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Should Celiacs Get Flu Shots?


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#46 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 06:48 AM

"I have never met anybody who had such a severe case of flu that they were hospitalized."

All you have to do is visit a hospital during flu season; you'll see them. Generally it's the respiratory problems caused by the flu that put people in the hospital, not the fever and achiness.



Richard, I did NOT say that there are no people hospitalized by flu. What I did say is that I have never met anyone who was--and I work in such close proximity with 100 people, we all know when one of our colleagues is hospitalized and why. The same goes for my husband's workplace, as well as the parents of the other children at our children's schools, as well as our synagogue. Nobody in any of those groups has ever been hospitalized with the flu--but I personally know of DOZENS who have had adverse reactions to the flu shot, and they all say htat they will not get it any more.

The people who are hospitalized with flu are usually either elderly and frail, or else suffering from something serious in the first place that puts them at risk from any common virus.
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#47 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:18 AM

Actually, I lost my grandmother from complications due to flu. Someone decided to go and visit her when they were just coming down with the flu, but already contagious. A flu shot may have prevented that ... by that I mean the person who carried it into the Seniors home and passed it along to several residents there.
Please kindly remember, that if you prefer to risk the flu, that you stay home and leave other inocent people out of your decision. Grandmother couldn't have the shot because of an allergy to eggs.


Shirley, are you saying that people who do not get the flu shot should not go out??? Or did you mean that people who are coming down with an illness should not go to a nursing home? This would be the ideal solution, but impossible to implement, as you are contagious BEFORE you have symptoms.

Senior homes, like hospitals, are hotbeds of infections of every kind. Also, like hospitals, they are understaffed. Unlike hospitals, the rooms tend to be kept very warm and underventilated.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there was a chicken pox epidemic at our local elementary school. I found out by talking to other mothers and a nurse from the county health department. THE SCHOOL AND NEWSPAPERS KEPT IT TOTALLY HUSHED UP. They thought that, since most of the kids had had the vaccine, it wasn't anything to worry about. Just think, if somebody's close relative or friend at that school had been undergoing chemo, or had another reason to be at risk, what a tragedy there might have been. Even though these kids had had the vaccine, THEY were still contagious to others!

My point is, the vaccines are not a magic bullet. Even if we put aside the issue of adverse reactions, they are not preventing the spread of disease. Yes, most of these students had much milder cases than they would have had without the vaccine--but because their cases were so mild, their mothers sent them to school, to extra curricular activities, and around the community when they were contagious. That is potentially a very dangerous thing.

Your grandmother may very well have been infected by someone who did receive the flu shot, and had such a mild case, they felt well enough to be out and about. The flu shot does not keep you from spreading infection.

I want to stress, again, that I am not anti-vaccine. I am not saying that nobody should get the flu shot. My point all along has been that in the media, the risks of the vaccine are severely downplayed; the risks of the flu to the average healthy person are exaggerated, and the flu shot has been very aggressively marketed. Nobody is spending big bucks to advertise what can happen when you have an adverse reaction to a vaccine. They ARE spending big bucks to sell the vaccines, and, in many cases, to FORCE vaccine compliance.

Shirley, how would you have felt if your grandmother had been forced to take the flu shot even though she was allergic to eggs? That happens every day. When my husband served in the military, he was forced to submit to vaccines--they would not tell him what was in them, and he was allergic to eggs and other things as well.

I have NEVER been asked if there were food allergies anywhere in our family when it was time for my babies to get shots (like, when they were 4 hours old). The years that I received the flu shot, I was not asked if I had any food allergies; I knew I had had an allergic reaction to thimerosal in an eyedrop 25 years ago, and have said it every time I have gone to the doctor--but nobody told me that it was in the flu shot.

