[bakingbarb]

I may have an opportunity in front of me. Too soon to know for sure but I need to be prepared just in case.
If I were able to open a cafe in the near future......
I have no idea what flour blend I should use or who would have flour blends at wholesale. Or what a reasonable price is. Or should I just blend my own!!!!

[Ridgewalker]

Hi Barb,

I'd recommend making your own flour blends, for two reasons:

1) It's almost always cheaper.

2) You probably like different blends for different recipes/products.

For example, I like a little bean flour in the blend for chocolate chip cookies, but absolutely HATE it for sandwich bread. I like sorghum flour in the blend for yeast breads, but not so much for pound cakes... etc.

It would take more time/labor of course, to make your own blends, but in my mind it would make more sense for a better product...

Curious, what types of food would you be offering at the cafe? I know you do a ton of baking... would it be mostly baked goods, or would you have things like sandwiches and pasta?

[bakingbarb]

Sarah, thank you for answering. I too was thinking making my own blend. I pretty much use a blend for everything but add other flours in depending on what I am making. I am very much liking the coconut flour but all of this can be so spendy, that part worries me. I did see Bob's Red Mill does wholesale but I don't know how much you have to buy to be wholesale. (need to find this out)
Oh and the bean flour I have only used in a Bob's mix and I forgot and licked the bowl. UGH UGH UGH I don't know what i would or would not like it in. Why do you prefer them the way you do?
I wasn't thinking foods yet, just baked goods. I read somewhere that a problem with new cafés is they start out skimpy on the baked good. Well I can see why. How do you know what will and won't fly?
Oh jeez so many things running through my head about this.

Ya, at first I was thinking just some basic things that I do well. BUT it will be a coffee shop first and then the food is second. I am assuming that coffee will be the bread and butter and then eventually the food will have a following. I also am not sure how to go about this. Do I tell people up front the foods are gluten free. If they don't know what that means or even if they do, will that turn them away? But I need people that need gluten-free to know so how do I appeal to both?

I would like add in soups eventually and maybe sandwich's because these are not things a Celiac can eat just anywhere. Cream of tomato, clam chowder and so many others just are not safe for us to eat. SIGH

I am not feeling so extremely confident right now in my baking either. I guess it is all of a sudden in front of me that I might actually do this and I don't know. Not all of my gluten-free stuff turns out great. Well that won't fly in a café. Bread I don't do terrible but it isn't my fav thing yet. Blondies I can make, cheesecake is fine. I have an apple cake thats good oh and brownies. But what else. Can a café make it on those items? Oh I know I can bake other stuff but oh man I don't know now.
Can you tell I am getting overwhelmed!!!

I should ask what people want to see in a gluten-free café!

[irish daveyboy]

bakingbarb, on Apr 1 2008, 04:49 AM, said:

I may have an opportunity in front of me. Too soon to know for sure but I need to be prepared just in case.
If I were able to open a cafe in the near future......
I have no idea what flour blend I should use or who would have flour blends at wholesale. Or what a reasonable price is. Or should I just blend my own!!!!

Hi Barbara,
I too at one stage wanted to open a coffee shop selling my own baked bread and cakes
and maybe doing some meals.
.
I had thought about a strictly gluten-free Coffee Shop (great for fellow Celiacs)
but not exactly conducive to making it a viable proposition.
.
Firstly items would sell at higher prices than regular coffee shops,
to recoup costs of only using the best gluten-free ingredients
(appreciated by Celiacs but not by Glunenoids) .
.
I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but I decided against it after due consideration.
.
1.You need to bake all night for fresh product the next day .
2. You personally need to work the shop all day to make sure it's running ok!
3. Family time goes out the window for a long time maybe years till you can afford to employ
someone to bake all night, and adhere strictly to your recipes!!
4. The shop must run no matter what, if you are going to tie up capital in it.
so say goodbye to Holidays!
.
I could go on and on... And it would look more and more unappealing as I went on.
.
What I decided and what you should consider, approach a established Coffee shop chain and offer
them your Gluten Free baking exclusively. .
If your products go well in that branch and a branch in the next Town / State hear about your 'Goodies'
then your in a position to 'Franchise' to a capable baker that you would personally select to supply that branch.
.
You could get a 'Franchise Fee' and / or a percentage of the value of the sold products.
That way you may still have to bake all night, but you have your days at home.
.
This may not be making a whole lot of sense to you right now.
.
Best Regards,
David

[celiac-mommy]

irish daveyboy, on Apr 1 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

.
What I decided and what you should consider, approach a established Coffee shop chain and offer
them your Gluten Free baking exclusively. .
If your products go well in that branch and a branch in the next Town / State hear about your 'Goodies'
then your in a position to 'Franchise' to a capable baker that you would personally select to supply that branch.
.
You could get a 'Franchise Fee' and / or a percentage of the value of the sold products.
That way you may still have to bake all night, but you have your days at home.
.

