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Vaccinations and Autoimmune Disorders


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#1 taneil

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 04:07 PM

When getting a probiotic, ask for one that is specific for babies. Because there is a special bacteria that babies have and need that adults don't have.

Also, I have done a little research and found that Autoimmune disease such as Celiac can be triggered by vaccines. You said she started getting fussy at two months, did this coincide with any vaccines? Most doctors, would not even entertain the thought, but it could be something to think about.
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Taneil
Enterolab Diagnosed May 2004
gluten-free/CF and have both genes

Psalm 27:13-14
I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living. Wait for the LORD;
Be strong and let your heart take courage; Yes, wait for the LORD.

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#2 mat4mel

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 04:35 AM

Baby-jarro dophilus is formulated especially for children under 2. You can also order it online if you can't find it locally.

ITA about the link between Celiac and vaccinations. Any kind of stress to the body can trigger Celiac, and babies are routinely given several vaccines at once.

Many children with autism are on a gluten free, casein free diet. There is a lot of evidence that autism is caused by vaccines.

You can read a lot more about childhood vaccinations at mothering.com's forums. They have a whole forum dedicated to discussion of vaccinations.

Mel
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#3 lovegrov

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 07:00 AM

I can't send you to a source but it's always been my understanding that babies this young are too little to produce the antibodies involved in celiac. It seems more likely you're looking at possible allergy here. That's not to say you shouldn't look at celiac in the future. You should.

I wouldn't even consider not getting my children vaccinated.

richard
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#4 DLayman

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 07:11 AM

She really is too young for a celiac panel.. My understanding is that they don't concider them accurate till about two years old.. The best thing to do is to keep up with the diet changes as long as they are helping her then do it. Lord knows you need sleep.
Then when you start introducing solid foods keep a food journal.. what she eats and how it effects her.. That will be your most valuable resource at this age. With a history of Celiac disease in the family you should be cautious..

As far as symtpoms go.. sleeplessnes, irratability, gassyness, watery foul pale stools, lethargy are all symptoms to look for.
I know my two year old did not sleep till he was about 15 months old.. which coincided with the time I weaned him.. He is not diagnosed yet and I am going to be talking to the doctor later today to make a case for doing the celiac panel when he is in for his latest lovely proceedure a colonoscopy..

Keep up with the diet changes.. reintroduce things slowly.. and keep a journal.. that is your best course of action right now.

Hope this helps
Denise
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#5 dana_g

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 10:41 AM

There was a HUGE study published this week that concluded that autism is not linked to vaccines. In fact mercury, longed-believed to be the "cause" of the connection between the two, isn't even being used as a preservative in today's vaccines.
Colic begins to show up at about 6-8 weeks of age. My very happy baby went through a similar suddenly miserable stage. You may want to investigate that, as celiac is all but unheard of in infants of this age, and you could be losing valuable time better spent finding out what's really wrong. I remember that it was heartbreaking not being able to help my baby, frustrating that nobody was getting any sleep, and disappointing that everybody had an opinion but nothing seemed to work. He ended up having classic colic and fortunately grew out of it.
If you are eating gas-producing vegetables like brocolli, green beans and the like, they may be contributing to the problem. I had to give up breastfeeding and go to Nutrimigen, a very costly infant formula that my son could tolerate well. Good luck! And trust your instincts! If you firmly believe that by going gluten-free you are helping your baby, it may be coincidence, or it may actually be helping...only you can make that call, and remember, you have that right!
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Gloriously gluten-free--Dana

#6 mat4mel

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 12:16 PM

It could still be Celiac. I don't know much about how accurate the testing is before age 2. If *you* noticed an improvement upon the cessation of eating gluten, then I would stick with your instincts. My 2 yr old was just diagnosed, and thinking back, she has had symptoms of Celiac for a long time.

I think the best thing to do is keep breastfeeding. Also, if there is a La Leche League group near you, that would provide great support.

As for mercury and vaccines, there is plenty of research that argues otherwise. Another good website is 909shot.com.

Mel
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#7 taneil

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 01:31 PM

Dana,

I know this isn't the place for a vaccine discussion per se, but please know that people on both sides can make statistics say anything they want. Also, money talks, and with vaccines money is a major issue.

