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Communion Wafers


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#31 debmidge

 
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Posted 08 January 2006 - 03:01 AM

Caeli

I enjoyed, sincerely, your sermon. Your health issues sound like my husband's (he's the celiac, not me - at least as far as I know I'm not). He had a physical breakdown when he was 27, he's 55 now. Had seen at least 7 gastros/GP's over the past 28 years all had the same diagnosis in some form: IBS, colitis, irritable bowel, ileitus, "it's all in your head" etc. And I can't blame the ineptness on HMO doctors because we didn't go thru an HMO at any point in this mess.

He had "classic" celiac symptoms: gut discomfort, belching/gas, bloating, diarrhea, lost about 25% of his body weight (he wasn't overweight to start with) and had to stop working he was so sick, he developed the appearance of anexoria. For many years he ate stuff he shouldn't have due to these misdiagnoses: whole wheat, wheat bran, oats, etc. as he was advised to do so. Over the years he became agraphobic too and morbidly depressed. In 2003 he had a further breakdown physically and he went to a new gastro (one that wasn't trained in USA) and after the first 5 minutes of hearing this story the gastro said "You have celiac disease." And the gluten-free diet began. He's gained back about 8 lbs in 2 years, not enough but we'll take it. No more gut noises or reactions. Depression lifted somewhat. But he's still tethered to the apartment by diet now and by fear of unknown. He has also developed neurological problems due to the years of misdiagnosis.
We've been married for 26 years. Now I have learned to cook differently.


I am wishing healing and health for you so that you can complish God's goals in your life.

Deb
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Husband has Celiac Disease and
Husband misdiagnosed for 27 yrs -
The misdiagnosis was: IBS or colitis
Mis-diagnosed from 1977 to 2003 by various gastros including one of the largest,
most prestigious medical groups in northern NJ which constantly advertises themselves as
being the "best." This GI told him it was "all in his head."
Serious Depressive state ensued
Finally Diagnosed with celiac disease in 2003
Other food sensitivities: almost all fruits, vegetables, spices, eggs, nuts, yeast, fried foods, roughage, soy.
Needs to gain back at least 25 lbs. of the 40 lbs pounds he lost - lost a great amout of body fat and muscle
Developed neuropathy in 2005
Now has lymphadema 2006
It is my opinion that his subsequent disorders could have been avoided had he been diagnosed sooner by any of the dozen or so doctors he saw between 1977 to 2003

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#32 jerseyangel

 
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Posted 08 January 2006 - 05:47 AM

Caeli--Hi Father--After reading your "sermon", I have to say that you were describing my story to a tee. The way you talked about the anxiety, the nausea when you were younger, increasing D with age, depression at times, how it all fed into itself and how no one ever put it together. I believe we are aprox. the same age and as I read your post, I couldn't believe how much your story was like mine. I have been gluten-free for 7 months now. I have had great improvement in the D--never have it any more unless I accidently take in gluten. After an uneven start of 3 months, I felt well up until Dec. when I began (for no reason I can think of) to have problems with indigestion and gas that seems to stay in my upper abdominal region and refuses to move in any direction. I see my GI on the 17th. and will be discussing that with him then. Hopefully, you will begin to improve on the diet--I'm sure you will, I think those of us with years of damage take a bit longer to see improvement.
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Patti


"Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans"

"When people show you who they are, believe them"--Maya Angelou

"Bloom where you are planted"--Bev

#33 phakephur

 
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Posted 08 January 2006 - 08:22 AM

...however I literally just finished reading a study on a Catholic woman who was completely gluten-free, except for communion, and although her symptoms disappeared...her intestinal damage was still severe.



jenvan,
Can you tell me if this asymptomatic communion taker had positive blood panel?

Thanks
Sarah
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#34 Susan123

 
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Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:21 AM

The Catholic Church does NOT recognize as valid, a host which is gluten free. Is your church an off-shoot of a Catholic community? The Catholic Church has very strong opinions on this gluten issue and will not *at present* make acceptions.



My church is not an off-shoot of Catholicism. It is definitely Catholic and has been around for over 150 years in my community. We have more than a few Celiac people in my church and to quote the pastor of my church, " We take care of our own and make sure that they do not receive any wheat in their communion" The "special hosts" are blessed during the sacrament on a separate plate. Maybe they are doing it on their own and shouldn't be but they are. Also, they have gluten free menu items for the school as well.
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#35 Jnkmnky

 
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Posted 09 January 2006 - 11:50 AM

My church is not an off-shoot of Catholicism. It is definitely Catholic and has been around for over 150 years in my community. We have more than a few Celiac people in my church and to quote the pastor of my church, " We take care of our own and make sure that they do not receive any wheat in their communion" The "special hosts" are blessed during the sacrament on a separate plate. Maybe they are doing it on their own and shouldn't be but they are. Also, they have gluten free menu items for the school as well.


