Kimberly-clark

[ArtGirl]

The following is from information supplied by members of the avoiding corn forum....

Re: toilet paper, paper towels, paper napkins - containing cornstarch. It is often in the packaging - to keep the plastics from sticking together - that the starch is used. You would have to contact each manufacturer to find out if they do use a starch, and what it is. This is more of an issue for those with corn allergies, since cornstarch is used most often.

I agree - it is important to contact the manufacturer/producer. That's why I contacted Brawny to find out if they dust with anything, which they say they don't.

If anyone gets an answer from an inquiry from Kimberly Clark, I'd love to hear about it. I have emailed them before but have not received an answer.

[lovegrov]

Planter's and Crystal Light are Kraft products. Kraft promises on its web site for all to see to clearly list any gluten. Then they purposely hide wheat in Planter's and Crystal Light so that a handful of people with celiac or a wheat allergy will continue to buy them? In fact, Planter's even lists wheat in at least one product (one of the trail mixes) but hides it in others? And for this they pay fines and/or chance enormous lawsuits, lawsuits that would be supported by Kraft's own words?

Maybe it's just me, but the whole post makes no sense at all. As far as I can tell from hundreds of posts on several forums, Kraft has been quite reliable for years now. This is my opinion and that of many, many, many people with celiac. For anybody who might be wondering, this is the only evidence I can offer. But it seems a lot better than srokie's unknown "doctor" or anything else she's presented.

richard

[Nancym]

If they're using wheat on peanuts it should be listed in the ingredients, according to the FDA.

[Kaycee]

Kraft promises on its web site for all to see to clearly list any gluten. Then they purposely hide wheat in Planter's and Crystal Light

richard

Richard, it sounds like Kraft has too much flour and does not know what to do with it, so adds it willy nilly here and there. Yeah right! That comment made me laugh.

Another thing, is Crystal Light a powdered drink concentrate?

If it is, I would just like to add that in NZ we buy Raro which is a powdered drink, you just add water and mix, and it warns on the packaging that it contains wheat and soy products. The wheat I think is in the modified starch.

Cathy

[Rachel--24]

The discrepancies continue....

In Srokie's first post of the thread:

"...I don't know if this topic has been addressed or not yet, since it's not "new research" (and it's not from Dr. Saviano, haha) - I got this information from a celiac at my college, who got it from a celiac newsletter or magazine.. or something..."

In post 15 of the same thread Srokie said:

"...Planter's DOES dust their nuts with flour to keep the oil down. Dr. Saviano is a celiac herself, and she has contacted companies time and time again about this stuff. I don't care what they report - you have to ask for the Biochem department if you want real answers. She knows what she's talking about and she would not tell her clients false information just for the heck of it. She has treated way too many celiacs who have had problems with these products to be making it up. She had a client who was reacting to Crystal Light and by doing her own research with the Biochem department, she discovered the truth...."

The bold formatting of some words is my own for emphasis. The words themselves are Srokie's.

Can we pleeeeease put a rest to the conspiracy theories???

Srokie may have posted inacurrate information about these products....BUT it does not make her a deceitful person who is out to get everyone on this board.

If you re-read her post you will see that she clearly states that the info about the paper products came from another college student and the info. re: Planters and Crystal Light came from her Doctor.

Sooooo.....where is the discreprency???

I don't know if this topic has been addressed or not yet, since it's not "new research" (and it's not from Dr. Saviano, haha) - I got this information from a celiac at my college, who got it from a celiac newsletter or magazine.. or something...

SIMILARLY: Planter's dusts their nuts with flour to cut down on the oil. Again sorry if this is old info. They don't put it on the label and are paying a fine - they have been given a time limit.

Crystal Light adds flour to their powdered drink mixes to keep them from caking up. They also do not put this on the label but I can't remember if they're paying a fine, or what the story behind it is.

(Got this info from Dr. Saviano).

I read this topic yesterday and understood exactly what she was saying....there is no discreprency or conspiracy here.

Shes a 20 year old girl who is *trying* to be helpful. Many many people have posted inacurrate information here and yet this one girl has been repeatedly attacked. I see no need for it.

There are better ways to go about things...more tactful and polite ways to deal with things...other than directly attacking the poster.

How about a polite correction...followed by a response from the company??? This would clear things up for any readers without creating a big fuss and without attacking the poster.

Nobody knows for certain that what shes saying is untrue. I guess if you were involved in the manufacturing process of these products then you could say for certain....but we arent....so we DONT KNOW.

Many people have posted problems with Planter Peanuts....so who knows??

All I'm trying to say is...can we please not create a hostile environment so that new members are afraid to post here??

[Michi8]

All I'm trying to say is...can we please not create a hostile environment so that new members are afraid to post here??

