Candida Overgrowth

[Rachel--24]

So if we don't have Celiac (I don't - no intestinal villi damage) then what are we to think of a candida infection?

Personally, I dont think it makes a difference as to whether a person has Celiac or not. A candida infection is problematic either way.

I'm going back to the study that Veggienft brings up in her post. This study has found that gluten and candida albicans share the same protein sequence...suggesting the possibility that the immune system can confuse one for the other.

If thats the case (and I believe that its very possible) then if someone continues to have problems with candida overgrowth the immune system will continue to attack the yeast as if it were gluten and this would result in villi damage (according to the article). Clearly this can be identified in bloodtests as well as biopsy and if a person is 100% gluten-free there is a possibility that candida is causing the villi to remain under attack.

If there is NO villi damage to the person with Celiac Disease and candida...then I do not see how this can be a possibility. There is no evidence at this point that this actually occurs as no studies have been done to find out.

In my mind it really does not matter because either way if a person has candida overgrowth which has attached itself to the intestinal lining and is not easily controlled....then it is there for a reason. The immune system is unable to get it under control because *something* is allowing it to keep a strong foothold.....the environment is favorable for the yeast.

If the theory is correct then this would certainly not be a good thing for the person who has Celiac IF their immune system is still launching an attack the same way it would if gluten were being consumed. Obviously they would continue to have damage to their villi.

However, nothing about this changes the fact that the candida is still a problem and that it should NOT be invading the intestines under normal circumstances and in a body that is properly balanced. The conditions in the body have to be favorable for the yeast in order for it to continue to thrive. So whether or not the person has Celiac makes no difference....they still clearly have an underlying issue if the immune system is unable to control the yeast.

Just because a person has Celiac does not mean that its not possible for them to have other issues as well.

Veggienft had stated that people with this problem would need to be treating candida for life. I do not know why that would be the case because if the candida were treated successfully there would no longer be a reason for the immune system to attack it. If its no longer attaching itself to the intestinal lining....the immune system would no longer see it as a threat.

So whether or not the possibility of the immune system confusing candida and gluten is true....I still think its very important to determine *why* the candida is overgrowing in the first place. Resolving that would clearly be the best outcome in either case.

[AliB]

If you take autism as an example....these kids have not been alive long enough to have had damage done from eating the wrong foods for their body type...and yet they have the same underlying issues as many of the adults living with conditions such as CFS, MCS, Fibromyalgia, etc. It seems very unlikely that diet is to blame and more likely that they are reaching their body's threshold for toxins very early in life. This has absolutley nothing to do with diet and ALOT to do with a large number of vaccinations in too short a time span and a genetic predisposition which prevents them from detoxing as well as other kids.

I beg to differ - I believe that certain types of Autism can be triggered by gluten and/or dairy sensitivity. So little is known about what gluten does to the body. Some children will develop what are considered to be 'obvious' symptoms - growth retardation for instance. But that will depend on a) the genetic weakness of the individual and b.) what form the malabsorption causes.

Some Autistic children have obvious bowel disorders. Good success has been achieved by putting these children on to a gluten and dairy-free diet, but we know that some people suffer with 'silent Celiac' so the absence of 'obvious' symptoms cannot rule out gluten and/or dairy being the trigger.

Whilst a link with things like MMR has not been established, I am convinced that although it may not be the vaccinations themselves that is causing the Autism, the trauma to the body and ultimately immune system by the overload of exposure to several viri concurrently is a likely trigger for Celiac Disease, or at the very least, severe gluten-intolerance to rear it's ugly head and cause enough damage to the gut for malabsorption to trigger an Autistic response.

One of my grandsons used to get a lot of colic as a baby. I am convinced it was the formula that was affecting him. He has not presented with Autism, but has other health issues. The other grandson has learning delay and ASD - he is addicted to gluten and had the MMR at the age of 18 months. At the last exposure he was given no less than 7 (yes, seven) vaccinations at the same time! At the age of 4, he seems better able to deal with them, but what if the first batch triggered Celiac or GI and consequently his ASD?

I am sure that these very young children may well have been exposed to some chemical influence, but it will be quite low at that stage. When they have grown bigger and may well be given foods with chemical content, like fizzy drinks, etc., then yes, maybe, but Autism starts to manifest at a very young age - 2 years or younger and the most likely triggers have to be food based.

