Jump to content

Follow Us:  Twitter Facebook RSS Feed            




   arrowShare this page:
   

   Get email alerts  Subscribe to FREE Celiac.com email alerts

 
Ads by Google:
Celiac.com Sponsor:                                    


Photo
- - - - -

Bourban Whiskey


  • Please log in to reply

25 replies to this topic

#1 BamBam

 
BamBam

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 312 posts
 

Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:50 PM

I was watching Emeril a couple weeks ago and he made some baby back ribs that are marinated in a bourban/apple cider marinade. Can we drink bourban, I know I am spelling it wrong, can't figure out how to spell it, sorry! I need to get to the liquor store in the next couple hours, so if anybody could answer this it would be great.

Thanks!

BAMBAM
  • 0
Montana
Self-diagnosed after many tests and no results to feel better
Gluten Free since 8-6-2005
Lactose free for many years
Casein Free since 02/14/06

Celiac.com Sponsor:

#2 Mtndog

 
Mtndog

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,254 posts
 

Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:57 PM

Bourbon is initially made from gluten-containing grain but the distillation process supposedly takes the gluten out. I have reacted to other alcohols made from grains so I usually stick to tequila, potato vodka, etc. But I think the general conscensus in celiac literature is that it's OK.

BUT, make sure there's nothing funky in the coloring.
  • 0
***************************
Beverly

Gluten free since 2005

In the midst of winter, I found there was within me an invincible summer.
Albert Careb


Posted Image

#3 Lisa

 
Lisa

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,799 posts
 

Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:57 PM

The CSA has recently declared that all distilled liquors remove the gluten in the process.

I am able to drink Seagrams 7 and Maker's Mark with no issue. I don't feel comfortable with Jim Beans and Jack Daniels though.

I know that Maker's Mark is listed on gluten free list. If you are not a big drinker, you can be one or two of the mini's.

If it turns out, please share the recipe.
  • 0
Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

#4 hez

 
hez

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 919 posts
 

Posted 10 February 2007 - 02:35 PM

I have Maker's Mark and have not had a problem. I think I got that off of a list on this site?

Hez
  • 0

#5 zansu

 
zansu

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 235 posts
 

Posted 10 February 2007 - 03:05 PM

I've had no problem with Jack Daniels bourbon, but I prefer single malt scotch :P
  • 0

#6 larry mac

 
larry mac

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
 

Posted 10 February 2007 - 07:14 PM

The CSA has recently declared that all distilled liquors remove the gluten in the process.


Everything I've read and heard since I was diagnosed eight weeks ago indicated the above statement is true (by everything I mean doctors & researchers). So if one believes it to be true, why would there be any difference in brands of whiskey, bourbon, vodka (unflavored although I don't know if that could make a difference), rum (same as vodka), tequila, etc.

I would only consider good quality spirits of course.


I'm under the impression that bourbon whiskey gets it's color from the charred casks it's aged in. Same for reposada & anejo tequila.

best regards, lm
  • 0

gluten-free 12-18-06

colonoscopy, upper GI
blood, urine, stool tests, prometheus panel
positive endoscopy/positive duodenal biopsies (severe villous atrophy, high intraepithelial lympocytes)
diagnosed celiac disease by Gastroenterologist Andrew R. Gottesman, 12-18-06

"Sobriety sucks. That's why they invented booze in the first place." Denis Leary - Rescue Me

Beware the chocolate of Chiapa


#7 Kaycee

 
Kaycee

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 742 posts
 

Posted 10 February 2007 - 11:00 PM

The fact that they claim bourbons do not have gluten in them is really annoying me, because I cannot drink Jack Daniel without getting a reaction!

Cathy
  • 0

#8 ravenwoodglass

 
ravenwoodglass

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,742 posts
 

Posted 11 February 2007 - 03:31 AM

Because everyone is different and some do seem to tolerate distilled grains (I do not and won't touch them) what I would do if I were you is I would get a small bottle. Then drink a shot a night for 3 days. Then wait another 2 to 3 days and add nothing else suspect into your diet at that time. If after this trial you haven't reacted then you know that it will most likely be tolerated (notice I didn't say safe) for you.
I have noticed that many times it is folks with more neuro symptoms that seem to react most strongly and some don't react at all but many of us do react. Trust your body and let it tell you.
  • 0
Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying
"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)


celiac 49 years - Misdiagnosed for 45
Blood tested and repeatedly negative
Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002
Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis
All bold resoved or went into remission with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002
Some residual nerve damage remains as of 2006- this has continued to resolve after eliminating soy in 2007

Mother died of celiac related cancer at 56
Twin brother died as a result of autoimmune liver destruction at age 15

Children 2 with Ulcers, GERD, Depression, , 1 with DH, 1 with severe growth stunting (male adult 5 feet)both finally diagnosed Celiac through blood testing and 1 with endo 6 months after Mom


Positive to Soy and Casien also Aug 2007

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test Aug 2007
HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

#9 ravenwoodglass

 
ravenwoodglass

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,742 posts
 

Posted 11 February 2007 - 03:33 AM

The fact that they claim bourbons do not have gluten in them is really annoying me, because I cannot drink Jack Daniel without getting a reaction!

