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Taking Communion At New Church And Dh
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50 posts in this topic

purple, I respect your opinion, but differ in mine. Yes, I believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone, in christ alone. But even though the Bible seems to put ALOT of weight on Baptism and confession/repentance also. This is how God "works" our salvation. Not by our "works" . But following the commandment of Christ.

"... baptism now SAVES you not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience..." 1 Peter 3:21

..but this can be a whole new discussion for another topic

I also believe that God has given us certain gifts in this life that help work our faith and help us grow spiritually. (marriage, baptism, communion, etc...) This is not saving ourselves by"works", but following the commandment of our Lord out of love, and desire to please him as a result of that love, and not to save ourselves. But I believe God works his grace and grows our faith through these things. I am Lutheran, and I believe that Christ's body and blood are in the bread and wine. You seem to be of differing belief. So we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. When it comes to communion, here is an example of why I don't agree with "remembrance" theology

I Corinthians 10:16

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ?(AA) The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?<-------well, is it? We can't change the word of God to please our needs.

Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-23

Take, eat; THIS IS my body.<------ No mistake here, ...THIS IS his body....pretty clear there.

The apostle Paul believes this body and blood to be so "real" that he states in I Corinthians 11:27

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord(AC) in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. <---Wonder bread and Welches grape juice bring judgement on us........no, but the TRUE BODY AND BLOOD of Christ.....absolutely

Do I think communion saves us, ...simply, no

Do I think it is more than just a wonder bread and grape juice toast to our good buddy Jesus?.... ABSOLUTELY !

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purple, I respect your opinion, but differ in mine. Yes, I believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone, in christ alone. But even though the Bible seems to put ALOT of weight on Baptism and confession/repentance also. This is how God "works" our salvation. Not by our "works" . But following the commandment of Christ.

"... baptism now SAVES you not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience..." 1 Peter 3:21

..but this can be a whole new discussion for another topic

I also believe that God has given us certain gifts in this life that help work our faith and help us grow spiritually. (marriage, baptism, communion, etc...) This is not saving ourselves by"works", but following the commandment of our Lord out of love, and desire to please him as a result of that love, and not to save ourselves. But I believe God works his grace and grows our faith through these things. I am Lutheran, and I believe that Christ's body and blood are in the bread and wine. You seem to be of differing belief. So we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. When it comes to communion, here is an example of why I don't agree with "remembrance" theology

I Corinthians 10:16

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ?(AA) The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?<-------well, is it? We can't change the word of God to please our needs.

Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-23

Take, eat; THIS IS my body.<------ No mistake here, ...THIS IS his body....pretty clear there.

The apostle Paul believes this body and blood to be so "real" that he states in I Corinthians 11:27

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord(AC) in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. <---Wonder bread and Welches grape juice bring judgement on us........no, but the TRUE BODY AND BLOOD of Christ.....absolutely

Do I think communion saves us, ...simply, no

Do I think it is more than just a wonder bread and grape juice toast to our good buddy Jesus?.... ABSOLUTELY !

Questions for you or anyone...how can the bread and wine be Jesus' actual body and blood when he wasn't dead yet? Sounds symbolic with spiritual significance to me.

Strong's concordance, Greek for communion #2842=koinonia= partnership, participation, social intercourse, benefaction, to communicate, communion, distribution, fellowship (where does it say actual body and blood of our risen Lord?).

1 Corinthians 12 Talks about the "body" of Christ. v.27 says: Now ye are the body of Christ and members in particular. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. (Are we the body of Christ or are we the church? or both?) spiritual implication again.

Luke 22:19 ...this do in remembrance of me. Why did Jesus say that? We are to remember what he did for us at the cross...broken body and poured out blood, for our sins. If we don't take what Jesus did seriously we will be held accountable. Communion is to be serious or it becomes a meaningless, traditional ritual. Unworthy manner.

If Christ's actual body and blood are in the bread and wine then he is being sacrificed over and over.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Is the veil his actual flesh? Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way which he hath consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh...