FYI- the Catholic Church does NOT recognize your gluten-free hosts as valid. You are not receiving the body of Christ. Your priest could get in trouble for claiming your gluten-free "host" is valid. Rather than going against the Church, why not stick with the wine as they've instructed Celiacs to do? Get a separate cup - as is allowed- and make a point of sipping your wine without any arguement. Offer the slight up as a minor issue and pray that you are eventually "called to the supper" properly in the near future. Praying about it and following the current rules is what will be the most effective. Breaking rules, supporting those who engage in breaking the rules, and thumbing your nose at the Church leadership only antagonizes the situation.
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#36 CarlaB

 
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Posted 09 January 2006 - 04:18 PM

I have been reading this message board for a couple months, but have not written until now. I am a Catholic and apparently am gluten intolerant or celiac, not sure which. I discovered a wheat intolerance about three years ago when I did a rotation diet to figure out why I was not feeling well. I have had digestive issues all my life and many stories on this board sound like mine. I have always, since I was a small child, not trusted the medical profession because they never really seemed to be able to help but only could mask the symptoms. Anyway, I did not eliminate all gluten because I didn't realize it was in so many things and because I only thought wheat was the problem. After 3 years almost wheat-free, I began getting sloppy because I'm so busy with my 6 kids and life in general. So, all of a sudden I dropped 15 pounds in three months and was becoming anorexic as I could eat nothing. At 123 pounds, 5'8" I began eating as much as I could to get my family off my back about seeing a doctor. I ate double what my husband did and managed to stabilize my weight. I finally was convinced to see a doctor, but my blood tests were negative, which was probably because by that time I was gluten-free and had eaten little wheat for three years. I also had a negative biopsy after torturing myself with gluten for 8 weeks. I only ate a little each day because what little I was eating was making me miserable. I could hardly get out of bed, I was so dizzy I often had my husband drive me where I needed to go, bloated, heavy brain fog, joint pain, muscle weakness, blisters and rashes on my skin, plus digestive issues. I told the doctor about my rashes and blisters, but he never tested them. That's it in a nutshell. I've been gluten-free for a month and am quite a bit better. I'm eating less and maintaining my weight, last week I could make it till 4:30 without taking a nap, today I made it till 6:30 before I needed a rest - progress!

About the communion topic, since I am a layperson, I bought my own chalice to use at daily masses, retreats, etc. When there are many cups available, I watch to be sure that the priest doesn't put the host (or crumbs) in each cup and am sure to be one of the first to receive to prevent cross contamination because even crumbs will make me sick as I found out Christmas Eve when I ate a piece of cheese that others had been putting on crackers.

If I were a priest, I believe I would buy the low-gluten hosts made by the Benedictine Sisters that are made with wheat starch and are .01% gluten and have been approved by the Vatican. Fr. mentioned eating a small piece of a regular host, I would eat a very small piece of this low-gluten host instead since even a crumb is enough to count as receiving.

Also, Fr., you mentioned going to Italy. I hear that there are so many celiacs there that it is a good place for us! I would definately go, and I really look forward to reading anything that you write in your research about gluten and the Church.
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gluten-free 12/05

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#37 celiachap

 
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Posted 09 January 2006 - 11:16 PM

Since the subject of "heaven" has been introduced, here's some thoughts.

All I know is that when my time comes to approach the alleged "pearly gates", and if there really IS a gatekeeper as we've been told, St. "The Rock" Peter might just paraphrase that stoned ex-Dell TV pitchman (who was immediately dropped by Dell after a marijuana street-bust incident in NYC) and say to me, "DUDE, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!" :P

I wonder if they have gluten free-food down there? I know that I'll enjoy the company of the opposite sex that ended up (another oxymoron, Padre?) there, regardless of the threat, "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.", lol. :wub:

Another question: Is it possible for any human with heart, and feelings, to enjoy himself in "paradise" knowing full-well that the vast majority of people, who are not to blame for their circumstances, beliefs and/or personality, are being punished for all eternity? It's not much of a stretch to visualize the professionals who make their living through this abominable creed attaching no importance whatsoever to, and doing nothing to help, people that are getting extremely sick from consuming gluten in the "holy sacrament", as long as their power, and reign of control, prevails over their "flock", intact.