Celiac in Adults is often triggered by a trauma - surgery, drugs, illness, accident, emotion, etc. Adults bodies are fully formed so the presentation of Celiac is usually in some physical form. Children however, are still in a very vulnerable position both physically and mentally. It is perfectly possible for celiac trigger in children to present as a brain abnormality. We are aware of how the gliadin can create brain-fog and a disruption to concentration in Adults. Surely a disruption to the neural path formation in children can be way more than possible?

It would seem pretty logical then that as soon as any Autistic tendency is detected it would be prudent to get the child off gluten and/or dairy to limit the damage and enable the child to recover. Unfortunately though it is either not linked at all or way too late to effect recovery.

There was a story in the paper recently about a 12 year-old girl with terrible bone deformities. She only weighs 35lbs! She has seen 130 doctors in her life and none of them knows what is wrong with her. I found her Mothers' email address and contacted her. Celiac has NEVER been mentioned, or as far as they know even considered! For goodness sake. With any failure to thrive in a child it has to be one of the first things to be considered. But guess what. She does not present with any stomach or bowel problems. Am I surprised it has been missed??? Makes you wonder what planet these doctors are on................

[AliB]

With this Metabolic Typing Diet that I have started, what is interesting is that as a Protein 'type', my body does not cope with either carbs in general or sugar. As these foods are recognised to feed Candida it may be that all who are suffering with Candida are also, like me, those who have been eating the wrong foods according to their genetic make-up. I am riddled with Candida because I have been eating food that my body is not designed to cope with.

This is not about eating an Anti-Candida diet, it is about restricting foods to those our particular metabolism can cope with. Some have an acid 'soil', some have an alkaline 'soil'. Some have a metabolism that can cope with a 'mixed' diet and I suspect that whilst some of them may also sometimes be eating further in one direction or another than they should be, in general they are far less likely to suffer either with Candida, or too much in the way of health problems in general and that most problems fall to those of us who sit at the extreme ends of the scale, simply because we are more likely to be eating the 'wrong' foods for our 'type'.

This is a very interesting concept and one that makes an awful lot of sense to me.

[Rachel--24]

Whilst a link with things like MMR has not been established, I am convinced that although it may not be the vaccinations themselves that is causing the Autism, the trauma to the body and ultimately immune system by the overload of exposure to several viri concurrently is a likely trigger for Celiac Disease, or at the very least, severe gluten-intolerance to rear it's ugly head and cause enough damage to the gut for malabsorption to trigger an Autistic response.

There are alot of different theories as to what might cause Autism....I think what IS known at this point is that its mulitfactorial and there is not just one trigger involved.

I tend to be most interested in what the Dr.'s have to say because they are the ones who are actually testing these kids, treating these kids, finding out what works and what doesnt work and they are also making BIG GAINS as far as getting these kids off of the spectrum and into the mainstream. I am VERY impressed with their knowledge, dedication and the positive results they are having in treating the autistic children.

I am also very blessed to have a couple of these Dr.'s treating me. My issues are actually not all that different from the kids they treat so I feel as if I'm in good hands...I know that they have alot of experience. These are well known Dr.'s who are very involved in all of the latest research and treatments regarding Autism.

I enjoy asking questions and learning what I can from them at every opportunity. I'm very involved in my own recovery process but also just as interested in what they learn as far as treating autism and other related disorders.

Each Dr. has told me the same thing with regards to their findings while treating these kids. The #1 factor is damage from the vaccinations. Heavy metals are the rule and not the exception....they are found to be a problem in nearly EVERY child. Viruses also are present in the majority of these children...the immune system is challenged by the heavy load of toxins (mercury) and unable to deal with the viruses in an appropriate manner.

All of these kids have gut issues as a result....this is secondary to the things I just mentioned. They have food intolerances, leaky gut, some have yeast issues, some have bacteria infections such as Lyme, some have parasites.

They ALL have difficulties with detoxification, they have nutritional imbalances (minerals are not in balance), they have disturbed metabolic processes such as blocked enzymes and blocked detoxification pathways.

These are the things that they find going in EVERY child.

