Starving All The Time

[emcmaster]

I was one of those lucky celiacs that gained a lot of weight prior to diagnosis. I lost it all pretty quickly, but recently gained about 5 lbs due to a lot (a LOT) of overeating over the holidays. I've gotten back to my regular exercise and healthy eating (I count calories), but I just can't kick the hunger pains. I'm getting a normal, safe amount of calories (approx. 1800 a day), but I'm hungry almost immediately after every meal. I don't believe my body could have gotten used to eating so much since it was about 2 weeks total.

Seeing that I need to lose 5 lbs, I certainly don't want to gain anymore or prevent myself from losing, but I'm wondering if I need to add more calories because I might not be absorbing nutrients correctly, which could lead to hunger? Or am I just having a hard time getting back into the swing of normal caloric intake?

In case anyone was wondering, here's what yesterday, a typical day, looks like for me:

coffee with coffeemate

1 cup cottage cheese, 6 oz. fat-free yogurt, blueberries

lentil and vegetable soup

cannelini bean, turkey sausage and kale stew

large salad with veggies and cubed turkey, 2 T. dressing and a few cheese cubes

grapefruit, english muffin with peanut butter

I'm having protein with every meal, lots of veggies and fruit, and complex carbs.

[Lisa]

Elizabeth:

I know that our bodies tell us things and it's up to us to figure it out. Apparently, there is a lack in something that you body is asking for. You should not be hungry after a meal.

I don't know how to answer you questions, but there sure are a heck of alot of peeps here that can.

I will defer to them.

[Ursa Major]

Elizabeth, I think I know what the problem is. You don't get enough fat! You need to add more healthy fats to your diet. Saturated fat is what will keep you from being hungry so soon again, and is essential for all of your cells. Also, you need Omega 3 fatty acids for your body to function as well. Low fat diets are very unhealthy. Try cooking with coconut oil (non-hydrogenated, cold pressed) or butter (unless you're intolerant to dairy).

Also, it doesn't look like you're eating enough, period. Do you realize that by eating low fat, low calorie, you will slow down your metabolism, which leads to weight gain, not loss? My naturopathic doctor told me that weight gain can be a sign of malnutrition!

Another thing: Fat doesn't make you fat, carbohydrates (especially grains) and sugar do. So, go for the full-fat yogurt, butter, eggs (if you can tolerate them) and meats that have more fat than turkey. 1800 calories really aren't enough.

[LisaJ]

Hi Elizabeth,

I think Ursa is exactly right. Doesn't look like you have much fat at all in your diet. I was also hungry all the time until I started adding more fat to my diet and taking out some carbs. I try to eat more things like salmon, almonds, cook with olive oil, etc. I also think that would help!

[newg]

I was just wondering what kind of english muffins you eat? Good luck with everything!

I was one of those lucky celiacs that gained a lot of weight prior to diagnosis. I lost it all pretty quickly, but recently gained about 5 lbs due to a lot (a LOT) of overeating over the holidays. I've gotten back to my regular exercise and healthy eating (I count calories), but I just can't kick the hunger pains. I'm getting a normal, safe amount of calories (approx. 1800 a day), but I'm hungry almost immediately after every meal. I don't believe my body could have gotten used to eating so much since it was about 2 weeks total.

Seeing that I need to lose 5 lbs, I certainly don't want to gain anymore or prevent myself from losing, but I'm wondering if I need to add more calories because I might not be absorbing nutrients correctly, which could lead to hunger? Or am I just having a hard time getting back into the swing of normal caloric intake?

In case anyone was wondering, here's what yesterday, a typical day, looks like for me:

coffee with coffeemate

1 cup cottage cheese, 6 oz. fat-free yogurt, blueberries

lentil and vegetable soup

cannelini bean, turkey sausage and kale stew

large salad with veggies and cubed turkey, 2 T. dressing and a few cheese cubes

grapefruit, english muffin with peanut butter

I'm having protein with every meal, lots of veggies and fruit, and complex carbs.

[Carriefaith]

Another thing: Fat doesn't make you fat, carbohydrates (especially grains) and sugar do

Ursa has some good advice! I would suggest adding more protein to your diet. Maybe salmon, extra lean beef, chicken? Salmon always fills me up. Spinach seems to fill me up too for some reason.