Richard, you can put blind trust in the medical system all you want. But please don't shoot me down if I tell the other side of the story. My experience is every bit as valid as yours.
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#48 Carriefaith

 
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:15 AM

If you are second guessing the flu shot try eating anti viral foods such as garlic and onions. I personally got the flu shot this year, but I also eat lots of garlic!

http://botanical.com...flu_season.html
http://quanta-gaia.o...erOfGarlic.html
http://www.whfoods.c...f...ice&dbid=60
http://www.whfoods.c...#healthbenefits
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Carrie Faith

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#49 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:51 AM

If you are second guessing the flu shot try eating anti viral foods such as garlic and onions. I personally got the flu shot this year, but I also eat lots of garlic!

http://botanical.com...flu_season.html
http://quanta-gaia.o...erOfGarlic.html
http://www.whfoods.c...f...ice&dbid=60
http://www.whfoods.c...#healthbenefits


Good point! I believe ginger has antiviral properties, too.
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#50 plantime

 
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 01:43 PM

I get a flu shot almost every year, and prior to doing that I have gotten the flu. Not some virus that's going around, but the can't breath-continuous fever-takes weeks to recover-flu. It is unbelievably horrible with hallucinations and the clear knowledge that you are going to die if you don't force yourself to take one more breath.

I suspect that most of the people who say "I got the flu after getting a flu shot" either had some other minor virus, or had a greatly attenuated version of the flu because of some protection given them by their flu shot.

If you've ever had a full blown "flu" you never forget, and you don't chat about it casually.



AMEN!! I can't have the vaccine, I am allergic to eggs. I did get full-blown influenza for Christmas in 2003. I will never forget it, nor will I ever call a stomach problem the flu!
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Dessa

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#51 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 08:06 PM

I have been wading through the links provided by Ursa (it's quite time-consuming), and this one, from the BBC, caught my eye--it's a transcript from a radio talk show, with a a pediatrician answering questions about vaccines:

"Samantha Robinson, Camberley, Surrey: Both my sons (aged 5 and 3) have had the MMR vaccine with no ill-effects. My 5 year-old (6 in April) has not, however received the booster. I understand that his first vaccine will give him 90% protection. With all the current controversy does he really need to have the booster or will it be to his detriment not to do so.


Dr Vas Novelli:
He should have a booster. The reason why the booster was introduced was because about 5% of patients receiving MMR vaccines don't mount a response so they're left unprotected. We haven't got the availability to be able to take blood samples from every child to see which ones have responded and which ones haven't responded. So in most countries what they've introduced is a booster programme. There shouldn't be any problem with this child having a booster and I would urge this mother to let this child have the booster"

So, they are re-inoculating ALL children, when only 5% did not mount a response? This booster that they are talking about is the one that (supposedly) they won't let your child attend school unless he has had it.:blink:
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#52 tarnalberry

 
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:02 PM

There are some ... interesting ... decisions about vaccination programs that are a bit frustrating. It would be nice if they could determine who has mounted a response to a vaccine and who hasn't (not sure if this is possible), and if they would better investigate proper 'vaccine logistics' on the human end. Call it tailored vaccination, if you will. :)

I know one of the reasons they bunch of giving all the vaccines at once is because they want it to be as "convenient" as possible so that as many people as possible will get vaccinated. That's the point of vaccinations for epidemic causing diseases - they don't work if you leave non-trivial portions of the population unvaccinated. But to expect that *everyone* is going to be a lazy-something and won't spend the extra time to bring in their child a little more often... Well, that's trading one stupidity for another. If they improved vaccine delivery methods (which I think they're working on) that would help as well.

It's also helpful to know - and spread the word - that there is the possibility of single-use innoculations that avoid the preservative issues that larger ampules have. You may have to pay out of pocket, but being aware of these options is vital, particularly in a consumer market, which medicine still is, to some degree.
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Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"
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#53 darlindeb25

 
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Posted 07 January 2007 - 04:04 AM

Shirley, are you saying that people who do not get the flu shot should not go out??? Or did you mean that people who are coming down with an illness should not go to a nursing home? This would be the ideal solution, but impossible to implement, as you are contagious BEFORE you have symptoms.

Exactly Fiddle-Faddle! Besides the fact that quite often it is the workers in the nursing homes that bring the disease in. Most people who visit relatives in nursing homes are very careful, especially if they have been exposed. Of course, as Fiddle-Faddle says, many times a person doesn't know they have a virus until it's too late to not expose others.