The truly compassionate person would eschew heaven, and choose to minister to the poor souls in the dungeons of the netherworld. I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing that there was even one unfortunate victim in that place, and could not, in good conscience, worship, serve, give praise or any kind of support to a being, supernatural or otherwise, that perpetrates such an atrocity on his own children.

Edited by celiachap, 10 January 2006 - 11:38 AM.

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Diagnosed with Celiac March, 2005: Positive endoscopy, blood tests and biopsy. Gluten free since March 2005.

Retested Jan. 2006: Negative blood tests: "Results do not support a diagnosis of celiac disease. Serological markers for celiac disease were not detected."

Results for 2006 endoscope/biopsy pending.


Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.
-Thomas Jefferson

Give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will but first let me eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
- Robert Green Ingersoll

#38 SurreyGirl

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 04:58 AM

..WHO... mentioned going to Italy?...
I hear that there are so many celiacs there that it is a good place for us! I would definately go.


Hi Carla
I have just come back from Italy and found food a bit disappointing when it comes to gluten-free (although I loved Venice!). My son survived on risotto and supplies brought from home (and topped up at the supermarket). I don't know how/where the Italian celiacs eat, but the menus are full of typical Italian non-gluten-free foods. There was rather a limited selection of salads (winter?) and my son doesn't eat meat at all, so it was perhaps harder that it could have been.

However, we still have plans to go to Rome: with another family we are tentatively planning a trip and we also hope to include a special audience with the Pope. This is because my friend is German and we have children with a very rare medical condition (severe light sensitivity). My son is on strict gluten-free diet and I have been concerned about the Holy Communion wafers. Only yesterday I have heard from our priest that they do in fact have gluten-free wafers available (they have provided the supplier contact in UK) and I hope "gluten-free" is not just "low gluten". I couldn't possibly take risks with gluten ataxia.
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#39 jenvan

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 05:13 AM

Sarah-
Yes, this woman in the case had positive bloodwork and biopsy. Eventually her blood work returned to normal, and much of her symptoms disappeared, but until she stopped taking the wafers, her intestinal lesions persisted.
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#40 Idahogirl

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:40 AM

Celiachap-

Your question is not new, and your perception of hell is not yours alone. But it is an inaccurate one. When "Judgement Day" comes, we will all realize that we have sinned against a Holy God, and we are all deserving of punishment. I know it seems harsh, but it's the truth. It only seems harsh, though, if you think that people are basically good. The Bible tells us that we all sin from birth (just watch kids play and you will see their selfish nature). God is Holy and we have broken His laws and offended Him. Every person who has ever lived has sinned, though we tend to downplay it, and refer to the scales ("I've done much more good than bad"). You have lied, you have hated your brethren in your heart, if only for a moment. The only way to get to heaven and enjoy God's presence is to be absolutely perfect. We are tainted by sin (thanks, Adam and Eve!) so that is not possible. But God made it possible through Jesus. He did not have to do this, but He did. We didn't deserve it one bit. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't seem right to you doesn't mean that it's not true. Your opinion will not change the truth on iota.

Hell is a place where eternal judgement and punishment occurs. There will be no administering to the poor souls there, or enjoying of the opposite sex in hell. Contrary to popular belief, there will be no "rocking out" with the Rolling Stones, and the devil does not run the place. He has also offended God and there is a place reserved for him as well.

As to your question of the validity of heaven being a wonderful place with the knowledge of loved ones being tormented in hell, I don't think anyone totally has the answer. However, the Bible does talk about the way sinners respond to God when they encounter Him. People who have not been forgiven by the blood of Jesus and remain in their sinful state would be worse off in the presence of Almighty God. The focus in heaven will not be ourselves, our lives, or our loved ones. It will be God, who is perfect in every way and is without fault. Heaven is a place where we will see God for who He truly is, and worship Him forever. We will no longer see through the same eyes, or think the way we do now.

Because I couldn't live with myself if I let one person go that "unfortunate place", I choose to tell the good news now and try to prevent it from happening. But everyone is responsible for their own soul. It may seem that people go there because of no fault of their own, but that is only an illusion. Of course, we all think we are good people who make mistakes. But according to God, we are at emnity with Him, and we live everyday in rebellion to His laws. Not everyone ever born is a child of God (except in the sense that He is the Creator of all things). We are enemies of God until we come to the Cross.

I realize that all this probably sounds like religious mumbo jumbo, but your question is valid, and is probably shared by many who think that the God of the Christians is a big meany who is unfair and unjust. But if you look a little further into it, you will discover that it is we as humans that are the offenders and have no right to gripe at God. By the way, I appreciate your honesty and sincerety! It is better to openly oppose and question, than to pretend to go along and become a bitter hipocrite.