[Guest cassidy]

Adding fat really is helpful. I'm up right now at 4am because I am hungry. I have found if I eat a high fat snack before bed then I can sleep through the night. Protein doesn't do it, it has to be fat. The problem is that I don't like the idea of eating a high fat snack before bed because I don't want to get fat, so sometimes I don't do it and then I'm up at 3am because I'm starving. I'm pregnant so my situation is a bit different, but I am definitely used to dealing with the hungry all the time thing, and althought it wasn't this bad before I got pregnant, I still have always had to eat a lot.

Also, have you tried the low glycemic index diet? Not the fade one that is popular now but www.glycemicindex.com. There is a list of healthy carbs that are slowly digested so your blood sugar doesn't spike and dip. If you consistently eat these slowly digested carbs then things are supposed to stay more level and you are less hungry. I was having low blood sugar issues and started eating more of these foods and it really helped. I was able to go a couple of hours without eating and not be starving. I didn't find the list intuitive, like 20 minute cook rice is more slowly digested than 5 minute cook rice, so you really need to look at their list to see what is better for you.

Also, I think you were the one that posted about the cat and bed issue, what happened with that?

[emcmaster]

Thanks, everyone!

Ursula, do you think 68 g of fat a day is too little? It makes up approx. 30% of my caloric intake. I don't shy away from fat because it's fat, but because I like to eat large quantities of things and more fat means more calories... which means I can't eat as large a quantity for the calories.

Here's what I ate yesterday:

coffee with coffeemate

1 cup cottage cheese (3 g. fat), ff/sf yogurt, blueberries

lentil & vegetable soup (made with olive oil) (7 g. fat)

pizza - kinnikinnick crust (12 g. fat), sauce, part-skim mozzarella (~16 g. fat), turkey pepperoni (4 g. fat), 2 dark chocolates (5 g. fat)

spinach, egg white and cottage cheese frittata (3 g. fat)

1 kinnikinnick english muffin (2 g. fat) with about 2 T. peanut butter (16 g. fat)

I will try adding more fat and upping my calories to about 2000 and monitor it for weight gain. I'd love to be able to eat a lot more and still lose, but from prior experience, I just don't lose on more than 1800.

Thanks, everyone!

Cassidy, the cat is doing much better. She meows once every couple weeks. She meowed this morning when I was already awake, but because the door was closed and it was still dark, I squirted her anyway. She seems to be (mostly) making the connection that when the door is closed and the light off, she isn't allowed to meow. I try to eat low glycemic carbs like brown rice and legumes. The only "white" carbs I eat are from the pizza crust and english muffin. Perhaps I should try to make my own pizza crusts using brown rice flour, etc.?

newg, i eat kinnikinnick english muffins - they're awesome!

[tarnalberry]

30% fat *could* be just fine - I also was wondering if there was enough fat in what you listed. (the descriptions you give don't actually tell us macronutrient content.) and the fat *looks* fairly evenly distributed in the day, but again, it's hard to tell. the timing is important for keeping you satisfied too.

also, how much protein is in that? is it also around 30%? if so, I'd *think* that macronutrient content *should* be ok, but your body could well be telling you different, and that's important.

it could be that, for some reason, right now, 1800 calories is *not* enough. you can well try increasing it (in additional meals in the day) it for a while, and keep a close eye on your weight to see how that changes. you may be going through some particular stage, physically, that wants more calories - maybe fighting off a bug, maybe something else.

[hathor]

Wow, I disagree with everyone. I hesitate to even say anything, but I feel honor-bound to set forth the contrary point of view. At the risk of bringing everyone down on my head ...

We all have to do our our research and heed the dictates of our bodies. The best study I've seen comparing diet to disease is Campbell, The China Study. In China you have a much wider disparity in diet than in the West so the effects of diet are much starker (the reason you can't rely on those studies in the US supposedly looking at "low fat" -- they weren't. 30% isn't low; it is very close to average).

For a completely different point of view about fat, anyone interested can look at www.drmcdougall.com. Also, take a look at the healthiest and trimmest people in the world and see what they are eating, e.g., Robbins, Healthy at 100. Dr. McDougall in his books (in addition to all the studies he examines) also reports his experience as a doctor on a Hawaiian plantation, dealing with first and second generation immigrants. The first generation, sticking to their traditional diet, was invariably trim and healthy. The second, adopting a Western diet, were often fat and unhealthy. This is what started him off on his life's work.

You also might want to read Ornish and Esselstyn on heart disease, Barnard on diabetes, etc.

I personally have lost weight on a low fat vegan diet and many others have as well. We've also had a reversal of health problems due to following a SAD (Standard American Diet). We also don't go hungry. What works in staving off hunger and fueling our bodies are the carbs from whole foods which are full of fiber and nutrients. I've been doing this for years, while I've seen friends and acquaintances do Atkins and "carb addict" diets, never permanently losing weight and developing health problems.

