Need Some Input On Why This Enzyme Is Helping So Much

[Rachel--24]

I saw a sight which gave a recipe for making your own "cream". There seemed to be quite a few choices as far as what you can use to make it. And it looked very simple...especially if you have a cream that works for you that you can add it to. Giovanni products have been my favorite but at this point, I'm leaning towards making it with simpler oils. The less ingredients the better.

I've seen a few different recipes for the cream but they all contained oils I react to....like coconut. I could probably find something that would work but I'm pretty lazy about stuff like this. It seemed complicated to me so I went ahead and ordered the cream. Before I used it I had my Dr. test it for me. She tests everything using ART (autonomic response testing). She said that the kirkmans cream has been well tolerated by the kids so I've just been using that and havent noticed any obvious problems.

I think you're on the right track as far as having mineral levels checked and then going back to that route of therapy.

Yeah...I'm a little disappointed that I didnt do all of this prior to starting treatment. I knew it was important but at the same time I get excited about starting treatment and tend to overlook certain things.

I also didnt fully understand the importance of checking certain minerals to make sure they arent already at toxic levels before supplementing (i.e. copper).

The oral DMSA didn't work out very well with my dd as the smell of it was impossible for her to get past (she was a toddler at the time). So, I have been using lots of fresh cilantro in cooking and try to work chlorella in. But I would imagine those may be high in copper as well. So I'm not offering you much help.

Unfortunately my body REALLY hates chlorella right now. I'm not sure if its high in copper...but I believe that it is high in sulfur. I have never tested well for it with any type of muscle testing including ART....it seriously stresses my body.

I did try it sometime last year and I got really sick. I actually started throwing up alot from it. I NEVER throw up and that was the only time during my whole illness that I got sick in that way. I guess my body really doesnt like chlorella!

I think cilantro is high in salicylates so I avoid it for that reason but also because its possible that it crosses the blood brain barrier and chelates mercury from the brain. This is something not recommended early on in treatment. Usually they want to detox mercury from extracellular areas first, then intracellular and finally the brain.

Theres a reason for going in a certain order. If you still have significant body burden and you mobilize mercury from the brain theres a strong chance that it will be redistributed back into the brain...which can cause more damage than if it were just left alone.

Also, cilantro by itself isnt a strong chelator...meaning it doesnt form a strong bond with mercury in the way chelators such as DMSA or DMPS do. Its capable of pulling mercury out of tissue but not necessarily able to remove it from the body safely....so it can just be moving mercury around but not eliminating it.

Chelation is a complicated thing. Right now I have a heavy toxic load and I dont do well with anything that mobilizes mercury without actually getting rid of it. I just avoid cilantro altogether for that reason.

A strong chelator has two "thiols"....cliantro and garlic are considered "mobilizers"...they only have one "thiol"....because of that they arent truelly considered chelators by themselves. They need other things to help them move mercury out....chlorella is one thing that can help because its a good "binder".

The only chelators that have two thiols are the synthetic ones.

[Rachel--24]

This is what I'm trying to figure out with my dd and I. Are we deficient in the enzyme or other key mineral, are we not converting sulfur or is it that there aren't enough sulfate ions available to excrete the metals? And since hindsight is 20/20....let me tell you what stupid mainstream advice I followed in the past.

I would start with a mineral check...both hair and blood should give you some good clues. Hair analysis can give you good ideas about mercury because even though it doesnt usually appear in the hair (unless there is recent exposure) if the essential minerals are all over the place its very indicative of mercury toxicity. If you have high calcium for example...this means that there is a transport problem...its not getting to where it needs to go (in the cells)...it has nowhere to go so you'll see excess levels in the hair. Thats usually because mercury is a problem. Many of the minerals become skewed because of this.

When you know what minerals are deficient and what enzymes require those particular minerals as a cofactor...you can see if it correlates with some of the problems...like an inability to covert sulfur to sulfate, etc.

As far as following stupid mainstream advice...I made ALL the wrong choices in the beginning and it has alot to do with how bad off I am today.

First off was allowing a regular dentist deal with the metals in my mouth. If not for that I would more than likely still be healthy. After the damage was done my thyroid went haywire with "seemingly" uncontrollable Graves Disease. I had hyperthyroid prior to getting sick...but it didnt interfere with my life and it was easily controlled. The Dr.'s had tried to push me into destroying the thyroid with radiation from the first day that I was diagnosed.

