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Antibiotics


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#1 Ken70

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:50 AM

If taking antibiotics kills the "good" bacteria doesn't it also kill the candida? If it does kill both then is the problem with antibiotics that the bad repopulate more easily than the good or am I missing something?
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#2 Mom23boys

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:22 AM

If taking antibiotics kills the "good" bacteria doesn't it also kill the candida? If it does kill both then is the problem with antibiotics that the bad repopulate more easily than the good or am I missing something?


Antibiotics do kill both good and bad. The "standard" diet encourages the faster growth of bad bacteria. We basically feed the bad with the sugar and carbs.
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#3 Ken70

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 08:10 AM

Antibiotics do kill both good and bad. The "standard" diet encourages the faster growth of bad bacteria. We basically feed the bad with the sugar and carbs.


So when I read about someone doing well on their anti-fungal diet that now has to take antibiotics for some reason it's not necessarily a problem unless you change your diet back to sugary foods and or don't encourage the re-population of good bacteria, is this correct?
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#4 tarnalberry

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:22 PM

candida is a yeast, so antibiotics (which kills bacteria) do not affect it. by killing the good bacteria in the intestines (along with the bad bacteria elsewhere in the body), there is more 'floor space' or 'real estate' for the yeast to grow. when the antibiotics are stopped, there's essentially a race to populate the space available, and the bad bacteria (and yeast and fungus and anything else) can win the race just as the good can. that's why it's often suggested to 'tip the scale' in favor of the good bacteria by taking probiotics.
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#5 Ken70

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 03:52 AM

candida is a yeast, so antibiotics (which kills bacteria) do not affect it. by killing the good bacteria in the intestines (along with the bad bacteria elsewhere in the body), there is more 'floor space' or 'real estate' for the yeast to grow. when the antibiotics are stopped, there's essentially a race to populate the space available, and the bad bacteria (and yeast and fungus and anything else) can win the race just as the good can. that's why it's often suggested to 'tip the scale' in favor of the good bacteria by taking probiotics.



I think the antibiotics kill the yeast too don't they?

The real reason I ask this is because I think the chlorine in the Y pool I swim at does the same thing. I swallow enough of it over an hour and a half that I think it kills some or all of my gut flora and fauna. I started swimming again last Sunday. Until then my BM's have been perfect and my intestines have not felt inflamed at all. Last night and this morning I fell like the candida is back in control down there. My BM's are super thin as though my intestinal tract has a much much smaller diameter leading me to believe they are inflamed. I also fel my intestines.

I've been a swimmer my whole life and I think this may have contributed to poor intestinal health all of these years. I really don't want to quit swimming again so I am hoping that probiotics and the right diet will overcome this. Any thoughts?
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#6 covsooze

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 09:27 AM

Hmm, interesting question Ken. Antibiotics are not the same thing as chlorine, but I do wonder as to its effect myself, as my stomach feels dodgy after swimming.

Antibiotics posing another question. I've been on the anti-candida regime for just over a month, and last week got a nasty UTI which needed antibiotics. I've been taking more probiotics, but have felt too rough, both from the infection and the abx, to take my antifungals - haven't wanted to add die-off to my woes!! I've only got 2 days left of the abx and am starting to feel a bit better. Is it OK to go back on the antifungals is what I'd like to know?? Am I likely to have a massive die-off? Will the antifungals help protect against the post-abx free for all repopulatation of my guts?

Susie
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#7 Rachel--24

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 10:05 AM

Antibiotics dont kill yeast....instead they allow for yeast to flourish by killing off good bacteria. If good bacteria is killed off more room is available for yeast to grow as it is no longer kept in-check by beneficial bacteria....as Tiffany previously stated.

Any pathogen not affected by antibiotics can take advantage. Yeast is already present in a healthy intestinal environment (and it does have its purpose)....it only becomes pathogenic if allowed to overgrow.

Regarding chlorine....its a toxic chemical and any toxic chemical can be harmful to the body. It can also suppress the immune system. Anything which suppresses the immune system can allow yeast to overgrow.

Both chlorine and fluoride inhibit the stomach's ability to produce HCl, and impair the ability of beneficial flora to grow in the gut.


I use a shower filter to remove chlorine and a bath ball to remove chlorine from the bath.

