*********help, I Need A Hive Expert**********

[azmom3]

My 10 year old son, who never had even a single hive in his life, all of a sudden started getting them about 3 months ago and has had them virtually every day since. Some only last minutes, but the huge ones (3 inches in diameter), take 4-5 days to go away completely, but they always reappear somewhere else. He usually only has 4-6 at a time. Blood test was negative for celiac, but we plan on trying the gluten-free diet anyways (but haven't yet), as he has quite a few symptoms. He was also tested by blood for tons of different things, all which came back negative. His IgA was a little low, so I got a second opinion from our allergist, who said it wasn't low enough to cause much concern, but that we should retest in 6-12 months to be on the safe side. Here are some things that have been going on...would any of these be the source?

He was just "recovering" from mono when the hives started, although he has not seemed the same since....very depressed, pale, big bags under his eyes, very tired, poor appetite , out of control behavior problems, etc. Can you start getting hives for no other reason than from having mono? What do you do about it? He's already taking zyrtec and singulair every day and he uses ice packs or frozen washcloths to relieve the itch when they're really bad.

His teacher this year has said and done some pretty harsh things to hurt his self esteem....(after getting a low grade on an open book test, she said in our conference with the principal present, "Any smart kid would get an A on an open book test.") This is the type of comment she's been making almost every day. Believe me, we've looked at all our options and both the principal and teacher know that I am on top of everything. I could go on and on about this, but the bottom line is that it's been incredibly stressful. By the way, he had mono from before school started, but we didn't realize it until we started running all the tests about a month into school. He was falling asleep at school and having difficulty concentrating. He's always been an A student, with the occasional B and never got less than excellent for his behavior at school. On top of all this, he lost his grandpa to brain cancer 2 weeks into school, then lost his dog he's had his whole life about a month later. Things have been getting back to normal....school's still rough, but getting better, but he still has hives. Can all the stress cause hives like this?

Could he be developing an allergic reaction to something that he never had before? We're using the same laundry detergent. He has been using a different shampoo, I just realized. Could that cause it? Could he develop an allergy to peanuts and does this sound like a reaction you would get after eating it all your life without symptoms? Our youngest son is allergic to peanuts, all tree nuts, and seeds and we never knew until we ran the test checking for milk allergy as well as others. We are a highly allergic family with both food and environmental allergies.

He had skin testing done for environmental allergies and had some pretty extreme reactions to many trees, plants, and all grass. There were six things that he developed huge welts from during the test that didn't go away for a week. He also had moderate reactions to 1/2 the stuff he was tested for.

One other thing and this probably sounds crazy, but could he be allergic to zyrtec? I know it's supposed to prevent or help hives, but he started getting them about 2 days after starting on zyrtec and has been on it every day since.

What else could it be?

Sorry this is so long, but would appreciate any help. Thanks!

[chrissy]

i think it is possible to be allergic to anything.

quite a few years back i developed hives one night for no apparent reason. i could write with my nail on my skin and it would welt up---any scratch would do the same thing. i was given an allergy med that did not help, so quit taking it. i was told i was having a histamine reaction. after about 6 weeks the hives went away and have never returned. we live in a farming area and i wonder if i could have been reacting to something that was sprayed.

[Green12]

One other thing and this probably sounds crazy, but could he be allergic to zyrtec? I know it's supposed to prevent or help hives, but he started getting them about 2 days after starting on zyrtec and has been on it every day since.

Hi azmom, sorry your son is suffering so much with hive breakouts. Unfortunately, I don't have much info to share. I have struggled with hives and chronic angioedema outbreaks for years now and the source really is a mystery, anything can be the cause, and there are just so many variables.

You bring up an excellent question about being allergic to the Zyrtec. I don't have any first hand experience with Zyrtec, but on my Claritin package it says it can cause hives, in fact my ibuprofen bottle does as well, and to discontinue use immediately if you get an allergic hive reaction from taking it. I think it is possible to be allergic to, or have adverse reactions (including hives) to any medication.