The Dr.'s do stress the importance of dietary changes...especially the removal of gluten and dairy and

for some kids sugar and high phenolic foods also need to be eliminated. However, the treatment does not stop with dietary changes...this is only a first step and an important one in reducing inflammation, taking a burden off of the immune system, helping to control yeast and other infections as well as helping the child to function better....particularly with cognitive problems.

This alone can reduce alot of the symptoms but in the vast majority of kids with autism detoxification is the primary focus of treatment. Ultimately, thats what it takes to get these kids off of the spectrum WITHOUT having to stick to life-long restrictive diets. The diet can reduce symptoms but it cannot resolve the underlying issues in these kids.

This is some of what I've learned from the Dr.'s who spend their days working with these kids and doing everything they can to get them better.

[veggienft]

Again, never once did I mention anything in my posts about Celiac and its relationship to candida.

Look around. You're posting on a celiac board. The person asking about the prognosis for candidiasis, yes, presumably has celiac. Why else would he/she be here? You gave advice which would harm the probably-thousands of people who like me probably have celiac via candidiasis ......when you said:

Yeast doesnt overgrow w/out cause. If it persists there is a reason that its happening....something is allowing for it to thrive (something other than sugar). Obviously sugar fuels it but the overgrowth itself is a symptom that something is not right within the body.

The diet should not be life-long....and under normal circumstances yeast should not be difficult to treat. Its part of the intestinal environment....it belongs there. If it has a strong foothold and is difficult to keep under control....its because there's an underlying issue which is making that possible.

Personally, I have not seen people recover from chronic yeast without addressing the underlying cause. The diet can "manage" it....but I do not believe that its a "cure".

The "something" wrong with the candidiasis patient's body CAN be celiac.

You're trying to cover the potential harm of your inappropriate advice on many candidiasis sufferers by taking opposite sides of many issues.

I posted evidence showing that the peptides on the surfaces of gluten and candida make both appear the same to the body's immune system. You're trying to discredit that information as "unproven" while trying to take credit for it. So to demonstrate unproven advice, you told us that the rising rate of autism is the result of mercury in infant inoculations ...........a practice which ended years ago, before the rising autism rate you cited.

Zonulin IS proven as the enabler of membrane permeability, and zonulin is activated, through not-completely-identified intervening steps, by gliadin peptides .........the same peptides presented by candida albicans yeast.

For readers, I've discussed the cause of the rise of autism with "researchers" who share Rachael's position, people whom I know far more about. For those people, an identical agenda is evident in their stands on several issues .........the demonization of western industrialization. In autism their argument wraps that flag around heavy metals.

Nobody has "proven" what causes autism, but gliadin's proven exploitation of neuron endorphin receptors makes a lot of sense. The gluten peptides in autism kids' spinal fluid are a far more likely cause of most autism than the anecdotal studies using mercury to cause autism-like symptoms in lab rats. In healthy people gluten is not allowed through three membrane barriers into the spinal fluid.

I do not mind debating or having discussions which are productive...however, I do not wish to be attacked. You do not have to agree with my posts but you do need to have respect for me as well as for other members of this board.

You have made more than one false statement regarding my beliefs and also my motives for posting here. Those kind of attacks are not welcome on this board.

No you are falsely characterizing my disagreement with your medical advice as a personal attack. It wasn't, but I promise that now it will be. I have no respect for people who lie.

You're trying to speak for the mods and everyone on "this board" in making this attack. I'm new here, and have no way of telling if you have the power of a mod. I doubt it. But if the mods actually support you in your attack, then believe me. I wanna be banned.

..

[Rachel--24]

Look around. You're posting on a celiac board. The person asking about the prognosis for candidiasis, yes, presumably has celiac. Why else would he/she be here? You gave advice which would harm the probably-thousands of people who like me probably have celiac via candidiasis ......when you said:

Actually, having spent nearly 3 years on this board I feel that I can acurately say that the majority of the posters here who are dealing with chronic candida are non-celiac. I dont presume anything about a persons health...I simply pass on what I've learned. I share my experience with those who are interested. If you are uninterested thats perfectly fine....but it does not give you the right to launch a personal attack.

MANY people who come to this board do so because they are looking for answers. It is not a requirement that one MUST have a diagnosis of Celiac Disease to post here. There are all sorts of people posting here....but the one thing those who post in the leaky gut forum have in common is food intolerances...IN ADDITION to gluten intolerance/Celiac.