The passover supper was to be practiced and remembered dating back to Exodus 12. Shown there, as a lamb (and God as a lamb in Genesis 22:8)

Symbolic of later when Jesus is our passover Lamb.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (does that actually say that Jesus is a lamb?)(does that mean you are eating lamb in that wafer? I am not attacking, I am trying to show the spiritual implication)

This is my prayer and I pray it would be everyone elses too:

Luke 24:45

Then opened he (Jesus) their understanding that they might understand the scriptures.

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Purple, I have asked myself these questions before... I once believed as you did, I am not a cradle lutheran. I also would like you to know that I agree with you about not trying to convert each others beliefs or attack. I think that it is great that we can have discussions civilly about the Bible. I actually enjoy it! =)

Here is what took me many years to learn. As I am not easilly "sold" into theology.

"how can the bread and wine be Jesus' actual body and blood when he wasn't dead yet?"

The same way he said "let there be light", and "I am in the father and the father is in me", his word is inerrant. he says it----it is , period

John tells us this.... Chapter 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

You referenced the word communion's definition..... Do a search on biblegateway.com for the word communion in the Bible. You won't find it. This is a human descriptor for a spiritual and Biblical thing. It's man-made definition, 2,000 years later, is meaningless to Christ's words.

You give many scriptural examples of "spiritual implication" in the Bible. While I agree that many of your examples are correct. The references to the last supper in the gospels, are not meant to be interpreted this way in the original Greek text. I have studied this Greek. And not to get too collegiate, here it is in a nut-shell. Matthew (Mt 26:26), Mark (14:22) and Luke (22:19) use exactly the same Greek words for

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Purple, I have asked myself these questions before... I once believed as you did, I am not a cradle lutheran. I also would like you to know that I agree with you about not trying to convert each others beliefs or attack. I think that it is great that we can have discussions civilly about the Bible. I actually enjoy it! =)

Here is what took me many years to learn. As I am not easilly "sold" into theology.

"how can the bread and wine be Jesus' actual body and blood when he wasn't dead yet?"

The same way he said "let there be light", and "I am in the father and the father is in me", his word is inerrant. he says it----it is , period

John tells us this.... Chapter 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

You referenced the word communion's definition..... Do a search on biblegateway.com for the word communion in the Bible. You won't find it. This is a human descriptor for a spiritual and Biblical thing. It's man-made definition, 2,000 years later, is meaningless to Christ's words.

You give many scriptural examples of "spiritual implication" in the Bible. While I agree that many of your examples are correct. The references to the last supper in the gospels, are not meant to be interpreted this way in the original Greek text. I have studied this Greek. And not to get too collegiate, here it is in a nut-shell. Matthew (Mt 26:26), Mark (14:22) and Luke (22:19) use exactly the same Greek words for

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Debmidge. I understand that you are concerned that "the laws of nature" will make me ill. If we were talking about "sneaking a little pizza and beer" now and then, I would absolutely agree with you. You also stated that you understand my faith. I am not totally sure that you do. If God asks us to do something. We should do it with faith that he will protect us. For this is what faith is. Just like my earlier example about Peter stepping out of the boat. Look at David vs Goliath, Daniel in the Lions den, and 100s more. The laws of nature were not a factor. When it comes to natural law vs Gods law. Gods law wins. I don't expect this to make sense to people "in the flesh". (I am not necessarily saying you debmidge, as I do not know your faith, nor is it my buisness. I am just making a general statement. ) hope this explains my position better.

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James tells us the same thing here in Chapter 2. Faith and Deeds

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that

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Purple, I have asked myself these questions before... I once believed as you did, I am not a cradle lutheran. I also would like you to know that I agree with you about not trying to convert each others beliefs or attack. I think that it is great that we can have discussions civilly about the Bible. I actually enjoy it! =)

Here is what took me many years to learn. As I am not easilly "sold" into theology.

"how can the bread and wine be Jesus' actual body and blood when he wasn't dead yet?"

