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Dr. Wakefield Trial (mmr/autism Possible Link)


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#31 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 14 February 2009 - 06:38 AM

:blink:
Are you saying that uninformed folks are not vaccinating their children because Wakefield is being subjected to a 'media witch' trial?

Folks are not vaccinating their children because they are seeing their friends', neighbors', and relatives' children go for their vaccines as healthy children and come back from their vaccines not just unhealthy, but with their lives ruined.

When my SIL's SIL saw what had happened to her child, she didn't take long to put two and two together, and she called me and said, "DON'T give the MMR to your kid, look what it did to my kid." And she had never heard of Andrew Wakefield or his research.

It was 2 days after my kid had his MMR. Had I known in time, I certainly would not have given it to him, and would have requested the separated vaccines instead.

As it is, at least I did not give him the second dose, and was able to prove through a titre that he had plenty of immunity (4 times the minimum number of antibodies). And every school year, even though they have at least 7 copies of that titre as well as a letter from the pediatrician on file (because I give them one every year), the school nurse or principal call, saying that he must have the second shot in order to be allowed to attend school. The copy I'd given them the year before mysteriously "vanishes," and I have to jump through all kinds of time-consuming hoops to satisfy them. This has happened now for 7 years in a row.

It's jumping to conclusions to blame Wakefield for people's choosing not to vaccinate. Come on, look around you at the vast numbers of kids who are having severe reactions to vaccines (not limited to the MMR). Their parents are the ones seeing the reactions, reporting it to the doctors (who blow them off and say it CAN'T be the vaccines--sounds familiar? Just like the lipitor fiasco?), and are LIVING with the devastating results.

This is what is motivating people to stop vaccinating altogether.
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#32 JNBunnie1

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 09:58 AM

Anything is possible. I certainly am not so naive as to think that bad folks don't do bad things when much money is at stake. I recall an earlier post wondering why the pharmas didn't simply go with multiple vaccines as that would benefit them financially. Well? That data point doesn't fit so nicely into the idea that they are only in it for the money and would gladly ruin doctors' lives and kill children to make a buck.

But I cannot defend them as I have no way of truly knowing what is going on. I did not post here to defend pharma or the media. The media has little to do with my point - the results of a trial. I have, however, done some reading on Wakefield and everything I have seen - including what I have read here on this forum (which I find unpersuasive) - leads me to believe that he faked some data and his warnings have in the overall been detrimental to his cause (if his cause is the safety of children). I am like you - I don't trust the media. That's why I research alternate sources for my information. I do the best I can and what I have in front of me, that I can trust, indicates that Wakefield was the one who was trying to make a buck.

Overall I don't give a darn about him. I hope that parents get the vaccinations their children need so that they can avoid these very dangerous childhood diseases.







I'm confused. In what way did Wakefield stand to make money off of this subject?
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#33 sbj

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 10:21 AM

I'm confused. In what way did Wakefield stand to make money off of this subject?

ANDREW WAKEFIELD, the former surgeon whose campaign linking the MMR vaccine with autism caused a collapse in immunisation rates, was paid more than £400,000 by lawyers trying to prove that the vaccine was unsafe.

The payments, unearthed by The Sunday Times, were part of £3.4m distributed from the legal aid fund to doctors and scientists who had been recruited to support a now failed lawsuit against vaccine manufacturers.

Critics this weekend voiced amazement at the sums, which they said created a clear conflict of interest and were the "financial engine" behind a worldwide alarm over the triple measles, mumps and rubella shot.
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#34 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 10:52 AM

ANDREW WAKEFIELD, the former surgeon whose campaign linking the MMR vaccine with autism caused a collapse in immunisation rates, was paid more than £400,000 by lawyers trying to prove that the vaccine was unsafe.

The payments, unearthed by The Sunday Times, were part of £3.4m distributed from the legal aid fund to doctors and scientists who had been recruited to support a now failed lawsuit against vaccine manufacturers.

Critics this weekend voiced amazement at the sums, which they said created a clear conflict of interest and were the "financial engine" behind a worldwide alarm over the triple measles, mumps and rubella shot.


First of all, that was years, maybe even decades AFTER his research. Those fees are standard for any medical expert.