The "something" wrong with the candidiasis patient's body CAN be celiac.

You're right...it can be Celiac. However when the Celiac is treated with the removal of gluten from the diet...the immune system should no longer be under stress and the yeast issue is easily treated....unless of course there are additional stressors involved.

There ARE posters here who have experienced candida as a result of Celiac and the yeast issues cleared up once they removed the source of the problem....which was gluten.

I'm speaking to those who have chronic candida which DID NOT clear up while following the strictest of diets. Those people have not yet identified the stressors which are still allowing the yaest to flourish.

You're trying to cover the potential harm of your inappropriate advice on many candidiasis sufferers by taking opposite sides of many issues.

I posted evidence showing that the peptides on the surfaces of gluten and candida make both appear the same to the body's immune system. You're trying to discredit that information as "unproven" while trying to take credit for it.

I do not take opposite sides on anything I've posted. I stated that I DO believe that there is some validity to the study linking candida to the onset of Celiac. However, at the same time I DO acknowledge that this is only theory.

I think its irresponsible to state something as fact instead of what it actually is. Its a fascinating theory which in my opinion warrants furthur investigation....but it is NOT fact....which is the way you presented it.

I'm not trying to discredit it as "unproven"...it truelly IS unproven. If I was uninterested I dont think I would have put as much effort into posting about it....but I did discuss it in great length over a year ago and many times since.

So to demonstrate unproven advice, you told us that the rising rate of autism is the result of mercury in infant inoculations ...........a practice which ended years ago, before the rising autism rate you cited.

Actaully I stated that Autism is multifactorial and many triggers are involved. Vaccinations contain harmful ingredients which are stressful to the immune system...mercury is one of them....but even WITHOUT mercury the vaccinations can be very harmful in the amounts that are given today.

Also the practice of using thimerosal in vaccinations has not ended....it still continues to this very day...if you had researched the subject or spoke with Dr.'s about this you would be aware of that.

Mercury is still present in some vaccinations and it is still included in the flu shot and it is recommended that every child recieve the flu shot once a year. So yes....there is still plenty of exposure to mercury and for those who are unable to detox it efficiently it is very harmful....even in small amounts. This is aside from the fact that the fetus is exposed to large amounts of mercury when the mother has amalgam fillings. This has been proven. The amount of mercury in an infant correlates to the amount of fillings in the mother's mouth.....not to mention that large amounts are also excreted in breast milk.

Trust me....kids are still exposed to PLENTY of mercury. You can research this subject and find out for yourself.

For readers, I've discussed the cause of the rise of autism with "researchers" who share Rachael's position, people whom I know far more about. For those people, an identical agenda is evident in their stands on several issues .........the demonization of western industrialization. In autism their argument wraps that flag around heavy metals.

I'm truelly not interested in demonizing western medicine or secret "agendas". What DOES interest me is seeing these kids get BETTER. I am very excited by that....it brings me more joy than you can imagine. Maybe because I'm sharing some of the same struggles and maybe because I'm on the same road....but honestly what matters to me most is RESULTS.

So having said that....if the work my Dr.'s are doing is producing RESULTS...I am interested in all of it....every little detail. They can wrap their flag around heavy metals all they want because at the end of the day all that matters is that kids are getting better. I could care less about all the rest and I wont argue about it here or anywhere else.

I dont have a personal agenda. My only concern is restoring my health and when that process is complete I have every intention of taking all that I've learned through my own experience and doing what I can to help others. If I ever have the opportunity to help these kids in the same way that my Dr.'s are doing now.....it would be most rewarding.

Nobody has "proven" what causes autism, but gliadin's proven exploitation of neuron endorphin receptors makes a lot of sense. The gluten peptides in autism kids' spinal fluid are a far more likely cause of most autism than the anecdotal studies using mercury to cause autism-like symptoms in lab rats. In healthy people gluten is not allowed through three membrane barriers into the spinal fluid.

You're right...at this point noone has PROVEN any single cause for autism. Its VERY unlikely that that day will ever come because there is no ONE single cause.....there are many environmental triggers. Vaccinations (in large amounts) are huge stressors to the immune system and the child has difficulties handling toxins once they've been pushed too far. These are children who are still in the critical early stages of development. Pumping large amounts of known neurotoxins (there are others aside from mercury) into young babies who do not yet have fully developed immune systems is certainly going to have its consequences.

