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More Deaths For Caesarean Babies


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#16 GFBetsy

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:21 AM

My third birth was a typical "first birth": 13 hours of active labour (24 hours of labour in total) with back labour, 2.5 hours of pushing and a compound presentation birth (daughter's hand on her cheek.) My midwives were great for helping me get my daughter turned during labour (lunges on the stairs, hands and knees position & hip squeeze, etc) and were tough when I needed them to be. It would have been very easy to give up and go to hospital for pain relief, but we all knew that it would end in another unnecessary c/s.

Michelle


It surprises me that you had midwives that were willing to do VBAC after 2 c-sections. Here (in Utah) they won't let you do VBAC after 2 c sections because of the increased risk of tearing your uterus. Midwives won't touch you.
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#17 2kids4me

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:36 AM

and then there is the other side of the story - I have 2 friends where c-section was put off...for too long. In each case baby was born by emerg section - after the heartbeat had stopped. Both babies resucitated but have severe CP.
My own birth with first daughter was almost a tragedy - resident insisting everything was fine...but an alert nurse kept her eye on the fetal HR and was watching the decelerations increase with each push. Against the residents's wishes, she called the OB who had just come out of O.R and he pushed the resident away, did immediate episiotomy and forceps delvery - even with that she was only 4 on the Apgar and was rushed to ICU. An earlier intervention (either C-section of forcep) would have saved some heartache.

I read somehwere that C-sections went up for a number of reasons, one was the woman electing to have it and others where doctors afraid of lawsuits would rather do a c-sections early than wait til it becomes urgent.
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Sandy

Type 1 diabetes - 1986
hypothyroid -1993
pernicious anemia
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retinopathy
daughter is: age 15
central hypotonia and developmental delay
balance issues (rides an adult 3 wheel bike)
hypothyroid 1996
dermatographia - a form of angioedema 2002
celiac 2004 - by endoscopy
diagnosed Aspergers at age 7 - responded very well (HUGE difference) to gluten-free diet
recovered from Kawasaki (2003)
lactose intolerant - figured out in Oct/06
Gilberts syndrome (April/07)
allergy to stinging insects
scoliosis Jan 2008
nightshade intolerance - figured out April 2008
allergy to Sulfa antibiotics

son is 13
type 1 diabetic - 2003 diagnosed on his 9th birthday
celiac - 2004 by endoscopy
lactose intolerant - figured out Nov/06

#18 gfp

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:47 AM

and then there is the other side of the story - I have 2 friends where c-section was put off...for too long. In each case baby was born by emerg section - after the heartbeat had stopped. Both babies resucitated but have severe CP.
My own birth with first daughter was almost a tragedy - resident insisting everything was fine...but an alert nurse kept her eye on the fetal HR and was watching the decelerations increase with each push. Against the residents's wishes, she called the OB who had just come out of O.R and he pushed the resident away, did immediate episiotomy and forceps delvery - even with that she was only 4 on the Apgar and was rushed to ICU. An earlier intervention (either C-section of forcep) would have saved some heartache.

I read somehwere that C-sections went up for a number of reasons, one was the woman electing to have it and others where doctors afraid of lawsuits would rather do a c-sections early than wait til it becomes urgent.

The new study is apparently the numbers reworked for elective C-section not medically advised and excluding other factors that skew it.

In the light of recent threads i thought it somewhat ironic that MSbP is somewhat defined by for instance cot deaths and it seems your at higher risk of cot death with a C-section!

Certainly it looks like of you have a history of respitory problems it might be something to take into account.
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#19 eKatherine

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:00 PM

Essentially, the human body won't grow a baby that's too big, and given the right birth position, the birth canal is designed to birth big babies. :)

Unfortunately it does happen, but not nearly as often as we are led to think.

When I was pregnant 24 years ago, I read studies about this same thing, and naysayers were raising questions about the ballooning CS rate even back then.

I had a natural birth with no anesthetic, just a little novocaine to sew up a small tear. I was very hard case.
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#20 Michi8

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:07 PM

It surprises me that you had midwives that were willing to do VBAC after 2 c-sections. Here (in Utah) they won't let you do VBAC after 2 c sections because of the increased risk of tearing your uterus. Midwives won't touch you.


Unfortunately, the medical establishment has too much control over midwives, and in turn, too much control over a woman's choice over how and where to birth.

I live in Alberta, and there were no medical reasons to force me into a hospital. I had textbook recoveries from both my cesareans and had healthy pregnancies each time. The risk of uterine rupture is extremely small, and there are signs to watch for in terms of scar separation long before a rupture occurs. An undrugged mother will experience signs of pain during labour (and probably before labour) that would indicate a need to transfer to hospital. Note that induction with prostaglandins increases the risk of rupture, and should never be used during VBAC. Induction is never used in a homebirth. A VBAC is still a safer birth for both mother and baby than a repeat cesarean section.