Second of all, 400,000 pounds is a drop in the bucket compared to what the pharm industry pays THEIR "experts," who are still pointing to flawed studies (where the kids most likely to develop autism are pulled out) as "proof" that vaccines aren't linked with autism. Notice that the article didn't even mention that pharm industry paid its experts, too, let alone how much.

3rd, the media is part of the feeding frenzy here, and they are spreading outright lies. Here in the US, I keep hearing on the news and reading in the paper that the latest vaccine court result "proves" that vaccines aren't linked with autism, which is ridiculous, as nothing was proved, and the vaccine court never claimed that it was.

This is nothing new with the media--every summer, you read that your child CANNOT attend school without all vaccines, and that's an outright lie, too.
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#35 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 10:54 AM

I apologize for the length of this, but please feel free to print out and bring to your pediatrician!!


The Warranty of Vaccine Safety For Pediatricians



Physician’s Warranty of Vaccine Safety

I (Physician’s name, degree)_________________________, _____ am a physician licensed to practice medicine in the State of ________________ . My State license number is _______________ , and my DEA number is _______________. My medical specialty is ________________________
I have a thorough understanding of the risks and benefits of all the medications that I prescribe for or administer to my patients. In the case of (Patient’s name) ___________________________ ,
age _________ , whom I have examined, I find that certain risk factors exist that justify the recommended vaccinations. The following is a list of said risk factors and the vaccinations that will protect against them:
Risk Factor Vaccination
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________
_____________________________________________________ _______________________________

I am aware that vaccines typically contain many of the following fillers:

• aluminum hydroxide
• aluminum phosphate
• ammonium sulfate
• amphotericin B
• animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
• dog kidney, monkey kidney,
• chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg


• calf (bovine) serum
• betapropiolactone
• fetal bovine serum
• formaldehyde
• formalin
• gelatin
• glycerol
• human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
• hydrolized gelatin
• mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate®)
• monosodium glutamate (MSG)
• neomycin
• neomycin sulfate
• phenol red indicator
• phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
• potassium diphosphate
• potassium monophosphate
• polymyxin B
• polysorbate 20
• polysorbate 80
• porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
• residual MRC5 proteins
• sorbitol
• tri(n)butylphosphate,
• VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and
• washed sheep red blood

(www.wellnessshow.blogspot.com, http://www.909shot.com, http://www.cbn.com/C...ws/204991.aspx)

and, hereby, warrant that these ingredients are safe for injection into the body of my patient. I have researched reports to the contrary, such as reports that mercury thimerosal causes severe neurological and immunological damage, and find that they are not credible.

I am aware that some vaccines have been found to have been contaminated with Simian Virus 40 (SV 40) and that SV 40 is causally linked by some researchers to non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and mesotheliomas in humans as well as in experimental animals. I hereby warrant that the vaccines I employ in my practice do not contain SV 40 or any other live viruses. (Alternately, I hereby warrant that said SV-40 virus or other viruses pose no substantive risk to my patient.)

I hereby warrant that the vaccines I am recommending for the care of (Patient’s name) _______________ _______________________ do not contain any tissue from aborted human babies (also known as “fetuses”).

In order to protect my patient’s well being, I have taken the following steps to guarantee that the vaccines I will use will contain no damaging contaminants.

STEPS TAKEN: ____________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

I have personally investigated the reports made to the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) and state that it is my professional opinion that the vaccines I am recommending are safe for administration to a child under the age of 5 years.

The bases for my opinion are itemized on Exhibit A , attached hereto, – “Physician’s Bases for Professional Opinion of Vaccine Safety.” (Please itemize each recommended vaccine separately along with the bases for arriving at the conclusion that the vaccine is safe for administration to a child under the age of 5 years.)

The professional journal articles I have relied upon in the issuance of this Physician’s Warranty of Vaccine Safety are itemized on Exhibit B , attached hereto, – “Scientific Articles in Support of Physician’s Warranty of Vaccine Safety.”

The professional journal articles that I have read which contain opinions adverse to my opinion are itemized on Exhibit C , attached hereto, – “Scientific Articles Contrary to Physician’s Opinion of Vaccine Safety.”

The reasons for my determining that the articles in Exhibit C were invalid are delineated in Attachment D , attached hereto, – “Physician’s Reasons for Determining the Invalidity of Adverse Scientific Opinions.”

Hepatitis B

I understand that 60% of patients who are vaccinated for Hepatitis B will lose detectable antibodies to Hepatitis B within 12 years.