I chose NOT to do that and walked out of the building when they sent me to radiology without even explaining to me...they gave me a flyer to read.

After my dental work I couldnt cope with the debilitating symptoms that were appearing. Alot of them seemed similar to hyperthyroid symptoms I'd experienced in the past...but FAR worse. They told me the only way to get better was to kill my thyroid...so I finally gave in.

I took radioactive iodine treatment to "treat" my thyroid and instead of getting better I got worse. None of my symptoms improved and instead I got additional symptoms...and now have to rely on thyroid replacement forever.

I'm just thankful that I learned early on that mainstream does not have all the answers and since then I havent done anymore harm to my body by treating symptoms rather than the root cause.

[shayesmom]

With all of these factors it does seem likely that mercury is at the root of health issues for both of you.

That is my train of thinking as well. I look at my celiac aunt and she has absolutely no other food sensitivities. Meanwhile, I look at my mom who isn't a celiac but has mutliple food intolerances and a mouth full of amalgams (and her idiot dentist drilled them all out a few years ago only to replace them with more silver amalgams! ). Now, I won't deny that I have something going on that is serious with nutrient absorption....because I don't think I'd have ended up with a bunch of cavities had that not been the case. So what comes first....the chicken or the egg? The manifestations of the food intolerances are much, much worse in my dd. She can't tolerate even skin contact with gluten. Never mind the trace exposures that could get into the mouth. That's a given. What I am saying is that she seems to absorb it through the skin and will react. THAT is not celiac. That is something else entirely.

I would start with a mineral check...both hair and blood should give you some good clues. Hair analysis can give you good ideas about mercury because even though it doesnt usually appear in the hair (unless there is recent exposure) if the essential minerals are all over the place its very indicative of mercury toxicity.

I have a copy of her hair analysis from two years ago. So I will research into this further.

I'm just thankful that I learned early on that mainstream does not have all the answers and since then I havent done anymore harm to my body by treating symptoms rather than the root cause.

Yes, I can agree wholeheartedly there. I understand the premise that they treat everyone with whatever seems to benefit the "whole" the most. However, if you aren't in the majority, that form of treatment can really compound the problem. Everything our pediatrician told us to do with my dd was the exact OPPOSITE of what needed to happen. I don't know whether to blame the doctors, the medical schools, big pharma, insurance agencies or the bean counters which are in charge of what tests need to be run first to protect their bottom line. And I will admit that there are a lot of patients out there who take no responsibility whatsoever for their own health. They are all driving the system into dysfunction. And invariably, it seems like it's the people who actually care about being healthy and take on the most responsibility for getting well that constantly get the shaft. And so we rely heavily on alternatives....because they actually fix the problem, they don't rely on masking the symptoms.

The thing about it is that its not a hopeless situation....this is something thats treatable. I dont know your dd's age or whether or not shes on the spectrum (I dont remember her symptoms from past threads) but alot of children do very well with treatment.

I'm a perpetual optimist! lol! So I am not discouraged by the process. I figure that this was put in front of me because I'm supposed to learn something from it. As for my dd, she's going to be 5 next week. Thankfully, she is not on the spectrum. I credit this to having discovered a lot of the food, mercury and preservative issues out early on. At 15 months, everyone who met her was positive she'd be diagnosed with ADHD. She couldn't concentrate, couldn't sit still, couldn't sleep, barely ate. It was a very tough thing to deal with on a daily basis. Once I discovered gluten was a factor, then dairy, then soy...well, I started to research. The egg allergy and reaction to food dyes began a short time after a flu vaccine. So did the weird rashes. I will not let anyone vaccinate her again. If she wants to get those shots when she's older...that's her choice. We did do testing to see if she reacted to ingredients in vaccines....OMG....she reacted off the charts.

[Rachel--24]

I look at my celiac aunt and she has absolutely no other food sensitivities. Meanwhile, I look at my mom who isn't a celiac but has mutliple food intolerances and a mouth full of amalgams (and her idiot dentist drilled them all out a few years ago only to replace them with more silver amalgams! ).

Yes, its my understanding that the multiple food intolerances are a whole different issue altogether. The only thing causing damage in Celiac is gluten...once thats removed healing should begin. If there are multiple food intolerances I think that this is related to toxicity and the damage that it does do to gut ecology. Mercury is a huge factor in this.

