Vegan Diet Questions?

[Guest AutumnE]

Im planning on trying dr fine's diet but Im worried about b12. I do take a bcomplex vitamin and Im eating nuts. How much fat should I get from the nuts and how much b12 should I get in the vitamin?

Thanks so much

Autumn

[HawkFire]

Autumn, you need only take chlorella and spirulina. Find them at your health food store and make sure they are gluten free. Most are. They are algae. They are loaded with b12 and protein. Makes it all so simple.

[Lisa]

Autumn, you need only take chlorella and spirulina. Find them at your health food store and make sure they are gluten free. Most are. They are algae. They are loaded with b12 and protein. Makes it all so simple.

I have an issue with recommending certain supplements without medical impute. You never know what shoes someone is walking in. You don't know what interation may cause a problem. To make a certain recommendation is not responsible.

We are not doctors. We are here to support those that ask about Celiac.

[lorka150]

Nutritional yeast is an EXCELLENT source of B12. It provides everything you need without supplements. It's a staple in a vegan diet.

[HawkFire]

I have an issue with recommending certain supplements without medical impute. You never know what shoes someone is walking in. You don't know what interation may cause a problem. To make a certain recommendation is not responsible.

We are not doctors. We are here to support those that ask about Celiac.

Momma Goose,

Spirulina and chlorella are simply algae. Little green plants. It's as if I were recommending lettuce to the poster. Without any doubt, I suggested to her two "supplements" which are very good for vegans and vegetarians to know about. The b12 alone makes them worth knowing about. Then there is the protein. You cannot find plant sources with this amount of b12 and protein any place else. They also contain iron and should be recommended to all those difficient in iron. Not only that, but the chlorella effectively removes metals from the body. All those needing address that problem in particular, should do some very quick research on chlorella. Studies from Russia after Chernobyl proved to everyone looking that chlorella can remove all sorts of poisons from the body.

Then there is the laxitive effect of both. Now, if you have IBS or something where you don't want to increase the problem, then avoid the two. However, if you are iron difficient and taking iron pills, you probably will become quite constipated. Chlorella and spirulina can solve those problems as well as build up your iron.

I feel that you supposed a problem with my recommendation and felt the need to scold me. It wasn't necessary. I didn't make a harmful suggestion. You should do research on these two algae "Green Super Foods" before you worry so much. Frankly, I do not even know why the government is calling them a "supplement" unless it is similar to the situation with Stevia which is only allowed to be called a "supplement" by the fda. I do not agree with any of that for these three products. Everyone knows stevia is not a suppliment. My feeling is that chlorella and spriulina are not supplements any more than kelp or lettuce or broccoli are supplements.

Finally, your post to me seemed very inappropriate. This poster asked a Vegan titled question. Talked about supplements and asked for advice. Telling me I crossed a line and didn't consider walking in her shoes was very strange. I do not get why you felt the need to attack me.

[HawkFire]

Nutritional yeast is an EXCELLENT source of B12. It provides everything you need without supplements. It's a staple in a vegan diet.

Lorka, I have no idea about yeast. Can you tell me, does it cause yeast infection problems? I have done research on many products but never yeast. Sometimes when I make a loaf of bread and there is a yeast package, I consider not using it because I feel that I will encourage yeast problems in my body. Are these the same things? Thankyou

[RiceGuy]

Nutritional yeast is an EXCELLENT source of B12. It provides everything you need without supplements. It's a staple in a vegan diet.

Personally, I'd NEVER touch that stuff. Why? MSG!

Since many forms of yeast produce free glutamic acid (among other things), I'm sure I'm not the only one whom wouldn't benefit from it.

For B12, I just take a sublingual methylcobalamin. The body does store up B12 if there is more available than it needs for daily maintenance. Studies show such stored amounts can last many years, even decades. So it isn't always necessary to obtain it every day, though bear in mind the propensity for Celiacs to be deficient in B12.

As for fats, nut are good sources, as well as many other things. Coconut oil is fantastic IMHO, though too pricey for my budget. Various seeds can also be good sources of fats, and of course there's soy products such as tofu for those who can have that.