Cathy


Me too, and throw vinager and grain vodka in there also. One grain vodka and I black out for the rest of the night, potato lets me remember my good time :)
  • 0
Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying
"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)


celiac 49 years - Misdiagnosed for 45
Blood tested and repeatedly negative
Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002
Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis
All bold resoved or went into remission with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002
Some residual nerve damage remains as of 2006- this has continued to resolve after eliminating soy in 2007

Mother died of celiac related cancer at 56
Twin brother died as a result of autoimmune liver destruction at age 15

Children 2 with Ulcers, GERD, Depression, , 1 with DH, 1 with severe growth stunting (male adult 5 feet)both finally diagnosed Celiac through blood testing and 1 with endo 6 months after Mom


Positive to Soy and Casien also Aug 2007

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test Aug 2007
HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

#10 larry mac

 
larry mac

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
 

Posted 11 February 2007 - 08:08 AM

Because everyone is different and some do seem to tolerate distilled grains (I do not and won't touch them) ....... I have noticed that many times it is folks with more neuro symptoms that seem to react most strongly and some don't react at all but many of us do react....


rwg,

That's probably a very good point, thank you for making it. Must keep reminding myself of it. I'm fairly new and keep trying to make some sense of the stuff on this forum. I'd like to boil it down to some neat & tidy science that I can apply to me. There's two basic problems impeding this attempt. Human physiology and human psychology, and the enormous variations people display. If one doesn't allow for that, one could go bonkers, couldn't one?

For instance, the only physical symptoms I've ever had were d. , stomach illness associated with d. , weight loss, and lack of sleep from having to get up in the middle of the night. So I can't personally relate to many others problems. Who knows, that could change. I could develop other problems from going gluten-free. Or I could get tested at enterolabs and get allergic to everything (just kidding, couldn't resist, it's a joke really, don't know much about it, but I haven't seen anyone on here say they got tested and wasn't sensitive to anything). Please forgive me, I'm not a bad person, am I?

And don't even talk about people's heads. Celiac aside, we can't even agree on tuna fish. Some think Chicken of the Sea is disgusting and only eat Starkist (ok me). Or think tuna packed in oil is disgusting and only eat water. Some want to throw up if they taste a bourbon & coke, but love gin & tonic, etc. etc. etc, times a million.

So we start with that and then throw Celiac in there and then "viola", we got lots of different beliefs, some hard to swallow (literally).


name=]']]

You're talking about spirits here, but I'm thinking this could be a more general idea and apply in many other situactions.

If someone says "I can drink Makers Mark but not Jack Daniels", and if they have actually done it , ie. they had a reaction to Jack Daniels, well then that's easy to accept. That's real, observable science, for them. Doesn't matter if there's supposedly no gluten in either one. One made them sick and one didn't. What are you gonna do? You're gonna drink Makers Mark!

BTW, I have a little (ok a lot) of experience with both MM & JD and many others. One could say I like sour mash bourbon whiskey. Haven't had any problems celiac-wise with any spirits. But I have always noticed a very strong, distinctive taste with Jack Daniels Black, It's almost like I can taste the charcoal filtering or something. Not bad, but definately different. So what a coincidence that some are having a problem with it.

Sorry about the long post (assuming anyones still reading). I still love this forum. I've gotton a lot of great info & advise. It's frustating sometimes, but I feel much better off since I found it. Thanks to all! lm
  • 0

gluten-free 12-18-06

colonoscopy, upper GI
blood, urine, stool tests, prometheus panel
positive endoscopy/positive duodenal biopsies (severe villous atrophy, high intraepithelial lympocytes)
diagnosed celiac disease by Gastroenterologist Andrew R. Gottesman, 12-18-06

"Sobriety sucks. That's why they invented booze in the first place." Denis Leary - Rescue Me

Beware the chocolate of Chiapa


#11 Mtndog

 
Mtndog

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,254 posts
 

Posted 11 February 2007 - 09:50 AM

Me too, and throw vinager and grain vodka in there also. One grain vodka and I black out for the rest of the night, potato lets me remember my good time :)


Well-said! The potato part! :P It's hard because a lot of stuff is "technically" gluten-free but that doesn't maen you won't react to it. That's the hard part with the learning curve on this disease. You have to figure out what you react to and what you don't. <_<

One person will tell you that the Celiac Sprue association says blah blah is gluten-free but you react to it. You may be reacting to something else in said product or something about the processing, but all that matters is that you react to it, so YOU don't do it.

