It's Easier To Cheat...

[Shalia]

OK, since I've just figured out teh soy thing, I've cheated twice already. I don't know what's wrong with me. I've been gluten-free for 2+ months and had one cheating, and soy (lite, can't honestly say free) for four DAYS and cheated twice. It's too easy to cheat on soy!

How do I convince myself to take this just as seriously as gluten? I'm really really struggling here.

Shalia

[frenchiemama]

How do I convince myself to take this just as seriously as gluten? I'm really really struggling here.

Shalia

If you figure it out, let me know. I fully admit to cheating with dairy and soy. I know my symptoms and I know that I can live with it, so it's hard for me to always say no. 99% of the time I am totally soy and dairy free, but last month I bought a homemade gluten-free cheesecake at the farmers market (it was divine and I'm not sorry that I did it) and last night I went out for sushi and used (gluten-free) soy sauce (I just can't have sushi without soy sauce).

I guess the way I see it, once in a while isn't going to kill me. Now gluten is a different story; I am 100% dedicated to being gluten-free and I would never consider cheating. But the other stuff...it's harder because I don't see as much of a negative impact (short term or long term).

[tiffjake]

I know, for me, that my secondary intolerances (second to celiac disease) are not nearly as severe as gluten. So, sweet potoato, for example, will give me a bloated feeling, and a headache, but I might put up with that to enjoy one. But gluten? No way! It is not worth it. I rarely have those "other" things, mostly because they are things that are easy for me to avoid (unlike soy, man, I really feel for your guys!).

[AndreaB]

Shalia,

Soy can cause intestinal damage as well as a host of other problems. I'm linking an article I posted on soy. It covers infants and children but IMO the same would hold true for adults.

Open Original Shared Link

I went off soy in February, had allergy testing (IgE/IgG) in March and enterolab in May. I was intolerant IgG and through enterolab. I was still eating things with soy lecithin and soy oil up until I got my enterolab results back. Every food that needs to be given up is going to take some time to get used to. Don't be too hard on yourself but at the same time start teaching yourself that soy is just as bad as gluten as far as your body is concerned.

[Shalia]

Well, I found otu today I can ameliorate my soy symptoms by takign Benadryl (I *knew* it was a plain allergy!) and that's *not* going to be helpful to staying off of it.

*sigh* I can't afford to become a benadryl addict. Just for soy.

ACK! I need some motivation. (Stay off teh stuff, Shalia!)

[AndreaB]

Ok, I'm going to post two articles. One for soy allergy and one for soy intolerance. I forget, are you allergic or intolerant and by what testing.

Soy Allergy

From Judy Tidwell,

Your Guide to Allergies.

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Soy Has at Least 15 Allergenic Proteins

Soy, also referred to as soya, soy bean, or glycine max, is among the main foods that produce reactions worldwide -- mostly, but not exclusively, in infants.

It is not completely certain which specific component of soy is responsible for reactions, but at least 15 allergenic proteins have been identified.

The way soy foods are processed can affect allergenicity. All soy products may not cause reactions. Some fermented soy foods may be less allergenic than raw soy beans. Soybean oil, which does not contain protein, may not produce symptoms. It just depends on the individual.

Symptoms of Soy Allergy

The reported symptoms of soy bean allergy include: acne, angioedema, rhinitis, anaphylaxis, asthma, atopic dermatitis, bronchospasm, cankers, colitis, conjunctivitis, diarrhea, diffuse small bowel disease, dyspnea, eczema, enterocolitis, fever, hypotension, itching, laryngeal edema, lethargy, pollinosis, urticaria, vomiting, and wheezing.

Cross Reactivity

Those allergic to soy beans may also cross react to certain foods, such as peanuts, green peas, chick peas, lima beans, string beans, wheat flour, rye flour, and barley flour.

Where Is Soy Found?

A great many foods already in your kitchen cupboard contain products that contain some type of soy food.