I read from one of the most well known Dr.'s treating mercury toxicity that if you test a mercury toxic individual for food intolerances....you might test for 600 foods and the patient is reacting to 500+ foods. He doesnt see the point in eliminating all these foods....instead he detoxes the person from mercury and the food intolerances start to drop off.

All my Dr.'s recommend eliminating gluten, dairy, sugar and alcohol during treatment.....because usually people are having problems with them and they place an extra burden on the immune system.

What I am saying is that she seems to absorb it through the skin and will react. THAT is not celiac. That is something else entirely.

I agree. I have problems with things absorbed through the skin as well. If my body cant handle it...it doesnt seem to matter how it gets into my system...its still a problem.

I have a copy of her hair analysis from two years ago. So I will research into this further.

Heres a really helpful link for interpretaing the results.

Open Original Shared Link

I'm a perpetual optimist! lol! So I am not discouraged by the process. I figure that this was put in front of me because I'm supposed to learn something from it.

I feel the same way.

As for my dd, she's going to be 5 next week. Thankfully, she is not on the spectrum. I credit this to having discovered a lot of the food, mercury and preservative issues out early on.

It does seem like you made the right decision to stop vaccinating. More vaccines would have probably pushed her over the edge. She's adorable by the way....I've always thought that was the cutest picture!

[shayesmom]

Yes, its my understanding that the multiple food intolerances are a whole different issue altogether. The only thing causing damage in Celiac is gluten...once thats removed healing should begin. If there are multiple food intolerances I think that this is related to toxicity and the damage that it does do to gut ecology. Mercury is a huge factor in this.

I read from one of the most well known Dr.'s treating mercury toxicity that if you test a mercury toxic individual for food intolerances....you might test for 600 foods and the patient is reacting to 500+ foods. He doesnt see the point in eliminating all these foods....instead he detoxes the person from mercury and the food intolerances start to drop off.

All my Dr.'s recommend eliminating gluten, dairy, sugar and alcohol during treatment.....because usually people are having problems with them and they place an extra burden on the immune system.

What's a darn shame is that more doctors in the mainstream just completely blow off the issue of mercury and health problems. If they can't test it via blood...then you're just completely off your rocker. It constantly amazes me that they can completely brush this aside and poo-poo everything you tell them that is going on. Meanwhile, after running a full battery of tests for months on end...they come back to you with nothing. Nothing is wrong. I had one pedi try and tell me that 7-10 BMs per day that my dd was having was "perfectly normal". OKAY. Meanwhile, another child will have a BM once per week and that is still "perfectly normal".

You know, perhaps you were given all of this to deal with BEFORE you have children because a higher power realized that you wouldn't be able to take health issues AND an idiot pedi at the same time! lol! I'm sorry...but some of them are so hard to talk to. I call our first pedi the vaccine nazi. She read me the riot act for not wanting my dd to get the flu shot. She even said that she felt parents who don't have their children get the flu vaccine were the most irresponsible parents she's encountered. Now....how was that NOT going to influence my decision. And when things went bad, who paid the price? It wasn't the "responsible" pediatrician. Ugghh....I truly dislike the woman and am so glad I fired her.

It does seem like you made the right decision to stop vaccinating. More vaccines would have probably pushed her over the edge. She's adorable by the way....I've always thought that was the cutest picture!

Yes, I am happy with my decision to forego any more vaccines. And, I got a medical exemption to boot. The doctor couldn't deny the medical studies I brought in along with my dd's symptoms and other tests. We've received no counter arguments since.

And thanks for the compliment! I think she's adorable as well. Of course, it's not that I'm completely biased or anything! I'm lucky she came along to teach me all of this stuff. So I will be looking forward to seeing how things go for you. Because after all you've experienced...it will be interesting to see what more you are to learn from your children. Hopefully....it will center around sitting back and just having fun.

[Rachel--24]

What's a darn shame is that more doctors in the mainstream just completely blow off the issue of mercury and health problems. If they can't test it via blood...then you're just completely off your rocker. It constantly amazes me that they can completely brush this aside and poo-poo everything you tell them that is going on. Meanwhile, after running a full battery of tests for months on end...they come back to you with nothing. Nothing is wrong.

This was the hardest thing for me to deal with. I only had mainstream Dr.'s for the first 3 years....and I was sooo sick. I was not functioning and was on disability for most of that time. They couldnt find ANYTHING wrong....so yes...the only POSSIBLE explanation was that I needed to see a physchiatrist for depression. Besides being a "hypochondriach" I was perfectly healthy.