There is no simple answer to all of this. If you think the flu shot is a Godsend, then get one, if you feel a flu shot is dangerous, then refrain from getting one. There will always be controversy over this subject, yet we who choose not to get the shot, our opinion is just as substantial as those of you who choose to get it.
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Deb
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We urge all doctors to take time to listen to your patients.. don't "isolate" symptoms but look at the whole spectrum. If a patient tells you s/he feels as if s/he's falling apart and "nothing seems to be working properly", chances are s/he's right!

"The calm river of your life approaches the rocky chute of the rapids - flow on through. You are the same water. The rocks cannot hurt you. Remember, now and then, that you are the water and not the boat. Flow on!

#54 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 07 January 2007 - 05:03 AM

It would be nice if they could determine who has mounted a response to a vaccine and who hasn't (not sure if this is possible),



They can easily do this (and they will do it is you request it)--all they need is a blood draw to do a titre.

One complication is that, just because your immune system doesn't make antibodies, that doesn't mean you will get the disease. I don't understand the mechanism here, but I know a pediatric nurse who has never had chicken pox. As a pediatric nurse in a large hospital, she has obviously been exposes, and she has had 3 vaccines for it, but according to the bloodwork, she doesn't manufacture antibodies for it. :blink:
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#55 lovegrov

 
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Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:16 AM

"...but I personally know of DOZENS who have had adverse reactions to the flu shot, and they all say htat they will not get it any more."

I'm just baffled that you would know DOZENS of people who have had adverse reactions. I personally don't know of a single person (I'm sure I do know somebody but I don't quiz people about whether they get flu shots and how they react, it's just not a topic of conversation). My wife is a nurse and most everybody she works with gets the flu shot and she can think of just one person who has had a reaction -- nothing serious but she decided to quit getting them. We do know people who just don't get the shot, which, of course, is perfectly fine.

I do know that some people DO have reactions to flu shots. I'm not doubting that. But if you know more people who have had problems with the shot than people who have had serious problems with the flu, I'd be willing to wager you're in the very distinct minority. In my case, I've never had any sort of reaction. On the other hand, the last time I had the flu (which was also the last time I didn't get the shot), I missed six days of work and was pretty much worthless for 10 days. My wife had it at the same time and our household came to a complete standstill.

richard
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#56 cmom

 
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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:28 AM

I work in an elementary school and have gotten the flu shot at least the past six years. I chose this option after coming down with the flu twice within 6 weeks and the second episode was horrible. I have had no adverse reaction from it and have not had the flu since beginning the shot. However, I also work with some who choose not to get it. It's a personal call, but I will continue with it.
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Robin from Indiana

#57 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 07 January 2007 - 12:46 PM

"...but I personally know of DOZENS who have had adverse reactions to the flu shot, and they all say htat they will not get it any more."

I'm just baffled that you would know DOZENS of people who have had adverse reactions. I personally don't know of a single person (I'm sure I do know somebody but I don't quiz people about whether they get flu shots and how they react, it's just not a topic of conversation).,

the last time I had the flu (which was also the last time I didn't get the shot), I missed six days of work
richard


Like I said before, there may be some kind of geographical part to the equation. It might be related that I am in some kind of autism beltway here. One woman I know said that there are 10 kids ON HER STREET ALONE diagnosed with autism. I don't know if we all go to the same doctor, got the same batch of vaccines, or live near the same power lines. There are a lot of unknowns.

Perhaps reactions to flu shots are a topic of conversation because so many of us have had them over here. When you have a bad reaction to something you expect would help you, you don't forget it, and you don't "chat about it casually," either. Most of us wanted to find out if we were the only ones who reacted, and we also wanted to find out why, and when we found out that a lot of people (at least, locally) were having the same problems, we wanted to protect others from the same fate.