Please look at the science and read all you can before upping what fat you get, particularly saturated fat. Try out different diets and see which makes you feel the best. (I did a high protein, high fat, low carb diet years ago -- and it made me very, very sick.) Then make up your own mind. I don't expect anyone to take my word for anything -- I'm just a stranger on the internet

[emcmaster]

Thanks Tiffany and hathor -

Tiffany, I showed where the fat was coming from in my last post. It's heavier at night, because I can't eat those foods at work (crumbs everywhere here - I limit myself to what I can eat with a fork or spoon - no touching anything that goes in my mouth at work).

Hathor, I find that I feel more full and satisfied when I eat a lot of protein. I'm getting a minimum of 120-130 grams of protein per day, sometimes more. I eat lots of legumes and whole grains (when I eat grains) like the website advocates.

[Guest cassidy]

I gained a little weight before my diagnosis. My stomach hurt all the time and I think I tried to eat to make it stop hurting because I didn't know what to do. Soon after being diagnosed I found out I had a problem with candida overgrowth. I tried the candida diet but I lost too much weight and wasn't able to stay on that. With that I ate veggies and brown rice but not many other carbs. It wasn't like the high fat low carb diets that seem unhealthy. I only wanted to lose 10lbs and I lost 15 and couldn't fit into any of my clothes (which were a size 2). If I am having a tough time with the baby weight I would definitely give that a try because it worked well for me.

I would also think that 30% fat is fine and 1800 calories sounds reasonable. Do you drink enough water? I drink close to 100oz a day. I don't know if it does anything for my hunger, but some people say that it helps.

[tarnalberry]

Thanks Tiffany and hathor -

Tiffany, I showed where the fat was coming from in my last post. It's heavier at night, because I can't eat those foods at work (crumbs everywhere here - I limit myself to what I can eat with a fork or spoon - no touching anything that goes in my mouth at work).

Hathor, I find that I feel more full and satisfied when I eat a lot of protein. I'm getting a minimum of 120-130 grams of protein per day, sometimes more. I eat lots of legumes and whole grains (when I eat grains) like the website advocates.

And the timing could be an issue - I can deal better with meals that are 'unbalanced' (lower in fat/protein) if they're later in the day, and my earlier meals are well balanced. That's just me.

Hathor has a good point in that you need to listen to your body. I ask these questions because I know what happens to me - as a hypoglycemic - if I eat low fat. I've done that before, and it is problematic for my blood sugar. Starches don't stave off hunger if your blood sugar spikes and then crashes from these things. But that doesn't happen to everyone, and if your blood sugar is very very 'sturdy', you may find that more starches are better. Me, I'd be suggested looking for full fat yogurt, instead of low-fat. or greek yogurt with higher protein content. But *your* body is what matters, and it may take a little time to experiment and figure out what works for it.

[Ursa Major]

Hathor, you are making the same mistake most people, even doctors, make. You think that the same diet will work for everybody. That is not the case. Some people, like you, need very little protein and more carbs to be healthy, and too much fat and protein makes you sick. I am the exact opposite. I can't tolerate starches at all, they make me instantly gain weight. While a high protein and high fat diet makes me lose weight.

If I would eat the same diet as you, I would lose all energy, and you wouldn't want to be around me, as I would be irritable, gassy, bloated and starving! Plus, I would gain weight very fast.

And your example of the Hawaiians really proves my point. Everybody should eat their native diet, or as close as possible to what their ancestors ate. If you deviate from that and adopt a foreign diet (and the typical western diet is unhealthy for everybody anyway), you'll get sick.

So, of course, those Hawaiians who ate their native diet were healthy, and the ones adopting a western diet were not. Diets in warm climates are generally diets high in fruits and vegetables and fairly low in protein and fat.

My ancestors were all from the northern part of Germany. A place where you get really miserable weather, that chills you to the bone (sometimes even in the summer). In places like that, you need to eat a diet that warms you. Like lots of protein and fat. Which is what I need. I also get very cold otherwise. Not to mention the fact that I am intolerant to all fruits except pears, and I am also intolerant to most vegetables, all grains, dairy, eggs, legumes (which includes soy and peanuts), nightshades, all herbs and spices, all teas (except for chamomile), all vegetable oils except cold pressed sunflower oil, and most nuts.

Which leaves just a very few vegetables and meat.