It takes as much faith to vaccinate your child as it does to not vaccinate. That is a personal choice. And I believe that autoimmune reactions may be triggered or increased by vaccines. This is my opinion and I do not push it on others, though I want people to be informed so that they can at least consider the pro's and con's of vaccines and make an informed decision.
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Taneil
Enterolab Diagnosed May 2004
gluten-free/CF and have both genes

Psalm 27:13-14
I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living. Wait for the LORD;
Be strong and let your heart take courage; Yes, wait for the LORD.

#8 lovegrov

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 04:39 AM

I'm not going to get into a protracted vaccine discussion either, but I must take issue with the assertion that it takes just as much faith to have your child vaccinated as it does to not do it. It seems to me there's little question that the benefits far outweigh any of these suppsoed risks. Look at what vaccines have done to smallpox and polio, both of which used to be huge killers or cripplers.

richard
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#9 mat4mel

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 06:01 AM

Once again, there is plenty of research that disputes what Richard says. I say do your own research and educute before you vaccinate, especially if you or your child suffer from an autoimmune disease like Celiac. (BTW, they stopped mass vaccination of smallpox because of how dangerous the vaccine is. Many people have been vaccine damaged, so I say what taneil said is correct-- it takes faith either way.)

Mel
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#10 lovegrov

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:10 AM

We did lots of research and my wife is a nurse -- and we decided with ease to vaccinate both of our children.

As to smallpox, they stopped vaccinating because the disease was eradicated worldwide not because of reactions (yes, there were reactions, I know that). This eradication saved untold lives (death rate for the severe form was 20-30 percent) and prevented uncounted cases of disfigurement over the years. I am NOT in favor of the proposed forced smallpox vaccination program because there simply is no evidence there is any threat. I also don't agree with vaccinations for things like chickenpox, which is hardly a severe threat except to some adults who didn't have it as children.

I know that some people react to vaccinations. I'm not saying they don't. But I know that the woman across the street who's in a chair because of polio wishes that vaccine had come along a lot earlier.
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#11 dana_g

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:31 AM

I think we all have enough on our plates dealing with Celiac and I for one am not interested in trying to educate anyone about vaccinations, since it's clear there are firm opinions already formed and this really isn't the forum for it. I think we should stick with the subject at hand, if that's agreable to everyone.
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Gloriously gluten-free--Dana

#12 taneil

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 10:48 AM

I would like to add more to this topic now that it is under it's own topic.

First let me give a little family autoimmune history:
Maternal Grandfather: Type 1 Diabetes, Celiac Disease that was never dx
Maternal Aunt: celiac disease
Cousin: celiac disease
Cousins Children: celiac disease
Old Sister: Hastimoto's Hypothyroidism
Younger Sister: Asthma, getting tested for celiac disease
Myself: Asthma, Gluten Intolerance

As you can see Autoimmune disease runs in my family, and this is only what I know. Granted we are in a fallen world that will only continue to get worse until the Lord Jesus Christ returns...but to be informed about things is still of benefit. I do strongly believe God is soveriegn overall things, a person can do everything in there power to prevent something, but God is still in control. With that said I will proceed.

I give this information to inform, not to try to get you to necessarily agree with what is said. I desire for all who vaccinate or don't vaccinate to be aware of the risks of vaccinating and the risks of not vaccintating. And since most who read this board have at least one autoimmune problem (gluten intolerance), I feel this information is important.

I am a fully vaccinated 28 year old. I received all of my vaccines as a child and then in 2000 when I went to Tanzania Africa for a mission trip, I received some booster shots for Polio and Tetnaus and Diptheria. I also received new vaccines for Hep A, Hep B, Yellow Fever and Typhoid.

Had I known what I know now, I would only have taken the yellow fever shot, since it is required to get back into the U.S. after travelling to Africa. I do not know if these vaccines trigger the autoimmune response to Gluten or Hashimoto's hypothyroid, but it is possible. The following article from www.mercola.com has good information on what people need to know in order for vaccines to be used wisely. So please read and notice that it does not talk about not ever using vaccines, but using them wisely.