Chlorine can also block sulfation...essentially blocking detoxification. Anything that interferes with the body's ability to detoxify leads to a burdened liver (as toxins accumulate in the body) and of course...a suppressed immune system as a result.

If the sulfation pathway is already weak and detoxification already impaired....chlorine exposure can make the situation worse.

I know for some autistic kids swimming can cause regression due to the exposure to chlorine. I've read that epsom salt baths immediately after swimming can eliminate this problem since sulfates absorbed in the bath help the body to detoxify.
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#8 Rachel--24

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 10:13 AM

Some info about the dangers of chlorine...


"Cancer risks among people drinking chlorinated water is 93% higher than among those whose water does not contain chlorine." -- Dr. J.M. Price MD

NEW SCIENTIST 18 September 1986 - Ian Anderson
"Studies indicates the suspect to chemicals can also be inhaled and absorbed through the skin during showering and bathing." "Ironically, even the chlorine widely used to disinfect water produces Carcinogenic traces." "Though 7 out of 10 Americans drink chlorinated water, its safety over long term is uncertain." "Drinking chlorinated water may as much as double the risk of Bladder Cancer, which strikes 40,000 people a year."

U.S. NEWS &WORLD REPORT - July 29 1991
Is Your Water Safe--The Dangerous State of Your Water
"A long hot shower can be dangerous. The toxic chemicals are inhaled in high concentrations."

CHLORINE AND YOUR SHOWER - Bruce Black
"Taking long hot showers is a health risk, according to research presented last week in Anaheim California, at a meeting of the American Chemical Society--and to a lesser extent baths--lead to a greater exposure to toxic chemicals contained in water supplies than does drinking the water. The chemicals evaporate out of the water and are inhaled. They can also spread through the house and be inhaled by others. House holders can receive 6 to 100 times more of the chemical by breathing the air around showers and bath than they would by drinking the water"

BOTTOM LINE/August 87 - Dr. John Andelman, Ph.D..
"On one hand, chlorination has freed civilization form the constant dangers of waterborne epidemics. On the other hand in the mid--70's scientists discovered that chlorination could create carcinogens in water." "80% of the population drinks chlorinated water." "There was a higher incidence of cancer of the esophagus, rectum, breast, and larynx and of Hodgkin's Disease among those drinking chlorinated surface waters." "Volatile organics can evaporate from water in a shower or bath." "Conservative calculations indicate that inhalation exposure can be as significant as exposure from drinking the water, that is, one can be exposed to just as much by inhalation and/or dermal absorption."

IS YOUR WATER SAFE TO DRINK? - Consumer Reports Books
"Skin absorption of contaminant has been underestimated and ingestion may not constitute the sole or even primary route of exposure.

AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH - Dr.Halina Brown
"Showering is suspected as the primary cause of elevated levels of chloroform in nearly every home because of the chlorine in the water."

ENVIROMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY - Dr. Lance Wallace
"A Professor of Water Chemistry at the University of Pittsburgh claims that exposure to vaporized chemicals in the water supplies through showering, bathing, and inhalation is 100 times greater than through drinking water." "As chlorine is added to kill pathogenic microorganisms, the highly reactive chlorine combines with fatty acids and carbon fragments to form a variety of toxic compounds, which comprise about 30% of the chlorination by--products." "During the mid-1970's monitoring efforts began to identify widespread toxic contamination of the nation's drinking water supplies, epidemiological studies began to suggest a link between ingestion of toxic chemicals in the water and elevated cancer mortality risks. Since those studies were completed a variety of additional studies have strengthened the statistical connection between consumption of toxins in water and elevated cancer risks. Moreover, this basic concern has been heightened by other research discoveries.

THE NADER REPORT - TROUBLED WATERS ON TAP
- Center For Study of Responsive Law "The National Academy of Science estimate that 200 to 1000 people die in the United States each year from cancers caused by ingesting the contaminants in the water. The major health threat posed by these pollutants is far more likely to be from their inhalations as air pollutants. The reason that emissions are high is that because water droplets dispersed by the shower head have a larger surface--to--value ratio than water streaming into the bath."

SCIENCE NEWS, VOL. 130 - Janet Raloff
"The cause of atherosclerosis and resulting heart attacks and strokes is none other than the ubiquitous chlorine in our drinking water."