It's unfortunate that srokie is being questioned in such a manner again. However, her emphatic presentation of anecdote as fact just doesn't seem to sit well with others. Perhaps if her information was presented differently she would get a better/less hostile response?

Michelle

[Rachel--24]

It's unfortunate that srokie is being questioned in such a manner again. However, her emphatic presentation of anecdote as fact just doesn't seem to sit well with others. Perhaps if her information was presented differently she would get a better/less hostile response?

I saw nothing wrong with the way she presented this info. She obviously *believes* the info to be true just as much as others here *believe* that its false.

She came under attack primarily because of where her information came from.....other people have posted this exact information in the past and did NOT get this kind of response.

Nobody who has posted thus far has been able to *prove* that her information isnt valid....yet many here are just as emphatic in stating that she is incorrect because everything they've ever heard is that Kraft doesnt hide anything.

So again...because what shes saying goes against popular belief....she is under attack. When the fact is that we DONT KNOW that she is giving inaccurate information....regardless of the source.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

There are better ways to go about things...more tactful and polite ways to deal with things...other than directly attacking the poster.

How about a polite correction...followed by a response from the company??? This would clear things up for any readers without creating a big fuss and without attacking the poster.

Finally--a voice of reason! Thank you, Rachel.

Every time I come on here, I am amazed at the unnecessary hostility and the condescending attitudes.

We're supposed to be helping each other, not attacking each other. I think everyone who attacked Srokie owes a general apology to everyone on this board. I'd say a big apology is owed Srokie, but apparently, she won't be reading this thread anymore, and who can blame her?

It's like junior high school all over again here. One person attacks, and everyone else joins in.

[plantime]

The only fuss I saw on this thread was Srokie, throwing a tantrum because people dared to disagree with her. She needs to learn to do research instead of playing Chicken Little. She also needs to learn that she is no more or less perfect than any of the rest of us.

[Lisa]

I am not being argumentative here, nor have I.

Since I arrived on this site in August, 2005, I have heard repeatedly that Kraft is one of the "good" companies and that they will ALWAYS list. Time and time again, this information is passed on newbies.

There has never been any discrepancies regarding this information., until today or yesterday.

Srokie, was very insistent that her information was correct and appeared resistant to the contrary. Do I condone being rude, of course not.

Perhaps she is young and perhaps naive, but perhaps with a little open-mindedness on her part, this thread may have taken a different road.

Just my two cents.

[Michi8]

I saw nothing wrong with the way she presented this info. She obviously *believes* the info to be true just as much as others here *believe* that its false.

She came under attack primarily because of where her information came from.....other people have posted this exact information in the past and did NOT get this kind of response.

I maintain it is still in the presentation. She said that she heard this info from another celiac who read it in some newsletter somewhere. That is simply passing on an anecdote as fact. Others have posted in this manner and have had exactly the same type of response. Others have posted anecdotal info and invited comments, and get a very different type of response. I think if she were to change her delivery, and be more open to discussion, the conversation would flow very differently.

Nobody who has posted thus far has been able to *prove* that her information isnt valid....yet many here are just as emphatic in stating that she is incorrect because everything they've ever heard is that Kraft doesnt hide anything.

I would be very interested in hearing if any of this information is correct. Unfortunately, companies cannot be contacted until after the weekend, so unless someone already has the information at hand, confirmation of the info will have to wait.

So again...because what shes saying goes against popular belief....she is under attack. When the fact is that we DONT KNOW that she is giving inaccurate information....regardless of the source.

So if others don't believe in what she is saying, they have to wait to respond until the facts can be backed up? What is wrong with asking for her to provide proof or clarification?

Michelle

[Canadian Karen]

Well, I know one thing for sure, if I was a newbie lurking around in the last few days, I certainly would be hightailing it out of town pretty quick!

I prefer to always give people the benefit of the doubt. By doing so, I have gotten burned many, many times, but on the other side of the coin, my instincts are usually pretty good and I still believe that this girl is exactly as she says she is, a 20 yr old college student who is totally enamoured with her new doctor, who has just finally given her the proper diagnosis she has been searching for. I see nothing wrong with that, and I certainly don't see enough "evidence" to warrant the attacks this person has had to endure in three different threads.

Just because, in her excitement to share information in this new world she just entered, she doesn't word it in the way that we are accustomed to, doesn't give people the right to gang up on her in such a manner.

I am sorry, but I'm disappointed......

Karen

[Rachel--24]

I maintain it is still in the presentation. She said that she heard this info from another celiac who read it in some newsletter somewhere. That is simply passing on an anecdote as fact. Others have posted in this manner and have had exactly the same type of response. Others have posted anecdotal info and invited comments, and get a very different type of response. I think if she were to change her delivery, and be more open to discussion, the conversation would flow very differently.

If you review the thread there is NOTHING in her presentation to indicate the she felt she was better than anyone else or that what she was saying was the undeniable truth.