The same way he said "let there be light", and "I am in the father and the father is in me", his word is inerrant. he says it----it is , period

John tells us this.... Chapter 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

You referenced the word communion's definition..... Do a search on biblegateway.com for the word communion in the Bible. You won't find it. This is a human descriptor for a spiritual and Biblical thing. It's man-made definition, 2,000 years later, is meaningless to Christ's words.

You give many scriptural examples of "spiritual implication" in the Bible. While I agree that many of your examples are correct. The references to the last supper in the gospels, are not meant to be interpreted this way in the original Greek text. I have studied this Greek. And not to get too collegiate, here it is in a nut-shell. Matthew (Mt 26:26), Mark (14:22) and Luke (22:19) use exactly the same Greek words for

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purple, I always reference back to the original language, Greek and Hebrew. This is where we can find the original word of God. I agree with you and your reference that the Bible can be lost in translation. This is why I referenced the original Greek for you. I agree with you on the idea that things can be lost in translation. I believe this is what has happened in the lords supper.

As far as the word "communion". There is no Greek word in the original text for this. This is what the English language has "learned" to call it. Go to biblegateway.com ; here u can search every version of the Bible known to man in all languages in one search. Type the word communion and search ALL versions of the Bible for this word. It's simply not there. I assure u that I am not changing the word of God. Purple, that was a cheap shot. I always good evidence from the Bible. I though we were having a civilized, mature conversation here. I would never accuse u of being a heretic for having a different opinion.

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Purple ,,,,,I STAND CORRECTED!!!!!!!! The term communion IS in the bible, I did not select all versions on my search! But I did find some very interesting things. Out of the 19 versions of the bible that I found...4 use the term communion, 15 use blessing or thanks, in the scripture you referenced.

Here they are

I Corinthians 10:16

message version-the cup of blessing

KJV-communion

NIV-thanksgiving

NASB-cup of blessing

Amplified-blessing

Mew Living-Bless/body/blood

ESV-body/blood

contemporary english version-blessing

New KJV-blessing

New century version-blessing

American Standard-communion

young's literal translation-blessing

darby- blessing/communion-both

holman christian standard-blessing

new international-body/blood/thanks

wycliff version-communion/blessing

worldwide english-blessing

NIV-UK-thanksgiving

Today's NIV-thanksgiving

The greek puts it like this

I cointhians 10:16

to pothrion thV eulogiaV o eulogoumen, ouci koinwnia estin tou aimatoV tou cristou; ton arton on klwmen, ouci koinwnia tou swmatoV tou cristou estin;

The word here is koinwnia or koinonia, pronounced (koy-nohn-ee'-ah). 1 Corinthians 10:16 (KJV) use the English word

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This thread is about a person with Celiac Disease receiving or not receiving Communion and what options are available.

Theological discussion are discouraged and Bible Study should not be held on the general forum.

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I started this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you are telling me what I can and can't say. What kind of forum is this??????????

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I started this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you are telling me what I can and can't say. What kind of forum is this??????????

As I stated earlier, theological discussions here are discouraged.

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I am having a mature conversation with adults that I happen to respect. There is no "ugliness" here.

What else is off limits here?....... Abortion, politics, talking bad about communist China!

How childish!

Where is this healthy or right.......

Are you a moderator on this forum?.....

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Are you a moderator on this forum?.....

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These boards are run for specific purposes, by an individual, at his expense. I think that he has the right to make rules and appoint moderators (I am one as well) to monitor them.

This section is titled Dermatitis Herpetiformis and has as its purpose, "Discussions concerning the skin condition associated with celiac disease." This is clearly visible on the home page, as is the subject matter of each of the sections. This site is run to focus on specific areas of interest, and is not a general purpose discussion forum.

The discussion in this thread is no longer about coping with Dermatitis Herpetiformis, and is therefore no longer consistent with the purpose of this forum.

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I'm done ... you win!

I can point you to hundreds of posts where they have "gotten off topic" from gluten. This happens to just one of them. I can't count the amount of times the last post in a 3 page thread has had NOTHING to do with the main topic, or even venture off course a bit. Nothing in this thread is any different. It just happens to be about God. I found it to be a very intriguing thread, and in no way a nuisance on here.

