirit of the Law and the heart of God altogether. Your body is a temple, so harming it would not be pleasing to Him (the Catholic church is saying that harming it is necessary to please God).

You're not doing anything wrong if you go against the church and use a rice cracker. Biblically, they are the ones in the wrong, and that is not your problem.

Being in right standing with God does not come from the sacraments, nor by "being a good person". No sinful human can please God. We are all guilty of breaking His law (test yourself by the Ten Commandments) and according to the Bible, are deserving of death. Only Jesus could please God through the perfect life that he lived on earth. And only He could pay the penalty due for our sins. Salvation is by grace, through faith, alone. If you accept His sacrifice as payment for your sins, He will make you new and good works will flow from you. You will no longer have to work for your salvation, and feel guilty if you can't do it all. It's already been done for you. You can take communion until you're blue in the face, but if you have not accepted Jesus's gift to you in faith, and the Spirit of God does not live within you, it will be a waste of time.

I can't read through a post on religion without telling you about the good news that you can have salvation today, and know that you are saved for all eternity. Nothing is required of you except believing and accepting!

Lisa
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#14 celiac3270

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 02:14 PM

Not all Catholic churches drink the wine. Wine is part of the sacrament but not communal. My church (catholic) has totally Gluten Free Wafers that they will include in the eucharist for me. I just have to let them know prior to mass that I am there.

BTW, it is true that the pope has said it is ok for people with celiac to drink the wine only.


I'm also Catholic. Actually, the wine IS communal. Though we in the west traditionally favor the bread over the wine, BOTH are actually equal and you can have just one as both the body and blood.

Secondly, the Church does not recognize a gluten-free wafer. You may have read about the 8-year-old celiac girl whose "Communion" was not recognized because she used a gluten-free host.

Of course, you can drink only the wine. A few pitfalls there, as well, though. First, the wafers are sometimes dipped into the wine prior to the mass. Floating crumbs can mean for contamination. Second, the priest sometimes brushes crumbs into the cup, etc.

And about the low gluten host: 200 ppm sounds VERY high to me. I had heard about low-gluten hosts having much less. I think we can only tolerate about that amount each day and there is inevitable contamination in your daily life that won't affect you on its own, but will in conjunction with a low-gluten host of such high gluten quantity.
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#15 hez

 
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Posted 06 January 2006 - 04:17 PM

I am an Episcopalian and have worked out a communion rice cracker with my priest. However, my husband is Catholic so I understand (somewhat) the challenges you face with communion. I would highly reccomend speaking to your priest. From what I understand having just the wine "counts" as communion. I remember reading a thread where the catholic celiac has a special chalice to drink the wine from to eliminate cc issues. There was also a article in Gluten Free Living (some time ago) regarding the low gluten host. It might be another thing to research. I wish you luck. I know from personal experience how meaningful communion is.

Hez
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