Listed below are the terms associated with soy foods:

Hydrolyzed vegetable protein (HVP) is a protein obtained from any vegetable, including soy beans that is a flavor enhancer that can be used in soups, broths, sauces, gravies, flavoring and spice blends, canned and frozen vegetables, meats and poultry.

Lecithin is extracted from soybean oil and is used in foods that are high in fats and oils to promote stabilization, antioxidation, crystallization, and spattering control. It is used as an emulsifier in chocolate. Most infant formulas contain soy lechithin.

Miso, used to flavor soups, sauces, dressings, marinades and pâtés, is a rich, salty condiment made from soy beans and a grain such as rice.

Mono-diglyceride, another soy derivative, is used for emulsion in many foods.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG) may contain hydroylzed protein which is often made from soy.

Natto, more easily digested than whole soy beans, is made of fermented and cooked whole soy beans.

Natural flavors, listed on ingredient labels may be a soy derivative.

Soy cheese, a substitute for sour cream or cream cheese, is made from soy milk.

Soy fiber whether okara, soy bran, and soy isolate fiber are used as food ingredients.

Soy flour, whether natural, defatted, and lecithinated, is made from finely ground roasted soy beans. They are often used to give a protein boost to recipes.

Soy grits, made from toasted coarsely cracked soy beans, is used as a flour substitute.

Soy meal and soy oil are used in a number of industrial products, including inks, soaps, and cosmetics.

Soy milk is used alone or can be made into soy yogurt, soy cheese, or tofu.

Soy oil, the natural oil extracted from whole soy beans, is the most widely used oil in the United States. Soy oil is used to make most margarines, Crisco and other vegetable shortenings, prepared pasta sauces, worchestershire sauce, salad dressings, mayonnaise, canned tuna, dry lemonade mix, and hot chocolate mix. Most commercial baked goods like breads, rolls, cakes, cookies, and crackers contain soy oil. Some prepackaged cereals are also made with soy oil.

Soy protein can be labeled as soy protein concentrate, isolated soy protein, textured soy protein (TSP), and textured soy flour (TSF). Textured soy flour is widely used as a meat extender. Most soup bouillons contain some form of soy protein. Many meat alternatives contain soy protein or tofu.

Soy sauces, the most common being Tamari (a by-product of making miso), Shoyu (a blend of soy beans and wheat), and Teriyaki (with added sugar, vinegar and spices), are dark brown liquids made from soy beans that have undergone a fermenting process.

Soy yogurt, made from soy milk, is an easy substitute for sour cream or cream cheese. Non dairy frozen desserts are made from soy milk or soy yogurt.

Tempeh, a traditional Indonesian food, is a chunky, tender soybean cake.

Tofu, also known as soybean curd, is a soft cheese-like food made by curdling fresh hot soy milk with a coagulant. It is a bland product that easily absorbs the flavors of other ingredients with which it is cooked. When mixed with other ingredients it can simulate various kinds of meat.

Vegetable oil, a generic term, is usually 100 percent soy oil or a blend of soy oil and other oils.

Vegetable protein is often the term used for soy protein.

Vitamin E contains soy bean oil.

If you are allergic to soy, it is best to read all ingredient labels, and if in doubt, contact the manufacturer of the product before purchasing it.

Soy Protein Intolerance

Last Updated: March 23, 2005

Author: Stefano Guandalini, MD, Director, University of Chicago Celiac Disease Program, Section Chief of Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition; Professor, Department of Pediatrics, University of Chicago Comer Children's Hospital

Coauthor(s): Agostino Nocerino, MD, PhD, Chief of Pediatric Oncology, Department of Pediatrics, University of Udine, Italy

Stefano Guandalini, MD, is a member of the following medical societies: American Gastroenterological Association, European Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition, Italian Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology and Hepatology, Italian Society of Pediatrics, and United European Gastroenterology Federation