I'm considering the same thing for all those reasons you listed above. It's been a dream of mine to have my own bakery--maybe someday, but I'm seriously thinking outsourcing instead for right now. I've heard it's kind of a pain to get your home kitchen certified.... Anyone know for sure?

[bakingbarb]

celiac-mommy, on Apr 1 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

I'm considering the same thing for all those reasons you listed above. It's been a dream of mine to have my own bakery--maybe someday, but I'm seriously thinking outsourcing instead for right now. I've heard it's kind of a pain to get your home kitchen certified.... Anyone know for sure?

Where we are, there has to be a separate kitchen, it must have its own sink, fridge, oven, etc and be shut off from the rest of the house, only an outside entry, and it must have its own bathroom. That took my house out of the running.

[mftnchn]

Not sure about buying flour blends, but for potato starch and tapioca starch I'd check the Chinese market and see about ordering in larger quantities. It is so cheap there.

[aaron&sam]

I use Authentic Foods Four Flour Blend! I order it online or I have to drive an hour away to buy it!

[Ridgewalker]

bakingbarb, on Apr 1 2008, 12:38 PM, said:

Sarah, thank you for answering. I too was thinking making my own blend. I pretty much use a blend for everything but add other flours in depending on what I am making. I am very much liking the coconut flour but all of this can be so spendy, that part worries me. I did see Bob's Red Mill does wholesale but I don't know how much you have to buy to be wholesale. (need to find this out)
Oh and the bean flour I have only used in a Bob's mix and I forgot and licked the bowl. UGH UGH UGH I don't know what i would or would not like it in. Why do you prefer them the way you do?
I wasn't thinking foods yet, just baked goods. I read somewhere that a problem with new cafés is they start out skimpy on the baked good. Well I can see why. How do you know what will and won't fly?
Oh jeez so many things running through my head about this.

I'm not sure why the Bob's Red Mill works for chocolate chip cookies-- and I agree, the raw dough is HEINOUS. It's only good once baked.

I, too have an all-purpose blend that I use for many things... Sometimes I add additional flours, and sometimes I just do the flours separately, for a different ratio.

I definitely wouldn't go into it until you had a menu full of "perfected" recipes in your repertoire. But you've got a lot going for you, having been a baker for so many years-- you have the long-term interest and drive to make these recipes work.

Several people have told me I ought to start doing a gluten-free homebaking business, but I've said No WAY! ... for the same reasons already mentioned here. What a pain in the butt- it's not for me. But for you, I've had an idea you might eventually want to do a gluten-free bakery/cafe since you first joined here.

I think it's a great idea, just don't rush it because of the current opportunity.

[lonewolf]

Barb, have you been to Haley's Corner Bakery in Kent? Maybe it would be worthwhile to go visit and ask them some questions. They are very sweet ladies and I'm sure they wouldn't mind answering a few questions for you. If I remember right, you're farther north, so you wouldn't be in competition with them for customers.

I met a lady in Federal Way who pays to use space in a commercial kitchen to bake gluten-free goodies a couple of times a week. She sells her products to a couple of health food stores and the Metropolitan Market. I can't remember the name of her products, but next time I'm at the HFS I'll look if you'd like and get her name and possibly phone number.

I've thought of opening a cafe too, but don't have any sense for business.

[Takala]

We visited a gluten free bakery yesterday about 2.5 hours from where we live, in Oakland. Aaaahhhh. Can't wait to go back. They have a little sit down section in the very front where you can eat your goodies and drink coffee or whatnot.
My husband ate some too and it was good enough that even non gluey's would enjoy it. We had a slice of pizza and some sort of delicious little lemon bar squares for dessert. This was the first time I've eaten pizza that either I or my husband did not make ourselves in 5 years, so it was pretty exciting.
Their crust was better than my crust texturewise and taste was fine. That was the largest oven I've ever seen, it was bigger than my bathroom at home !
We also brought home a bunch of other stuff to try.
It was great standing at the counter and being able to just inhale without having to worry.

If it's good enough stuff it being gluten free shouldn't be a turn off to anyone, the main problem with us going out to eat is that we lack safe places to go to, not that we don't have decent food to eat. Most of the baked goods that are found at tradional type coffee places would in fact taste less appealing when compared to this sort of baking because they aren't motivated to try to use natural type ingredients to provide the best flavor and textures.

Yeast raised breads baked in a loaf pan seem to be what gives most people the most fits ( I include myself in this category, if I do a "loaf" of bread I tend to just do it as a quickbread and save myself the agravation, I've even gotten quick breads to behave well enough to be able to be used for sliced bread for sandwiches without toasting).

But everybody likes things like muffins and brownies and cheesecakes and they are actually pretty easy to make consistantly compared to the Yeast raised Bread Loaf.

You could do salads gluten free extremely easily, and add in a soup du jour and with muffins and cookie type things you could then have enough menu selection to accompany coffees thru lunch. You could also do quesidillas very easily if you used pre made gluten free corn tortillas and green salsa.