It infuriates me. They dont have any clue about any of this and meanwhile I thought I was dying. How does a normal, happy, active, fully functioning girl go from loving life to the complete OPPOSITE...in only a matter of weeks (following amalgam removals)?? It just doesnt happen without cause!

I had to realize that continuing down the road of mainstream was gonna destroy me...and I was already dealing with severe depression because I was scared, not functioning and noone was helping at all.

When I took matters into my own hands the first thing I did was change my diet....drastically...and I was functioning again! I returned back to work and have been working full-time since (almost 3 years now ).

The mainstream Dr.'s laughed at me....called it the "placebo effect" and again said I needed to see a phsychiatrist if I wanted to "get better".

The best part was that it was the phsychiatrist...and ONLY the phsychiatrist....who was smart enough to see that *something* was wrong...and there was a physcial CAUSE...which my Dr.'s had yet to identify. She sent her report to them.

But this is the nature of mercury toxicity...unless its an acute poisoning there is no easy way to diagnose it with traditional tests. It doesnt "appear" in any test...the only treatment you'll get from mainstream are the ones that will mask symptoms.

You know, perhaps you were given all of this to deal with BEFORE you have children because a higher power realized that you wouldn't be able to take health issues AND an idiot pedi at the same time! lol!

Thats hysterical...and SOOO true! I consider myself a strong person...and yet it got to the point that I think the idiot Dr.'s were tearing me down more than the illness itself!

I couldn't deal with an idiot Pedi....I already KNOW this....and yeah a higher power must have known this as well.

She read me the riot act for not wanting my dd to get the flu shot. She even said that she felt parents who don't have their children get the flu vaccine were the most irresponsible parents she's encountered. Now....how was that NOT going to influence my decision. And when things went bad, who paid the price? It wasn't the "responsible" pediatrician. Ugghh....I truly dislike the woman and am so glad I fired her.

Yup when things go bad...who's going to "fix" it...and who's going to even LISTEN to your concerns?? Thats why we have to be in charge of our own health....because what I learned is that when they make the wrong decisions for us...they arent going to acknowledge it and they arent going to do anything to help us when we're paying the price.

My Dr.'s that I have now advised me to NOT get a flu shot unless I want to get a whole lot worse. Luckily, I have not ever gotten them in the past.

So I will be looking forward to seeing how things go for you. Because after all you've experienced...it will be interesting to see what more you are to learn from your children. Hopefully....it will center around sitting back and just having fun.

Thanks...I really hope my own experience has taught me enough that I'll be able to have a healthy kid...and of course alot of FUN!!!

[shayesmom]

This was the hardest thing for me to deal with. I only had mainstream Dr.'s for the first 3 years....and I was sooo sick. I was not functioning and was on disability for most of that time. They couldnt find ANYTHING wrong....so yes...the only POSSIBLE explanation was that I needed to see a physchiatrist for depression. Besides being a "hypochondriach" I was perfectly healthy.

It infuriates me. They dont have any clue about any of this and meanwhile I thought I was dying. How does a normal, happy, active, fully functioning girl go from loving life to the complete OPPOSITE...in only a matter of weeks (following amalgam removals)?? It just doesnt happen without cause!

Unfortunately, that seems to be the theme of things in medicine these days. There are some great doctors out there....but the bad doctors are more common and it takes a major life issue in order to become aware of just how little they know. I think that many of them become crippled by their prescription pad. I'm sure it's nice to be able to write a prescription for a drug and know that a symptoms will be controlled, but I think that hinders them incredibly when looking for the real diagnosis. And it doesn't help that pharmaceuticals are now directly advertising on tv. Patients are going in asking for certain prescription drugs because their symptoms match what the drug masks. That's not healing. I guess I am old school in the mentality that doctor=healer. Or rather, I believe it should be that way.

When I took matters into my own hands the first thing I did was change my diet....drastically...and I was functioning again! I returned back to work and have been working full-time since (almost 3 years now ).

The mainstream Dr.'s laughed at me....called it the "placebo effect" and again said I needed to see a phsychiatrist if I wanted to "get better".

Yes, I have seen this attitude in person. I believe that my comment to a doctor who said that was, "Considering your abysmal lack of training in nutrition and diet, don't you think your ignorant arrogance is a bit misplaced?".

