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Nightly Right Quadrant Pain & Itching/tickling - Mostly In Back


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#1 April in KC

 
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Posted 02 September 2008 - 10:53 AM

For a couple of months, I have been having right-sided pain at night. It seems a little north of where I think my right kidney would be. It radiates through to the front (upper right quadrant) at times, but is mostly felt in back. Nausea is present, but more like a dull nausea from pain than waves of nausea like you're actually going to throw up. At night, I also get tickles on my right side and find myself scratching my right rib cage at times.

Sometimes it hurts during the daytime, but more so at night. I cannot sleep on my right side anymore because I wake up in pain, but even when I sleep on my left or on my back or stomach, it eventually starts hurting.

I wake up in pain every day and have to let the hot shower water run on my back for a while. After about an hour or so of being up and around, I am much better.

Has anyone else had an experience like this?

Night pain is scary - but there are no night sweats, etc. I have seen a couple of docs for this, and I've been praying about it as well...no answers yet.

My gallbladder tests have been fine....besides, I don't think of night pain as a symptom of gallbladder disease.

Thanks for any thoughts - if no one knows/answers, that's okay. I appreciate the community here.

April
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#2 aprilh

 
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Posted 02 September 2008 - 04:21 PM

I was going to say it might be gallbladder pain. Does it ever occur after eating?

Would you say it normally occurs on the right side?

When I was having liver/gallbladder type pains I took Gold Coin Grass and it worked wonders! I highly recommend it.
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#3 trents

 
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Posted 02 September 2008 - 07:22 PM

What gallbladder tests have you had done? The basic sonogram often does not reveal the disease because it will only find stones when stones are not the only cause of gallbladder disease, though the most common. Sometimes there are no stones that block the duct but the gallbladder just sort of dies and loses its ability to eject the bile which then just lays in there. Have you had a "HIDA Scan" done? The pain at night could be due to your eating habits or just a body rythem in your own digestive process.
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#4 April in KC

 
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Posted 02 September 2008 - 08:41 PM

Thanks, both of you. It is definitely right-sided. More localized to the back side than the front, but I occasionally feel it come through to the front, near the center.

Trent, I've had a PIPIDA scan with CCK (similar to HIDA scan), and ultrasound. They said I have normal ejection fraction. I do notice slightly increased pain after larger meals. The nighttime pain is every night. I do agree with you that it could be something about my body's own normal rhythms that makes it a nightly occurrence.

Gold coin grass? I assume that's some type of herbal formula? I will look into it, thanks. Anything that could help give relief and/or a clue about what's going on is great.

I wonder about kidneys...can you have a disease or infection in one kidney only? I don't have painful or frequent urination. Occasionally I have very cloudy urine...but then the next time will be fine. One of the reasons I wonder about kidney is because of how bad it always is in the morning, when I have a full bladder. if I get up and empty my bladder, I don't get instant relief, but usually I can go back to bed and find that the pain is not so bad in 1/2 hour or so.
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#5 trents

 
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Posted 02 September 2008 - 08:46 PM

Could it be something with the right lung or even arthritis in the rib cage?
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#6 irish daveyboy

 
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Posted 02 September 2008 - 10:48 PM

For a couple of months, I have been having right-sided pain at night. It seems a little north of where I think my right kidney would be. It radiates through to the front (upper right quadrant) at times, but is mostly felt in back. Nausea is present, but more like a dull nausea from pain than waves of nausea like you're actually going to throw up. At night, I also get tickles on my right side and find myself scratching my right rib cage at times.

Sometimes it hurts during the daytime, but more so at night. I cannot sleep on my right side anymore because I wake up in pain, but even when I sleep on my left or on my back or stomach, it eventually starts hurting.

I wake up in pain every day and have to let the hot shower water run on my back for a while. After about an hour or so of being up and around, I am much better................................

Thanks for any thoughts - if no one knows/answers, that's okay. I appreciate the community here.

April

.
Hi April,
While scouring the various Medical Journals (as I regularly do) I came across something called RPS
(Refered Pain Syndrome) here's an article to read entitled 'Refered Pain can be a pain in the neck'.
.
Referred Pain: a pain in the neck
.
And here's a diagram of referred pain sites to related health problems.
.
Referred pain diagram Permission has been sought from McGraw-Hill for it's use.
.
This may be helpful, if not to you personally, then for others that are trying to treat a pain without sucess.
.
Best Regards,
David
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Chronically Ill and lost 56lbs in 3 Months Prior to Diagnosis.
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#7 NoGluGirl

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:04 AM

Dear April,
Regardless of the testing being normal, I will bet anything it is your gallbladder! I was only 20 years old when I had mine removed. :( My doctor had an abdominal ultrasound done as well as a HIDA scan. Both did not show anything. Upon doing research, I discovered these tests are only about 33 percent accurate at best! :o

I confronted my doctor with this information, and due to the horrible symptoms, I was finally allowed to see a surgeon. The surgeon said I was a good candidate for surgery due to the symptoms. All of the misery you have is exactly what mine caused. Gallbladder issues are more common in the early morning and late evening hours. I had another doctor before the PCP I just told you about, and she was convinced I was mental, so she completely missed the fact I had a gallstone show up in the abdominal CT when the symptoms increased dramatically. I found out it is the least likely to show gallstones, unless they are low density.