Can you talk to a doctor about this?

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[Michi8]

Given that the hives started after taking Zyrtec, it's possible that it is the cause. The side effects listed for the drug don't include hives, but your son could also be reacting to one of the components of the medicine besides the active ingredient. It's worth talking to the pharmacist and your doctor.

Michelle

[azmom3]

We did talk to our pediatrician about the possibility of it being from zyrtec and he basically said anything's possible, but he doubts it. We love our allergy dr., so maybe I'll run it by him again. He thought they'd go away after a few weeks of both zyrtec and singulair,so I guess I should let him know it's not helping. Thanks for your input.

[Michi8]

We did talk to our pediatrician about the possibility of it being from zyrtec and he basically said anything's possible, but he doubts it. We love our allergy dr., so maybe I'll run it by him again. He thought they'd go away after a few weeks of both zyrtec and singulair,so I guess I should let him know it's not helping. Thanks for your input.

Zyrtec is supposed to help with hives, so I can see why he doubts it...but anything is possible! My daughter is taking Reactine (Zyrtec is the US version of Reactine). It seems to help with her itchiness, but doesn't help much with keeping her eczema at bay.

Michelle

[GFBetsy]

Don't have much helpful info to add, but just wanted to say I hope you can figure things out. And, though I'm not positive, I wouldn't be surprised if stress is playing at least a small part in the reaction - it's possible that the added stress (and it sounds like he's had a lot of added stress recently) has been enough to decrease the ability of his immune system to deal with his other allergies.

[Simply-V]

I'd be interested in knowing more about the allergic test results from your sons testing. You said a few of them took days to heal? Any idea which ones those were?

The fact that your son is allergic to all grasses makes him a good candidate to be allergic to grass grains. Doesn't mean he needs to go gluten-free, but does mean that you should probably eliminate all grass grains from his diet and then introduce them back one by one to see if he reacts specifically to any of them. This includes corn, rice, cane sugar as well as the "gluten grains". Gluten may not be the problem at all. Of the grass grains, I'm specifially only allergic to corn as a food. I did test allergic to all grasses btw, but when tested for grass grains on food allergies I am allergic to none except corn and even corn didn't show up right away. Food/Diet testing has confirmed this. I don't have any problems with gluten. (also corn doesn't reliably show up on food allergy tests, only reliable testing is through diet.)

Zyrtec can cause hives, especially if something in the ingredients of the syrup is something that your son is terribly allergic to. I cannot take Zyrtec because of the corn issue, but with your son could be something else. You may want to try removing the Zyrtec (warning it takes about 2-3 days to fully flush it from the body) and see what happens esp if the hives started after starting the Zyrtec.

Stress can cause hives as well, and if its stress then benadryl/zyrtec/antihistamines won't be helping much unless the side effect of sleepyness is calming him.

Mono may have kick started his allergies (which were probably always there but took larger doses of the allergen to get these results, and your son just didn't get into that much before). Mono really does a number on a person's immune system, weakening it greatly. Its possible that once the mono healed, that the body stayed in "attack mode" and now is centering its attention on allergies which used to be a minor problem making it a big issue.

The shampoo could also be a problem. Who knows.

The problems in school sound like your son is having trouble concentrating which can be due to allergic reactions and the emotional stress of loss (grandpa and dog) probably don't help matters. Its also possible that the antihistamines are making him sleepy and thus hard time concentrating as well.

Because of his problems with grasses. Honestly, I'd remove all grains from his diet for at least a week (probably two). Then add one back in every 3 days (keeping some benadryl handy) to see if he reacts. When adding them back in try to keep the "testing" as pure as possible. Like plain oatmeal, plain whole grain barley, etc. Btw cane sugar is also a grass/grain and should be avoided during this time as well.

Anyway.. thats my.. er .. ok.. more than two cents.

[azmom3]

I'd be interested in knowing more about the allergic test results from your sons testing. You said a few of them took days to heal? Any idea which ones those were?