Thats hysterical...and SOOO true! I consider myself a strong person...and yet it got to the point that I think the idiot Dr.'s were tearing me down more than the illness itself!

I couldn't deal with an idiot Pedi....I already KNOW this....and yeah a higher power must have known this as well.

I think that it's different if you have an idiot pedi with a first child vs. the second, third, etc.. Having an idiot with the first one is downright dangerous! I think it takes a full 2 years with the first child to really gain confidence in your parenting ability. So until then, you are easily influenced by pediatricians who awe you with their hands-on experience of dealing with thousands of babies (and the idiots verbally remind you of this fact a lot). I found that going to a GP was a safer and less infuriating option. lol!

Yup when things go bad...who's going to "fix" it...and who's going to even LISTEN to your concerns??

This really does strike a chord when it comes to those who suffer from vaccine damage. One of the side effects that should be listed on the handouts they give at well-baby check-ups is the one where if your child is damaged, the pedi reserves the right not to report it to VAERS, the pedi will deny it's the vaccine completely and the pedi will most likely not support you should you take your case to vaccine court. If they're going to deny there's a problem, then at least admit how deep the denial really runs.

[Cinnamon]

Hi! I just wanted to jump in here and say that I got some serrapeptidase to try, and I think it's great! I didn't get Serralone but Serratrol, which is only 10 mg of serrapeptidase versus 1,200 mg in Serralone, but I saw the Serratrol in the health food store and thought I would give it a try. I was hoping it would help reduce inflammation for all the gluten intolerants in the family as well as help me with all my various nodules - thyroid nodules, breast nodules, lumps under my arm, etc.

Well I gave it to my 11-year-old son, and I think it really helped him. He's had mainly neurological symptoms, many of which have really improved on a gluten-free diet. But his memory isn't the greatest, and he still has difficulty concentrating (has an ADHD diagnosis). He's been taking it about a week and a half, and he says he's feeling really good and focused in school. The teacher remarked to me that she saw the difference, too. Now today he just got back some tests and papers that he did about a week ago, and the grades were great! A 92 and a 94 on the tests, and grades in the 80's and 90's on the papers. That is excellent for him! His memory is usually really bad and he has to study very hard for tests, and even with extra studying, he has trouble remembering all the facts for the tests. He understands the math, but usually makes a lot of careless errors since he doesn't focus well. So, to get A's and B's is really great and unusual for him! His appetite has really picked up as well. And I only give him 1- 10mg pill a day! I think it's really helping!

I don't know how my nodules are doing, hopefully they are shrinking. The ones under my arm seem smaller. I have to get a thyroid nodule biopsied on the 29th and hopefully it will have shrunk. It will be interesting to see if it is smaller.

Well, I just wanted to pass that along. It may not be a helpful supplement for everyone, but I think it's definitely worth trying.

[shayesmom]

Cinnamon,

That is awesome news! I'll keep my fingers crossed that it is also working on the thyroid nodules. The product is so bizarre in where it seems to help. I find myself really keeping up with it whereas with others, I tend to fall off and go back on. With this, I always remember to keep with at least one per day. Two seems to be optimum as far as my psoriasis.

It's funny you mention your son being able to concentrate more. I noticed the same thing with myself but thought maybe I was just having a spurt of focus that lasts longer than most. lol! There is mention of serratiopeptadase being used for fibrocystic breasts...so I do think that this may be of some help for you.

I also find it interesting that it's helping with your son. The more I read on sulfation issues and the way enzymes can be blocked by toxins such as mercury, the more this all makes sense. I'll be ordering a kid's digestive enzyme formula for my dd as well. I think it would be really useful during the school year when cc issues are at their worst. During the summer and on breaks....it really isn't that big of a deal because she does fine at home with us (we're an allergen-free home). But at school...it's so hard to keep 100% safe. It's also really interesting to hear that even the teacher has noticed a difference. I really don't think that this is something I've just been imagining as far as how this is helping. Over the past year, I've been eliminating more and more foods and the reactions keep coming. Now, I don't have to be so manic about all the intolerances. I'm no longer reacting to things like corn, trace dairy and soy, and even the Pepsi rash didn't occur (I actually trialed that once at the beginning of the week). I do think that I have to give up my one cup of coffee a day though.