I haven't ever counted calories, fats, or any other aspect of my diet. I just maintain as wide a variety as I can, which seems to work most of the time. I also try to listen to what my body tells me, so if it needs something, I hope to notice the signals. I can't say it always works though.

[spunky]

vegans and celiacs probably would all be better off to supplement with b12.

You can just buy any cheap, generic b12 tablets, making sure they are gluten free (and vegan too!). Even if they aren't made to be chewed, it's best to chew them up anyway, because they are difficult to absorb when swallowed whole.

B12 is nothing to mess around with: by the time anyone finds out they are low, they can already be suffering from neurological damage (among other things), which can often be irreversible.

You can't count on the nutritional yeast or aglae, etc. to provide B12, because they often contain b12 analogs that confuse the body and even may rob the body of b12.

It's cheap, safe, and and easy thing to do. Take a B12 tablet every day.

[CarlaB]

Lorka, I have no idea about yeast. Can you tell me, does it cause yeast infection problems? I have done research on many products but never yeast. Sometimes when I make a loaf of bread and there is a yeast package, I consider not using it because I feel that I will encourage yeast problems in my body. Are these the same things? Thankyou

I believe the yeasts are different. However, most people with candida problems should avoid yeast and sugar. I'm on strong long-term antibiotics for the Lyme, and my doc does not allow me to have any yeast or sugar (or alcohol).

The book The Yeast Connection suggests that some people need to avoid yeast and others don't. He suggests to start out an anti-candida diet yeast-free, then challenge it later to see if you can tolerate it.

[lorka150]

HawkFire,

CarlaB is right, it's different than bread yeast. It's used more as a flavouring - like a spice. It is flaky like potato flakes. But either way, it is still yeast and if you have yeast problems, I would not recommend it in that case.

you can get tested for B12 through bloodwork. Do that BEFORE you take supplements.

RiceGuy - do you have some info regarding nutritional yeast and MSG? I'm a little confused by your post. I do not want to start a debate, I am curious. Thank you.

[hathor]

Im planning on trying dr fine's diet but Im worried about b12. I do take a bcomplex vitamin and Im eating nuts. How much fat should I get from the nuts and how much b12 should I get in the vitamin?

Thanks so much

Autumn

People certainly have different opinions as to what amount of fat is optimum in the diet. Perhaps it differs for different people, too. I don't want to go there

I haven't tried Dr. Fine's diet myself. A few of us on the McDougall board's gluten-free forum were trying to figure out the other day what one actually EATS on the thing. We eat vegan too, but it is a different sort. Fine doesn't believe in starchy veggies, right, or any grains? You are going to end up with lots of fat from the nuts because that is where the major calories are going to come from -- unless you eat a whole lot of fruit.

This may be similar to Dr. Fuhrman's "Eat to Live" diet. I've just heard from people who did it for awhile and just couldn't hack it. But then, the ones I hear from are on the McDougall board. Any satisfied Fuhrmanistas aren't going to be posting there.

You can always email Dr. Fine and ask him for more details, see what studies he has to support his diet, etc.

If your concern is getting essential fatty acids, here are a couple articles about vegan sources. Flax seed & walnuts seem to be particularly good. I also like hemp seed, since I've found some yummy tortillas made with the stuff, along with some other seeds (doesn't sound like it would work, but it does). Anyway, the articles:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

I've recently heard about a seed that is supposed to be even better than flax, sabia. Open Original Shared Link

But I haven't tried the stuff or done any research beyond seeing this web site.

I imagine that any B complex you take would have a sufficient amount of B12. If you've had malabsorption or are older you might want a bit more than 100% RDA to be on the safe side. Anything excess to your needs is simply eliminated by your body, as I understand it. Of course, if you are tired, you may want to have your blood level checked for the B12. My husband had this symptom, had his blood checked, found his B12 was low, and started taking the smallest amount of B12 he could find. (He doesn't have any malabsorption problems or food intolerances that we know of, though.) He was fine after that.