The fact that your son is allergic to all grasses makes him a good candidate to be allergic to grass grains. Doesn't mean he needs to go gluten-free, but does mean that you should probably eliminate all grass grains from his diet and then introduce them back one by one to see if he reacts specifically to any of them. This includes corn, rice, cane sugar as well as the "gluten grains". Gluten may not be the problem at all. Of the grass grains, I'm specifially only allergic to corn as a food. I did test allergic to all grasses btw, but when tested for grass grains on food allergies I am allergic to none except corn and even corn didn't show up right away. Food/Diet testing has confirmed this. I don't have any problems with gluten. (also corn doesn't reliably show up on food allergy tests, only reliable testing is through diet.)

Zyrtec can cause hives, especially if something in the ingredients of the syrup is something that your son is terribly allergic to. I cannot take Zyrtec because of the corn issue, but with your son could be something else. You may want to try removing the Zyrtec (warning it takes about 2-3 days to fully flush it from the body) and see what happens esp if the hives started after starting the Zyrtec.

Stress can cause hives as well, and if its stress then benadryl/zyrtec/antihistamines won't be helping much unless the side effect of sleepyness is calming him.

Mono may have kick started his allergies (which were probably always there but took larger doses of the allergen to get these results, and your son just didn't get into that much before). Mono really does a number on a person's immune system, weakening it greatly. Its possible that once the mono healed, that the body stayed in "attack mode" and now is centering its attention on allergies which used to be a minor problem making it a big issue.

The shampoo could also be a problem. Who knows.

The problems in school sound like your son is having trouble concentrating which can be due to allergic reactions and the emotional stress of loss (grandpa and dog) probably don't help matters. Its also possible that the antihistamines are making him sleepy and thus hard time concentrating as well.

Because of his problems with grasses. Honestly, I'd remove all grains from his diet for at least a week (probably two). Then add one back in every 3 days (keeping some benadryl handy) to see if he reacts. When adding them back in try to keep the "testing" as pure as possible. Like plain oatmeal, plain whole grain barley, etc. Btw cane sugar is also a grass/grain and should be avoided during this time as well.

Anyway.. thats my.. er .. ok.. more than two cents.

Wow, thank you! Here's what his allergen screening skin test says for some of the biggies (size in mm): bermuda grass, 30

perennial rye grass, 25

russian thistle, 30

mesquite, 20

olive, 35

ash, 25

I believe these were the ones that had welts that lasted a week.

He had a handful of things that showed no reaction and others that were between 5 and 15.

I'm stopping zyrtec tonight and will wait and watch through the weekend. If they go away, I will give it to him again and see what happens. The most he's gone w/o hives is a day, if even that, so I should know pretty quickly. I need to find out a little more about the grains to avoid and any hidden sources as this would be completely new and I want to make sure I do it right.

Thanks for all the info. Let me know what you think based on the allergies I listed.

[Simply-V]

ok.. I've been doing some research and well.. I'm not sure how helpful this is going to be. But well I'll share it anyway.

First there is Concomitant foods. Aka foods that make other allergies worse or can cause you to react to other things.

Open Original Shared Link

Grass allergies: Legumes, Beans, Peas, Soybean, Cottonseed.

I'm not certain how reliable this is. I can't/don't eat any of those (see my sig for exceptions) but I'm not sure its entirely related to my grass allergies. *shrugs*

The rest of this info I got from basically these two sites:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Basically this is a family tree breakdown of things your son majorly reacted to. The grasses I broke down into Family (all grasses) and subfamilies and then tribes. Plants within Tribes are the plant equivalent of siblings. Plants in the same Subfamilies are first cousins. and the Family is more extended relatives.

Grass (Poaceae family) - Bermuda and Rye come from this family as well as all grasses.