Vaccine Information

PHILIP F. INCAO, M.D. May 5, 1999

In order to use vaccinations wisely, we need to understand exactly how they work. Until recently, the žmechanism of actionÓ of vaccinations was always understood to be simply that they cause an increase in antibody levels (titers) against a specific disease antigen (bacterium or virus), thus preventing žinfectionÓ with that bacterial or viral antigen. In recent years science has learned that the human immune system is much more complicated than we thought. It is composed of two functional branches or compartments that may work together in a mutually cooperative way or in a mutually antagonistic way depending on the health of the individual.

One branch is the humoral immune system (or Th2 function), which primarily produces antibodies in the blood circulation as a sensing or recognizing function of the immune system to the presence of foreign antigens in the body. The other branch is the cellular or cell-mediated immune system (or Th1 function), which primarily destroys, digests and expels foreign antigens out of the body through the activity of its cells found in the thymus, tonsils, adenoids, spleen, lymph nodes and lymph system throughout the body. This process of destroying, digesting and discharging foreign antigens from the body is known as žthe acute inflammatory responseÓ and is often accompanied by the classic signs of inflammation: fever, pain, malaise and discharge of mucus, pus, skin rash or diarrhea.

These two functional branches of the immune system may be compared to the two functions in eating: tasting and recognizing the food on the one hand, and digesting the food and eliminating the food waste on the other hand. In the same way, the humoral or Th2 branch of the immune system žtastesÓ and recognizes and even remembers foreign antigens and the cellular or Th1 branch of the immune system digests and eliminates the foreign antigens from the body. But just as too much repeated tasting of food will ruin the appetite, so also too much repeated stimulation of the žtastingÓ humoral immune system by an antigen will inhibit and suppress the digesting and eliminating function of the cellular immune system. In other words, over stimulating antibody production can suppress the acute inflammatory response of the cellular immune system! 1

This explains the polar opposite relationship between acute discharging inflammations on the one hand and allergies and autoimmune inflammations on the other hand. The more a person has of one, the less he or she will have of the other! A growing number of scientists believe that the increase in America, Europe, Australia and Japan in allergic and autoimmune diseases (which stimulate the humoral or Th2 branch of the immune system) is caused by the lack of stimulation of the cellular or the Th1 branch of the immune system from the lack of acute inflammatory responses and discharges in childhood. 2, 3, 4, 5 We need to identify the factors which cause this shift in the function of the immune system or which cause allergies and autoimmune diseases in childhood to increase!

If we now return to the original question of the mechanism of action of vaccinations, we find what I believe is the key to the puzzle. A vaccination consists of introducing a disease agent or disease antigen into an individualŪs body without causing the disease. If the disease agent provoked the whole immune system into action it would cause all the symptoms of the disease! The symptoms of a disease are primarily the symptoms (fever, pain, malaise, loss of function) of the acute inflammatory response to the disease.

So the trick of a vaccination is to stimulate the immune system just enough so that it makes antibodies and žremembersÓ the disease antigen but not so much that it provokes an acute inflammatory response by the cellular immune system and makes us sick with the disease weŪre trying to prevent! Thus a vaccination works by stimulating very much the antibody production (Th2) and by stimulating very little or not at all the digesting and discharging function of the cellular immune system (Th1). Vaccine antigens are designed to be unprovocative or žindigestibleÓ for the cellular immune system (Th1) and highly stimulating for the antibody-mediated humoral immune system (Th2).

Perhaps it is not difficult to see then why the repeated use of vaccinations would tend to shift the functional balance of the immune system toward the antibody-producing side (Th2) and away from the acute inflammatory discharging side (the cell-mediated side or Th1). This has been confirmed by observation especially in the case of Gulf War Illness: MOST VACCINATIONS CAUSE a SHIFT in IMMUNE FUNCTION from the Th1 side (acute inflammatory discharging response) TO the Th2 side (CHRONIC AUTO-IMMUNE or ALLERGIC RESPONSE). 6

The outcome of this line of thought is that, contrary to previous belief; vaccinations do not strengthen or žboostÓ the whole immune system. Instead vaccinations over stimulate the žtasting and rememberingÓ function of the antibody-mediated branch of the immune system (Th2), which simultaneously suppresses the cellular immune system (Th1) thus žpreventingÓ the disease in question.