And by the way, saturated fat and cholesterol do NOT cause heart disease, that has long been debunked (even though many doctors and researchers still cling to this outdated idea, it would of course be hard to admit they have been wrong all this time, and how do they tell people that a low fat diet will CAUSE, not prevent, heart disease, and that they may have caused deaths with their wrong advice and guidance?).

[Yenni]

I have this problem from time to time too and I have noticed that if I had eaten something my body didn't like (like legumes) I get these hungers for a while after. I also get them when I eat Vitamins for some reason. I dream of food, have to go up at night to eat and feel starving constantly when I am on Vitamins. Not saying that is your problem though.

I have started to add a little bit more fat into my diet too but I find it hard when I can't have any dairy. I cook with oil now.

And I eat egg sometimes. That fills me up well. Seems my stomach isn't super fond of it though. Get gasy, but not sick feeling like with the other stuff I am intolerant too.

I am one of them peoiple that have to eat right away when I wake up and can't wait for a meal when I am hungry. My blood sugar goes down too low. I also have to make sure to eat chicken and fish. Can't do just carbs and veggies for example.

I have realized that most of the stuff I can eat now do not fill me up as well as the gluten and dairy foods did. Dilmemma. Not much help, but some "thoughts".

[hathor]

Ursa Major:

I cited evidence and the need for people to look into it for themselves. All you've given is assertion. People can decide which is the more credible.

You say you would experience a number of things were you to eat my diet. However, I think it safe to assume you never have.

I certainly would not hold up the German diet as something to emulate. They are hardly either a slim or healthy people.

Eating as your ancestors did is an interesting theory, but you haven't given any proof that it works or that people don't do better on mine. Plus most of us are quite a mix -- not quite sure where you would go with that. The China Study involved people of the same genetic heritage -- they eat differently, they get diseases at different rates. There is a fairly linear relationship between the two. You also can see people like the Inuit, who follow their native diet and have high rates of the diseases I would expect.

If you have any evidence, I will look at it. Can you say the same?

[super-sally888]

Hi,

On another train... I get really hungry depending on time of the month. Just before my period I will eating everything in sight. A real danger to sticking to my diet.....

I have also found that it can be really difficult to distinguish mild stomach discomfort and thirst from real hunger.

Try drinking a bit more.. see if it helps. Your urine should always be clear (assuming you aren't taking vitamins that color it)..

Assuming real hunger, it is important to get enough calories - particularly if you are exercising. 1800 cals a day may be enough if you are small and not exercising / light activity only, but won't be enough if you are exercising (you need to add at least 250 - 500 calories / hr of exercise.... Sometime you even have to eat a bit more (get out of starvation mode - this can take a while) to start losing weight again / feeling good / energetic.

Another way to address the hunger (aside from getting adequate fat) is to make sure you have foods that you have to chew (this sends stimulus to the brain), and also making sure you eat high volume foods - things like soups are very filling cause of the volume, most vegetables... High volume foods are low calorie but big volume... As an example - You can eat a whole head of cauliflower and it is only 100 or so calories, compared with 1/2 cup of rice, which is already more than 100 calories and not so filling.

Eating small meals frequently may also help stop you getting hungry..

Best wishes

Sally

[Ursa Major]

Ursa Major:

I cited evidence and the need for people to look into it for themselves. All you've given is assertion. People can decide which is the more credible.

You say you would experience a number of things were you to eat my diet. However, I think it safe to assume you never have.

I certainly would not hold up the German diet as something to emulate. They are hardly either a slim or healthy people.

Eating as your ancestors did is an interesting theory, but you haven't given any proof that it works or that people don't do better on mine. Plus most of us are quite a mix -- not quite sure where you would go with that. The China Study involved people of the same genetic heritage -- they eat differently, they get diseases at different rates. There is a fairly linear relationship between the two. You also can see people like the Inuit, who follow their native diet and have high rates of the diseases I would expect.

If you have any evidence, I will look at it. Can you say the same?

I will find you proof when I have time. I am very tired after babysitting three small children today.

The Inuit have long stopped eating their native diet. In fact, they stopped as soon as they started eating things the white men brought them. They are very fond of black tea with a ton of sugar in it (I've read as much as ten teaspoonfuls a cup). Hardly part of their native diet. The same goes for eating things made of white flour. They lived long and healthy lives (unless eaten by a polar bear, or starving during poor hunting seasons) before having contact with white people.

And yes, they are having high rates of the diseases I would expect AFTER abandoning their native diet, using sugar and grains as well as alcohol and tobacco.