Lisa
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#41 Jnkmnky

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:58 AM

Celiachap-

Your question is not new, and your perception of hell is not yours alone. But it is an inaccurate one. When "Judgement Day" comes, we will all realize that we have sinned against a Holy God, and we are all deserving of punishment. I know it seems harsh, but it's the truth. It only seems harsh, though, if you think that people are basically good. The Bible tells us that we all sin from birth (just watch kids play and you will see their selfish nature). God is Holy and we have broken His laws and offended Him. Every person who has ever lived has sinned, though we tend to downplay it, and refer to the scales ("I've done much more good than bad"). You have lied, you have hated your brethren in your heart, if only for a moment. The only way to get to heaven and enjoy God's presence is to be absolutely perfect. We are tainted by sin (thanks, Adam and Eve!) so that is not possible. But God made it possible through Jesus. He did not have to do this, but He did. We didn't deserve it one bit. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't seem right to you doesn't mean that it's not true. Your opinion will not change the truth on iota.

Hell is a place where eternal judgement and punishment occurs. There will be no administering to the poor souls there, or enjoying of the opposite sex in hell. Contrary to popular belief, there will be no "rocking out" with the Rolling Stones, and the devil does not run the place. He has also offended God and there is a place reserved for him as well.

As to your question of the validity of heaven being a wonderful place with the knowledge of loved ones being tormented in hell, I don't think anyone totally has the answer. However, the Bible does talk about the way sinners respond to God when they encounter Him. People who have not been forgiven by the blood of Jesus and remain in their sinful state would be worse off in the presence of Almighty God. The focus in heaven will not be ourselves, our lives, or our loved ones. It will be God, who is perfect in every way and is without fault. Heaven is a place where we will see God for who He truly is, and worship Him forever. We will no longer see through the same eyes, or think the way we do now.

Because I couldn't live with myself if I let one person go that "unfortunate place", I choose to tell the good news now and try to prevent it from happening. But everyone is responsible for their own soul. It may seem that people go there because of no fault of their own, but that is only an illusion. Of course, we all think we are good people who make mistakes. But according to God, we are at emnity with Him, and we live everyday in rebellion to His laws. Not everyone ever born is a child of God (except in the sense that He is the Creator of all things). We are enemies of God until we come to the Cross.

I realize that all this probably sounds like religious mumbo jumbo, but your question is valid, and is probably shared by many who think that the God of the Christians is a big meany who is unfair and unjust. But if you look a little further into it, you will discover that it is we as humans that are the offenders and have no right to gripe at God. By the way, I appreciate your honesty and sincerety! It is better to openly oppose and question, than to pretend to go along and become a bitter hipocrite.

Lisa


I feel that the tenor of the Catholic Church is very depressing. I'm Catholic, I practice my religion and attend church regularly, but I've elected to be optimistic when it comes to my relationship with God. I don't cling to the notion that I'm a disappointment from birth to my Father in Heaven. I wake up every day believeing he's been watching me sleep and waiting for me to wake up so that we can begin another day together. The Catholic Church needs to get over the long standing tradition of shaming it's members and start a dialogue that builds us up. I recommend the book, "Your Best Life Now", by Joel Osteen, for a more positive outlook on your individual relationship with God. Also, for any Catholics who would dispute my sideways glance into an off-shoot of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Catechism tells us not to turn our backs on the churches that have cropped up in rebellion to the Church Jesus established, but to look into them and learn what we can. There was a reason these churches were formed. The folks that broke away and gave up on the Catholic Church were wrong to not see it through, and the Catholic Church is missing out on some great growth as a result of the loss of those members. God has way more to offer us than his never-ending disappointment in our choices.
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#42 celiachap

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:21 PM

Celiachap-Your question is not new, and your perception of hell is not yours alone. But it is an inaccurate one. When "Judgement Day" comes, we will all realize that we have sinned against a Holy God, and we are all deserving of punishment. I know it seems harsh, but it's the truth. It Lisa



You do not have the slightest bit of evidence that anything you are saying is true. Neither do the priests, rabbis, mullahs, or other con-men/women that are fleecing the government and the taxpayers - not to mention the mass destruction, waste and many millions of lives that they have taken in the name of their deity.

Religion is like a cancer, and if we do not stop it soon, it's going to eat away the world from the inside out - just as celiac can do if left untreated. It's happening already, big time, and the human race is not going to get a "second chance" for a very long time, if ever, when the species is extinct due to ignorance and superstition. Your fire and brimstone is not going to happen after we’re dead – it’s going to happen as soon as some religious lunatics with beliefs like yours obtain nuclear weapons and decide that they are going to listen to their bible and take out as much of humanity as possible.
  • 0
Diagnosed with Celiac March, 2005: Positive endoscopy, blood tests and biopsy. Gluten free since March 2005.