CHEMISTRY AND CONTROL OF MODERN CHLORINATION - Dr. A.T. Palin, Ph.D..(O.B.E.)
"Chlorine gas was despicably used during WWI. When the war was over, the use of chlorine was diverted to poisoning germs in our drinking water. All water supplies throughout the country were chlorinated. The combination of chlorine (when in drinking water) and animal fats results in atherosclerosis, heart attacks, and death."

WATER CAN UNDERMINE YOUR HEALTH - Dr. N.W. Walker, D.S.
"Chlorine is the greatest cripple and killer of the modern times. While it prevented epidemics of one disease, it was creating another. Two decades ago, after the start of chlorinating our drinking water in 1904. The present epidemic of the heart trouble, cancer and senility began."

U.S. COUNCIL OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY
"Drinking tap water that is chlorinated is hazardous, if not deadly to your health."

HEALTHY WATER FOR A LONGER LIFE - Dr. Martin Fox
"Known carcinogens are found in drinking water as a direct consequences of the practice of chlorination. A long established public health practice for the disinfection of drinking water."
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Rachel

#9 Ken70

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:49 PM

Some info about the dangers of chlorine...


You are like a knowledge machine. Better than google.

My water is from a well and is filtered a number of times so no chlorine or flouride for that matter. The YMCA has added UV to reduce the amount of chlorine but it is still high. Are there studies about pool water or just municipal drinking water.

I would like some more info on how or why the yeast is able to survive the antibiotics or in my case the chlorine. I know the two are not the same thing but I'm thinking they may have similar results for me. Any web sites or studies on this would be great. I could google it I guess but we've got Rachel so why bother :D
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#10 Rachel--24

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 01:28 PM

I would like some more info on how or why the yeast is able to survive the antibiotics or in my case the chlorine. I know the two are not the same thing but I'm thinking they may have similar results for me. Any web sites or studies on this would be great. I could google it I guess but we've got Rachel so why bother :D


I dont know of any studies offhand but yeast will survive antibiotics because they are not targeted by antibiotics. Yeast are fungal and will only be killed off by medications or herbs which have antifungal properties. Antibiotics are not antifungal....thus they will promote a yeast overgrowth as bacteria is killed off.

I havent spent much time looking into chlorine...I just try to avoid it since I have poor detoxification and dont tolerate chemicals.

I'm guessing that chlorine might have antibacterial properties but little effect on yeast. Also, yeast thrive in a toxic environment. Candida for example, is highly opportunistic....anytime that the normal gut flora is altered or the immune system is weakened by other conditions in the body...yeast can gain the upper-hand.

If the normal balance of good/bad bacteria in the gut is disturbed so that the scales are tipped in the direction of poor health....yeast and other pathogens will have more room to play.

A round of antibiotics does not target every organism living in the gut. It will not target yeast and depending on the antibiotic it may have no effect on some unfriendly bacteria....such as C. Difficile. C. Diff is nasty when it overgrows and like yeast it is opportunistic. There are only a few antibiotics available that are used to target C. Diff specifically. That means that if the immune system is weak and a person is taking antibiotics they can be vulnerable to an overgrowth of C. Diff as well as yeast.

The majority of a persons immune system is in the digestive tract....so if that environment is altered and pathogens like yeast gain the upper hand....the immune system is furthur challenged. The more stresses the immune system is faced with the more it is unable to fight things we are commonly exposed to....such as parasites.

I'm not someone who believes that any of this can take place in a healthy body. I strongly believe that when yeast overgrowth becomes a chronic condition in the body there are underlying conditions allowing for that to happen. Antibiotics can certainly make the situation much worse (as it did for me) but a strong and healthy immune system does not allow yeast to wreak havoc.

P.S.
Google is my BEST friend!! :D
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Rachel

#11 Ken70

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:20 AM

P.S.
Google is my BEST friend!! :D


Thanks for the reply. I swam yesterday and although I had some light stomach pain I was OK. I spent 20 minutes in the sauna right after swimming and I took an Epsom Salt bath later in the day. I definitely had a regrowth of candida last week but I was able to starve it and get rid of it.

I have an appointment with a woman and a garden hose tomorrow. This will be my first. Wish me luck.....
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