No you are falsely characterizing my disagreement with your medical advice as a personal attack. It wasn't, but I promise that now it will be. I have no respect for people who lie.

Your words...

So we're looking at some other motivation besides fact for your insistence on western chemicals as a cause for autoimmune disease. You can blame your friends, neighbors and ancestors all you want, but they saved you to live long enough to complain about them.

Gratitude? Self reliance? ......Hardly. Name words which represent the opposite of gratitude and self reliance. Those are the words which describe your motive.

This is what I percieve to be a personal attack on my character...and they are also words which have no merit....since I do not believe that anyone on this board would consider me to be a complainer...or someone wanting to place blame on others for my misfortune.

In fact I've stated many times that I feel as if this illness was a blessing in disguise and it has changed the direction of my life....for the better. Everything happens for a reason.

Name calling and personal attacks are not tolerated here. I am not known to be a liar and I'm sorry if you feel that way.....however, it is not acceptable to throw those kinds of words around at board members....its a violation of board rule #1.

You're trying to speak for the mods and everyone on "this board" in making this attack. I'm new here, and have no way of telling if you have the power of a mod. I doubt it. But if the mods actually support you in your attack, then believe me. I wanna be banned.

I am a moderator of this board and yes I am speaking for myself and for the other members when I say that personal attacks are not tolerated here.

Its ok to have a difference of opinion and its ok to discuss each side...its NOT ok to attack any board member simply because you do not agree. Please keep that in mind when you post.

[Rachel--24]

So to demonstrate unproven advice, you told us that the rising rate of autism is the result of mercury in infant inoculations ...........a practice which ended years ago, before the rising autism rate you cited.

Here is some information regarding mercury content in vaccines today.

Are ALL Vaccines Now Mercury-Free?

NO! They

[veggienft]

Name calling and personal attacks are not tolerated here. I am not known to be a liar and I'm sorry if you feel that way.....however, it is not acceptable to throw those kinds of words around at board members....its a violation of board rule #1.

I am a moderator of this board and yes I am speaking for myself and for the other members when I say that personal attacks are not tolerated here.

Its ok to have a difference of opinion and its ok to discuss each side...its NOT ok to attack any board member simply because you do not agree. Please keep that in mind when you post.

Imagine .........a mod who attacks people who

I called your advice telling candidiasis sufferers to drop their sugar-free diets "inappropriate" and showed the reason why. For that you called me "irresponsible".

You called my characterization of your, what was YES, bad medical advice an "attack".

You blamed both candidiasis and autism on metal byproducts of western civilization, then objected when I said you were blaming your friends, neighbors and ancestors.

Because of your untruthful attack on me, I said "I have no respect for people who lie." And you characterized this as "name calling" and "personal attacks".

And you did these things as an official representative of our host. Why a celiac site would place a person who places kook fringe heavy metal causality above solid CELIAC evidence is beyond me.

That ANY site would place someone like you in a position of authority is flabbergasting.

..

[Rachel--24]

I called your advice telling candidiasis sufferers to drop their sugar-free diets "inappropriate" and showed the reason why. For that you called me "irresponsible".

I never told anyone to drop their sugar free diet. Obviously you are not following my posts.

For the most part I have been on the diet myself for over 3 years now. I do cheat but I do not go over board. My candida antibodies which were once off the charts have dropped significantly over the past year....with treatment.

I am quite positive that I posted more than once that the diet is an important part of recovery....however it is not usually the "cure". Candida tends to come back once the diet is abandoned in those individuals who have not identified and treated the underlying cause.

So yes....until the body is back in balance and until the immune system is fully capable of keeping candida in check all on its own I strongly recommend remaining on the anti-candida diet. In case that wasnt clear the first few times I stated it.

Why a celiac site would place a person who places kook fringe heavy metal causality above solid CELIAC evidence is beyond me.

That ANY site would place someone like you in a position of authority is flabbergasting.

Again, I find these remarks offensive and unproductive.

