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Gf Gluten Steaks


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15 replies to this topic

#1 Forty320

 
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Posted 29 July 2004 - 08:33 PM

My family has a huge tradition of having something called Gluten (vege noobs call gluten steaks) as the main dish at Thanksgiving Dinner. Since last thanksgiving, I have been diagnosed with celiac disease. Has anyone heard of this gluten, and does anyone know of a gluten-free alternative to it? I've been thinking of using processed eggs to somehow simulate the texture, but have not been able to come up with anything to create the flavour. The family recipe uses soy sauce for a significant influence on the taste, but I've been told to avoid soy sauce. :huh:
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#2 lovegrov

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 06:12 AM

I'm really confused as to what you're talking about. Can you tell us what's in this? What's vege noobs?

I can answer one thing. You do not have to stay away from soy sauce completely, but you do have to check. Some have wheat and some don't. In the U.S. LaChoy, Kroger and Agnostura are gluten-free. So is the wheat-free San J tamari (they also make one with wheat so read the label).

richard
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#3 Forty320

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 06:53 AM

All my life, I have been a part of making what we call "gluten" as a huge part of our Thanksgiving Dinner. What I did basically is I would take white wheat flour and mix it with water. I would mix it in the mixer until I got a certain lump of thick dough. I would let the dough set for about a half hour or an hour, then I would soak it in a tub of cold water for about a half our or an hour. Then, I would change the water and squish the dough around, washing out the starch. I would continue changing water and washing starch until the water came out clear (no more starch). At that point, I would roll the dough out into a log, and let it drip out the water while I prepared a stock made of soy sauce and V8 juice, sometimes tomato juice or different canned vegetables. I would put this all in a huge kettle, and bring it to a boil. I would cut the log of dough into bite-sized slices (about 2 US tablespoons or so), and drop them into the boiling stock. These pieces would grow while they were boiling, and when they were done, I would fish out all the pieces and put them in jars, put stock in the jars with the gluten, and stuck them in the refrigerator until Thanksgiving Day, normally about 5 days, but sometimes 1 when we weren't on the ball. On that day, we would take the gluten out of the jars and coat them on each side with wheat flour, then fry them in pan spray (oil before pan spray was invented). The flour would cake to the gluten because it was wet before it was fried, and when the flour began to look brown, we would turn them over, and when that did the same, we stacked them up on a large platter. We would eat them fresh and hot. Some people put katchup on them. They are completely flexable so you can bend them end to end, but they have bits of crisp skin from being fried, and the interior is juicy, filled with stock. They are kind of different shades of brown, but I don't care what colour my substitutes are ;) Oh, and vege noobs are what I call people who do not come from a family that has been vegetarian for several generations. These people often find it necissary to apply meat-equivalent names to their foods, and differenciate in their designations. For example, what we call gluten, they call vegetarian gluten steaks. What we call weiners, they call vegetarian hot dogs. What we call burgers, they call vegetarian hamburger patties. We all know what we're talking about, but it doesn't take us as long to say it. I don't blame them since they were brought up in a meat-eater's world. I really have no clue what all those meat-eaters are talking about when they speak of all their different kinds of meat. If I were to become a meat-eater, I would have a lot to learn. However, that is not an option for me. :)
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#4 lovegrov

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 07:17 AM

I think I understand a little better anyway, although I'm a confirmed carnivore. As I said my first post, you can indeed have soy sauce, you just have to make sure it doesn't have wheat. Kikkoman DOES have wheat. in addition, V8 is gluten-free. Your problem, of course, is the flour part. I have yet to find a gluten-free flour or bread that has to same texture OR taste as wheat flour/bread.