I understand that in 1996 only 54 cases of Hepatitis B were reported to the CDC in the 0-1 year age group.

I understand that in the VAERS, there were 1,080 total reports of adverse reactions from Hepatitis B vaccine in 1996 in the 0-1 year age group, with 47 deaths reported.

I understand that 50% of patients who contract Hepatitis B develop no symptoms after exposure.

I understand that 30% will develop only flu-like symptoms and will have lifetime immunity.

I understand that 20% will develop the symptoms of the disease, but that 95% will fully recover and have lifetime immunity.

I understand that 5% of the patients who are exposed to Hepatitis B will become chronic carriers of the disease.

I understand that 75% of the chronic carriers will live with an asymptomatic infection and that only 25% of the chronic carriers will develop chronic liver disease or liver cancer, 10-30 years after the acute infection.

The following scientific studies have been performed to demonstrate the safety of the Hepatitis B vaccine in children under the age of 5 years.
___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________

In addition to the recommended vaccinations as protections against the above cited risk factors, I have recommended other non-vaccine measures to protect the health of my patient and have enumerated said non-vaccine measures on Exhibit D , attached hereto, “Non-vaccine Measures to Protect Against Risk Factors.”

I am issuing this Physician’s Warranty of Vaccine Safety in my professional capacity as the attending physician to (Patient’s name) ________________________________. Regardless of the legal entity under which I normally practice medicine, I am issuing this statement in both my business and individual capacities and hereby waive any statutory, Common Law, Constitutional, UCC, international treaty, and any other legal immunities from liability lawsuits in the instant case.

I issue this document of my own free will after consultation with competent legal counsel whose name is _____________________________, an attorney admitted to the Bar in the State of __________________ .

__________________________________ (Name of Attending Physician)


__________________________________ L.S. (Signature of Attending Physician)
Signed on this _______ day of ______________ A.D. ________

Witness: ___________________________________ Date: ________________________

Notary Public: ______________________________ Date: ________________________
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#36 Ursa Major

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 02:27 PM

I copied and saved the form, in case I ever need it. No doctor in his right mind would sign that, of course, but it would sure make them realize what they are doing (at least I hope so).
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I am a German citizen, married to a Canadian 29 years, four daughters, one son, seven granddaughters and four grandsons, with one more grandchild on the way in July 2009.

Intolerant to all lectins (including gluten), nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, eggplant) and salicylates.

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#37 mommida

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 03:24 PM

Wakefield seems to be taking the blame for less MMR vaccinations.
People could be choosing not to vaccinate for other reasons. Religous or contraindictions from the vaccine package insert. Andrew Wakefield has not started any new religion or chosen all of the ingredients for the MMR vaccine. (To the best of my knowledge.) In my opinion he can not take all of the blame for statistics of MMR vaccination.
i.e.
Human Diploid cells (Many religions have issues with aborted fetal "ingredients")
The rise in allergies for humans in general.
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#38 Ursa Major

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 04:16 PM

Wakefield seems to be taking the blame for less MMR vaccinations.
People could be choosing not to vaccinate for other reasons. Religous or contraindictions from the vaccine package insert. Andrew Wakefield has not started any new religion or chosen all of the ingredients for the MMR vaccine. (To the best of my knowledge.) In my opinion he can not take all of the blame for statistics of MMR vaccination.
i.e.
Human Diploid cells (Many religions have issues with aborted fetal "ingredients")
The rise in allergies for humans in general.


You are right. I had never heard of him before looking at this thread. Yet when I started doing research on vaccinations (and KNOWING that my oldest daughter got damaged by the DPT vaccine) after my youngest daughter got her first shot 17 years ago, NONE of my five kids ever got another vaccine.

And my youngest ended up being the healthiest of the bunch.
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I am a German citizen, married to a Canadian 29 years, four daughters, one son, seven granddaughters and four grandsons, with one more grandchild on the way in July 2009.

Intolerant to all lectins (including gluten), nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, eggplant) and salicylates.