Here is an article about B12 and veganism:

Open Original Shared Link

B12 seems to be the one thing that people agree that strict vegans should supplement or make sure that they have a regular source of. I can't drink supplemented soy milk or eat nutritional yeast. Not that I ever developed much of a taste for the latter -- it had to be hidden with a bunch of different ingredients; apparently it can be an acquired taste, but I never had motivation enough to acquire one. So it is a supplement for me.

BTW I ran across a study that indicated that quite a few celiacs (around half) have an immune response to yeast. The link I saved isn't working. But anyway, if you happen to be one of those, it wouldn't seem to be a good idea to start consuming the stuff everyday for B12.

This is a general article about nutrition for celiacs you might find of interest:

Open Original Shared Link

[hathor]

Nutritional yeast is still Saccharomyces cerevisiae, the same species used for baking and brewing.

My understanding is that it is autolyzed yeast or yeast extract that contains MSG or rather, a substance that chemically acts like it. It is possible to hide these substances using names other than MSG. Here's an article: Open Original Shared Link

Here is the article's link of ingredients for those concerned with MSG:

Open Original Shared Link

I know no more than this and can't really debate the subject. I have a book ordered on such so-called excitotoxins as MSG and aspartame (by Dr. Blaylock -- if you google, you can find quite a bit of his stuff on the internet). Not that reading the book would make me an expert -- just someone who knows a bit more on the subject. I haven't undertaken to omit MSG and its brethren from my diet yet because it is enough to deal with my known intolerances at this point. But it looks like I have to avoid most of this stuff anyway. And my preference is to buy things with ingredients I understand ... not that I understood about the yeast extract until right now

[HawkFire]

Personally, I'd NEVER touch that stuff. Why? MSG!

As for fats, nut are good sources, as well as many other things. Coconut oil is fantastic IMHO, though too pricey for my budget. Various seeds can also be good sources of fats, and of course there's soy products such as tofu for those who can have that.

I use coconut oil daily. I pay $15 for a jar of the finer quality coconut oil. I find that it is cost comparable to butter. Our four sticks of organic butter is $5.oo as I noticed in the supermarket the other day. The cost isn't equal because the coconut oil lasts much longer. You use less. The coconut oil takes much longer to use. Consider this. You use far less to "butter" a pan, less on toast, and less in baking. I find my recipes require less cocconut oil than butter called for. I add two tbs for each half cup of coconut oil in a recipe to replace the missing moisture.

[HawkFire]

Nutritional yeast is still Saccharomyces cerevisiae, the same species used for baking and brewing.

My understanding is that it is autolyzed yeast or yeast extract that contains MSG or rather, a substance that chemically acts like it. It is possible to hide these substances using names other than MSG. Here's an article: Open Original Shared Link

Here is the article's link of ingredients for those concerned with MSG:

Open Original Shared Link

I know no more than this and can't really debate the subject. I have a book ordered on such so-called excitotoxins as MSG and aspartame (by Dr. Blaylock -- if you google, you can find quite a bit of his stuff on the internet). Not that reading the book would make me an expert -- just someone who knows a bit more on the subject. I haven't undertaken to omit MSG and its brethren from my diet yet because it is enough to deal with my known intolerances at this point. But it looks like I have to avoid most of this stuff anyway. And my preference is to buy things with ingredients I understand ... not that I understood about the yeast extract until right now

Is this the ebook? I have it as well. It is good. Getting rid of msg is difficult because you forget words like yeast. On line, I found Glutino pretzels and the on line information says in the ingredient: Yeast...

The package says: Yeast extract. I have called the company but gotten no response. I was unclear if yeast was different from Yeast extract and if they were different, why were they not labeling correctly. The bag of pretzels is expensive. But a waste of money if they added msg.

[hathor]

Is this the ebook?

Nope. I'm an old sort -- still like the feel of a paper book This is why I'm having to wait on the book.

[Jestgar]

Here's a site that talks a bit about the B12 content of various plants. Bottom line is: It's not clear that any of the B12 analogues in plants are biavailable to humans. Better to stick to supplements.