I do not know what solid Celiac evidence you are speaking of so I cannot comment on that. If you are referring to the study linking candida and celiac....that is not solid scientific evidence....its theory....and as I stated....its an interesting theory that I hope will be furthur investigated at some point.

The fact that heavy metals are harmful to the immune system is not some "kooky" idea that I have made up. There is solid scientific evidence to support that. It is not a theory that mercury is the second most toxic element on this planet and it is not a theory that it is harmful to humans. There have been NUMEROUS studies on the toxicity of mercury....and its well known to be extremely toxic to humans.

[AndreaB]

Look around. You're posting on a celiac board. The person asking about the prognosis for candidiasis, yes, presumably has celiac. Why else would he/she be here? You gave advice which would harm the probably-thousands of people who like me probably have celiac via candidiasis ......when you said:

Nowhere on the board rules does it say you have to have celiac to post on this forum. Many here do not have diagnosed celiac but do have gluten intolerance, no matter the cause of the intolerance.

Rachel has not said anything that would put a celiac in danger. She's not telling them to go back onto gluten, just that if chronic candida still persists on the gluten free diet that something else may very well be causing an inbalance in the body.

[Ursa Major]

No you are falsely characterizing my disagreement with your medical advice as a personal attack. It wasn't, but I promise that now it will be. I have no respect for people who lie.

You're trying to speak for the mods and everyone on "this board" in making this attack. I'm new here, and have no way of telling if you have the power of a mod. I doubt it. But if the mods actually support you in your attack, then believe me. I wanna be banned.

You are saying that you are now purposely going to attack Rachel. If I find you following up on that promise, I can promise you that I will make sure you will be banned from this board, as that is not tolerated here.

Rachel wasn't attacking you or anybody else. I just read through the entire thread to find where she attacked you, and the only attack I could find was coming from you towards Rachel.

And yes, Rachel is one of our very valuable moderators, and has been for quite a while. I am another moderator, and yes, I support Rachel wholeheartedly (without always agreeing with her opinions). And I can assure you that I won't be the only moderator who will support Rachel and defend her from unwarranted attacks.

You are new here. We know nothing about you. At this point, I think it is possible that you are actually a troll, coming here only with the purpose of causing trouble.

It would be nice if you could prove otherwise. You will be watched closely from here on in by me, and I am sure, others.

If you are capable of arguing your point in a civil manner (even if you disagree with Rachel, as there is no rule against people having their own opinions, in fact, differing opinions are good, so we can make up our own minds and add our own research) then you are welcome here. But if you resort to personal attacks and name calling to get your point across then you are not.

I believe that since your insults were done in a public forum, it would be appropriate to get a public apology also.

[jerseyangel]

And yes, Rachel is one of our very valuable moderators, and has been for quite a while. I am another moderator, and yes, I support Rachel wholeheartedly (without always agreeing with her opinions). And I can assure you that I won't be the only moderator who will support Rachel and defend her from unwarranted attacks.

How right you are, Ursa.

All opinions are welcome, and feel free to disagree (some of the most interesting discussions come out of it)--but personal attacks are against board rules and will not be tolerated.

[OBXMom]

I believe that since your insults were done in a public forum, it would be appropriate to get a public apology also.

O.K., I can't stand it anymore, I keep waiting for the apology which doesn't seem to be coming, so . . .

Rachel, I don't know you, but I have definitely benefited from your expertise on these boards, so I would like to say that I am very sorry you were addressed as you were in this thread. Since I also don't know the other individual involved, I am going to assume that s/he is going through a rough time, and inadvertently took it out on you. Thank you for your positive outlook and I am sorry that in this instance you received negativity in return.

[Rachel--24]

O.K., I can't stand it anymore, I keep waiting for the apology which doesn't seem to be coming, so . . .

Rachel, I don't know you, but I have definitely benefited from your expertise on these boards, so I would like to say that I am very sorry you were addressed as you were in this thread. Since I also don't know the other individual involved, I am going to assume that s/he is going through a rough time, and inadvertently took it out on you. Thank you for your positive outlook and I am sorry that in this instance you received negativity in return.

Thanks for you kind words OBXMom.

Honestly, I dont expect an apology...nor do I need one. I'd just rather continue on with things and move forward. Its not the first time and it wont be the last....I try not to take things too personally.

Thanks again and I'm glad that you have found the posts to be helpful.