Asperger Syndrome, Tourette Syndrome, Addison's disease (adrenal insufficiency), hypothyroidism, fatigue syndrome, asthma

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#39 purple

 
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Posted 16 February 2009 - 09:43 PM

Every doctor should have a signed copy of that form, hanging on the wall, for all parents and other people to read!
Ha...like that would ever happen :huh:
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#40 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:01 PM

Every doctor should have a signed copy of that form, hanging on the wall, for all parents and other people to read!
Ha...like that would ever happen :huh:



Personally, I think we should all be bringing printouts of this form to our next appointment. It would be interesting to compare notes on the reactions of the doctors to reading this.

When you think about it, they tell us to sign a form saying that we have been told of the risks--but we are NEVER told of ALL the risks. The only risks I've ever been told of are swelling, minor pain, and redness at the site of the injection. I've been told, 'if he runs a fever, give him Tylenol," but I've never been told that fever is a risk, specifically!

But what genius--make the doctor admit that he or she actually KNOWS of the REAL risks by asking them to sign a form that actually lists them!
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#41 JNBunnie1

 
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Posted 18 February 2009 - 05:04 PM

ANDREW WAKEFIELD, the former surgeon whose campaign linking the MMR vaccine with autism caused a collapse in immunisation rates, was paid more than £400,000 by lawyers trying to prove that the vaccine was unsafe.

The payments, unearthed by The Sunday Times, were part of £3.4m distributed from the legal aid fund to doctors and scientists who had been recruited to support a now failed lawsuit against vaccine manufacturers.

Critics this weekend voiced amazement at the sums, which they said created a clear conflict of interest and were the "financial engine" behind a worldwide alarm over the triple measles, mumps and rubella shot.



Any idea what the experts for the defense were paid?
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#42 sbj

 
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Posted 18 February 2009 - 06:53 PM

Any idea what the experts for the defense were paid?

No. Do you? I'd be very interested in any facts you could bring to this discussion - other than baseless charges. So do please educate me . . .

I do, however, know that Wakefield was paid . . . Don't you find it interesting that the same folks who get irate because doctors are taking money from pharma are not at all concerend that Wakefield takes money from the law firms suing pharma?

Are you aware that there is currently a measles epidemic in England due to the large number of parents who are now scared to have their children vaccinated? Do you think that's a good thing? Are you aware that a special US court created to look at just this particular charge found that the plaintiffs could not prove that the MMR vaccine caused any autism?

I don't care much about Wakefield, bunnie, but I do care about children needlessly suffering and being put in harm's way . . . Am I wrong for that?
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#43 psawyer

 
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Posted 18 February 2009 - 07:11 PM

Jerry, it is a fact that the experts who testify on court cases are vary rarely doing so out of the goodness of their hearts. The investigation takes time, and the court appearance also takes time. These professionals, like all professionals, charge fees for their services.

The phrase "billable hours" comes to mind, and it is not just lawyers that it applies to. I have done consulting work, and if I spent six minutes in the shower thinking about the client's problem, that was 0.1 billable hours.
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#44 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:39 PM

No. Do you? I'd be very interested in any facts you could bring to this discussion - other than baseless charges. So do please educate me . . .

Are you aware that a special US court created to look at just this particular charge found that the plaintiffs could not prove that the MMR vaccine caused any autism?

I don't care much about Wakefield, bunnie, but I do care about children needlessly suffering and being put in harm's way . . . Am I wrong for that?


#1) It is standard practice in litigation (in the US and in England) to pay medical experts (or any other experts) for their testimony. This is true for either side.

It should be fairly simple for you to find out what Merck paid their medical experts. Find out their names from court records or from newspaper accounts, and check their tax records (should be public record).

#2) The special US court stated that the results of the study on the MMR/autism cited by the defendants (Merck) was medically accepted fact; from what I've read, they made no comment on the fact that the defense pointed out all kinds of flaws with this study, including the fact that children more likely to develop autism (underweight babies, kids with family hx of autism or GI issues or autoimmune issues) were kept out of the study, and also including the fact that one of the researchers from Merck sent an email to another, stating that "you can control the outcome of the study by controlling whom you let into the study."

Somehow, the special court made NO comment on any of the plaintiff's massive evidence, and their only comment on the evidence of the defense was that it was accepted medical fact, and therefore had considerable more weight.

If that convinces you that vaccines are safe, well, feel free to vaccinate yourself! But please don't try to convince us that the special court carries any weight or deals in facts.

#3) No, you are not wrong for caring--BLESS YOU FOR THAT!

But you should care equally about the children who suffer harm from vaccines.