Editor(s): Jorge Vargas, MD, Professor, Department of Pediatrics, Division of Pediatric Gastroenterology, University of California at Los Angeles School of Medicine; Robert Konop, PharmD, Director, Clinical Account Management, Ancillary Care Management; David Piccoli, MD, Chief, Division of Gastroenterology and Nutrition, The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia; Professor, Department of Pediatrics, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine; Steven M Schwarz, MD, FAAP, FACN, Chair, Department of Pediatrics, Long Island College Hospital; Professor of Pediatrics, State University of New York, Downstate Medical Center College of Medicine; and Steven M Altschuler, MD, President and CEO, Children's Hospital Foundation, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

Background: Soy-based formulas were introduced in infant nutrition 80 years ago, when their use was recommended for the treatment of summer diarrhea. Seventy years ago, the use of soy-based formulas was extended to the treatment of cow milk intolerance. In the 1970s, use of soy-based formulas became common, and in the 1970s and 1980s, US consumption was around 25% of that of cow milk–based formulas.

In the last few years, interest in soybeans and soybean components has markedly increased, mainly because of the potential influence of soy on the development of heart disease, cancer, kidney disease, osteoporosis, and menopause symptoms. Unfortunately, soy protein formulas (SPFs) can cause allergies and other intolerance reactions. For many years after the first description by Duke in 1934, soy was considered, on the basis of animal studies, a weak sensitizing protein. In the 1960s, several other authors confirmed the potential allergenicity of SPFs.

A higher prevalence of soy intolerance has generally been reported in non–immunoglobulin E (IgE)-associated enterocolitis and enteropathy syndromes. Authorities have failed to reach consensus on the risk of feeding allergic or nonallergic infants with soy protein milks. This divisive clash of opinion is also reflected in the mutually antagonistic stances adopted by 2 important scientific societies, the European Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology, and Nutrition (ESPGHAN) and the European Society of Pediatric Allergy and Clinical Immunology (ESPACI). However, the general agreement is that a significant number of children with cow milk protein intolerance develop soy protein intolerance when soy milk is used in dietary management.

Pathophysiology: Two heat-stable globulins (beta-conglycinin, molecular weight (MW) 180,000 and glycinin, MW 320,000) constitute 90% of the pulp-derived proteins. Immunoblotting and competitive enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays have identified a 30 kD glycinin from soybeans that cross-reacts with cow milk caseins and that is constituted by 2 polypeptides (A5 and B3) linked by a disulphide bond. The protein's capacity to bind to the different antibodies relies on the B3 polypeptide. However, other soy proteins can act as allergens in humans. At least 9 proteins with MW ranging from 14,875-54,500 were found to react with human IgE in patients with asthma. Moreover, after enteric digestion, a number of potential antigens are generated at the mucosal surface.

According to some studies in animal models, soy proteins appear to be less sensitizing than cow milk proteins; however, infants with a previous history of cow milk protein intolerance have a greater risk of developing soy protein intolerance. The intestinal mucosa damaged by cow milk proteins may allow increased uptake of the potentially allergenic soy proteins.

Frequency:

In the US: In a national survey of pediatric allergists, the prevalence rate of soy protein allergy was reported to be 1.1%, compared to the 3.4% prevalence rate of cow milk protein allergy.

Internationally: In a prospective study of healthy infants fed soy-based formula, allergic responses to soy were documented in 0.5% of infants.

In a group of 243 children who were born of atopic parents and who received SPF for the first 6 months of life to prevent cow milk allergy, 14 (6%) of the children had positive skin test prick reactions to soy. Only 1 of these 14 children reacted to the double-blind placebo-controlled oral food challenge to soy.

The prevalence of food allergy in patients with atopic dermatitis varies with age and the severity of atopic dermatitis. Different prevalence rates have been reported; however, in most series, 30-40% of the patients received a diagnosis of food allergy. In a study from Italy, a positive radioallergosorbent assay test (RAST) result to soy was found in 25% of children with atopic dermatitis, but a positive challenge test result to soy was elicited in only 3% of the patients. Two other studies documented soy positivity in 5% of 204 patients and 4% of 143 children.

In a group of 93 children with documented IgE-associated cow milk allergy who received soy formula, 14% developed soy allergy.

In 1990, one of the authors reviewed the evidence obtained from 2108 Italian children with proven cow milk protein intolerance and non–IgE-associated enterocolitis and enteropathy syndrome. Forty-seven percent of the patients had to discontinue soy formulas because of intolerance. A higher prevalence was noted in infants younger than 3 months (53%). Thirty-five percent of children older than 1 year developed soy intolerance.

A soy-based formula is often substituted for cow milk in infants recovering from acute gastroenteritis; however, in a previous study that recruited 18 infants with acute gastroenteritis, 3 (16%) of the children developed a clinical reaction to soy challenge and 7 (38%) of the children developed histologic and enzymologic changes after soy challenge.

Mortality/Morbidity: Anaphylactic reactions to soy proteins are extremely rare; however, a population study in Sweden from 1993-1996 reported 4 deaths caused by soy.

Age: The risk of developing soy protein intolerance decreases with age. Among children with cow milk protein intolerance, infants younger than 3 months are at higher risk of developing soy protein intolerance (53%) compared to children older than 1 year (35%).

History: The typical presentation is that of an infant who develops atopic dermatitis or cow milk protein intolerance, which resolves with substitution of a soy formula but recurs 1 or 2 weeks later. Parents may report a recrudescence of dermatitis or GI symptoms. Usually, the infant presents with watery diarrhea and vomiting.

Soy protein intolerance may cause different clinical syndromes, both IgE- and non–IgE-mediated. These reactions include the following:

Rhinitis

Urticaria or angioedema

Asthma

Anaphylaxis (rare)

Atopic dermatitis

Enterocolitis syndrome

Intestinal atrophy (malabsorption syndrome)

Eosinophilic gastroenteritis

Allergic proctocolitis

In susceptible individuals, the ingestion of soy proteins may cause the following:

Protracted diarrhea

Carbohydrate intolerance

Failure to thrive

Some children present with atopic dermatitis as a major symptom; however, most patients present with profuse vomiting and watery diarrhea.

The symptoms usually begin within 2 weeks of the infant's first feeding with soy-derived milk.

Sometimes mucus can be present in the stools, but blood is rarely noted.

Even if frank manifestations of colitis are absent, inflammatory changes in the colonic mucosa are frequently encountered.

The infant is usually dehydrated, and sometimes signs of malabsorption appear.

Small-bowel atrophy has been documented in different studies.

The degree of villous atrophy may be similar to that of celiac disease.

The mucosal damage causes malabsorption, hypoalbuminemia, and failure to thrive.

Some infants can present because of red blood mixed in stools. These infants usually appear healthy, and hematochezia is the only symptom.

Physical: The physical examination findings depend on the clinical picture and the duration of symptoms.

The most frequent presentation is enterocolitis syndrome; therefore, the infant appears dehydrated, with weight loss and sunken eyes.

In case of proctocolitis, the infant usually appears healthy and has normal weight gain.

In the less frequent case of soy-induced enteropathy, the infant has a low weight-to-length ratio and usually presents with dystrophia.

The signs and symptoms are related to the degree of the malnutrition. For example, edema is related to hypoalbuminemia; dermatitis enteropathica, to low zinc level; and rickets, to vitamin D deficiency.

Causes: All soybean proteins and foods currently available for human consumption contain significant amounts of the isoflavones daidzein and genistein, either as the unconjugate form or as different types of glycoside conjugates.

The isoflavones have structural homology to steroidal estrogens; therefore, they are considered to be phytoestrogens, but little is known about their biological activity.

Unquestionably, isoflavone ingestion can elicit biological effects; however, isoflavones and their metabolites have biological properties that are quite separate from classic estrogen action.