Here is a fact sheet about c/s: http://www.ican-onli...csfactsheet.pdf Here is a fact sheet about VBAC: http://www.ican-onli...p_vbac-fact.pdf And an article about the risks of VBAC and risks of CS: http://www.ican-onli...wp_vbaclash.pdf

Michelle

Unfortunately it does happen, but not nearly as often as we are led to think.

When I was pregnant 24 years ago, I read studies about this same thing, and naysayers were raising questions about the ballooning CS rate even back then.

I had a natural birth with no anesthetic, just a little novocaine to sew up a small tear. I was very hard case.


Yes, it can happen, but it's usually due to other medical issues such as gestational diabetes. Even then, I know of mothers who had 11 pound babies vaginally.

Michelle
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#21 CarlaB

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:50 PM

and big heads do run in both sides of the family.

My husband has a big head, he can never find a hat that fits. I joke with my daughters that they already have the big head gene, on the second date with a guy, they need to give him a hat ... if it's too small, it's the last date!! :lol:
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#22 elye

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:30 PM

I'm in Ontario, where pretty much across the province our healthcare system is now deeply flawed. Our rate of C sections is also up considerably (I was lucky enough to have two great, uncomplicated natural deliveries) and the very worst part about this is the fact that because there's no money in our system, patients are being pushed out of the hospital FAR too early, often at great risk to their health. My girlfriend had a complicated C section last winter and was sent home 48 hours later. She ended up back in ER a week later...no surprise. This is a terrible state of affairs, and with C sections costing the government a whole lot more than a natural birth, it amazes me that our rate is so high.
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Emily

diagnosed type one diabetic 1973
diagnosed celiac winter 2005
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But healthy and happy! Posted Image


11 year-old Son had negative blood panel, but went on gluten-free diet of his own volition to see if his concentration would improve, his temper abate, and his energy level would increase. Miraculous response!

The great are great only because we are on our knees.
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#23 Michi8

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:40 PM

I'm in Ontario, where pretty much across the province our healthcare system is now deeply flawed. Our rate of C sections is also up considerably (I was lucky enough to have two great, uncomplicated natural deliveries) and the very worst part about this is the fact that because there's no money in our system, patients are being pushed out of the hospital FAR too early, often at great risk to their health. My girlfriend had a complicated C section last winter and was sent home 48 hours later. She ended up back in ER a week later...no surprise. This is a terrible state of affairs, and with C sections costing the government a whole lot more than a natural birth, it amazes me that our rate is so high.


I think that healthcare is flawed in most provinces. Alberta won't fund midwives, although the studies show they can save the healthcare system a lot of money. OTOH, when a woman hires a midwife here, her money works well for her, since the government has less say in what the midwife can and can't do. I had a less than positive midwife experience when I lived in BC...attempted a homebirth VBAC for my second birth, but the midwives weren't really acting in my best interest and were eager to move me to hospital when I found I wasn't comfortable staying at home. Then the cascade of inventions started. :( I believe the fact that they're gov't funded, and I had to agree to be a part of the homebirth study that the protocols they followed weren't truly favourable for VBAC.

In terms of recovering from c/s, the decision of when to go home should be looked at in a case-by-case manner. 48 hours may be too little time for returning home after a primary c/s, but 4 days felt like an eternity with my secondary c/s and I probably would have done better emotionally if I could have left after 2 days.

Michelle
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#24 penguin

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 02:38 PM

Michelle
Yes, it can happen, but it's usually due to other medical issues such as gestational diabetes. Even then, I know of mothers who had 11 pound babies vaginally.

Michelle



My sister couldn't deliver vag. She's 5'2'', with a narrow pelvis. She had two 11lb babies, and never even went into labor with either of them, because they couldn't drop far enough. She never even dialated. She did not have gestational diabetes, we just have huge babies in the family. My grandfather was over 11lbs, and my brother's twins were 6lbs EACH (they were vag).

My sister did have one baby that was "normal" sized at 9 lbs, and even went into labor! She opted for the c-section, though. She wasn't supposed to get pregnant again, because the first two took such a toll on her body. The second one nearly broke her hip, and the third one gave her a hernia. She's just too little to have such giants. I'm not looking forward to pregnancy, I'm 4 inches taller than her! :blink:
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Alright, don't worry even if things end up a bit too heavy
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#25 Michi8

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 02:48 PM

My sister couldn't deliver vag. She's 5'2'', with a narrow pelvis. She had two 11lb babies, and never even went into labor with either of them, because they couldn't drop far enough. She never even dialated. She did not have gestational diabetes, we just have huge babies in the family. My grandfather was over 11lbs, and my brother's twins were 6lbs EACH (they were vag).