You might try Chebe mix with this. If you don't know what I'm talking about look online at www.chebe.com. It will not have the same taste or texture, but it might work.

richard
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#5 tarnalberry

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 08:45 AM

I've got a decent idea what you're talking about - it sounds like what you're making is very much like seitan. Which is pretty much all about the gluten. The problem is that gluten-free flours tend to be fairly low in protein, because it's the protein we have a problem with. :-) Since this type of thing is all about the protein, you might try using high protein gluten-free flours. I don't think bean flour would be a good idea, since it would taste rather odd, but if you've got the time/money to give it a try, why not! :-) Quinoa flour is fairly high in protein, for gluten-free breads, but it may also have an odd taste. Amaranth flour might also be worth a shot. I don't recall millet flour or sorgum flour or tapioca flour having much protein, and I know rice flour and potato flour don't. If you can figure out if you can have oats (what with them being controversial and all), then oats have a fairly high protein content that would probably work very well, but that's only if you can tolerate oats and get uncontaminated ones.
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Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"
Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy
G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004
Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me
Bellevue, WA

#6 Forty320

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 09:08 AM

One of my problems with this is the fact that the process of making "gluten" (not to be confused with gluten -- I know this is really confusing for people who aren't familliar with the dish called gluten as apposed to the strands we must avoid) would probably simply saturate the dough to death with substitute flours. Also, this is basically for one day of the year, and I can survive one day on which I probably have never obsorbed many nutrients due to eating way to much on that day, as well as eating pies and all kinds of holiday foods (well known for being nutritionally deficient). I will have to look up this "seitan" you mentioned to see if it is similar to gluten. If so, maybe I can find an alternative to it more easily, and simply adapt the recipe! :D
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#7 tarnalberry

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 09:11 AM

seitan is specifically made from wheat flour (and usually additional vital wheat gluten) so is DEFINITELY NOT gluten-free! :-)

the thing with using substitute flours is that with the lower protein content, and the rinsing process you describe, you're unlikely to get much out. they contain so much starch that most everything will be washed away. the product that you're making relies on the protein in the flour to stick together - chemically speaking, you're creating a big ball of protein :-) - and that's the whole problem with gluten-free flours and bread making - they don't have the protein structure that gives the texture we're "used" to.

there's a professional chef on here who might have a few other ideas... if you're just vegetarian and not vegan, I could see adding a fair amount of egg whites (protein) to the dough could be effective, or perhaps gelatin (protein). perhaps even milk powder... I'm trying to think of any other protein sources that would work....
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Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"
Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy
G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004
Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me
Bellevue, WA

#8 Forty320

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 09:15 AM

I looked up seitan, and it sounds like an adaptable alternative. I've copied down a recipe, and I'll be experimenting with different types of gluten-free flours :P Thanks for the idea!!!

-Dan
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#9 Forty320

 
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Posted 30 July 2004 - 09:24 AM

I was in the process of becoming vegan when I learned I had celiac disease, and I tried for a while, then gave up. I'm vegetarian, and I think I've been one much too long to know how to live as a vegan restricted to a gluten free diet. My family has been vegetarian for as far back as anyone can remember. We have vegetarian recipes coming from generations ago, since before our family ever heard of a place other than Europe. (Part of my family is in America, while another part is in Australia. I hear there is some in Europe still, but I don't know them.)

Yeah, this recipe I found doesn't have a washing process in it, so there is the possibility of simply swapping out for a gluten-free flour. And you're right, I may very well need to add in a bunch of egg product to get it to feel right, and obsorb the stock flavour correctly.

Oh, you don't know what a help you've been! :D :D

- Dan
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#10 Forty320

 
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Posted 31 July 2004 - 10:22 AM

I asked La Choy if they had gluten in their soy sauce, and here is their response: "We are sorry to inform you that we do not have a source that lists the gluten content of our products. However, our product labels list common allergens; such as wheat, for those allergic to wheat gluten." This does not address gluten from other sources.

- Dan
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#11 tarnalberry

 
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Posted 31 July 2004 - 10:48 AM

The problem with La Choy, to put it nicely, is that it sucks. :lol:

I know I'm a food snob and all, but it's ... bleck!

