Should Celiacs Get Flu Shots?

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I have been wading through the links provided by Ursa (it's quite time-consuming), and this one, from the BBC, caught my eye--it's a transcript from a radio talk show, with a a pediatrician answering questions about vaccines:

"Samantha Robinson, Camberley, Surrey: Both my sons (aged 5 and 3) have had the MMR vaccine with no ill-effects. My 5 year-old (6 in April) has not, however received the booster. I understand that his first vaccine will give him 90% protection. With all the current controversy does he really need to have the booster or will it be to his detriment not to do so.

Dr Vas Novelli:

He should have a booster. The reason why the booster was introduced was because about 5% of patients receiving MMR vaccines don't mount a response so they're left unprotected. We haven't got the availability to be able to take blood samples from every child to see which ones have responded and which ones haven't responded. So in most countries what they've introduced is a booster programme. There shouldn't be any problem with this child having a booster and I would urge this mother to let this child have the booster"

So, they are re-inoculating ALL children, when only 5% did not mount a response? This booster that they are talking about is the one that (supposedly) they won't let your child attend school unless he has had it.

[tarnalberry]

There are some ... interesting ... decisions about vaccination programs that are a bit frustrating. It would be nice if they could determine who has mounted a response to a vaccine and who hasn't (not sure if this is possible), and if they would better investigate proper 'vaccine logistics' on the human end. Call it tailored vaccination, if you will.

I know one of the reasons they bunch of giving all the vaccines at once is because they want it to be as "convenient" as possible so that as many people as possible will get vaccinated. That's the point of vaccinations for epidemic causing diseases - they don't work if you leave non-trivial portions of the population unvaccinated. But to expect that *everyone* is going to be a lazy-something and won't spend the extra time to bring in their child a little more often... Well, that's trading one stupidity for another. If they improved vaccine delivery methods (which I think they're working on) that would help as well.

It's also helpful to know - and spread the word - that there is the possibility of single-use innoculations that avoid the preservative issues that larger ampules have. You may have to pay out of pocket, but being aware of these options is vital, particularly in a consumer market, which medicine still is, to some degree.

[darlindeb25]

Shirley, are you saying that people who do not get the flu shot should not go out??? Or did you mean that people who are coming down with an illness should not go to a nursing home? This would be the ideal solution, but impossible to implement, as you are contagious BEFORE you have symptoms.

Exactly Fiddle-Faddle! Besides the fact that quite often it is the workers in the nursing homes that bring the disease in. Most people who visit relatives in nursing homes are very careful, especially if they have been exposed. Of course, as Fiddle-Faddle says, many times a person doesn't know they have a virus until it's too late to not expose others.

There is no simple answer to all of this. If you think the flu shot is a Godsend, then get one, if you feel a flu shot is dangerous, then refrain from getting one. There will always be controversy over this subject, yet we who choose not to get the shot, our opinion is just as substantial as those of you who choose to get it.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

It would be nice if they could determine who has mounted a response to a vaccine and who hasn't (not sure if this is possible),

They can easily do this (and they will do it is you request it)--all they need is a blood draw to do a titre.

One complication is that, just because your immune system doesn't make antibodies, that doesn't mean you will get the disease. I don't understand the mechanism here, but I know a pediatric nurse who has never had chicken pox. As a pediatric nurse in a large hospital, she has obviously been exposes, and she has had 3 vaccines for it, but according to the bloodwork, she doesn't manufacture antibodies for it.

[lovegrov]

"...but I personally know of DOZENS who have had adverse reactions to the flu shot, and they all say htat they will not get it any more."

I'm just baffled that you would know DOZENS of people who have had adverse reactions. I personally don't know of a single person (I'm sure I do know somebody but I don't quiz people about whether they get flu shots and how they react, it's just not a topic of conversation). My wife is a nurse and most everybody she works with gets the flu shot and she can think of just one person who has had a reaction -- nothing serious but she decided to quit getting them. We do know people who just don't get the shot, which, of course, is perfectly fine.

I do know that some people DO have reactions to flu shots. I'm not doubting that. But if you know more people who have had problems with the shot than people who have had serious problems with the flu, I'd be willing to wager you're in the very distinct minority. In my case, I've never had any sort of reaction. On the other hand, the last time I had the flu (which was also the last time I didn't get the shot), I missed six days of work and was pretty much worthless for 10 days. My wife had it at the same time and our household came to a complete standstill.

richard

[cmom]

I work in an elementary school and have gotten the flu shot at least the past six years. I chose this option after coming down with the flu twice within 6 weeks and the second episode was horrible. I have had no adverse reaction from it and have not had the flu since beginning the shot. However, I also work with some who choose not to get it. It's a personal call, but I will continue with it.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

"...but I personally know of DOZENS who have had adverse reactions to the flu shot, and they all say htat they will not get it any more."

I'm just baffled that you would know DOZENS of people who have had adverse reactions. I personally don't know of a single person (I'm sure I do know somebody but I don't quiz people about whether they get flu shots and how they react, it's just not a topic of conversation).,

the last time I had the flu (which was also the last time I didn't get the shot), I missed six days of work

richard

Like I said before, there may be some kind of geographical part to the equation. It might be related that I am in some kind of autism beltway here. One woman I know said that there are 10 kids ON HER STREET ALONE diagnosed with autism. I don't know if we all go to the same doctor, got the same batch of vaccines, or live near the same power lines. There are a lot of unknowns.

Perhaps reactions to flu shots are a topic of conversation because so many of us have had them over here. When you have a bad reaction to something you expect would help you, you don't forget it, and you don't "chat about it casually," either. Most of us wanted to find out if we were the only ones who reacted, and we also wanted to find out why, and when we found out that a lot of people (at least, locally) were having the same problems, we wanted to protect others from the same fate.

You only missed 6 days? You were relatively lucky. The time I got sick after having the flu shot, I missed two and a half weeks of work--and I tend to go to work unless I'm literally too sick to get out of bed. Our orchestra did not offer ANY maternity leave, so I needed to save up my sick leave for that.

[tarnalberry]

and I tend to go to work unless I'm literally too sick to get out of bed.

this is one of the reasons why I *have* to get the flu shot. because people come in to work unless they can't get out of bed. no - I'm not blaming you personally. some work places condone this behavior and encourage it (even if they say they don't) by making it very hard on someone for being out sick. but with everyone and their brother and their brother's dog coming in to work sick, I've found myself getting up to three mutations of the *same* stupid bug! (at least that one was just a cold? never mind it gave me a severe case of bronchitis and left me sick for six weeks and on asthma meds for four months...)

and people think I'm odd for kicking the bathroom door open with my foot.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I do agree with you , Tiffany. When employers EXPECT you to show up unless you are on your deathbed, you are pretty much stuck showing up or losing your job. But in the meantime--everyone else gets your germs, and you get theirs. Then again, if you have kids, you've pretty much been exposed to all the germs, anyway.

For those of us who make our living onstage, we can't really argue--if I am sick for a rehearsal, do they get a sub for the rehearsal and then let me play the concert? Nah, doesn't work that way. If I miss 2 of the 4 rehearsals, I am stuck taking the whole week off so that whoever plays the rehearsals also plays the concerts. There goes my sick leave! And if I play all 4 rehearsals, how do they get a sub who has never seen the music before to come in and play the concerts if I am sick?

So, where I work, hardly anybody calls in sick unless they are really terribly ill.

I open the bathroom doors (actually al lthe doors) by sort of falling sideways into it. Looks weird, I bet! And I always wash my hands before leaving the building. I don't take the elevator, and I use my sleeve to turn doorknobs.

[shayesmom]

this is one of the reasons why I *have* to get the flu shot. because people come in to work unless they can't get out of bed. no - I'm not blaming you personally. some work places condone this behavior and encourage it (even if they say they don't) by making it very hard on someone for being out sick. but with everyone and their brother and their brother's dog coming in to work sick, I've found myself getting up to three mutations of the *same* stupid bug! (at least that one was just a cold? never mind it gave me a severe case of bronchitis and left me sick for six weeks and on asthma meds for four months...)

and people think I'm odd for kicking the bathroom door open with my foot.

This is so incredibly true. It's an incredible shame that work places condone this behavior and then everyone gets sick. And you find the same thing applies to schools. I have heard DOZENS of mothers say that if their child is sick and running a temp, they just give the child Motrin so that the fever goes down and they can send the kid to school. I've heard them joking that this way, "The fever won't reappear for 4-6 hours and I can still get to work or get some things done". Ugghh! It's so frustrating and just plain SAD that this is considered acceptable behavior for some.

As for vaccine reactions....my dd is in that group. We lost eggs and food colorings with a 1/2 dose of the flu shot. Dd had been fine with these for several months. Two weeks after being vaccinated, she began reacting to them. Haven't got them back either. I've talked to two doctors about this and both have said that dd shouldn't have any further vaccines due to new food allergies appearing so soon after being vaxed. We actually have a medical exemption. I visited the manufacturer's site of the flu vaccine dd had. Not only should egg allergic people avoid it, but there was mention that anyone with allergies to food colorings should too. I find that interesting since dd's began reacting to those two items so soon AFTER getting the shot.