Closest Relatives for Bermuda Grass (Chloridoideae) (similar subfamilies: panicoid, arundinoid, chloridoid, and centothecoid)

These 4 groups comprise these foods:

Panicoid: Andropogoneae tribe: Lemon Grass, Maize/Corn, Sugar Cane, Sorghum. Paniceae tribe: Millet

Arundinoid: European Cane (woodwind intrument reeds)

Chroridoid: Bermuda grass - no foods I could find.

Centothecoid: (couldn't find)

Closest Relatives for Perennial Rye Grass (Poeae tribe of the Pooid): (close related to the bambusoid, oryzoid, and pooid)

Bambosoid/Oryzoid: Bamboo, Rice, Wild Rice

Pooid:

Aveneue tribe: Oats

Triticeue tribe: Barley, Rye, Triticale, Wheat/Spelt/Durum

Poeae tribe: Perennial Rye, fescue, no food found

Closest Relatives for Russian Thistle (Salsola kali):

Swiss Chard

Sugar Beet

Lambs Quarters

Quinoa

Spinach

Closest Relatives for Mesquite (Prosopis laevigata): acacia? gum arabic?

Olive is closely related to an Ash, as well as lilac & jasmine.

Ash - there is another ash tree that is of the rose family, which is related to most berries/fruits. Not sure which Ash he was tested for.

Cross-reactant foods: (not sure how reliable this is) Supposedly the first listed is the most possible to cross react to. I am allergic to grasses. I've never liked melon (cept watermelon) but I do fine with the rest of the list.

Grass: Melon, Tomato, Watermelon, Orange, Swiss Chard

___

Anyway I realize this is very confusing and a lot of information, but it might help narrow somethings down or it might be completely useless.

With the Rye grass allergy, I'd definately look at barley, rye, triticale, wheat and oats to see if he reacts to any of them. Corn, cane, etc might be an issue with the Bermuda grass, but its not as close of a relation.

Also maybe watch his intake of quinoa/spinach to see if its an issue (Russian Thistle).

I'd stop using olive oil if you are. It may not be a problem, but depending on where you live the chances of you living in close range of olive trees to cause his body to be that sensitive to olive would be unusual. So I suspect he may be having problems with olives/olive oil. Only avoidance and retrial will let you know for certain.

Anyway, thats my take on his results that you shared. Keep us posted on how he's doing.

[Rusla]

I have a friend that gets hives just when his teeth start to decay, before they even get real bad or painful, he gets them everywhere. By the time his tooth starts to hurt a litte or get sensitive his hives are horrible. Perhaps it is a dental or infection reaction to teeth or something else. I would have it checked out for things like that.

[azmom3]

Thanks everyone! I just hope we can figure it out soon.

[penguin]

I developed a wheat/gluten allergy suddenly, and had hives constantly. It sucked. Allergy testing is probably your best bet, failing that, an elimination diet.

BTW, I'm not allergic to ANY grasses, ironically.

[azmom3]

I developed a wheat/gluten allergy suddenly, and had hives constantly. It sucked. Allergy testing is probably your best bet, failing that, an elimination diet.

BTW, I'm not allergic to ANY grasses, ironically.

This is one of the things I've been wondering...can you just develop them all of a sudden like this? Or are you more susceptible to developing allergies after mono? We see the allergist on Monday for my other son, so I'll ask at that time what he thinks.

[Simply-V]

This is one of the things I've been wondering...can you just develop them all of a sudden like this? Or are you more susceptible to developing allergies after mono? We see the allergist on Monday for my other son, so I'll ask at that time what he thinks.

You can develop an allergy at any time.. but it seems severe diseases often are a catalyst.. Not a cause.. but a catalyst..

Such as someone might have been fine eating the equivalent of 2 cups of wheat with no problems (over 2 cups they might have gotten stomach cramps or runny nose.. which they just ignored) before they got sick. After they got sick, their body couldn't handle the 2 cups of wheat it used to. So now they're noticing the allergy symptoms from smaller and smaller amounts of it, because their body isn't able to handle the allergen in the quantities it used to.

People develop allergies to foods for no apparent reason as well. It just "poof" happens.