My sister did have one baby that was "normal" sized at 9 lbs, and even went into labor! She opted for the c-section, though. She wasn't supposed to get pregnant again, because the first two took such a toll on her body. The second one nearly broke her hip, and the third one gave her a hernia. She's just too little to have such giants. I'm not looking forward to pregnancy, I'm 4 inches taller than her! :blink:


It's a shame that your sister's experiences would make you worried about pregnancy. Every person and pregnancy is different. A narrow pelvis is also not an indicator of a body's ability to birth, because ligaments loosen and are designed to stretch...I'm only 5'3" and have a narrow pelvis too, and had an almost 10 pounder with little trouble. The bigger issue for me was since I'm so short, I don't have a lot of room to carry big babies, and tend to have malpresentations (breech, asynclitic, compound presentations)...plus I get as big as a house during pregnancy. :)

Michelle
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#26 penguin

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 02:51 PM

It's a shame that your sister's experiences would make you worried about pregnancy. Every person and pregnancy is different. A narrow pelvis is also not an indicator of a body's ability to birth, because ligaments loosen and are designed to stretch...I'm only 5'3" and have a narrow pelvis too, and had an almost 10 pounder with little trouble. The bigger issue for me was since I'm so short, I don't have a lot of room to carry big babies, and tend to have malpresentations (breech, asynclitic, compound presentations)...plus I get as big as a house during pregnancy. :)

Michelle



I'm not worried about pregnancy at all! Big babies run in the family...I know I won't have little babies, that's all.
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Alright, don't worry even if things end up a bit too heavy
We'll all float on, alright
Well we'll float on good news is on the way...

#27 chrissy

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 03:42 PM

i've delivered 9 children (eight different deliveries). first was a normal vaginal delivery with no complications. the second was a double footling breech presentation----and i delivered her vaginally and it nearly killed her---she had a prolapsed cord, one arm got stuck on my pubic bone, her head and arm were jammed in the birth canal pressing off her cord. any idea what it feels like to have a baby's head and arm stuck, and then have a doctor reach his hand in there, too, to loosen the arm? he came in my room later and told me he was sorry for hurting me. i should have had a c-section. third delivery ended up in an emergency c-section without anesthesia. my son would have died if there had not been a monitor to let them see what was happening during the attempted normal delivery. fourth delivery was my twins. early labor was stopped at 6 weeks, but i ended up with a c-section at 36 weeks because one baby quit growing. the next delivery was v-bac without incident. the next delivery was v-bac, but there was a temporary complication and doc thought he might have to section me. next delivery was v-bac and was a very difficult delivery. baby had to be taken with forceps and i broke my tailbone. the last delivery we planned a v-bac----all of my v-bacs were induced a week early----they could see the baby was in trouble before induction was even begun---another emergency c-section, cord three times around baby's neck, baby had to be resuscitated and my uterus tore after she was delivered. i seem to be the exception to the statistics people keep giving and i've done the things that people say you shouldn't do, and i've had the things happen that people say rarely happen.

i'm glad my doc was willing to let me try v-bac after 2 sections. i'm glad he induced me early for my v-bacs.
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#28 cgilsing

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:09 PM

i've delivered 9 children (eight different deliveries).


:o :o :o Girl! How do you get through the day!!!! You have got to be running your feet off!! I thought I was busy with one! :P
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#29 CarlaB

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:18 PM

:o :o :o Girl! How do you get through the day!!!! You have got to be running your feet off!! I thought I was busy with one! :P

I have six ... I'm guessing her answer will be the same as mine ... you are busier with one. Two is the hardest. After that, it's easy!! All my kids are helpers because they have to be. I certainly can't run a household alone! They all know how to clean and do laundry -- or at least part of those tasks. We all pitch in and work together so we can all play together!! It's fun!
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#30 Lollie

 
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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:00 PM

I just have two, but I had them both with mid-wives totally natural. It was a wonderful experience and I hope that one day I can be a dula or a mid-wife, and be able to help other women have the wonderful type of experience I had.

My first was a long labor on the hottest day of the year in TX. The air conditioning broke and I pushed for a good 3 hours. But my little girl was born and she was totally alert and healthy, she just looked all around. I, unfortunately, got dehydrated from the heat and I think that's why my labor took soooo long. I also hemoridged after the delivery....But the mid wife was able to handle it and got the bleeding stopped. I never had to go to the hospital.

My second was a wonderful experience. I felt like I was totally in control the whole time. I walked through the first half of my labor and the second half was in a tub. I had to get out of the water for the delivery due to my history of hemoridging. Good thing, her cord was wrapped around her neck. Again, the mid wife was able to handle it and she was fine. Alert and nursing in no time.

Child birth should be the kind of experience that is welcoming to that new little person. I hate how the medical world has made it a procedure instead of a natural process. I am thankful that the hospital and docs are there for women who need them, when there are complications. But, not every birth has to be text book. Every woman is different and every birth is different. And one last thing......I hate it when the doc's say they delivered the baby. All they do is stand there and wait. My husband caught both of our daughters, but I delivered them.

Lollie
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