Open Original Shared Link

[hathor]

The link on the yeast study now works:

Open Original Shared Link

If it doesn't work for you, just try later

[RiceGuy]

RiceGuy - do you have some info regarding nutritional yeast and MSG? I'm a little confused by your post. I do not want to start a debate, I am curious. Thank you.

Well, though I don't have specific links at hand, the reading I've done on yeasts in general is that many if not all seem to have various toxic compounds (such as acids) as waste products. Mold, fungi, etc are similar in this regard. One example which most people can relate to is poisonous mushrooms, some of which contain hallucinogenic compounds. Perhaps the term "tripping on acid" rings a bell. Anyway, MSG is used as a flavor enhancer. There was a recent thread discussing how it has this effect, and why the effect is so dangerous. So to answer your question, I'd refer to a comment which you yourself made:

HawkFire,

CarlaB is right, it's different than bread yeast. It's used more as a flavouring - like a spice.

'Nuff said.

[lorka150]

I realize the dangers of MSG and that it is a flavouring agent, but I don't see the correlation with nutritional yeast - that is why I am confused. Thanks, though, I guess.

[AndreaB]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents worth on the b12.

I was vegan for 3 years and before that either ovo, or lacto-ovo vegetarian for another 5 years or so.

I took a prenatal which had 100% b12, drank fortified soy milk, ate things with yeast flakes in it frequently. Mind you this was all pre gluten free.

My b12 was low even with all that.

For my body, the vegan diet was good. We are now intolerant to most vegan proteins (soy, gluten, legumes).

A lot of people do very good on the vegan diet but you should have your vitamin levels checked (especially b12 and iron). Some people do better on it short term. The most important thing is to listen to your body. For my family as much as we would have preferred to be on a lacto-ovo to vegan diet, we can't due to intolerances.

For b12 I would recommend sublinqual or shots.

[HawkFire]

Here's a site that talks a bit about the B12 content of various plants. Bottom line is: It's not clear that any of the B12 analogues in plants are biavailable to humans. Better to stick to supplements.

Open Original Shared Link

This is why I get the "pulverized" chlorella. Makes more available for absorption.

[CarlaB]

This is why I get the "pulverized" chlorella. Makes more available for absorption.

The thing to be cautious of with the chlorella is if you have any heavy metal issues. It's used as a chelator. If you get the metals stirred up, you might feel bad ... and you will need to be sure you're taking something to eliminate them. Metals commonly go along with candida issues and even Lyme, so messing with the metals can make you feel ill. I actually have a heavy metal problem, but my doc says it's not time to work on it until I'm feeling somewhat better. I'm not strong enough now to have the metals moving around in my system.

Chelating is only half of it, elimination is the other half.

[Guest AutumnE]

Thanks for the information

Its given me alot to think about. Well I cant do yeast, huge mold allergy. I have candida issues, I think, I seem to get yeast infections easily. I will have to read up more on chlorella and spirulina but I have many health issues besides celiac disease so it might not be wise. Honestly I just want to figure out my intolerances more so I dont feel yucky everyday. For the past couple of days I felt fine and then the big "D" set in and hasn't let up. I know I cant eat dairy, soy, gluten, other grains, corn, and I think potatoes are an issue. I have upset stomach lately for no reason and I figured maybe its meat? I just want to be healthy. But now the nuts are bothering me. Frankly I have to eat some kind of protein as I have insulin resistance and have to balance it out. I might revisit limiting meats again to try and figure it out, maybe just smaller amounts of kosher chicken and focus more on veggies and fruit?

I just feel at a loss and I don't know what to do........

[AndreaB]

I know I cant eat dairy, soy, gluten, other grains, corn, and I think potatoes are an issue. I have upset stomach lately for no reason and I figured maybe its meat? I just want to be healthy. But now the nuts are bothering me.

Have you been tested for candida? Maybe you could try the candida diet. The gals on the OMG thread can help you out with that.

[Guest AutumnE]

Thanks Andrea

I havent been tested for it yet but I did talk to Carla a little while back about it. I tried it but it drained my energy and at the time it wasnt working to be that tired. Im going to revisit it and see if it works.

Autumn