Genistein is a potent inhibitor of tyrosine kinases and can interfere with signal transduction pathways.

The threshold intake of dietary estrogens necessary to achieve a biological effect in healthy adults appears to be 30-50 mg/d.

In soy flours and concentrates, isoflavone concentrations are relatively high (0.5-3 mg/g). In soy milk and soy infant formulas, the concentration of isoflavones is lower (0.3-0.5 mg/g), but it is 10,000-fold higher than the concentration found in breast milk. Moreover, the volume intake of these products is sufficient to account for a significantly high dietary intake of isoflavones.

Infants fed soy-based formulas have plasma concentrations of isoflavones that are 3000- to 22,000-fold higher than plasma concentrations of estradiol.

Even if these substances have a weak estrogenic activity compared with estradiol, they could have adverse effects; however, the concerns about the adverse role of phytoestrogens in the first months of life are exclusively theoretical. At this time, the very limited available evidence from adult and infant populations indicates that dietary isoflavones in soy infant formulas do not adversely affect human growth, development, or reproduction.

The results of a study that enrolled 48 children (mean age, 37 mo; range, 7-96 mo) suggest that long-term feeding with SPFs in early life does not produce estrogenlike hormonal effects.

Gastroenteritis

Gastroesophageal Reflux

Ulcerative Colitis

Other Problems to be Considered:

Gastrointestinal bleeding

Celiac disease

Malabsorption syndrome

Infectious colitis

Enteropathy

Cow milk protein intolerance

Autoimmune enteropathy

Intractable diarrhea of infancy

Intestinal infections

Enterocolitis

Intestinal infections

Cow milk protein intolerance

Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Proctocolitis

Anal Fistulas and Fissures

Meckel Diverticulum

Intestinal duplication

Intestinal hemangiomas

Intestinal infections

Cow milk protein intolerance

Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Other Tests:

Soy-induced GI symptoms are usually not IgE-mediated; therefore, both skin tests and determination of specific IgE in serum have a low diagnostic value.

RAST appears to be of poor predictive value. Many children with positive results do not react to challenge tests.

Prick tests have little predictive value. The acidic subunits of glycinin and beta-conglycinin appear to be present in reduced amounts or absent in some commercial soybean skin test extracts tested by sodium dodecyl sulfate-polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis (SDS-PAGE) and immunoblotting. As a consequence, these commercial extracts are less sensitive than extracts of soy flour.

The challenge test with soy proteins, after an elimination diet, is the only reliable method of evaluating soy protein intolerance.

Procedures:

Endoscopy: During the workup for differential diagnoses, upper or lower GI endoscopies are often performed in patients with soy protein intolerance. Findings, however, are nonspecific, most commonly minimal, and, at times, even completely unremarkable. Accordingly, and because of the transient nature of the disorder, endoscopies are not considered essential.

Esophagogastroduodenoscopy

Macroscopically, only minimal erythematous changes may be observed.

Microscopically, any area (eg, lower esophagus, gastric body, antrum, duodenum) may or may not show signs of acute inflammation.

In a minority of patients, an infiltrate of eosinophils is observed.

When the clinical presentation is that of a malabsorption syndrome, the duodenal mucosa may have changes (eg, partial villous atrophy, crypt hyperplasia) indistinguishable from those of celiac disease.

Colonoscopy

Macroscopically, changes may vary from minimal erythematous segments, most commonly diffusely involving the distal colon, to severe inflammation with bleeding ulcers and loss of vascular markings.

Microscopically, nonspecific acute inflammatory changes are observed, typically indistinguishable from infectious colitis. Rarely, eosinophils predominate in the lamina propria.

Medical Care: Children affected by soy protein intolerance respond quickly to elimination of soy formula and introduction of a hydrolyzed protein formula.

Drug therapy is not currently a component of the standard of care for soy protein intolerance.