After two years as an advanced community member on this board, I will be canceling my account. I can no longer be a part of a group that only enforces moderation of religion.I will be posting my goodbye to all in one last thread, then I will delete my account in several days, after all have had a chance to read it.

Problem solved...

Brizzo

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I am sorry you feel that way, but this board has rules for a reason.

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brizzo,

I am sorry that you feel that way.

As I mentioned in a Personal Message to you, this membership is made up from people all around the world with various religious beliefs. Therefore, the policy of this site is to refrain from topics such as politics, religion and sex for the obvious reasons. As history will tell, those subjects never end well here (as evident in your most recents posts).

If you still feel compelled to close your membership, you must contact the Administration directly.

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Perhaps you could carry on the conversation in the section about anything except Celiac. While this thread has indeed deviated far from DH, it seems that over in that section you are free to discuss (politely and courteously and within obvious social limits) whatever you want.

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My understanding is that is it ok to mention God on this forum and there is no restriction of such. The problem arises when you start quoting scripture. That is something that can be done in PM's. There are many faiths represented on this board and I've been on other threads within the last two years that haven't gone into studies, that got heated.

We all need to respect that others may believe differently than we do. Even threads for prayer are answered by those who don't necessarily believe in God but will keep the people in their thoughts.

There are also many threads on communion, although I don't remember what section they are in.

Putting on my moderator cap as well. Bible study is not a "safe" topic on an open forum like this. There are other forums out there for that, and I'm sure many of them. There is need of keeping constroversial topics off of a public forum where anyone can read and sign up and join in a fight. If you look at the disallowed topics under the gab/chat section that will give a good idea of "hot", controversial topics.

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My understanding is that is it ok to mention God on this forum and there is no restriction of such. The problem arises when you start quoting scripture. That is something that can be done in PM's. There are many faiths represented on this board and I've been on other threads within the last two years that haven't gone into studies, that got heated.

We all need to respect that others may believe differently than we do. Even threads for prayer are answered by those who don't necessarily believe in God but will keep the people in their thoughts.

There are also many threads on communion, although I don't remember what section they are in.

Putting on my moderator cap as well. Bible study is not a "safe" topic on an open forum like this. There are other forums out there for that, and I'm sure many of them. There is need of keeping constroversial topics off of a public forum where anyone can read and sign up and join in a fight. If you look at the disallowed topics under the gab/chat section that will give a good idea of "hot", controversial topics.

Dear Andrea

I am writing to your "moderator cap": please then show that Bible study/versing/quoting and threads about celiac and communion are against the official rules.

I feel it's unfair to allow the topic (i.e., no written prohibition on it) and then reprimand (OUCH!) the posters after they post "biblical". I've seen so many of these communion threads (I am not offended by it, by the way) but there are many members on this board who are not mature enough to shrug off an opposing opinion. So I respectfully request that the Board rules are changed to include that bible study/quoting verses or discussing bible stuff and communion are against the rules - because that's how this forum really feels about it. This would prevent someone's feelings (the someone being the original poster (like Brizzo) or an immature poster later on - usually it's the usual suspects who find biblical discussions offensive) getting hurt unnecessarily and amending the rules states the Board's position. I am tired of seeing this happen - either allow it and hold your peace or fully prohibit it. It can't be both ways because it makes it look like the Moderators are speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

Additionally, I find the bible postings interesting because it broadens my knowledge base, I try to glean new information/opinions from wherever I can - but then that's just me...also personally I do think that the topics of celiac and communion is relevant and does belong on this forum, but that's for Scott to decide.

Deb

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momagoose, this conversation never got "ugly" until the religious police came in and stopped it. Me and purple may seem to "speak affirmatively" at each other. But she is my Christian sister. I am sure that she will state the same. This was a mature theological discussion that stemmed from gluten in communion. The scriptures/topics listed are what Christians base their decision to take/or not to take communion are based on. Given that info, I feel that we were still on-topic. I am sorry you can not tolerate it. Nowhere in the "board rules" does it state anything about religion/God. If this is a rule, then post it!