Please keep us posted on how the biopsy goes. I am developing a lot of faith in this product and I wouldn't be surprised to see it help you enormously as well. Another friend of mine with multiple food intolerances also started that along with Candidase (enzyme that breaks down candida). He's suffered with major migraines for over 2 decades. In the past two weeks, the migraines are gone and he's able to enjoy a more varied diet (he was reacting to all gluten, dairy, soy, corn, nightshades, berries, legumes, salt and sugar). He also hasn't had to take his migraine medication (we're talking $30 for EACH pill).

This whole thing is weird...but pretty exciting!

[Cinnamon]

Yes, it it exciting! We've tried so many supplements hoping that they will help in some way, only to have them do nothing but lighten our wallets. I have a cabinet full of them! So it's great to see some actual improvements. I think my varicose veins are doing better, unless it's just my imagination.

It's great that you don't have the additional intolerances to corn, soy, etc. now! I was having some trouble with coffee, too, but found that if I ate something while drinking it, I could have 2 cups. I used to drink it all day long, but since going gluten-free, anything acidic is trouble. I can't have it on an empty stomach, that's for sure. Now I eat breakfast first, then have 2 cups, and I can tolerate that, but no more.

I'm glad to hear about your friend with the migraines doing so much better! Hopefully my son's ocular migraines will stop. I think it might be helping my fibrocystic breast problem. I'm having a lot of itching there, so I'm thinking that's a good sign.

[shayesmom]

Yes, it it exciting! We've tried so many supplements hoping that they will help in some way, only to have them do nothing but lighten our wallets. I have a cabinet full of them! So it's great to see some actual improvements.

We also have a bunch of supplements. Some are definitely better than others. I've been slowly building my supply of supplements and herbals that I want to have in my medicine cabinet. Serralone was one for pain and inflammation (as opposed to Tylenol). Now, it's in there for many more reasons. I also keep D-Mannose stocked. It is incredible for UTIs....working within 20 minutes (you can feel the difference in that time). Three doses in one day and the UTI is history. No antibiotics needed. We do keep a multi and DHA/omega supplement in stock. But truthfully, my favorite omega is Omegessentials. That one ROCKS and you can tell the difference in how you feel compared to other brands. I now want to start stocking some arnica-based cream for bruises and sprains. Heck, I even have a mix of herbals and ground spices that I can cook up to make my own cough syrup. Even my dh has taken it because it's really effective and doesn't taste like medicine. We're slowly getting there.

It's great that you don't have the additional intolerances to corn, soy, etc. now! I was having some trouble with coffee, too, but found that if I ate something while drinking it, I could have 2 cups.

It's not that the intolerances are completely gone. It's just that I can now tolerate them well in small amounts which was never an option over the past couple of months. Even one week prior to starting the Serralone, I was having major issues with these. The coffee thing has become more pronounced since beginning the Serralone. That is weird, but it may be the motivation I need to just quit drinking it.

Hopefully my son's ocular migraines will stop. I think it might be helping my fibrocystic breast problem. I'm having a lot of itching there, so I'm thinking that's a good sign.

The itching is probably a very good sign. I've seen this work on torn muscles, pneumonia and edema in short order. My father didn't take it very long when he battled cancer (we weren't aware of it's effects on tumors then). But it was shortly after starting it that he actually coughed out one of the tumors in his lung. It was the strangest thing and his oncologist had no idea what to make of it. Unfortunately, we took him off of it because he was scheduled for a biopsy and this does thin the blood...so we had to discontinue it. We didn't want to start it up again until he healed from the biopsy and then things got bad. He didn't last two weeks after that so we never were able to get it going again. So I do really think this will help you.

[Rachel--24]

And please let me know what the test results show. I will have to go back through my notes over the past couple of years. I KNOW I ran across something when it comes to excess copper.

Hi Vicki,

I got the results of my red blood cell test. The copper was elevated which is what I'd suspected....so now I really need to bring that way down. It was the only mineral that was elevated.

Copper metaolism gets really thrown off by mercury and I'm not really sure that I'm actually able to utilize the copper....most likely not. Its just building up to toxic levels. The copper/zinc ratio becomes out of balance...which appears to be the case for me.

I think that would greatly increase my overall toxicity....so it does explain why I felt better after my first DMPS treatments and then went downhill after starting mineral IV's with all minerals including copper.

I read that in mercury toxic individuals elevated copper is common and its recommended that those people avoid copper (which is in so many supplements) and that its best to keep the copper levels on the low side.