The thing would be to keep it simple at first. I'd be doing two things, one, trying out recipes that I know worked consistantly on other people who ate normally, to see if they like it, and secondly, researching wholesale suppliers of gluten free flours (and coffee ingredients) to see who could provide a steady supply. You'd really want to be sure your facility was gluten free if that is the way you were to go.

You also could try using OTHER sources for some of your gluten free goods, like ordering off of other gluten free bakeries to supplement your menu.

It seems that there is one type of flour mix that works well for breads and another type for cakes and cookies, but I've used all sorts of self made mixes and have found the only truth is that the more types of gluten free flours used, the better the end result. Plain rice flour, blat. Rice/corn/tapioca or rice/tapioca/potato or lots of other combinations of the 4 major gluten free flour combinations plus smaller amounts of the special flours like nut meals, sorghum, or coconut or bean flours seem to work the best. And bean flours seem to be controversial.

[bakingbarb]

Takala, on Apr 5 2008, 03:16 PM, said:

We visited a gluten free bakery yesterday about 2.5 hours from where we live, in Oakland. Aaaahhhh. Can't wait to go back. They have a little sit down section in the very front where you can eat your goodies and drink coffee or whatnot.
My husband ate some too and it was good enough that even non gluey's would enjoy it. We had a slice of pizza and some sort of delicious little lemon bar squares for dessert. This was the first time I've eaten pizza that either I or my husband did not make ourselves in 5 years, so it was pretty exciting.
Their crust was better than my crust texturewise and taste was fine. That was the largest oven I've ever seen, it was bigger than my bathroom at home !
We also brought home a bunch of other stuff to try.
It was great standing at the counter and being able to just inhale without having to worry.

If it's good enough stuff it being gluten free shouldn't be a turn off to anyone, the main problem with us going out to eat is that we lack safe places to go to, not that we don't have decent food to eat. Most of the baked goods that are found at tradional type coffee places would in fact taste less appealing when compared to this sort of baking because they aren't motivated to try to use natural type ingredients to provide the best flavor and textures.

Yeast raised breads baked in a loaf pan seem to be what gives most people the most fits ( I include myself in this category, if I do a "loaf" of bread I tend to just do it as a quickbread and save myself the agravation, I've even gotten quick breads to behave well enough to be able to be used for sliced bread for sandwiches without toasting).

But everybody likes things like muffins and brownies and cheesecakes and they are actually pretty easy to make consistantly compared to the Yeast raised Bread Loaf.

You could do salads gluten free extremely easily, and add in a soup du jour and with muffins and cookie type things you could then have enough menu selection to accompany coffees thru lunch. You could also do quesidillas very easily if you used pre made gluten free corn tortillas and green salsa.

The thing would be to keep it simple at first. I'd be doing two things, one, trying out recipes that I know worked consistantly on other people who ate normally, to see if they like it, and secondly, researching wholesale suppliers of gluten free flours (and coffee ingredients) to see who could provide a steady supply. You'd really want to be sure your facility was gluten free if that is the way you were to go.

You also could try using OTHER sources for some of your gluten free goods, like ordering off of other gluten free bakeries to supplement your menu.

It seems that there is one type of flour mix that works well for breads and another type for cakes and cookies, but I've used all sorts of self made mixes and have found the only truth is that the more types of gluten free flours used, the better the end result. Plain rice flour, blat. Rice/corn/tapioca or rice/tapioca/potato or lots of other combinations of the 4 major gluten free flour combinations plus smaller amounts of the special flours like nut meals, sorghum, or coconut or bean flours seem to work the best. And bean flours seem to be controversial.

You have a lot of really good thoughts on this. I am glad you posted the info you did.n What you talk about is exactly what I think. Espresso cafe with all the trimmings, yummy things to eat. Not sure about pizza but I think quiche for sure but men are not keen on quiche so there has to be something that appeals to them. Big cookies, muffins, scones, bar cookies, cheesecake for sure. Seating is another for sure. I want people to want to be there. LOL you get the idea.

It seems before I think an idea is great I shoud look at the kitchen first. The kitchen is a big EWWWWW and for the amount of money we would have to put in there we might as well go somewhere else.
In no way does this mean I am giving up looking. This just makes me look harder. BUT at the same time it gives me time to perfect recipes.

[camoflauge]

How lucky you people are that have gluten free bakeries, eateries, etc. i wish there was something like that around here, but I live in rural SD so until more people are aware of problems with wheat, im outta luck. but, i've always been fond of baking and have found quite a few good recipes that i really like. Looking forward to finding more.

i've dreamed of a coffee shop. it sounds like such a cozy type thing to do. plus, everyone drinks coffee, well, almost everyone.

good luck in your venture. i hope all works out. I do agree with "outsourcing" some of the home baked goodies, at least at the beginning. also, maybe selling the "mixes" so people can cook at home adding a few ingredients. i have to buy everything online for the most part (except things naturally gluten free) and the shipping is what kills me.

Heather