San-J makes a wheat free tamari that is gluten free (grey label) that is of good quality. It may be harder to find in regular markets than La Choy, but larger stores and health food stores (like Wild Oats/Whole Foods) carry it.
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Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"
Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy
G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004
Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me
Bellevue, WA

#12 lovegrov

 
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Posted 01 August 2004 - 10:37 AM

You're not going to find barley, rye or oats in hidden in soy sauce. Wheat is the problem there, and as far as I've found it's always been clearly listed.

richard
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#13 sunflower

 
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Posted 02 August 2004 - 01:38 AM

Forty320,

I am not a vegetarian and being Celiac since I was born, I have little experience with normal gluten flours, so I don't know what the "gluten" you described could taste. Still, your description of the dish made me think of Japanese food called "mochi" - if I got your description right they could (?) have the same texture (???) Actually, mochi is rather like a very sticky dough made of a special type of rice that is more sticky than other kinds of rice (well, I guess it has lots of starch in it, but who knows?). They are sold in bite sized, dried pieces (round or cuboid) that you can either boil in water or heat in an oven-toaster (the second way makes them grow a bit and get brown and crunchy on the outside and very soft and gummy in the inside). I guess you could try frying them in oil, though I have never done it. They come with no flavor, it's just 100% rice, so you can flavor them as you like, either with gluten-free soy sauce or with sweet toppings (the Japanese eat mochi, among other things, with sweet red bean paste and sesame seeds, which is a combination that I could die for, though it has LOTS of calories!). I have no idea if the taste is even remotely the same as your "gluten", but I thought you might want to give it a try if you can find any shop selling Japanese food ingredients (I don't live in the US, so I have no idea about availability of this kind of food there).
Good luck!
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#14 Forty320

 
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Posted 04 August 2004 - 07:12 AM

Sorry it has been such a long time since I have replied to these. A few days ago, the power went out here for about an hour for no known reason. When it came on again, our internet connection equipment was no longer working. We had to buy more. Then, since technology has changed so much since last time this happened, I had to spend hours on the phone with tech support.

I have come up with a recipe, and I let my mom try a piece to be sure I wasn't fooling myself, and she said it is exactly like gluten! To answer a couple questions, gluten alone has no taste at all. We use vegetables and soy sauce or vejex to make the taste. Also, there are a lot of Japanese, Thai, and other Asian stores around here. I'm not concerned with nutritional content of my recipe due to the fact that I eat it one day every year. I know one of you said you are not from the US, so I'll explain. You may already know, so don't be offended; I'm just trying to be informative. Here in the US, we have a holiday called Thanksgiving. The traditional celebration is to eat a large meal. Back in the old days, it used to take place just after the harvest, but now days, most people just go to the store. Anyway, among vegetarians in the community I belong to, the big dish in the middle of the table contains this stuff called Gluten. Meat eaters have a great big turkey in the middle of their table. Some people call the day Turkey Day.

Well, if anyone wants to know, my "gluten" recipe is based on the use of eggs, arriolet powder, home-canned vegetable purée, and I got brave and put la choy soy sauce in it. I wasn't online, so I wasn't able to read one of your posts stating that wheat would be the only gluten to find its day into soy sauce, so it was purely an act of faith. Now, I am relieved :) I fried it in canning rings, coated it in more vegetable purée and soy sauce, then sorico powder, and fried it again in oil. I had no adverse reactions when I ate it, so I guess I did it right! If anyone wants the recipe, I want to test my proportional adjustment to make sure I scaled it up correctly, then I can stick it up on here.

- Dan
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#15 midnightlullaby

 
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Posted 04 August 2004 - 10:08 AM

In response to sunflower about the mochi: there is a vegan restaurant here in portland that makes an amazing gluten-free mochi pizza. I don't have the recipe, but I can guess since mochi is so sticky and doughy after being baked, it makes a purrfect pizza crust.
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