Then of course, there's the reverse- some people don't react at all, but that doesn't mean their intestines aren't being damaged. Grrrr! Welcome to the somewhat debatable, often contradictory, but mostly humorous world of Celiac Sprue where no topic is off-limits!
  • 0
***************************
Beverly

Gluten free since 2005

In the midst of winter, I found there was within me an invincible summer.
Albert Careb


Posted Image

#12 happygirl

 
happygirl

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,942 posts
 

Posted 11 February 2007 - 05:24 PM

Well said, Bev. :)

Also---its not just the CSA that says it. The American Dietetic Association states that distilled alcohols are safe.
  • 0

#13 ravenwoodglass

 
ravenwoodglass

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,742 posts
 

Posted 12 February 2007 - 03:46 AM

Well said, Bev. :)

Also---its not just the CSA that says it. The American Dietetic Association states that distilled alcohols are safe.


Actually CSA does not exactly say that, this is from their web site.

http://www.csaceliac...ten_choices.php


"Alcoholic Beverages
FOUNDATION STAGE:

Wine and brandies without preservatives and added dyes; potato vodka; most rums and tequila.


EXPANDING STAGE:

Distilled liquors known to be from wheat, barley or rye are categorized as “rendered gluten-free through processing.” If the product is from a gluten source, it does not conform to the diet of those who choose a zero tolerance level gluten-free diet."
  • 0
Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying
"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)


celiac 49 years - Misdiagnosed for 45
Blood tested and repeatedly negative
Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002
Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis
All bold resoved or went into remission with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002
Some residual nerve damage remains as of 2006- this has continued to resolve after eliminating soy in 2007

Mother died of celiac related cancer at 56
Twin brother died as a result of autoimmune liver destruction at age 15

Children 2 with Ulcers, GERD, Depression, , 1 with DH, 1 with severe growth stunting (male adult 5 feet)both finally diagnosed Celiac through blood testing and 1 with endo 6 months after Mom


Positive to Soy and Casien also Aug 2007

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test Aug 2007
HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

#14 gfp

 
gfp

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,311 posts
 

Posted 12 February 2007 - 03:56 AM

Everything I've read and heard since I was diagnosed eight weeks ago indicated the above statement is true (by everything I mean doctors & researchers). So if one believes it to be true, why would there be any difference in brands of whiskey, bourbon, vodka (unflavored although I don't know if that could make a difference), rum (same as vodka), tequila, etc.

I would only consider good quality spirits of course.


I'm under the impression that bourbon whiskey gets it's color from the charred casks it's aged in. Same for reposada & anejo tequila.

best regards, lm

Because the distillation process cannot guarantee the end product.
No two distillations are ever the same, even if they appear superficially so.
In the first place they never start with exactly the same ingredients and proportions because they start off with a fermented product which is the byproduct of yeast, sugar and whatever else is put in depending on the type of liquor.

Then the distillation process removes the volatile components according to ther boiling temperature.
However there is no such thing as a boiling temperature, only an average. Pure water can evaporate at 0c (-32F) directly, it doesn't just go from 99C-100C and start to evaporate but increases rapidly towards this point.
Small changes in pressure or the humidity (saturation) of the air it is evaporating into change this so you can't say even for pure water that at a certain temperature it will evaporate at a certain rate.

When you mix alcohol and water together it becomes azeotropic, that is the average boiling point of the two together is less for a certain temperature/pressure than either by itself. If you take distilled water and distilled alcohol and mix them and distill them you end up with (depending on outside pressure and the chamber used to collect the distillate 98% alcohol +/-) however the mix you are distilling from doesn't only contain alcohol and water but thousands of products which are the byproduct of the yeast, its food and its excrement. Yechnically speaking alcohol is yeast poo. Although much simpler than us yeast make different poo according to what they eat and other condisitons.

Many of these other byprodcuts also affect the distillation process by either attracting or being attacted to either water, alcohol or both... or being strongly repelled by either or both not to mention each other.

Thus when you run a distillation the intial products are often methanol but also the corresponding aldehydes and ketones along with things which are attracted to them.
When a certain product of the distillate is in its acme for evaporation this can carry much larger molecules with it if these molecules are bound to many of the primary distillate at that temp and pressure.