Besides that I was extremely low on selenium and chromium. I was on the low side with alot of the minerals but still within reference range. It would be good for me to bring the copper down and build the other ones up...especially the selenium which is pretty important for some enzymes and for detoxification.

I'm waiting to hear from my Dr.'s but I hope to go back to DMPS IV's and this time supplement back in all minerals with the exception of copper.

[Rachel--24]

Thanks for the info. about the D-Mannose for UTI's. I have a friend who just had reoccuring UTI and took antibiotics. I'll have to look up the D-Mannose.

[shayesmom]

Hi Vicki,

I got the results of my red blood cell test. The copper was elevated which is what I'd suspected....so now I really need to bring that way down. It was the only mineral that was elevated.

I decided to browse through the last 10 pages or so of the OMG thread and saw your post on copper levels. For what it's worth, it's good to know that your instincts are dead-on. Not many people would bother looking into this as far as you have. So hopefully, you'll be able to get your levels normalized and begin seeing improvement soon! And FYI....you guys are KILLING me on that thread! Now there's almost 1900 pages!!! I was soooo hoping that finishing the thread wouldn't end up being stuck on my New Year's resolutions for 2009....

I'm waiting to hear from my Dr.'s but I hope to go back to DMPS IV's and this time supplement back in all minerals with the exception of copper.

I think that would be the absolute best way to approach this. Will your doctors re-check mineral levels before and after each treatment?

Thanks for the info. about the D-Mannose for UTI's. I have a friend who just had reoccuring UTI and took antibiotics. I'll have to look up the D-Mannose.

You should enjoy the medical studies that state D-Mannose is more efficient and effective than any antibiotic in curing UTIs. I'm also wondering a bit about the fact it is derived from cranberries. Cranberry juice is supposed to help people with phenol issues (if I read things correctly). I also believe cranberry juice is a good source of sulfates. So now I wonder how D-Mannose fits in....because it sure as heck contains a lot less sugar than the commercial juices on the market. I'm wondering if the active ingredient in the D-Mannose also contains sulfates? I should look that up!

[Rachel--24]

And FYI....you guys are KILLING me on that thread! Now there's almost 1900 pages!!! I was soooo hoping that finishing the thread wouldn't end up being stuck on my New Year's resolutions for 2009....

Sorry...that thread really gets moving sometimes....we're a very determined (and chatty) bunch. I think it would be a miracle if you got done by Xmas!!

I think that would be the absolute best way to approach this. Will your doctors re-check mineral levels before and after each treatment?

I think generally the levels get re-checked about every 2 months or so. It would be too costly to run tests after each treatment....plus I think it takes awhile to build things up or brings things down.

You should enjoy the medical studies that state D-Mannose is more efficient and effective than any antibiotic in curing UTIs. I'm also wondering a bit about the fact it is derived from cranberries. Cranberry juice is supposed to help people with phenol issues (if I read things correctly). I also believe cranberry juice is a good source of sulfates. So now I wonder how D-Mannose fits in....because it sure as heck contains a lot less sugar than the commercial juices on the market. I'm wondering if the active ingredient in the D-Mannose also contains sulfates? I should look that up!

Hmmm...interesting about the cranberries. I'd never heard that they could help phenol issues. I think they are high in salicylate so I'm not sure how that would work since salicylates inhibit PST. Maybe the sulfate is enough to counteract the effects of salicylates??

I'm definately gonna mention the D-Mannose to my friend because its obviously a MUCH better option than taking antibiotics.

[shayesmom]

Hmmm...interesting about the cranberries. I'd never heard that they could help phenol issues. I think they are high in salicylate so I'm not sure how that would work since salicylates inhibit PST. Maybe the sulfate is enough to counteract the effects of salicylates??

Here's an excerpt I read while looking up PST and autism:

"Foods with high phenolic content should exacerbate symptoms since they overtax the available sulphur resources of the body. Anecdotal reports abound about the adverse effects of apples, oranges and other citrus fruits, chocolate (possibly on account of the phenol flavoring vanillin) and other phenolic foods on behavior in children with autism. Cranberry juice has been anecdotally reported to reduce or even eliminate these effects. Whether this due to the sulphur content of the juice or some other mechanism including placebo remains to be determined." Interestingly enough, I tried searching for "D-Mannose and sulfation" and got a ton of medical studies....good or bad, I don't know yet. They were all really technical and my brain wasn't in the mood to play any more.