You only missed 6 days? You were relatively lucky. The time I got sick after having the flu shot, I missed two and a half weeks of work--and I tend to go to work unless I'm literally too sick to get out of bed. Our orchestra did not offer ANY maternity leave, so I needed to save up my sick leave for that.
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#58 tarnalberry

 
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Posted 07 January 2007 - 04:03 PM

and I tend to go to work unless I'm literally too sick to get out of bed.


this is one of the reasons why I *have* to get the flu shot. because people come in to work unless they can't get out of bed. no - I'm not blaming you personally. some work places condone this behavior and encourage it (even if they say they don't) by making it very hard on someone for being out sick. but with everyone and their brother and their brother's dog coming in to work sick, I've found myself getting up to three mutations of the *same* stupid bug! (at least that one was just a cold? never mind it gave me a severe case of bronchitis and left me sick for six weeks and on asthma meds for four months...)

and people think I'm odd for kicking the bathroom door open with my foot. :P
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Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"
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Bellevue, WA

#59 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 07 January 2007 - 04:43 PM

I do agree with you , Tiffany. When employers EXPECT you to show up unless you are on your deathbed, you are pretty much stuck showing up or losing your job. But in the meantime--everyone else gets your germs, and you get theirs. Then again, if you have kids, you've pretty much been exposed to all the germs, anyway.

For those of us who make our living onstage, we can't really argue--if I am sick for a rehearsal, do they get a sub for the rehearsal and then let me play the concert? Nah, doesn't work that way. If I miss 2 of the 4 rehearsals, I am stuck taking the whole week off so that whoever plays the rehearsals also plays the concerts. There goes my sick leave! And if I play all 4 rehearsals, how do they get a sub who has never seen the music before to come in and play the concerts if I am sick?

So, where I work, hardly anybody calls in sick unless they are really terribly ill.

I open the bathroom doors (actually al lthe doors) by sort of falling sideways into it. Looks weird, I bet! And I always wash my hands before leaving the building. I don't take the elevator, and I use my sleeve to turn doorknobs. :blink:
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#60 shayesmom

 
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Posted 08 January 2007 - 05:35 AM

this is one of the reasons why I *have* to get the flu shot. because people come in to work unless they can't get out of bed. no - I'm not blaming you personally. some work places condone this behavior and encourage it (even if they say they don't) by making it very hard on someone for being out sick. but with everyone and their brother and their brother's dog coming in to work sick, I've found myself getting up to three mutations of the *same* stupid bug! (at least that one was just a cold? never mind it gave me a severe case of bronchitis and left me sick for six weeks and on asthma meds for four months...)

and people think I'm odd for kicking the bathroom door open with my foot. :P

This is so incredibly true. It's an incredible shame that work places condone this behavior and then everyone gets sick. And you find the same thing applies to schools. I have heard DOZENS of mothers say that if their child is sick and running a temp, they just give the child Motrin so that the fever goes down and they can send the kid to school. I've heard them joking that this way, "The fever won't reappear for 4-6 hours and I can still get to work or get some things done". Ugghh! It's so frustrating and just plain SAD that this is considered acceptable behavior for some.

As for vaccine reactions....my dd is in that group. We lost eggs and food colorings with a 1/2 dose of the flu shot. Dd had been fine with these for several months. Two weeks after being vaccinated, she began reacting to them. Haven't got them back either. I've talked to two doctors about this and both have said that dd shouldn't have any further vaccines due to new food allergies appearing so soon after being vaxed. We actually have a medical exemption. I visited the manufacturer's site of the flu vaccine dd had. Not only should egg allergic people avoid it, but there was mention that anyone with allergies to food colorings should too. I find that interesting since dd's began reacting to those two items so soon AFTER getting the shot.

For anyone interested, I found this site to be extremely helpful in wading through statistics on flu vaccine. http://www.vaclib.or...ndex.htm#graphs. This specific page does not list peer-reviewed studies...but the links will take you to sites that do. It also takes you to the CDC site for the real numbers on deaths attributed to flu. They are NOT in the "tens of thousands". Flu and pneumonia are generally lumped together when it comes to mortality. Flu deaths make up 1-4% of the "36,00 deaths" we hear of each year before vaccination season. I am not trying to make light of the deadly nature of flu. It is not something to be trivialized. However, I do feel that there should be more transparency as to the risks as well as benefits of vaccines. And people should be encouraged to make an informed decision and not be bullied, frightened or coerced into "opting in".

And for anyone who would like a good laugh (as it's good for your immune system :P ) . Please visit this site: http://www.cbc.ca/ai...;playerType=wmp
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Vicky




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