And actually, my daughters thought the same way as you (one of them being a vegetarian for a while), and constantly tried to stop me from eating meat, and eating more fruits and vegetables. The result was that all my energy left me, and I was starving, and GAINING weight.

What do you know about the German people? Not much I imagine. When my mother visited here before she died, she was astounded to see the difference in obesity rates here. And I mean, that she couldn't believe how many MORE fat people she saw here in comparison to Germany.

Another thing about the German people is, that the older generation went through starvation times during the war. The majority of them were malnourished over an extended period of time during those war years. Which eroded their health, of course, resulting in them not living very long. Both my parents had dentures at a fairly young age, because they lost their teeth due to malnutrition while in their late teens/early twenties.

And then the years after the war were very tough as well. I was born not long after. There was often not enough to eat, and many times all we could afford was soups made from milk powder (supplied by the American occupiers), white flour dumplings, sugar and artificial vanilla flavour. Many times we would put margarine and sugar on our bread, because there was no money for anything else.

We could rarely afford fruit (it was a special treat on Sundays), or meat.

So, when you look at the German people (especially people that are middle age or older), you have to take their compromised diet during their youth into consideration before making judgments on why their health may not be great.

How many people were actually severely malnourished during the second world war here in America?

[Mango04]

Here are some interesting articles on fats:

Open Original Shared Link

[Fiddle-Faddle]

How many people were actually severely malnourished during the second world war here in America?

One group of people was--the Japanese Americans and Japanese Canadians living on the West Coast. They were taken from their homes in 1942 with only what they could carry with them, and taken to "camps"as far away as Arkansas, living in barracks that were made over from horse stalls.They were given starchy, high-gluten, American food that was poorly prepared even from Western standards, but particularly unpalatable to what the Japanese Americans were used to eating in their own homes (rice, vegetables, fish, and meat).

The last of these "camps" closed in 1946.

I thought I'd mention this because it is a rather dark spot in US and Canadian history that is never mentioned in the history books...

[tarnalberry]

I thought I'd mention this because it is a rather dark spot in US and Canadian history that is never mentioned in the history books...

Maybe it was growing up in California (home to a number of these camps), but it was *often* mentioned, and had it's own section in most public libraries. A section in the history books from school, summer reading on Manzinar, discussion during class... definitely not glossed over.

[Ursa Major]

One group of people was--the Japanese Americans and Japanese Canadians living on the West Coast. They were taken from their homes in 1942 with only what they could carry with them, and taken to "camps"as far away as Arkansas, living in barracks that were made over from horse stalls.They were given starchy, high-gluten, American food that was poorly prepared even from Western standards, but particularly unpalatable to what the Japanese Americans were used to eating in their own homes (rice, vegetables, fish, and meat).

The last of these "camps" closed in 1946.

I thought I'd mention this because it is a rather dark spot in US and Canadian history that is never mentioned in the history books...

Right, I forgot about them. One of my friends was one of those Japanese Canadians, who died of leukemia six years ago at the age of 68.

Thanks Mango, for that link. It has amazing information.

Here is an excerpt from the page "The oiling of America".

Benefits of Animal Fats

Foods containing trans fat sell because the American public is afraid of the alternative—saturated fats found in tallow, lard, butter, palm and coconut oil, fats traditionally used for frying and baking. Yet the scientific literature delineates a number of vital roles for dietary saturated fats—they enhance the immune system, are necessary for healthy bones, provide energy and structural integrity to the cells, protect the liver and enhance the body's use of essential fatty acids. Stearic acid, found in beef tallow and butter, has cholesterol lowering properties and is a preferred food for the heart. As saturated fats are stable, they do not become rancid easily, do not call upon the body's reserves of antioxidants, do not initiate cancer, do not irritate the artery walls.

Your body makes saturated fats, and your body makes cholesterol—about 2000 mg per day. In general, cholesterol that the average American absorbs from food amounts to about 100 mg per day. So, in theory, even reducing animal foods to zero will result in a mere 5% decrease in the total amount of cholesterol available to the blood and tissues. In practice, such a diet is likely to deprive the body of the substrates it needs to manufacture enough of this vital substance; for cholesterol, like saturated fats, stands unfairly accused. It acts as a precursor to vital corticosteroids, hormones that help us deal with stress and protect the body against heart disease and cancer; and to the sex hormones like androgen, testosterone, estrogen and progesterone; it is a precursor to vitamin D, a vital fat-soluble vitamin needed for healthy bones and nervous system, proper growth, mineral metabolism, muscle tone, insulin production, reproduction and immune system function; it is the precursor to bile salts, which are vital for digestion and assimilation of fats in the diet.

