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Monosodium Glutamate


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31 replies to this topic

#16 Tim-n-VA

 
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Posted 11 October 2006 - 03:33 AM

Yes, but were you aware that for these studies they were using Aspartame in the placebos!!


The article cited didn't mention aspartame. Where did you get that information? Not trying to be difficult but my whole point in this thread is that anyone can put anything they want on the internet which makes it difficult to make correct decisions.

The obvious solution is to be very aware of who is putting the information out. On the MSG topic, I am very skeptical of both the industry "Pro MSG" and the advocacy "Anti MSG" sites.
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#17 RiceGuy

 
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Posted 11 October 2006 - 05:28 AM

Some months ago, I was looking at a company website that specializes in cheese substitute products which are gluten-free, but they had a yeast of some kind in at least some of their products. That ingredient will put MSG into the product, and they actually claimed "No MSG". So I contacted them and asked for an explanation. It took something like two months for them to reply. When they finally wrote back, they did not dispute the presents of MSG in their products at all. Their response could be summed up with something like "Well, yeah, but it's a small amount".

So, how much is a "small amount"? There isn't much cyanide in a peach pit either, but it's not like we should eat them. Interestingly, the ingredients and the "No MSG" claims are no longer on the site <_< I only find ingredients for two items, neither of which list the yeast. I do not know if those items had it listed previously. However, they do say "Natural Flavors (no MSG)", so I'm guessing this is their new labeling tactic.

I've never liked seeing an ingredient listed only as "Natural Flavors". I also think it's suspicious when the list states "Spices", giving no specifics whatsoever as to what that includes. What about individuals who are allergic to certain spices? What is the definition of a spice? If an ingredient which is only added for flavor and no other reason can be termed a spice, then the consumer is even more at the mercy of the manufacturer.
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A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

#18 RiceGuy

 
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Posted 13 October 2006 - 05:59 AM

I must make a correction on my previous post, as I did find the company's statement about MSG. They still maintain the claim of no MSG, but also say "We do use inactivated yeast extract as a natural flavor." So, while they can slip through the FDA's loopholes, their products most certainly contain Free Glutamic Acid, which will readily be transformed into MSG anyway. That's why they are adding such an ingredient in the first place! When was the last time you saw a food item designated as being "yeast flavored"? That wouldn't likely be very popular. Fruit flavors on the other hand are indeed quite popular.
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A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

#19 eKatherine

 
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 01:00 PM

Also what do those who are anti-Msg really stand to gain by speaking out about the dangers of a known neuorotoxin....other than to eduacte and warn the general public???
I'm thinking the pro-Msger's are the ones who will really benefit from having pulled the wool over the eyes of the people. It comes down to the almighty $$....and yes, MSG is a huge contributer to the obesity factor here in the US. Nevermind that though....MSG makes big bucks for the food industry and so they have *everything* to gain by making false statements and by putting another known neurotoxin into their placebo. Again...I have to ask....why would they do this??? <_<


Show me the evidence that "msg is a huge contributor to the obesity factor in the US". I cook all my food from scratch, and never add msg, but I'm overweight.
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#20 Rikki Tikki

 
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 01:44 PM

Show me the evidence that "msg is a huge contributor to the obesity factor in the US". I cook all my food from scratch, and never add msg, but I'm overweight.

I think the statement she is trying to make is that MSG is a big contributor to obesity, not the only cause. I think genetics also play a role. My dad was a very heavy man yet never ate MSG or anything cooked with it, so for him it was more a lifestyle and genetics that caused him to be overweight. It's like someone saying celiac causes everyone to be thin, we know that's not true.
Just my thoughts
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Nostaglia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days!!!!

" 15 years of it's stress!"
"blood work show's a disease called celiac,
but it can't be that because it's rare!"
Diagnosed via blood and biopsy 2003


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offering support, my
experience and advice

#21 eKatherine

 
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:03 PM

I think the statement she is trying to make is that MSG is a big contributor to obesity, not the only cause.

I'm sure that's what she's trying to say, but I'd be glad to settle for evidence of that, too. So many dietary changes have occurred in the past generation or two that I'd want to see some clear evidence that it has any effect on the weight of humans before putting it on the list with things like high fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated (and unhydrogenated) vegetable oils and trends away from meat and animal fat.