For anyone interested, I found this site to be extremely helpful in wading through statistics on flu vaccine. Open Original Shared Link. This specific page does not list peer-reviewed studies...but the links will take you to sites that do. It also takes you to the CDC site for the real numbers on deaths attributed to flu. They are NOT in the "tens of thousands". Flu and pneumonia are generally lumped together when it comes to mortality. Flu deaths make up 1-4% of the "36,00 deaths" we hear of each year before vaccination season. I am not trying to make light of the deadly nature of flu. It is not something to be trivialized. However, I do feel that there should be more transparency as to the risks as well as benefits of vaccines. And people should be encouraged to make an informed decision and not be bullied, frightened or coerced into "opting in".

And for anyone who would like a good laugh (as it's good for your immune system ) . Please visit this site: Open Original Shared Link

[Electra]

Well I can tell you that I NEVER get the Flu. I always feel like sh!t but I'm the one cleaning up all the vomit in this house and I'm the ONLY one that NEVER gets it. I have a day care too, so (according to the studies-which I think most of them are bogus) we should have a higher incidence of infection here. We DO NOT actually have a higher incidence of infection here, so that just proves that not all statistics are accurate. My kids RARELY got the flu until they started school either. I think we build up ammunities since we are around so many other kids all the time.

My point here is that the ONE time I got a flu shot I got the flu really bad and vowed to NEVER get a flu shot again. My mother in law gets them every year and swears by them, but shortly after she gets it her stomach is upset and she's uncomfortable for days.

The flu shot will only help prevent the current strain and not the new strains anyways.

[tarnalberry]

The flu shot will only help prevent the current strain and not the new strains anyways and they are like antibiotics. The more of it you put in your system the more resilient the strain becomes and your body becomes less able to fight it!!

This is not the reason the flue shot only works against the current year's strain. It's because the flu mutates quickly even outside the pressures of the body, and there is generally a different strain every year. The body does not become less able to fight it, you are dealing with a different strain. (If the flu didn't migrate so quickly, you'd probably see the mutate to increasing resistance, but stay the same strain effect in just a few years. But the bugger moves *fast* - geographically speaking - and we get widely varying types from year to year, sometimes.)

Additionally, larger doses of antibiotics do not increase the chance of resistance development; it's just the opposite. A larger dose of antibiotics decreases the chance because there is a larger chance that a larger proportion of the population of bacteria will be wiped out at once, leaving fewer "mutant" bugs around. That's why you're supposed to "finish all your antibiotics, even if you feel better after only a few days".

[shayesmom]

I'm just baffled that you would know DOZENS of people who have had adverse reactions. I personally don't know of a single person (I'm sure I do know somebody but I don't quiz people about whether they get flu shots and how they react, it's just not a topic of conversation). My wife is a nurse and most everybody she works with gets the flu shot and she can think of just one person who has had a reaction -- nothing serious but she decided to quit getting them. We do know people who just don't get the shot, which, of course, is perfectly fine.

richard

This is kind of ironic, but yesterday seemed to be the day for me to hear about adverse reactions to the flu shot. I got THREE calls in one day from friends and relatives who were suffering through some pretty nasty reactions. One of them gets sick for 7 days each year he gets the shot....which is EVERY year as he is military and is required to be jabbed.

And perhaps this is just me....but I have 3 aunts who are nurses, 1 cousin who is an occupational therapist, another who is a high-risk OB/GYN...when it comes to my dd's reactions to the vaccines, I only talk to one of my aunt's about it. The rest I wouldn't care to discuss it with as they've gone on and on about how great they think the vaccines are. They've also been quite verbal in condemning those who don't vaccinate as being ignorant (probably because they feel more comfortable about expressing their opinions in front of family). Knowing their opinions and knowing that they get every vaccine available....I'm not highly inclined to bring up the topic as the discussion would go nowhere. Their experience is as valid as mine is. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that they are so gung-ho on the value they place in the shot that there's no room for a differing opinion or experience. And I guess that this is why the discussions on vaccinations here go absolutely nowhere on changing current attitudes. We all make decisions based upon our experiences...not on studies.

Perhaps there is something "demographical" going on. But like Fiddle-Faddle, I can also say that there's definitely something going on in our area as well. Perhaps there is something at work here as well that initiated the series of phone calls I received yesterday. One of the people who called was a nurse who is a friend of mine. He was calling to see what he could do to "neutralize" his reaction. I asked if he could report his adverse reaction and he has no clue where to go with that as it's not something that is covered prior to being given the shot. So I told him to go to VAERS and file a report. I pray that his reactions to the vaccines will not end up costing him in the future. His reactions have been pretty bad and I can only hope that he won't be one of the Guillaine Barre casualties down the road. In any case, he is not re-enlisting with the National Guard after his tour is over. And he's also looking into what he can do to avoid the other vaccines which the hospital is INSISTING he get to remain employed with them (chicken pox to be specific...even though he had the chicken pox as a child).