It was a good think I listened to my intuition instead of my parents and doctor, because I found out at my 10-day post-op check-up that my gallbladder was severely inflamed and ready to rupture. Another moron in a labcoat was wrong, what a surprise! :rolleyes: Here is something interesting: for some reason, ginger worsens the reflux and heartburn associated with the gallbladder. This is one way to pinpoint it. My cousin also had his gallbladder removed young, and he was stuffed with stones despite tests showing nothing. The thing is, stones can pass before you get diagnostic procedures done.

Sincerely,
NoGluGirl
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Strawberry Allergy, mold allergy, dustmites allergy, ragweed allergy, dust allergy, food dye allergy - 1985
Asthma - 1994
Ovarian Cyst - May 1999
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Colonoscopy, Endoscopy, Intercolisis, Gastric Emptying Study - May and June 2001 negative biopsy
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Gallbladder Removal - July 28, 2003 after doctor said the tests showed nothing, so it was not gallbladder disease. It was very inflamed and irritated and nearly ruptured the surgeon told me at my 10 day post-op check-up.
Thyroid Disease - August 2004
Celiac Disease - March 2007 Current Dr. refers to me as Celiac, as she says blood tests are often inaccurate.

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#8 April in KC

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 07:46 AM

David - thanks a million for the helpful diagram and article! I have looked for a diagram like that for a long time. The front and back "liver/gallbladder" spots are just right for what's going on with me.



Also, the "stomach" spot in the center of the back corresponds exactly to a delayed reaction I have any time I eat corn. So even though
I avoid corn, that's helpful, too.
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#9 April in KC

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 07:49 AM

Thanks for the extra encouragement to consider gallbladder. I did see a surgeon for a second opinion about a month ago, and he did not feel like I was a good candidate for surgery...thought it was not likely to be gallbladder. Things have changed a bit in a month, though, so perhaps my new symptoms will make it clearer.

I have been running a low-grade fever this week (just 99.3) - but I don't know if it's related. I do feel miserable.
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#10 jerseyangel

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 07:58 AM

April, have you had your liver enzymes checked?
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#11 NoGluGirl

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 06:28 AM

Dear April,
Since the gallbladder is part of the Hepatobialary System, it makes perfect sense with the pain and discomfort being located in that spot. I actually had a doctor who was head of the Gastroenterology and Hepatology miss my gallbladder! :angry: Trust your feelings, and you will not go wrong. What all diagnostics did you have done? Have you had a HIDA scan, abdominal ultrasound, and/or an abdominal CT? Those are the usual tests used. Perhaps an MRI would even be better, considering it sees down to the cellular level.

Have they done bloodwork? :huh: Jerseyangel made an excellent suggestion. Liver problems can cause all of this misery as well. Of course, gallbladder issues will cause trouble with the liver. They all are connected.

Another reason it was so difficult to diagnose my gallbladder issues was due to the fact most cases are acute, and not chronic. Chronic cholecystitis is not near as common as a sudden attack leading to surgery. Surgeons will not operate without proof, though. They only operate when there is no other choice, for the most part. Although many guides about gallbladder disease say the attacks occur most frequently after fattening meals, if it is bad enough, it would not matter. I got to the point I got sick from baby food! :(

Sincerely,
NoGluGirl
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Jin

Strawberry Allergy, mold allergy, dustmites allergy, ragweed allergy, dust allergy, food dye allergy - 1985
Asthma - 1994
Ovarian Cyst - May 1999
Anemia - 2000
4 More Ovarian Cysts - March 2000
Bloodwork for Celiac - November 2000 negative
Colonoscopy, Endoscopy, Intercolisis, Gastric Emptying Study - May and June 2001 negative biopsy
Fibromyalgia - June 2001
IBS - June 2001
Gallbladder Removal - July 28, 2003 after doctor said the tests showed nothing, so it was not gallbladder disease. It was very inflamed and irritated and nearly ruptured the surgeon told me at my 10 day post-op check-up.
Thyroid Disease - August 2004
Celiac Disease - March 2007 Current Dr. refers to me as Celiac, as she says blood tests are often inaccurate.