The biggest "cause" of increase in obesity in this country was when they decided to change the table so that overnight several million more people became obese. Any discussion of rates of obesity in generations past that fails to acknowledge this difference is leaving out something important from the discussion.
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#22 Rikki Tikki

 
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:22 PM

I think about that also Katherine. I look around at so many overweight children and just people in our society and I look at the number of vehicles at McDonalds and other fast food joints, when I was a kid eating out at McDonalds was a treat and not one we got to have very often, now it's just easier for people to stop and grab something. The same thing with soda (of which I drink a lot of) when I was growing up we just seldom had it. We seem to be living in the day and age where we eat a lot of really high calorie food. It does seem many more people are overweight than what used to be and I do think it is partly because of the way we eat now.
I know that the change in the table affected many people but I also see evidence of a huge change in bodies since I was a kid, a big change in eating habits. Maybe it's not just the way we eat but the number of foods that are now processed, the high fructose corn syrup and fats and oils that didn't used to be added to our foods. My mom made everything from scratch and yet my dad would just eat more of it than the rest of us, and he was a big man.
I don't even thing physical education is required in schools every year like it used to be. Kids now sit in front of computers (like moms B) and play games where when we were kids we were out playing. The numbers of people diagnosed diabetic has increased, and the list goes on and on.
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Nostaglia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days!!!!

" 15 years of it's stress!"
"blood work show's a disease called celiac,
but it can't be that because it's rare!"
Diagnosed via blood and biopsy 2003


Not a medical professional just a silly celiac
offering support, my
experience and advice

#23 Rachel--24

 
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:26 PM

Tavi,

Yes, I was only stating that its a huge factor in obesity....not the sole cause. Many things can contribute...gentecics included. It certainly cant help that MSG is in just about everything processed and a very large portion of the american diet is processed foods.

The amounts of MSG hidden in our foods has steadily increased over the years....dramatically. I saw the numbers once but have since forgotten....it was staggering though. Just look around....obesity has also increased dramatically. Something has got to be causing this epidemic. Genetics cant be causing this problem....its just way to widespread and not as much of an issue in other countries where they give more thought to what goes into their food supply.

In studies they do on mice...if they need to "fatten" up the mice....they feed them MSG. That is what they do to get nice obese mice for the purpose of their studies. Its not rocket science if you know exactly what MSG is and what it does. It alters the brain...the part of the brain that would typically tell you when you are full and when to stop eating. It causes you to eat more. It affects the tastebuds as well....leaving you wanting more of whatever it is you're eating.

Obviously if you are eating more food than what is necessary for your body....you will become overweight. Maybe not because of MSG alone...but there is also an overabundence of other "junk" in our food supply. Then there is the fact that kids dont excersise as much...too much TV, video games, junk food, and not enough excercise.

Its a combination of many things but I think our food supply is probably the BIGGEST problem with the rise in obesity in this country.

Has anyone seen "Supersize Me"? The guy gained over 20 lbs. in one month.
Yeah....most of us dont eat McDonalds morning, noon and night....but what alot of Americans do eat isnt a whole lot better. I think it would cause the same problem whether it was McDonalds, Taco Bell, Jack in The Box, Round Table....or half of the stuff on the aisles of the grocery store.
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#24 eKatherine

 
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 03:43 PM

Yes, I was only stating that its a huge factor in obesity....not the sole cause.

Again, "huge factor", which is to say, a major factor. I'm looking for some sort of reference, since this board is the only place I have ever read that, while in many places I have seen references to increased consumption of high fructose corn syrup, sweetened beverages such as sodas and fruit drinks, shift to more vegetable oils, especially hydrogenated ones with trans fat, portion size in restaurants, shift from eating meals to constantly eating snacks, the recommended switch to eating "fat free" foods with less protein and more carbs (read: wheat)...
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#25 RiceGuy

 
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Posted 15 October 2006 - 05:45 AM

Again, "huge factor", which is to say, a major factor. I'm looking for some sort of reference...

OK, since you asked for it (and I guess you mean something more "official"), here's just one of many:
http://www.azconservative.org/cox6.htm
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A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

#26 eKatherine

 
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Posted 15 October 2006 - 06:49 AM

OK, since you asked for it (and I guess you mean something more "official"), here's just one of many:
http://www.azconservative.org/cox6.htm

This reads like a press release that someone turned into newspaper content. I finally googled and found many profiles of the few "experts" who have written most of the anti-msg books on the subject. To a one they were saying that msg has been proven to be responsible for obesity or the obesity epidemic, but no sources were shown and the reporter did not ask - which makes it suspect -an actual newspaper article written by a reporter should ask those things. Also, these profile pieces were copied and reposted repeatedly, which made them look like a PR piece written by a publicist involved with the release of a book.

As far as medical research is concerned, the only actual research I was able to find shows that when you repeatedly inject newborn baby rats with almost enough msg to kill them, they become obese. This appears to be the basis of the entire "MSG causes obesity" claim.

"MSG is responsible for the obesity epidemic in humans" is a claim that really needs to be substantiated with better research than this - research which shows any effect on humans when used as it normally is, for instance. A proper study might show kids losing weight when msg is removed from their diet, but this would probably not be doable without making their diet healthy, and then it would be impossible to separate any purported effect of msg from the switch to a healthy diet. Giving a daily dose of msg or a placebo to adults for a period of a month or more should probably show a gain in weight for those on the msg, and the result should be dose-dependent. If this study had been run, we would have heard. Since we haven't heard, I'd guess it hasn't. Perhaps the anti-msg proponents could try running just such a study.