She was simply relaying information that she had heard.....as soooo many others have in the past.

Nothing was stated as FACT....until post #8....when things went into a different direction.

I can tell you that if I had these types of posts directed at me....whether it was my first week here...or my second year here....I would not wish to remain on this board.

So far in the past few days she has been accussed of being a troll, a fraud, seeking financial gain, promoting her Dr....and now she is attacked for posting information which nobody can even prove to be false.

And even still....she is now someone who is throwing a temper tantrum because people disagreed with her???

I think shes very justified in her response.....given all that shes dealt with trying to be a part of this board the past few days. If anyone is having a problem with open-mindedness....its certainly not Srokie.

[Rachel--24]

Just because, in her excitement to share information in this new world she just entered, she doesn't word it in the way that we are accustomed to, doesn't give people the right to gang up on her in such a manner.

I am sorry, but I'm disappointed......

Well said Karen...I'm disappointed too.

[Gentleheart]

.

[lovegrov]

Srokie came on here and immediately passed along information that goes against everything we've heard and some of it even against common sense. She quotes her "doctor" as if the doctor were a physician. And while she was indeed unnecessarily attacked in some posts, she also threw tantrums when asked for more info. She has never talked to Kraft herself but is ABSOLUTELY convinced they are purposely poisoning us.

You can call Kraft about these products, but generally without exception their answer is to tell you to read the ingredients because they list ALL gluten. And if they're indeed criminally hiding wheat in nuts and powdered drink, do you think they're going to break down on the phone and confess?

Strictly my opinion now -- no scientific studies -- but I choose to believe the hundreds and hundreds of celiacs who have posted over the years saying they trust and have never had a problem with Kraft rather than a new poster quoting an unknown doctor of divinity and a college student who read something in a magazine or newsletter or somewhere.

richard

[Rachel--24]

So if others don't believe in what she is saying, they have to wait to respond until the facts can be backed up? What is wrong with asking for her to provide proof or clarification?

She provided you with that information when she named her sources. She offered up her Doctors phone number...what more do you need?? She presented the information as it was told to her....by two fellow Celiacs....you have every right to either believe it or to ignore it.

So if you dont believe what shes saying.....what are you really accomplishing by attacking her??

I will reiterate what I stated in my earlier post...

There are better ways to go about things...more tactful and polite ways to deal with things...other than directly attacking the poster.

How about a polite correction...followed by a response from the company??? This would clear things up for any readers without creating a big fuss and without attacking the poster.

Not being able to contact the company on a Sunday does not justify attacking the poster.

[angel-jd1]

If you review the thread there is NOTHING in her presentation to indicate the she felt she was better than anyone else or that what she was saying was the undeniable truth.

She was simply relaying information that she had heard.....as soooo many others have in the past.

Nothing was stated as FACT....until post #8....when things went into a different direction.

I can tell you that if I had these types of posts directed at me....whether it was my first week here...or my second year here....I would not wish to remain on this board.

So far in the past few days she has been accussed of being a troll, a fraud, seeking financial gain, promoting her Dr....and now she is attacked for posting information which nobody can even prove to be false.

And even still....she is now someone who is throwing a temper tantrum because people disagreed with her???

I think shes very justified in her response.....given all that shes dealt with trying to be a part of this board the past few days. If anyone is having a problem with open-mindedness....its certainly not Srokie.

Rachel-

Now that you are personally blaming ME for the direction of this thread (post # 8). I feel the need to point out to you and your fellow finger pointers that all I did was ask her to check her facts and cleared up mis information. It had nothing to do with any other thread she has going on this board. She posted numerous facts that are untrue. As a moderator of this board, I believe it is my duty to try to keep information on this board true. If it isn't true, then what is the point of the board. To spout off incorrect info and make people sick with it? I would hope not!

I didn't ask her in a mean way, asked her point blank to check facts before posting. Don't post hereseay info.

I stand by my post that we must have correct information on this board. I would say that to any person whom I believed to be posting mis information.

-Jessica

[lovegrov]

"Nobody who has posted thus far has been able to *prove* that her information isnt valid....yet many here are just as emphatic in stating that she is incorrect because everything they've ever heard is that Kraft doesnt hide anything.

So again...because what shes saying goes against popular belief....she is under attack. When the fact is that we DONT KNOW that she is giving inaccurate information....regardless of the source."

I'm curious then, does this mean you don't trust Kraft? Do you avoid their products?

I can't imagine that anybody on this forum can EVER prove 100 percent whether her information is right or wrong unless they're allowed in to watch production. If Kraft is indeed duping us and has been illegally using undeclared wheat, they aren't going to break down and confess when somebody calls.

So barring a confession from Kraft, how else can we judge this information? The only way I know of is to judge the company by past actions and what people post. Based on that criteria, I choose to believe Kraft.

richard

[olalisa]

"Nobody who has posted thus far has been able to *prove* that her information isnt valid....yet many here are just as emphatic in stating that she is incorrect because everything they've ever heard is that Kraft doesnt hide anything.