Recent research shows that cholesterol acts as an antioxidant. This is the likely explanation for the fact that cholesterol levels go up with age. As an antioxidant, cholesterol protects us against free radical damage that leads to heart disease and cancer. Cholesterol is the body's repair substance, manufactured in large amounts when the arteries are irritated or weak. Blaming heart disease on high serum cholesterol levels is like blaming firemen who have come to put out a fire for starting the blaze.

Cholesterol is needed for proper function of serotonin receptors in the brain.61 Serotonin is the body's natural "feel-good" chemical. This explains why low cholesterol levels have been linked to aggressive and violent behavior, depression and suicidal tendencies.

Mother's milk is especially rich in cholesterol and contains a special enzyme that helps the baby utilize this nutrient. Babies and children need cholesterol-rich foods throughout their growing years to ensure proper development of the brain and nervous system. Dietary cholesterol plays an important role in maintaining the health of the intestinal wall, which is why low-cholesterol vegetarian diets can lead to leaky gut syndrome and other intestinal disorders.

Animal foods containing saturated fat and cholesterol provide vital nutrients necessary for growth, energy and protection from degenerative disease. Like sex, animal fats are necessary for reproduction. Humans are drawn to both by powerful instincts. Suppression of natural appetites leads to weird nocturnal habits, fantasies, fetishes, bingeing and splurging.

Animal fats are nutritious, satisfying and they taste good. "Whatever is the cause of heart disease," said the eminent biochemist Michael Gurr in a recent article, "it is not primarily the consumption of saturated fats." And yet the high priests of the lipid hypothesis continue to lay their curse on the fairest of culinary pleasures—butter and Bernaise, whipped cream, souffles and omelets, full-bodied cheeses, juicy steaks and pork sausage.

Here is an excerpt from "The skinny on fat". Very enlightening.

Fats from animal and vegetable sources provide a concentrated source of energy in the diet; they also provide the building blocks for cell membranes and a variety of hormones and hormonelike substances. Fats as part of a meal slow down absorption so that we can go longer without feeling hungry. In addition, they act as carriers for important fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K. Dietary fats are needed for the conversion of carotene to vitamin A, for mineral absorption and for a host of other processes.

I've really just started reading the articles on this site. I think I'll be reading for a long time, it's fascinating stuff, and of course confirms everything my research has shown over the years (and medical research is my number one hobby).

[tarnalberry]

This reminds me of a little 'saga' a few years ago on another forum. Someone else was posting on this forum about the 'Optimal Diet' - one researched significantly in Poland and one that is very high in saturated fats and, compared to the american diet, low in carbohydrates. My FIL had recently started the Ornish diet, a very low fat vegetarian diet, due to having a heart attack.

The person promoting the Optimal diet and I got into a round of discussion over the course of... probably six months. We both did *lots* of research. And something I found very interesting, in all the research I found, was that the 'conventional wisdom' on "Fat Is Bad For Your Heart Health" is a *GROSS OVERSIMPLIFICATION", and I *still* don't think that the 'Optimal' diet is necessarily 'optimal', and think that everyone should evaluate choices for themselves and need to do some experimenting on their own body.

What that discussion, which later expanded to milk research as well, taught me, is that a lot of our nutrition studies, are pretty crappily designed if you're really looking for the results that the headlines are screaming. Nutritional studies leave a lot to be desired still, and even so, it won't change the fact that we're all different.

[lonewolf]

Here are some interesting articles on fats:

Open Original Shared Link

Mango - I thought I was the only one here who gets info from the Weston A. Price foundation. Yay! You can trust the info from them!

[super-sally888]

Hi,

I think the Weston Price site is really interesting. And it is well researched. After I first saw this site (a year or two ago) I completely changed my way of thinking about fat (I used to be scared of eating anything with fat in it).

Check all the info about soy on Weston Price, you will also never think the same way about that again either.

I don't go overboard, but neither will I ever eat low fat versions or real food again. And now I don't have as much trouble with my weight as I used to (even with thyroid problems) - and eating less carbs (particularly the refined ones) I have more energy.

I guess the lesson is we need to be open about the info that is around and do our own research, and then listen to our bodies and work out what suits us each best.

Thanks for such an interesting thread.

Sally

Mango - I thought I was the only one here who gets info from the Weston A. Price foundation. Yay! You can trust the info from them!