Retested Jan. 2006: Negative blood tests: "Results do not support a diagnosis of celiac disease. Serological markers for celiac disease were not detected."

Results for 2006 endoscope/biopsy pending.


Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.
-Thomas Jefferson

Give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will but first let me eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
- Robert Green Ingersoll

#43 Jnkmnky

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:36 PM

Your fire and brimstone is not going to happen after we’re dead – it’s going to happen as soon as some religious lunatics with beliefs like yours obtain nuclear weapons and decide that they are going to listen to their bible and take out as much of humanity as possible.


People are more dangerous than any religious text. It's the deliberate perversion of religious writings by egomaniacs, *Hitler and Bin Laden to name two of the more recent lunatics* that inspire "religious" cleansing/killings. (although, I want to stress that all religions have histories of "justifiable" murder).
Religion offers more than the modern day media prefers to report. We are fed a steady stream of negative reports on all of the different religious groups. The good that they do doesn't garner the ratings preferred. Even NOT believeing in a God or Heaven or Hell, is a kind of "religion". A group of nutty atheists could rise up and *justify* slaughtering Christians to prevent more murders for "God". Just boils down to the insane reasonings of people. Can't really blame any specific deity... just the fool with the blood on his hands.
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I believe in God.

#44 celiachap

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:53 PM

People are more dangerous than any religious text. It's the deliberate perversion of religious writings by egomaniacs, *Hitler and Bin Laden to name two of the more recent lunatics* that inspire "religious" cleansing/killings. (although, I want to stress that all religions have histories of "justifiable" murder).
Religion offers more than the modern day media prefers to report. We are fed a steady stream of negative reports on all of the different religious groups. The good that they do doesn't garner the ratings preferred. Even NOT believeing in a God or Heaven or Hell, is a kind of "religion". A group of nutty atheists could rise up and *justify* slaughtering Christians to prevent more murders for "God". Just boils down to the insane reasonings of people. Can't really blame any specific deity... just the fool with the blood on his hands.



I am not "blaming" a deity - simply because there is no evidence that any such things exist.

Celiac robs the body of nutrition, vitamins, etc., as well as causing a myriad of other problems including brain fog, skin problems, even cancer – which is probably the worst result. Religion robs the mind of reason, and causes various symptoms such as guilt, hate, decadence, ignorance, perversions and other undesirable traits and behaviors.

The greatest threat to the human race is the monotheistic Abrahmic religions - and until these destructive, life destroying creeds are laid to rest, we will not have peace, or security, in the world.

You can claim that you “feel good” from the crap in the bible(s) till you’re blue in the face, but that doesn’t mean that it’s good for you. Heroin does the same thing until you get addicted, can no longer function without it, and will do almost anything to get more.
  • 0
Diagnosed with Celiac March, 2005: Positive endoscopy, blood tests and biopsy. Gluten free since March 2005.

Retested Jan. 2006: Negative blood tests: "Results do not support a diagnosis of celiac disease. Serological markers for celiac disease were not detected."

Results for 2006 endoscope/biopsy pending.


Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.
-Thomas Jefferson

Give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will but first let me eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
- Robert Green Ingersoll

#45 tarnalberry

 
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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:56 PM

Religion is like a cancer, and if we do not stop it soon, it's going to eat away the world from the inside out - just as celiac can do if left untreated. It's happening already, big time, and the human race is not going to get a "second chance" for a very long time, if ever, when the species is extinct due to ignorance and superstition. Your fire and brimstone is not going to happen after we’re dead – it’s going to happen as soon as some religious lunatics with beliefs like yours obtain nuclear weapons and decide that they are going to listen to their bible and take out as much of humanity as possible.


Interesting addendum to this one:

I happen to be atheist. (Weak atheist, meaning that I don't say "I belive there is no g/God" but I do say "I don't think there is g/God; I could be wrong, but I don't think so." More of the "don't have enough evidence to say otherwise" camp if you were comparing it to research science.) My coworkers at the least know that I'm not religious, and most of them can deduce from there. One of my coworkers, who I've talked to about morality quite a bit, noted to me one day "I didn't think you could be moral and not religious. You're the first person I've met like that." (Side note: this coworker is NOT christian.)

*THIS* I think is the problem - there's an assumption by many people that religion is where our morals come from. That religion is the only place our morals come from. And that religion is the only place our morals MUST come from. But it simply isn't true. Morality does not require religion.
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