Prognosis:

Soy protein intolerance is similar to other food protein intolerances. Its risk peaks during infancy, and it usually regresses completely during the first 2-3 years of life. Most children, therefore, can resume consumption of soy proteins by age 5 years.

Patient Education:

Use of SPF during the first 3 months of life does not reduce the frequency of cow milk intolerance after the introduction of cow milk formula.

Routine use of SPF has no proven value in the prevention of atopic disease.

Routine use of SPF has no proven value in the prevention or management of infantile colic.

Aggett PJ, Haschke F, Heine W: Comment on antigen-reduced infant formulae. ESPGAN Committee on Nutrition. Acta Paediatr 1993 Mar; 82(3): 314-9[Medline].

American Academy of Pediatrics: Committee on Nutrition. Soy protein- based formulas: recommendations for use in infant feeding. Pediatrics 1998 Jan; 101(1 Pt 1): 148-53[Medline].

Bruno G, Giampietro PG, Del Guercio MJ: Soy allergy is not common in atopic children: a multicenter study. Pediatr Allergy Immunol 1997 Nov; 8(4): 190-3[Medline].

Businco L, Dreborg S, Einarsson R: Hydrolyzed cow's milk formulae. Allergenicity and use in treatment and prevention. An ESPACI position paper. European Society of Pediatric Allergy and Clinical Immunology. Pediatr Allergy Immunol 1993 Aug; 4(3): 101-11[Medline].

Businco L, Bruno G, Giampietro PG: Soy protein for the prevention and treatment of children with cow-milk allergy. Am J Clin Nutr 1998 Dec; 68(6 Suppl): 1447S-1452S[Medline].

Eastham EJ, Lichauco T, Pang K: Antigenicity of infant formulas and the induction of systemic immunological tolerance by oral feeding: cow's milk versus soymilk. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 1982; 1(1): 23-8[Medline].

Foucard T, Malmheden Yman I: A study on severe food reactions in Sweden--is soy protein an underestimated cause of food anaphylaxis? Allergy 1999 Mar; 54(3): 261-5[Medline].

Giampietro PG, Ragno V, Daniele S: Soy hypersensitivity in children with food allergy. Ann Allergy 1992 Aug; 69(2): 143-6[Medline].

Halpin TC, Byrne WJ, Ament ME: Colitis, persistent diarrhea, and soy protein intolerance. J Pediatr 1977 Sep; 91(3): 404-7[Medline].

Herian AM, Bush RK, Taylor SL: Protein and allergen content of commercial skin test extracts for soybeans. Clin Exp Allergy 1992 Apr; 22(4): 461-8[Medline].

Iyngkaran N, Yadav M, Looi LM: Effect of soy protein on the small bowel mucosa of young infants recovering from acute gastroenteritis. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 1988 Jan-Feb; 7(1): 68-75[Medline].

Poley JR, Klein AW: Scanning electron microscopy of soy protein-induced damage of small bowel mucosa in infants. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 1983 May; 2(2): 271-87[Medline].

Setchell KD, Zimmer-Nechemias L, Cai J: Exposure of infants to phyto-oestrogens from soy-based infant formula. Lancet 1997 Jul 5; 350(9070): 23-7[Medline].

Setchell KD: Phytoestrogens: the biochemistry, physiology, and implications for human health of soy isoflavones. Am J Clin Nutr 1998 Dec; 68(6 Suppl): 1333S-1346S[Medline].

Zeiger RS, Sampson HA, Bock SA: Soy allergy in infants and children with IgE-associated cow's milk allergy. J Pediatr 1999 May; 134(5): 614-22[Medline].

Zoppi G, Guandalini S: The story of soy formula feeding in infants: a road paved with good intentions. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 1999 May; 28(5): 541-3[Medline].

[Shalia]

My "testing" is dietary testing. I'd narrowed it down to corn, soy, or dairy that was teh potential problem. I drank a glass of egg nog, no reaction. I had some swedish fish, no reaction. I ate half a Kinni-too cookie, and my nose was stuffed up and my throat was thick and it was hard to breathe. Ingredient: soy.