[azmom3]

You can develop an allergy at any time.. but it seems severe diseases often are a catalyst.. Not a cause.. but a catalyst..

Such as someone might have been fine eating the equivalent of 2 cups of wheat with no problems (over 2 cups they might have gotten stomach cramps or runny nose.. which they just ignored) before they got sick. After they got sick, their body couldn't handle the 2 cups of wheat it used to. So now they're noticing the allergy symptoms from smaller and smaller amounts of it, because their body isn't able to handle the allergen in the quantities it used to.

People develop allergies to foods for no apparent reason as well. It just "poof" happens.

thanks, Simply V!

[shai76]

I would definitly get his blood tested for as many allergies as you can, food and blood. I used to be just allergic to milk, than I started getting hives and asthma every day. I went and got tested and it turned out i was now allergic to milk and eggs. A couple years later I started getting hives, eczema and asthma again. After having my blood tested I was allergic to everything BUT peanuts. If he is allergic to milk, zyrtec will bother him because it has lactose from cows milk in it. Lactose might just be the sugar, but it still contains cow's milk proteins. There is no way to seperate the allergic proteins from the different parts of milk, like lactose. They use it to make it less water soluable. Most tablet type medications contain lactose. I try to take gel tabs whenever I can.

Hives are an immune response, so it is possible it is not an allergy. It could just be his immune system all out of wack from the mono...but with your family history of food allergies I would have him tested.

[azmom3]

I would definitly get his blood tested for as many allergies as you can, food and blood. I used to be just allergic to milk, than I started getting hives and asthma every day. I went and got tested and it turned out i was now allergic to milk and eggs. A couple years later I started getting hives, eczema and asthma again. After having my blood tested I was allergic to everything BUT peanuts. If he is allergic to milk, zyrtec will bother him because it has lactose from cows milk in it. Lactose might just be the sugar, but it still contains cow's milk proteins. There is no way to seperate the allergic proteins from the different parts of milk, like lactose. They use it to make it less water soluable. Most tablet type medications contain lactose. I try to take gel tabs whenever I can.

Hives are an immune response, so it is possible it is not an allergy. It could just be his immune system all out of wack from the mono...but with your family history of food allergies I would have him tested.

We never suspected food allergies before this, but will definitely get him tested for as much as possible. Thanks!

[Michi8]

If he is allergic to milk, zyrtec will bother him because it has lactose from cows milk in it. Lactose might just be the sugar, but it still contains cow's milk proteins. There is no way to seperate the allergic proteins from the different parts of milk, like lactose. They use it to make it less water soluable. Most tablet type medications contain lactose. I try to take gel tabs whenever I can.

Just to clarify: Zyrtec tablets do have lactose, but the children's syrup does not.

Michelle

[Simply-V]

Just to clarify: Zyrtec tablets do have lactose, but the children's syrup does not.

Michelle

The syrup has cane, corn, artificial flavors, and glycerin (which could be numberous things)

[Michi8]

The syrup has cane, corn, artificial flavors, and glycerin (which could be numberous things)

This is what Pfizer says about their syrup...lots of artifcial stuff and questionable ingredients (just as with many medicinal products):

ZYRTEC syrup is a colorless to slightly yellow syrup containing cetirizine hydrochloride at a

concentration of 1 mg/mL (5 mg/5 mL) for oral administration. The pH is between 4 and 5. The

inactive ingredients of the syrup are: banana flavor; glacial acetic acid; glycerin; grape flavor;

methylparaben; propylene glycol; propylparaben; sodium acetate; sugar syrup; and water.

In Canada, Reactine is the equivalent. Pfizer says this about Reactine syrup:

Ingredients

Medicinal Ingredient: Cetirizine Hydrochloride 5 mg/5 mL.

Non-medicinal Ingredients (alphabetically): Acetic acid, artificial banana and grape flavours, glycerin, parabens, propylene glycol, sodium acetate, sucrose, water.