For example, from 1999:

Washington, D.C. – The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) released figures this week which show that the number of hepatitis B vaccine-associated serious adverse event and death reports in American children under the age of 14 outnumber the reported cases of hepatitis B disease in that age group. NVIC is calling the government-mandated hepatitis B vaccination of all children a "dangerous and scientifically unsubstantiated policy." At the same time, a national poll reveals that two thirds of all Americans want the right to make informed, voluntary decisions about vaccination.

Independent analysis of raw computer data generated by the government-operated Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) confirms that in 1996, there were 872 serious adverse events reported to VAERS in children under 14 years of age who had been injected with hepatitis B vaccine. The children were either taken to a hospital emergency room, had life threatening health problems, were hospitalized or were left disabled following vaccination. 214 of the children had received hepatitis B vaccine alone and the rest had received hepatitis B vaccine in combination with other vaccines. 48 children were reported to have died after they were injected with hepatitis B vaccine in 1996 and 13 of them had received hepatitis B vaccine only before their deaths. By contrast, in 1996 only 279 cases of hepatitis B disease were reported in children under age 14.

1997 hepatitis B disease statistics from eight states reinforce the lack of hepatitis B disease in young children, particularly in children under 5 years old. For children under 5 years old, New Hampshire reported 1 case of hepatitis B; Washington state reported 2 cases; Michigan reported 9 cases; and Texas reported 13 cases. Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Illinois reported no hepatitis B cases in children under 5 years old. By contrast, in 1997 there were a total of 106 VAERS reports of hepatitis B vaccine-related serious adverse events and 10 deaths in children under age 5 living in the eight states with 13 of the reported serious adverse events and 2 deaths occurring in children receiving only hepatitis B vaccine.

There were 24,775 hepatitis B vaccine-related adverse events reported to VAERS in all age groups, including 9,673 serious adverse events and 439 deaths between July 1, 1990 and October 31, 1998. Out of this total, 17,497 reports were in individuals who received only hepatitis B vaccine without any other vaccines. 5,983 of the reports were for serious events and there were 146 deaths, which means that 35 percent of reports in all age groups after receipt of hepatitis B vaccine only are for serious events.

During the same time period, there was a total of 2,424 adverse event reports, with 1,209 serious events and 73 deaths in children under age 14 who got hepatitis B vaccine alone without any other vaccines. This means that 52 percent or 1 out of 2 reports for children under age 14, who only receive hepatitis B vaccine, are for serious events.

Yet 10 years later, the hepatitis B series of shots is still considered "mandatory" for all newborns. And we hear NOTHING about vaccine deaths--those are kept out of the news.

If you have not yet read A Shot in The Dark by Barbara Loe Fisher, I strongly suggest you read it. I think portions, maybe even all of it is available on-line for free.
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#45 sbj

 
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Posted 19 February 2009 - 08:23 AM

Jerry, it is a fact that the experts who testify on court cases are vary rarely doing so out of the goodness of their hearts. The investigation takes time, and the court appearance also takes time. These professionals, like all professionals, charge fees for their services. The phrase "billable hours" comes to mind, and it is not just lawyers that it applies to. I have done consulting work, and if I spent six minutes in the shower thinking about the client's problem, that was 0.1 billable hours.

I am making the point that we know for a fact that Wakefield took an extreme amount of money from a group of lawyers looking to make millions upon millions. We do not know for a fact about any amount that any defense experts took. That's why I posed the question - "Do you know the amount any took for a fact?" And we still don't. And you aren't providing any numbers. We do know for a fact that Wakefield took tons of money and we know that the plaintiffs in the US recently lost their case.

I think that if one is going to throw around accusations that attempt to portray the defense witnesses in the same negative light as a doctor who took money in a clear cut case of conflict of interest then it should be incumbent upon one to at least present some evidence. You seem to be implying that the defense witnesses took the same large amount of money as Wakefield or that they have the same clear case of conflict of interest. However, there is absolutely no proof of either. The amount Wakefield was paid was huge - far exceeding standard "billable hours." I seriously doubt that defense experts took anywhere near that amount of money and until someone presents facts to tell me otherwise I will not condemn them. I will not base my opinions on hearsay or conspiracy theories.

There is proof that Wakefield took an inordinantly large sum of money for the work he performed. Just as there is proof that England is in the midst of an avoidable measles epidemic that is threatening the lives of children.
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