WHAT in reality IS PREVENTED IS NOT the DISEASE BUT the ABILITY of our CELLULAR IMMUNE SYSTEM to MANIFEST, to RESPOND to and to OVERCOME the DISEASE!

There is no system of the human being, from mind to muscles to immune system, which gets stronger through avoiding challenges, but only through overcoming challenges. The WISE USE of VACCINATIONS would be to USE THEM SELECTIVELY, and NOT ON a MASS SCALE. In order for vaccinations to be helpful and not harmful, we must know beforehand in each individual to be vaccinated whether the Th1 function or the Th2 function of the immune system predominates.

In individuals, in whom the Th1 function predominates, causing many acute inflammations because the cellular immune system is over reactive, a vaccination could have a balancing effect on the immune system and be helpful for that individual. In individuals, in whom the Th2 function predominates, causing few acute inflammations but rather the tendency to chronic allergic or autoimmune inflammations, a vaccination would cause the Th2 function to predominate even more, aggravating the imbalance of the immune system and harming the health of that individual. This is what happened in Gulf War Illness.

The current use of vaccinations in medicine today is essentially a žshotgunÓ approach that ignores differences among individuals. In such an approach some individuals may be helped and others may be harmed. If medicine is to evolve in a healthy direction, we must learn to understand the particular characteristics of each individual and we must learn how to individualize our treatments to be able to heal each unique human being in our care.

VACCINATIONS are usually effective in preventing an individual from manifesting a particular illness, but they DO NOT IMPROVE the overall STRENGTH or HEALTH of the individual nor of the immune system. Instead, VACCINATIONS MODIFY the REACTIVITY of the IMMUNE SYSTEM, decreasing acute discharging inflammatory reactions and INCREASING the TENDENCY to CHRONIC ALLERGIC and AUTO-IMMUNE REACTIONS.

Epidemiologic studies 7 8 9 have shown that as families improve their living conditions, hygiene, nutrition, literacy and education, the risk of life-threatening acute infectious , inflammatory diseases very much decreases. Families with poor living conditions, hygiene, nutrition and literacy would generally be most likely to benefit from vaccinations. Families with good living conditions, hygiene, nutrition and education probably would benefit from vaccinations very little or not at all. Individuals with a tendency to allergic or autoimmune diseases are LIKELY to BE HARMED BY VACCINATIONS.

SIDE EFFECTS of VACCINATION are usually ALLERGIC or AUTOIMMUNE inflammatory reactions caused by the shift of the immune systemŪs reactivity from the Th1 side to the Th2 side. Modern medicine is just beginning to recognize this. 10 Modern MEDICINE HAS NOT SCIENTIFICALLY MEASURED the RISK/BENEFIT RATIO of ANY VACCINE. 11 Research into the risks of vaccines is very inadequate, according to two comprehensive reports on vaccines by the U.S. Institute of Medicine in 1991 and 1994.

My preceding explanation of how vaccinations affect the immune system is true also in animals. Vaccinations cannot make animals healthier, but only good handling, environment and nutrition can make animals healthy and resistant to disease. Vaccinating pigs may prevent them from having illness from one particular strain of virus but will not improve their overall resistance to other illnesses nor even to other strains of the same virus.

It is important to remember that an infection with a particular virus or bacterium does not necessarily cause illness unless the resistance of the individual is low. In the case of Japanese Encephalitis Virus (JEV), most infections cause no symptoms and less than 0.1% of infected individuals develop severe encephalitis. 12 Individuals living in poor conditions, with poor hygiene, nutrition and education are at higher risk of serious illnesses from JEV or any other infection. In such individuals a vaccination would most likely be helpful.

VERY OFTEN the MEDIA EXAGGERATE the EXTENT of such outbreaks. Each individual should freely decide, based on knowledge and not on fear and hearsay, whether he or she or a child would benefit from a vaccination.

References

1 Parish, C.R. "The Relationship Between Humoral and Cell-Mediated Immunity." Transplant. Rev. 13 (1972):3.

2 Ronne, T. "Measles Virus Infection without Rash in Childhood is Related to Disease in Adult Life." The Lancet Ltd. (1985):1-5.

3 Odent, M.R., Culpin, E.E., Kimmel, T. "Pertussis Vaccination and Asthma: Is There a Link The Journal of the American Medical Association 272(1994):588.