Maybe it's just me...but I really do believe that people should have a choice as to what they are being injected with. If you have bad reactions to a vaccine, you shouldn't be forced to submit to more. JMO

[Jestgar]

If he had chicken pox, he should be able to get an antibody titer to show that he's immune. Although that virus is one that never actually leaves your body, so maybe that confuses a titer. Not sure. Or maybe medical records documenting that he had the disease.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I didn't know that there was any way a non-medical-professional COULD file a report. My pediatrician did file a report about my oldest son's reaction, but that was only after his nurse blew me off 4 times. The 5th time, I demanded to speak to the doctor, and told the receptionist that I refused to speak to the nurse any more. The doctor (who knew me fairly well and knew I did not tend to exaggerate) agreed with me that it was indeed a reaction, and that he would report it to the CDC. I had no idea at that time that he could or should report it; I was calling because I was frantic at seeing my previously placid baby scream in agony non-stop for several hours.

[lovegrov]

"Maybe it's just me...but I really do believe that people should have a choice as to what they are being injected with. If you have bad reactions to a vaccine, you shouldn't be forced to submit to more. JMO"

You'll get no argument from me on this.

As for the hospital, I can't understand why they would require a chicken pox vaccine. My wife's employer certainly doesn't require the flu shot. But there are good reasons for some others, such as the hepititis vaccine.

richard

[Fiddle-Faddle]

But there are good reasons for some others, such as the hepititis vaccine.

richard

I can see the logic in a hospital's requiring its workers to have a hepatitis vaccine. But to make it mandatory for a four-hour-old newborn?

[prinsessa]

I said no to the Hep B vaccine for my youngest. I also spaced out some of his shots. He gets sick EVERY time he gets vaxed. It is strange since my DD never got sick from vaccines. No one in my house gets the flu shot and none of us have had the flu.

Now since someone brought up going to work sick....how come I hear of people who never miss a day of work or school? I remember a group of kids on Oprah who never missed school once all the way from K-12 grade. Were they never sick? Or did they go to school even though they were sick? I remember my husband's boss being a little upset that he missed a day of work when he had a bad cold. He decided to go to work the next day, but his boss sent him home early because he saw that he really was sick.

[shayesmom]

If he had chicken pox, he should be able to get an antibody titer to show that he's immune. Although that virus is one that never actually leaves your body, so maybe that confuses a titer. Not sure. Or maybe medical records documenting that he had the disease.

I brought those same points up to him and he talked to the hospital about it. They told him he needed to keep current on all vaccines and boosters unless he could the medical record from a doctor stating that he did indeed have the chicken pox. His parents never took him to the doctor when he had it as one of his siblings got it and it was confirmed by the GP.....and then he and his sister also got it. Their parents didn't bring the others in as they knew what was going on and it passed in a short amount of time. This is back in the days when if one kid caught chicken pox, everyone brought their kids over to play so they'd all get it! lol! So no "medical" documentation there.

He did ask about titres and was told that it would just be "easier" to get the shot...."just to be safe".

"As for the hospital, I can't understand why they would require a chicken pox vaccine. My wife's employer certainly doesn't require the flu shot. But there are good reasons for some others, such as the hepititis vaccine"

I don't quite "get" this either. And I couldn't tell you if this is an isolated problem with this particular hospital or if it's something that has become the norm in Ohio. He is just starting out in his field of work and it's tough going in new and immediately questioning/challenging (depending on perspective) the higher ups. He does like the facility, the pay rate and the people he'd be working with. But he's been having some medical issues with the vaccines he gets through the military and was hoping to get out of further vaccines as much as possible once out (in a few more months). I can really relate to him on this. Having vaccine reactions is a VERY concerning issue to deal with. You're basically damned if you do and damned if you don't (vaccinate).

"I didn't know that there was any way a non-medical-professional COULD file a report."

You can file a report on-line with VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System). I believe that you have up to 3 years to file a report after vaccination injury. VAERS has claimed that only about 1-10% of all actual adverse reactions are being reported by physicians. I'm not sure on their methodology and how they follow up with people who are filing their own reports. I believe that if you file a report, you do need to provide the vaccine and batch #....another reason why you should read the package insert...AND keep a copy of your medical file. I imagine that it's very hard on physicians to pinpoint an adverse reaction with multiple vaccines being given to infants. Which one is the baby reacting to? I couldn't imagine trying to figure that one out! There are some visits when they can receive 7 or more vaccines in a 3 shot dose.

One of the moms on another board I am on posted about her dd having a really high fever, unresponsive to Motrin, with yesterday's innoculation. She got the MMR, chickenpox AND flu shot all at once. The child is only 15 months old. Now how do you go back and figure out if this is normal or not? And if it's not....how do you "fix" it when you can't separate out the factors? Her pedi is telling her to wait it out and not to call unless the fever goes over 104 or is present for several days. As a mother, I CRINGE when I hear that. Normal or not, it's a very scary thing to live through.