Dear Brizzo

Please reconsider and don't leave the forum. Unfortunately, the censorship is an unspoken, unposted rule. Please reconsider because this forum does provide an abundance of information despite this "problem." We need intelligent, strong thinkers like yourself ....send me PM then and let's talk about it.

D.

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I am writing to your "moderator cap": please then show that Bible study/versing/quoting and threads about celiac and communion are against the official rules.

I feel it's unfair to allow the topic (i.e., no written prohibition on it) and then reprimand (OUCH!) the posters after they post "biblical". I've seen so many of these communion threads (I am not offended by it, by the way) but there are many members on this board who are not mature enough to shrug off an opposing opinion. So I respectfully request that the Board rules are changed to include that bible study/quoting verses or discussing bible stuff and communion are against the rules - because that's how this forum really feels about it. This would prevent someone's feelings (the someone being the original poster (like Brizzo) or an immature poster later on - usually it's the usual suspects who find biblical discussions offensive) getting hurt unnecessarily and amending the rules states the Board's position. I am tired of seeing this happen - either allow it and hold your peace or fully prohibit it. It can't be both ways because it makes it look like the Moderators are speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

Deb,

There is not an official rule, it's just that so many topics where bible/religion have gotten hot. I'm personally not against such as I'm a Christian as well. I've taken an attitude of allowing others their belief, even if different than mine. Others aren't that allowing. I know that the communion threads (at least some of them) have gotten heated as well.

For the record Brizzo. What you do about communion is a personal choice. I am one who doesn't partake of the bread. For celiacs that is damaging and even a little can cause more problems down the road.

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Hello Everyone,

The topic here is whether someone ought to take communion if they have celiac disease or gluten sensitivity. The medical answer is no, although anyone can make their own choice and still decide to do this. The Catholic Church has, since 1994, allowed members to use low-gluten hosts for communion. These would be made with wheat starch that is under 200ppm, and would be a much safer choice than a pure wheat host. This would be a safe way to take communion, and the actual letter that addresses this issue can be found here:

http://www.celiac.com/articles/285/1/Celia...nion/Page1.html

Since 1994 most other churches have adopted this idea, and also allow communion hosts made from low gluten wheat starch or other ingredients, so for most people this has become a non-issue. Such hosts can be purchased on-line, for example this one:

http://www.ener-g.com/store/detail.aspx?se...at=15&id=21

although I do believe that the Catholic Church does require that theirs be made from wheat starch.

In any case, anyone is free to go against medical advice and eat a gluten host, or, they could contact their pastor/priest, etc., and discuss this matter and could likely work out a gluten-free or low gluten alternative. Another option for some would be to just do the "blood" or wine only. In any case, since this choice is so personal it likely won't be resolved here.

This topic has been discussed many times on this board, and unfortunately in many cases it has led heated debates and arguments that have led some people to get upset and leave the board. Please try to keep things in perspective and realize that everyone here should be focused on helping each other deal with celiac disease and the gluten-free diet--which is the focus of this board.

Take care,

Scott

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You're welcome! Our faith is to be shared same as our problems. As the body of Christ we are to lift each other up. Just like every person/health is different, so is what we believe. How much our faith grows is depended alot on our trials. This gluten one is a big one b/c we can't see inside. God wants our faith to get to the point of sacrifice as Abraham did with Isaac in Genesis 22. You seem to be there by what you said, however we must never test God, it has to be by faith. Only each person knows where they are at and others can't understand, just like celiacs and non-celiacs. God gives us a measure of faith then grows it. God is good!!! (p.s. I like to ride dirt bikes and 4-wheelers, but I don't say the p___ word even though its in the bible- KJV)

I am new here and hope I am replying correctly. I ,as faithful to my Catholic religion. but respecting other denominations wish to share that we , as another shaired, do accept the taking of the wine as a complete communion. I personally have tried talking the smalled amount of just the host with problems resulting ,and so now only partake of the wine or commune in my heart only, if wine is not served. I hope this helps.

Peace and Serenity,

Tom Smithbrother

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