I've tested one other time, just to make sure. W/in 5 minutes of eating soy, my nose is stuffed up and my throat starts thickening up.

So, I just need to convince myself not to cheat! I know it's my problem, I know it can't be good that I'm giving myself something that makes it hard to breathe, but it's in all the chocolate...

It's mostly chocolate I'm cheating with. *sigh*

Thanks for the articles, Andrea. *hug*

[frenchiemama]

If you search around online, you should be able to find soy-free chocolate. I know it's out there.

[AndreaB]

Shalia,

Four words......Enjoy Life Chocolate Chips.

They are wonderful and no soy.

[Shalia]

Shalia,

Four words......Enjoy Life Chocolate Chips.

They are wonderful and no soy.

I guess I'll have to order them online, as NO ONE NEAR ME sells them! I've checked every health food store since you mentioned them before!

[tarnalberry]

Well... if soy makes you sick, and you keep eating soy, you have to ask yourself, why do you keep making yourself sick? I think a good portion of some of these things is psychological.

[Simply-V]

Well... if soy makes you sick, and you keep eating soy, you have to ask yourself, why do you keep making yourself sick? I think a good portion of some of these things is psychological.

Actually it can be physical addiction. Eating things we're allergic to..our bodies react with a shot of adrenaline to fight it. Its easy to be addicted to that, and for physical cravings to manifest. And the only way to break the addiction is to avoid it completely, detox, and stay away. Overtime the physical addiction symptoms will lessen and eating it will then make them sick, but it takes time for the body to heal and rewire.

[frenchiemama]

Well... if soy makes you sick, and you keep eating soy, you have to ask yourself, why do you keep making yourself sick? I think a good portion of some of these things is psychological.

Speaking for myself only here, it isn't as though I eat those things because they make me sick. I eat them in spite of the fact that they make me sick (well, not really sick. Just major eczema). I didn't set out to eat sushi w/ soy sauce because I have some latent desire to harm myself. I did it because it's something that I LOVE and I can't bear the thought of having to give up (since I've given up so much already). I know that I shouldn't eat it, and I don't eat it all the time, but I want to keep at least a little pleasure in my life. I love food. Well, I used to love food. I have had to give up every single favorite food that I had, and most of the time the replacements just don't cut it.

[AndreaB]

I guess I'll have to order them online, as NO ONE NEAR ME sells them! I've checked every health food store since you mentioned them before!

Shalia,

What state do you live in?

[tarnalberry]

Speaking for myself only here, it isn't as though I eat those things because they make me sick.

I didn't mean it in a "because it makes you sick" way. Rather, the fact that it makes you sick isn't sufficient to keep you from doing it. That makes it self-destructive, in some ways. We all do some things that are self-destructive to some extent, and it's useful to think about why. Sometimes, if we can understand why the reward makes it worth the risk for us, it helps.

Sometimes not. Just one more thing to think about, is all.

[frenchiemama]

Well, I'm a simple creature. The one and only reason that I occasionally cheat with dairy and soy is that the benefit (enjoying a food that I love) is worth enduring the consequences (insomnia and eczema). I don't want to live that way, but it's hard for me to give up what I love without severe penalties (as with gluten).

[tarnalberry]

Well, I'm a simple creature. The one and only reason that I occasionally cheat with dairy and soy is that the benefit (enjoying a food that I love) is worth enduring the consequences (insomnia and eczema). I don't want to live that way, but it's hard for me to give up what I love without severe penalties (as with gluten).

And, in my opinion, if we really know the consequences (if, for instance, the insomnia and eczema are the extent of them) and the reward is worth it, and we've thought about it, then we're making an informed decision, and I don't think there's a big problem with that. (I'm not condoning eating things that make people sick, just condoning individuals making informed decisions for themselves. Sometimes, in some instances, I think the latter can lead to the former. )

[Jestgar]

Rather, the fact that it makes you sick isn't sufficient to keep you from doing it. That makes it self-destructive, in some ways. We all do some things that are self-destructive to some extent, and it's useful to think about why. Sometimes, if we can understand why the reward makes it worth the risk for us, it helps.