I'm definately gonna mention the D-Mannose to my friend because its obviously a MUCH better option than taking antibiotics.

It is definitely worth a try. Also, D-Mannose is supposed to go directly from the intestines into the bloodstream and not be metabolized. Since it's a sugar compound related to glucose (but conversion is 8x slower), I don't know if that component of it would contain salicylates or phenols. I can say that my dd tolerated it quite well as did I. I've often had problems with kidney infections and several weeks ago, I felt one coming on (this usually ends up in a hospital stay). I took one dose and felt better within 20 minutes. I haven't had any recurrent pain and I've not taken any more than that one dose (about 1 tsp).

The only down-side to the D-mannose and now the Serralone is that it once again underscores my general cynicism towards the medical community. I don't consider myself a genius and it really upsets me that there are such great natural alternatives to some nasty pharmaceuticals...and yet, the majority of doctors are clueless as to how to utilize them. The studies are there...the results are great....and yet they continue with the same tired old routines that end up jeopardizing a patient's long-term health. It is dogma at its worst. And I am not one for dogma. I want practical solutions to problems....not solutions that lead to more intricate problems.

[Cinnamon]

Another thing about D-Mannose is that, supposedly, in theory at least, it's supposed to bind to the lectins in gluten and keep them from adhering to the small intestine, I guess in the same way it keeps the urinary tract healthy by preventing bacteria from getting a foothold and multiplying. I was researching this when we first went gluten free. It's hard to really research because googling it I would get either a really technical scientific paper which was hard to slog through with my Biology 101 from 20 years ago, or it would be a vitamin company praising it to the skies hoping you'll buy it. I tried it with the kids and myself when we would find ourselves in a cross-contamination situation, and it was hard to know if it helped. I think we came to the conclusion that it didn't really help for that purpose, but we were brand new to this at the time, too. It does seem like an overall good thing.

I'm with you on the doctors. Why should a regular person with no special training and nothing more than a computer mouse be more knowledgeable about supplements and how they can help with serious health concerns than a doctor with all kinds of degrees and years of day-in-day-out experience with patients? It's sad.

[shayesmom]

I'm with you on the doctors. Why should a regular person with no special training and nothing more than a computer mouse be more knowledgeable about supplements and how they can help with serious health concerns than a doctor with all kinds of degrees and years of day-in-day-out experience with patients? It's sad.

I think that what insults me the most is that very few of the doctors we saw even bothered to listen to my observations and concerns with my dd. You can almost see them mentally matching up symptoms to a pill...as they try to keep the appointment to under 15 minutes. You get about 3-5 minutes to explain your case. I don't know about everyone else....but that little amount of time isn't nearly enough to go over the intricacy of some of the symptoms, how they are triggered and how they manifest in different ways. Many just don't listen. The main reason you go to the doctor is because you're having health problems. How can they expect to treat anyone if they aren't paying attention? Half the time, we walked out of there not knowing anything more than when we walked in. Getting referrals is like pulling teeth and the waiting list once you get it....aye carumba. Meanwhile, the doctor promptly forgets your case once you walk out the door....but NEVER forgets to bill you, whether they offered anything beyond a cursory physical exam or not. I can have my blood pressure read at the mall for a considerable amount less than our current co-pay. And I can take my temperature and weight at home for free. In all honesty, getting the pulse, weight and temperature takes longer than the actual time the doctor spends with us. So what the heck is that about??? It's a joke. At times I feel like asking when the leeching begins....but then I remember that they want their co-pay BEFORE us seeing the doctor....so there's my answer.

I am frustrated that so many doctors failed my dd when we needed them the most. It took me months, possibly more than a year to figure much of this out. And what actually worked...I figured out on my own. The only real help I got was from the alternative side of medicine. So at least I got lucky there. I had one pedi try to scoff at our going to alternative doctors. I fired him on the spot letting him know that NOT ONE other "doctor" in his practice had come close to helping us one iota. If they had been thorough at their jobs, we wouldn't have had to resort to a homeopath for answers. He and his fellow pedis in the practice saw my dd for 15 months straight and had no answers for us. The homeopath had us pegged in one appointment. Now just who is the "quack" in that case? Uggh..it's frustrating to even think about.

Modern medicine is a wonderful thing for acute health issues. But for chronic ones....FORGET it. If they had a clue, there wouldn't be anything "chronic" going on. JMO.