Official Purple Glittery Bat Keeper, District Attorney, and Chinese Restaurant Owner of The Silver Dragon of Rachelville

#12 April in KC

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 08:26 PM

I have had a PIPIDA scan with CCK (same test as HIDA, different radioactive substance), a abdominal/chest/spinal CT scan and abdominal ultrasound. I had a gastro surgeon re-read the CT, and he gave the opinion that he sees no evidence for removing the gallbladder at this time. I am going to try a low-fat diet for a while, and then challenge with fat. Hopefully that will help me understand if it really is GB.

For labs, I know I have had a CBC and CMP, but I'm not sure if that checks liver enzymes. I know they were checked when I was first diagnosed with celiac in early 2007, and they were a little elevated then.

A realization...the fever is still here today...the weather has changed to rainy and cold, and I am suddenly and definitely having a flare of my arthritis. That explains the fever and the general crummy feelings. I can't tell if the right/back pain is arthritis related...it preceded my flare, so I don't think so. I don't know what type of arthritis I have yet. I have mostly felt it in the MCP joints of my right hand, but the last two flares I have felt it in the left hand and both balls of my feet as well. I'm afraid it's rheumatoid arthritis (I'm 36).

Doc I visited yesterday has a theory the right-sided back pain might be a stress fracture in my back because of osteopenia (due to Celiac). I do have low bone density. He's sending me for a nuclear bone scan to try to find a stress fracture that might not have showed up on the spinal CT.

Thanks again, Jersey and NoGluGirl (and the previous posters). I don't have many people I want to share this part of my life with in real life..I try to stay positive. It's nice to have online support.
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#13 debmidge

 
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 06:23 AM

For a couple of months, I have been having right-sided pain at night. It seems a little north of where I think my right kidney would be. It radiates through to the front (upper right quadrant) at times, but is mostly felt in back. Nausea is present, but more like a dull nausea from pain than waves of nausea like you're actually going to throw up. At night, I also get tickles on my right side and find myself scratching my right rib cage at times.

Sometimes it hurts during the daytime, but more so at night. I cannot sleep on my right side anymore because I wake up in pain, but even when I sleep on my left or on my back or stomach, it eventually starts hurting.

I wake up in pain every day and have to let the hot shower water run on my back for a while. After about an hour or so of being up and around, I am much better.

Has anyone else had an experience like this?

Night pain is scary - but there are no night sweats, etc. I have seen a couple of docs for this, and I've been praying about it as well...no answers yet.

My gallbladder tests have been fine....besides, I don't think of night pain as a symptom of gallbladder disease.

Thanks for any thoughts - if no one knows/answers, that's okay. I appreciate the community here.

April



April

I am going to go out on limb here and say "gallbladder."

I had gallbladder issue and tests were fine. My gallbladder became diseased (almost like appendix). I had pain at night right front, side and back; then it progressed to nausea and gas and diarrhea. Then no appetitte.
No gastro I went to and I went to 3 of them, knew what to make of it...all wanted to do a colonosocpy first. I went to surgeon, he diagnosed diseased gallbaldder (Chronic cholecystitis) - and I had it removed and surgeon's diagnosis was confirmed by biopsy. I felt better about a month or so after the surgery (it took that long for me to recover (everyone is different). But I was very, very ill before the surgery. This was just last summer (07).

Your "itching" makes me think "digestive" such as liver, pancreas and gallbladder area. Did you have ultrasound, CT Scan, etc. or just HIDA scan? My HIDA and ultrasound did not reveal the problem.
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#14 georgie

 
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:17 PM

Have you thought of kidney/adrenals ? Its the night time symptoms that make me wonder. Adrenals start to work through the night so that when you wake you have your highest cortisol for the day.

I have also had gall bladder problems that never showed on scans. Eventually ( after about 15 years of scans) they found gall bladder 'sludge' which apparently is worse than stones. Touch wood but the painful probing she did for the scan seemed to fix the problem for me. Or perhaps the pain got better when Dr said 'next time it happens its an op' :lol:
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#15 April in KC

 
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Posted 08 September 2008 - 10:47 PM

Thanks for the info on adrenals. I have wondered about body processes that change at night.

Well, tomorrow I go for the nuclear bone scan - to see if I have an osteopenia-related fracture in my spine or ribs.

For a few days, I have eaten a pretty low-fat diet to kind of test out the gallbladder theory. But today I've eaten some chocolate, and about 8 hours ago, I ate an Amy's Rice Pasta Mac & Cheese...that has tons of fat...and I am having a "normal" night so far (i.e. no extra pain).
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