This is interesting. There are some things I cheat on and some I don't. The ones with the most sever penalties (for me) I never cheat on.

As for the other things, sometimes I think the penalties aren't sever enough to add that particular food to my "don't touch list". I'm willing to tolerate a bit of discomfort now and then to pretend I'm normal.

Curious beings we are.

[frenchiemama]

I'm willing to tolerate a bit of discomfort now and then to pretend I'm normal.

Curious beings we are.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

[lonewolf]

For me, I weigh the pro's and con's of cheating. I will NEVER cheat with gluten - it's just not worth it. The only soy I eat is soy lecithin in things like chocolate chips (can't afford the Enjoy Life ones), which is a once in a while thing. I have never noticed a reaction to lecithin, but if I did, I would probably cut it out too.

I cheat with eggs once in a while in a baked good if it just won't work without it. I have to decide if my psoriasis getting worse is worth the piece of cake or whatever - sometimes yes, sometimes no. I would never try scrambled eggs because I'm afraid I would be really sick, but 1/16th of an egg I'm sometimes willing to risk - but I only did that after avoiding them like the plague for about 9 years.

I'm kind of the same with dairy - I would never drink milk or eat real cheese or ice cream. But I do bake with butter occasionally because I can't find a dairy-free, soy-free margarine without hydrogenated oils. And I occasionally eat raw goat or sheep milk cheese. Again, I weigh the pro's and con's.

[tarnalberry]

exactly - so, for the op, shalia, if you can weigh the pros and cons objectively, and not make a *purely* emotional decision about it (though I'm certainly not saying that the emotional aspect should be left out - it is certainly a factor in something like this), and make a well-informed, thought out decision, then there's no reason to feel guilty.

(sometimes I feel guilty for being *so* strict about dairy - with nothing but an dietary elimination to go on. I won't even do butter. but... it's a decision I made, with a lot of information. so be it. )

[Shalia]

Shalia,

What state do you live in?

I'm in Utah. Salt Lake to be exact.

I didn't mean it in a "because it makes you sick" way. Rather, the fact that it makes you sick isn't sufficient to keep you from doing it. That makes it self-destructive, in some ways. We all do some things that are self-destructive to some extent, and it's useful to think about why. Sometimes, if we can understand why the reward makes it worth the risk for us, it helps.

Sometimes not. Just one more thing to think about, is all.

No, what you said really helped me. When I was craving a chocolate bar today I asked myself "is it worth being sick? Why make myself sick when I can avoid it?" and I was able to keep away. So you really helped me.

Thanks.

Shalia

[CarlaB]

My other intolerance is dairy/casein. It makes me feel worse than gluten does, so no cheating!!! It's interesting to me that some of your intolerances aren't as bad as gluten.

[AndreaB]

Shalia,

Fred Meyer/Krogers carries some enjoy life stuff up here. Maybe they would be willing to order some chips for you.

[tarnalberry]

When I was craving a chocolate bar today I asked myself "is it worth being sick? Why make myself sick when I can avoid it?" and I was able to keep away. So you really helped me.

I'm glad it helped.

You shouldn't have to go without chocolate if it's not absolutely necessary though, so I encourage you to look around for chocolate you can have. (So says this bossy little chocoholic. ) It's dairy and soy, right? Including soy lecithin? If so, you can still get ground cocoa and make hot chocolate, or chocolate pies, or raw brownies. You can even get dark chocolate bars without soy lecithin - I believe Green & Black's mint bar doesn't have soy, Michael Cozumel (sp) french chocolates don't, and ... some type of chocolate chips (someone help me out here, I know they've been mentioned a number of times) are soy free too.