So again...because what shes saying goes against popular belief....she is under attack. When the fact is that we DONT KNOW that she is giving inaccurate information....regardless of the source."

I'm curious then, does this mean you don't trust Kraft? Do you avoid their products?

I can't imagine that anybody on this forum can EVER prove 100 percent whether her information is right or wrong unless they're allowed in to watch production. If Kraft is indeed duping us and has been illegally using undeclared wheat, they aren't going to break down and confess when somebody calls.

So barring a confession from Kraft, how else can we judge this information? The only way I know of is to judge the company by past actions and what people post. Based on that criteria, I choose to believe Kraft.

richard

Thank you, Richard. You are a voice of reason.

[Nancym]

I'm sure her heart was in the right place but she seemed unable to handle any skepticism or anyone posting any doubt of what she so vehemently states as true. I think that's simply due to lack of experience. But when you state things that so plainly go against other people's personal experience, or what most people believe, you've got to be prepared to back it up with something other than, a friend of a friend said they read it somewhere.

Now there are nice, and not so nice ways of expressing skepticism but frankly I think she kind of treated all skepticism as a personal attack.

[blueeyedmanda]

The whole Kraft thing was that they(Kraft) wouldn't tell us that information...some chemical company would.

So say one of us calls Kraft tomorrow and says to them about this information and how they "hide" things...that is us accusing them.

I learned from everyone here Kraft is a good company, I personally trust them and have no had any problems with their products up to this point. I do use Crystal Light at times and I sometimes grab a can of Planters nuts as a snack while at the store.

[Canadian Karen]

I was under the impression that people are here on this board to learn. How can they learn if they are swarmed in such a manner when they post something that we know most likely to be wrong? I mean, c'mon, are we really trying to create an atmosphere where everyone is going to be second-guessing a post before hitting the "submit" button, for fear of being swarmed with angry replies?

I would rather have an atmosphere where people will feel comfortable enough to be able to post without having such fears. If we know the info to be wrong, we will present it in a manner that shows respect. Where I come from, it is called an "open discussion".

I can totally picture this girl being so exhuberent and on a high that she has discovered this board so she can come here to learn and share knowledge, and was probably very eager to share what she has been told so far, so she can feel like "part of the crowd". Just because she is blindly believing her "doctor" and doesn't know any better yet, does NOT give people the right to give her the lashing she received.

Karen

[Fiddle-Faddle]

OH, PEOPLE, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!!!!!

The point isn't whether or not to blindly believe Srokie (or Kraft, for that matter), or anyone who posts information. The point is how to treat someone who (in your opinion) is innocently posting erroneous (or potentially erroneous) information.

I think Rachel is absolutely correct--there is no reason to attack. I suggest the following protocol for disagreeing with a post: 1) Post why you believe it to be untrue and 2) get information directly from the company to back you up. If you can't get info from the company until Monday or Tuesday, you could post something like, "I don't think that is correct--I will get some information from XYZ Company and post here on Tuesday." The "I don't think" is very important here: simply saying "that's not true" really sets you up as the all-knowing expert and others as people who don't know as much as you do. That can't work on boards like this one; we are all in the same boat.

[Rachel--24]

She quotes her "doctor" as if the doctor were a physician.

Are you saying that the info. would carry more weight had her doctor been a physician....rather than a Doctor of Divinity???

Who really cares....maybe her "doctor of divinity" knows someone on the inside?? Maybe someone working for Kraft told her that they dust the nuts with flour?? What does her title have anything to do with the accuracy of her information??

I can probably ask about a thousand physicians if they know if Kraft products are gluten-free or not...I guarantee they'll have no clue. She did say that her "Doctor of Divinity" also has Celiac Disease....therefore she likely has alot more knowledge regarding the disease and the diet than a great deal of physicians do.

You can call Kraft about these products, but generally without exception their answer is to tell you to read the ingredients because they list ALL gluten. And if they're indeed criminally hiding wheat in nuts and powdered drink, do you think they're going to break down on the phone and confess?

You're right. So those who decide to make the phone calls arent gonna get anything more than what you just wrote.

I agree with the previous poster who said that we need to take charge of our own health. I am thankful for those posters who offer up information that *might* be helpful to someone. Ultimately its up to us to decide what products are safe or not.

Personally I do not trust every company and there *word* about what is or isnt in their products.

As far as Kraft goes....its my understanding that they are the company who puts the most MSG into their products. Is it labeled....nope....its *hidden* in the ingredients.

So while you may trust Kraft 100%....others may not....and others may be appreciative to have information like what Srokie posted. Unfortunately thats not going to happen if people are attacked for posting information that is contrary to the views of others.