4 Cookson, W.O.C.M., and Moffatt, M.F. "Asthma: An Epidemic in the Absence of Infection?" Science 275(1997):41-42.

5 Martinez, F.D. Role of viral infections in the inception of asthma and allergies during childhood: could they be protective? Thorax 1994;49: 1189-91.

6 Rook, G.A.W., Zumla, A. "Gulf War Syndrome: Is It Due to a Systemic Shift in Cytokine Balance Towards a Th2 Profile?" The Lancet 349 (1997): 1831-1833.

7 McKeown, T. The Modern Rise of Population. New York: Academic Press, 1976.

8 McKeown, T. The Role Of Medicine: Dream, Mirage, or Nemesis? New Jersey: Princeton University Press 1979.

9 Sagan, L.A. The Health of Nations. New York: Basic Books, Inc., 1987.

10 Rook, G.A.W., Zumla, A. "Gulf War Syndrome: Is It Due to a Systemic Shift in Cytokine Balance Towards a Th2 Profile?" The Lancet 349 (1997): 1831-1833.

11 Robin, Eugene, M.D. "Some Hidden Dimensions of the Risk/Benefit Value of Vaccine" from the First International Public Conference on Vaccination. Alexandria, Virginia September 1997.

12 Solomon, T., Kneen, R., Dung, N.G., Khanh, V.C., Thuy, T.T.N., Ha, D.Q., Day, N.P.J., Nisalak, A., Vaughn, D.W., White, N.J. "Poliomyelitis-like illness due to Japanese encephalitis virus" Lancet 1998; 351: 1094-97

©Copyright 2004 Dr. Joseph Mercola. All Rights Reserved. This content may be copied in full, with copyright, contact, creation and information intact, without specific permission, when used only in a not-for-profit format. If any other use is desired, permission in writing from Dr. Mercola is required.

I personally believe that having an autoimmune disease such as Gluten Intolerance should raise the question of whether one should vaccinate or not. And if one chooses to vaccinate, how to best vaccinate (i.e. a lot of antigens at once or spreading the shots out over more time than the current "Schedule of Vaccines" says.) My children are mine, and it is my responsiblity to determine if and how to get them vaccinated, regardless of what my doctor may or may not think. If that means finding a different doctor then I will do and have done just that.

P.S. Polio was mentioned...did you know that there was a group of scientists trying to study polio by injecting rabbits with the virus, but they would not get the disease until sugar was introduced into there diets. An article at this link tells how sugar increases risk of polio. http://www.mercola.c...polio_sugar.htm
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Taneil
Enterolab Diagnosed May 2004
gluten-free/CF and have both genes

Psalm 27:13-14
I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living. Wait for the LORD;
Be strong and let your heart take courage; Yes, wait for the LORD.

#13 plantime

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 05:37 AM

Regarding the chickenpox vaccine: If you choose to have your child immunized against chickenpox (varicella), your child must then receive the vaccine at regular intervals FOR THE REST OF HIS/HER LIFE. A good bout of chickenpx itself, for a CHILD, may leave a few small scars but for the most part is not going to do permanent damage. Everything I have read said that the vaccine was actually so parents would not have to miss a week or two of work to take care of their sick child.

Most people are familiar with the saying "She has the complexion of a milkmaid." What most people do not know, is that this saying originated immediately after the great smallpox epidemics in Europe. The milkmaids always had cowpox scars on their hands, but having had the cowpox, their immune systems were able to fight off the smallpox without any problems. They did not get the huge pock-mark scars that survivors of smallpox had. Hence the saying.

I take this bit of history as an example that our bodies can handle most of the big stuff, if we allow our bodies to "practice" on the little stuff. Since much of the little stuff that is essential to build this arsenal is just not there anymore, my kids have had their vaccines, but not hepatitis, chickenpox, or influenza. They will have to decide for themselves about hepatitis, have all had good cases of chickenpox, and should be able to deal with influenza without too much problem. (my immune system is slightly compromised, and I came through a bout of influenza with no problem, so my very healthy children should, too. My kids are teens, btw.)

Any way, that is my two cents about vaccines.

Oh, anyone allergic to eggs probably should not have them, because most of them are cultured in egg, and will cause a reaction.
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Dessa

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