Michelle

[Blitz]

My 10 year old son, who never had even a single hive in his life, all of a sudden started getting them about 3 months ago and has had them virtually every day since. Some only last minutes, but the huge ones (3 inches in diameter), take 4-5 days to go away completely, but they always reappear somewhere else. He usually only has 4-6 at a time. Blood test was negative for celiac, but we plan on trying the gluten-free diet anyways (but haven't yet), as he has quite a few symptoms. He was also tested by blood for tons of different things, all which came back negative. His IgA was a little low, so I got a second opinion from our allergist, who said it wasn't low enough to cause much concern, but that we should retest in 6-12 months to be on the safe side. Here are some things that have been going on...would any of these be the source?

He was just "recovering" from mono when the hives started, although he has not seemed the same since....very depressed, pale, big bags under his eyes, very tired, poor appetite , out of control behavior problems, etc. Can you start getting hives for no other reason than from having mono? What do you do about it? He's already taking zyrtec and singulair every day and he uses ice packs or frozen washcloths to relieve the itch when they're really bad.

Wow, this sounds like a recreation of my experience. Except I was 18 when I got the hives, so started taking Benadryl. During this time I was tired, fatigued, low energy, etc., but assumed it was the "drowsy" effect of the Benadryl. The hives went away (and returned for good about two year ago), so I stopped taking Benadryl, but the tiredness and fatigue never went away and has got progressively worse over the years.

I've been tested by an allergist, most recently about 2 years back (when the hives returned), and the only things I'm allergic to he could find were grasses (basically all of them), dust, dust mites and cats. Since it's winter here and I don't own any cats (though a friend recently got one), I'm a bit stumped about what's causing the hives.

I take Extra-Strength Reactine daily to keep them under control, and it works for the most part, but I worry about the long-term effects. After all, the box clearly says not to take them continuously (or something to that effect).

I'm a bit stressed at the moment, due to some health issues with other family members (Father and Grandfather simultaneously). However, I don't recall being that stressed two years ago when the hives returned, so I've all but rules that out.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I'll be interested to hear any additional suggestions others may have, as they may apply to both me and your son.

Good luck!

Geoff.

[ive]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I'll be interested to hear any additional suggestions others may have, as they may apply to both me and your son.

Good luck!

Geoff.

Hello Geoff,

I do not have hives (knock on wood), but I do have certain "allergic-like" reactions to chemicals in foods, specifically histamine and amine. Did you consider Chronic Urticaria? Histamine-restricted diet is known to help manage this condition without antihistamines or with the minimal amount of antihistamies. You can read more about urticaria and histamine-restricted diet here: Open Original Shared Link

Also here is an article that describes Histamine Intolerance and also might be helful: Open Original Shared Link

If that's not enough and you still have symptoms on a histamine-restricted diet, you may look into Failsafe diet (a diet low in salicylates, amines, glutamates, etc). You can read more about Failsafe here: Open Original Shared Link

and here: Open Original Shared Link

That is what I did, I started with histamine-restricted diet and it did seem to help, but even when I was avoiding histamine-rich food completely I would still have reactions. I was able to correlate my reactions with the amount of animal protein I ate the previous day and then one of the members here (Rachel-24) gave me a link to the Failsafe diet (a diet low in salicylates, amines, glutamates, etc). Apparently I am sensitive to amines as well so I have to watch my amine intake also.

Hope that helps.

[AliB]

Hi Geoff - you didn't say whether you are already gluten-free or have tried it. Many do find that they are also intolerant of other foods and dairy can also be problematic for many. That is where following an elimination-type diet may help to pinpoint what it is that is triggering your reaction.

It would seem that you are getting some kind of histamine reaction which may suggest gut damage and 'Leaky Gut Syndrome'.

Many with skin problems - eczema, psoriasis, DH and other rashes have found that they often eventually clear up or become much improved when gluten-free or following elimination diets.

[Jestgar]

It would seem that you are getting some kind of histamine reaction which may suggest gut damage and 'Leaky Gut Syndrome'.

Please avoid diagnosing people over the internet.