What this research shows is that it is probably very bad to inject newborns of any species with near-lethal doses of msg for the first month after they are born, but as far as humans and ingestion of small amounts (as opposed to injection), it proves nothing.
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#27 RiceGuy

 
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Posted 15 October 2006 - 01:48 PM

This reads like a press release that someone turned into newspaper content... but no sources were shown and the reporter did not ask - which makes it suspect -an actual newspaper article written by a reporter should ask those things.

Huh? Did you see the reference to the many ACTUAL LAB STUDIES listed on www.pubmed.com?

As for the duration of the MSG given to rats, they mature too rapidly to do the long-term studies required to satisfy all the requirements of those who doubt the harmful long-term effects of MSG. Giving humans MSG in the quantities found in so many prepackaged foods for an extended period is being done - to the American populace. That's the kind of data required. If the average person is overweight, then it seems to me that any study trying to verify whether MSG is a factor would be better to eliminate that one substance from the diet. Leaving the rest of the dietary intake unchanged would be the only way to give that "absolute positive proof" some ask for. Otherwise, you'd have to give the subject more MSG than what the average person is now consuming, thus voiding the experiment. The argument is over current levels, as well as the steady rise over time of both the MSG level and the obesity epidemic, is it not? This also would avoid the argument that the human race may be a victim of some evolutionary process.

So, this may be one study that truly never gets done, because the funding isn't there. A large number of foods on the market would have to be precisely duplicated except for the absence of MSG. You'd need to have two groups of individuals. Both consuming the exact same diets, but one group gets the duplicates. Then over time any effects could be measured. Any changes to the control group's diet could change their weights, so you have to keep that intact. The non-MSG group can't maintain a different diet because those changes would void the experiment as well. Let's also not forget that such major funding would place all involved head to head with large industries - ones which already provide funding for things they want studied. That leads to conflicts of interest which I don't imagine any lab/university would be willing to step into.
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A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

#28 eKatherine

 
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Posted 15 October 2006 - 02:18 PM

The argument is over current levels, as well as the steady rise over time of both the MSG level and the obesity epidemic, is it not?

While people in our culture are eating some more msg, there have also been many dietary changes in that same time period that actually have been shown to have a measurable obesity-producing effect.

Your point was mine in doing a study eliminating msg from the diet: that it can't be done while keeping all other things equal, though someone could certainly manufacture (ie home cook) a diet for a month or two with an msg and non-msg option.

I'm also curious why we haven't seen a chorus of "I gave up msg and lost 10...25...50...100 pounds!" which I would expect to see if there was this effect.
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#29 Rusla

 
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Posted 15 October 2006 - 02:30 PM

MSG should be outlawed, as it really doesn't enhance the product. You can enhance flavors with spices. I have been allergic to MSG for forever. As msg contains hydrolyzed vegetable protein which more often than doesn't contains gluten and is a big no no for us.. It is safe to say stay away from it. My problems with it started in my late teens when they started adding it to everything. If I ate something that had it in it my tongue would crack and bleed, headaches, and spending copious amounts of time in the bathroom. Guess what KFC has the highest amount of in their chicken breadng...you guessed it so, in essence in that bucket of salt people buy is a bucket of msg and gluten, more gluten than chicken.
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#30 RiceGuy

 
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 07:38 AM

MSG should be outlawed...

Yes, but the FDA has done exactly the opposite!

Here's a quote from this article:

Hermanussen has been conducting a study using Memantine, a drug usually used to treat Alzheimer's disease, for weight control, and all of his subjects, he says, have lost weight easily.
Memantine is a member of the class of drugs called glutamate blockers, which keep MSG from reaching glutamate receptors in the brain

Here's yet another good article on how MSG effects the brain:
http://www.vitalearth.org/MSG.htm

While it ends with a promo for a product, the scientific info is still just as valid. One-sided? Perhaps, but since MSG is in so much stuff, that to me seems like an overly lopsided scale too.

I'm also curious why we haven't seen a chorus of "I gave up msg and lost 10...25...50...100 pounds!" which I would expect to see if there was this effect.

I doubt we'll see such a chorus since MSG is so well hidden that most people are unaware of its presents, be they overweight or not. Even when you look for it, you may not find it even when it's list, much less when it's not.

Moreover, from what I've been reading it seems that once the hypothalamus is damaged, there will be irreversible weight gain! This has been proven in the lab, and it seems infants and children are much more sensitive to the effects of MSG. And guess what? Tests show infant formulas have MSG! So they are in essence preparing our children for a lifetime of weight problems. In this case, it may take an entirely new generation to overcome the obesity epidemic, but only if the average consumer becomes informed enough to avoid such culprits as MSG. I'd hope that public demand would force the manufacturers to stop lacing the supermarket shelves with neurotoxins, but the way things are going doesn't give me any hope for the foreseeable future.
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A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.




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