When doing distillations in research they are undertaken in pressure controlled environments, the air pressure is artifically maintained to reduce the effects of changing weather etc.

Anyway, the point is distillation is a process that starts off making byproducts (actually toxic ones) which are disguarded ... then its mainly alcohol with increasing water until at the heavy end you start getting significant toxic products again and its diguarded...however these toxic products are still present in liquor, they are just moderately toxic and eliminating them 100% is usually pointless because our body will actually turn the alcohol back into many of them anyway....

If you repeat a distillation 100x then each one will be subtly different even from the same "mash" of fermented stuff.

As a analogy the same is true for fermentation. Great winemakers invest significant money in getting a single vat big enough to process all of one type of wine together. They know from experience if they take the same raw materials and ferment it in 10 identical smaller vats they will all be different and even after they bottle the wine no two bottles even from the same vat on the same day will be the same as any other bottle. The amount someone is willing to pay for a great wine depends largely on consistency... you don't want to spend $500 on a bottle and find its a poor example of that wine for that year.

The distillation process is like this, its not consistent ....

If distillation produced a pure water/alcohol mix then unaged/uncolored and unflavored rum, vodka and tequilla would all taste the same...


I'm under the impression that bourbon whiskey gets it's color from the charred casks it's aged in.

There are various ways, the major part of commercial grade stuff is often aged in wine or port casks... so the part of the flavor is depending on that type of wine/port... however at this point you can probably answer the question yourself....

If it was solely the barrels and we were adding pure alcohol and water then bourbon, whisky and whiskey would all taste the same... if the same barrels were used....

The last thing to consider is its not gluten makes us ill but a very small part of gluten that we are not quite sure what it is....
What we do know is that this sequence must be the same or functionally the same in wheat, barley and rye proteins ...

However consider for a moment the way we got told atoms were the smallest particle, then electrons and since then pois, hadons, muons and kaons.
Although postulated in the 1960 the Higgs Boson has yet to be found.... even though the heavier bosons have been....

If you think sub-atomic particles and quantum theory are irrelevant then that is because you don't understand distillation.
The actual act of evaporation and the measurement of a distillate and the conditions acting upon it is a direct expression of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle...


edits added after .....

"Alcoholic Beverages
FOUNDATION STAGE:

Wine and brandies without preservatives and added dyes; potato vodka; most rums and tequila.


EXPANDING STAGE:

Distilled liquors known to be from wheat, barley or rye are categorized as “rendered gluten-free through processing.” If the product is from a gluten source, it does not conform to the diet of those who choose a zero tolerance level gluten-free diet."


Yes and doubtless people will choose to ignore that and continue to post that all distilled alcohol is safe.

So we start with that and then throw Celiac in there and then "viola", we got lots of different beliefs, some hard to swallow (literally).

This isn't a belief, I spent most of my life working as a research scientist, several years of which were directly related to distillation.

The thing I forgot to mention which is I think critical is that because each batch is potentially different you can't just test a few bottles of each... They might make 10 or 100 batches without gliadins but the 101'st might be the one...?
This might not matter so much except many of us here (myself included) tend to divide stuff into safe and unsafe.

In the safe categories we tend to have our habitual fallbacks and preferences of habit....

Alcohol is one of those cases where many people tend to have their drink... the one they take without having to think... so having something on your safe list which potentially is your fallback is probably worse than something your going to try from time to time... you can also if you like add that when we order drinks our judgment is often impaired to some degree or other.... we are more prone to take a risk after a few drinks... :D

Finally wishful thinking plays a large part... IMHO....

Another thing i didn't mention was that the bodies adsorbtion of tiny amounts of gliadins is likely to be different according to the delivery method... does having it attached to alcohol increase or decrease its transmission across the gut-blood barrier? (I don't know)... what I do know is that the method of transmission of many larger particles is dependant upon ion channels where large molecules essentailly piggyback through "gates" they shouldn't...
  • 0
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

#15 Mtndog

 
Mtndog

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,254 posts
 

Posted 12 February 2007 - 05:50 AM

EXPANDING STAGE:
Distilled liquors known to be from wheat, barley or rye are categorized as “rendered gluten-free through processing.” If the product is from a gluten source, it does not conform to the diet of those who choose a zero tolerance level gluten-free diet."


This is good to know! I hadn't seen this latest statement and it would certainly explain why I (my body) wants to stick to potatoes and anything NOT made originally from gluten!
  • 0
***************************
Beverly

Gluten free since 2005

In the midst of winter, I found there was within me an invincible summer.
Albert Careb


Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Celiac.com Sponsors: