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Scd Cures Celiac?


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#1 katrinacara

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 08:13 AM

I've been reading some things about the specific carbohydrate diet on the breakingtheviciouscycle.info website and it states that if you are on the diet for 1-3 years it can completely cure you of celiac? I'm a little skeptical, especially since there are no testimonials to back this up. And I see alot of threads about the diet and how people just started it and what they can and cannot eat...but seriously...does anyone have any proof that this diet actually heals celiac...not colitis and crohns...but celiac disease. I'm getting frustrated by all of the misinformation about this disease. Last I checked there's no cure for celiac...but what the heck...maybe I'm misinformed.

so seriously...don't post about how you've been on the diet for a week or a month and what is legal/illegal to eat. Or if you had/have colitis or crohns... does anyone know someone who was cured as a result of this diet???
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#2 jerseyangel

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 08:18 AM

Hi and welcome :)

The SCD can not and does not cure Celiac Disease. At present, there is no cure, only treatment with the gluten-free diet.

The SCD has been helpful to many who have lingering symptoms despite following the gluten-free diet and others who may have other issues in addition to Celiac.
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Patti


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#3 ravenwoodglass

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 08:19 AM

I've been reading some things about the specific carbohydrate diet on the breakingtheviciouscycle.info website and it states that if you are on the diet for 1-3 years it can completely cure you of celiac? I'm a little skeptical, especially since there are no testimonials to back this up. And I see alot of threads about the diet and how people just started it and what they can and cannot eat...but seriously...does anyone have any proof that this diet actually heals celiac...not colitis and crohns...but celiac disease. I'm getting frustrated by all of the misinformation about this disease. Last I checked there's no cure for celiac...but what the heck...maybe I'm misinformed.

so seriously...don't post about how you've been on the diet for a week or a month and what is legal/illegal to eat. Or if you had/have colitis or crohns... does anyone know someone who was cured as a result of this diet???


This is well horse puckky. Celiac is a genetic disorder. There is no cure for it. The SCD diet may be by nature gluten free. What can happen is that after folks have healed when they reintroduce gluten into their diet the antibody effect can take awhile to show up. In addition celiac is an equal opportunity destroyer for any organ in our body and the presentation when it shows up again may begin with problems with thyroid, gallbladder, bones and muscles, blood, glandular systems, brain etc and it may be a bit before enough damage is done to the intestines for a person to become the recognized daily D person they were before. The period where folks are symptomless is called the honeymoon period and is the reason why doctors used to believe children out grew celiac. Now we know better.
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Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying
"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)


celiac 49 years - Misdiagnosed for 45
Blood tested and repeatedly negative
Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002
Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis
All bold resoved or went into remission with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002
Some residual nerve damage remains as of 2006- this has continued to resolve after eliminating soy in 2007

Mother died of celiac related cancer at 56
Twin brother died as a result of autoimmune liver destruction at age 15

Children 2 with Ulcers, GERD, Depression, , 1 with DH, 1 with severe growth stunting (male adult 5 feet)both finally diagnosed Celiac through blood testing and 1 with endo 6 months after Mom


Positive to Soy and Casien also Aug 2007

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test Aug 2007
HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

#4 ShayFL

 
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Posted 03 September 2008 - 08:20 AM

Celiac is a genetic disease that is triggered by gluten. There is currently no cure for it. Someday there may be genetic therapy.

There is, however, a way to treat and heal Celiac. It is a 100% gluten free diet.

The SCD treats/heals Celiac because it is gluten free. It does not cure it.
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GLUTEN FREE 4/4/08. LEGUME/SOY FREE 5/15/08. YEAST FREE. CORN FREE. GRAIN FREE. DAIRY FREE. I am eating all meats, eggs, veggies, fruits, squash, nuts and seeds. I just keep getting better every day. :)

Do not let any of the advice given here substitute for good medical care. Let this forum be a catalyst for research. Find support for any post in here before you believe it to be true. Arm yourself with knowledge. Let your doctor be your assistant. Listen to their advice, but follow your own instincts as well. Miracles are within your reach. You can heal!

#5 AliB

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 08:38 AM

I too have wondered about this. I often think that the word 'cure' is bandied about maybe a little too flippantly sometimes, however, I do think that the Specific Carbohydrate Diet can be an effective management for things like Celiac, especially where just avoiding gluten is not the answer to other health issues.

Yes it works for Celiac because it removes gluten from the diet, but for many it is not that simple. Dr Haas treated Celiacs 80-odd years ago, by removing carbohydrates in general. Some have found that by doing that, consuming a good wholesome unprocessed diet and by supplementing with good probiotic yogurt to replenish the depleted good gut flora, their digestive system has healed and is then functioning well enough for them to be able to cope with food in general, sometimes even gluten, which may mean that their initial diagnosis was incorrect.

Most on here probably know by now that I believe that a lot of our 'Western' health issues are due to rogue bacteria and/or parasite activity and that if we can get the digestion functioning correctly and the body in a position where it can properly deal with 'insurgents' and toxins, that many of our diseases will disappear.

Certainly many with health issues other than Celiac, even so-called 'auto-immune' conditions like Rheumatoid Arthritis, for instance, have found that adopting the SCD has brought them relief and a reversal of the condition. On the SCD thread in the Other Food Intolerance and Leaky Gut Issues section there is a poster who has been on the diet for around a year and has restored her health - her diagnosis of Biplolar has been reversed and other health issues have gone.

If it takes eating a good wholesome unprocessed diet to achieve that, then it does beg the question as to whether a lot of our illnesses aren't actually triggered by our 'Western' diet that generally is carbohydrate-laden and often full of 'empty' calories, putting our gut flora out of balance and allowing rogues to flourish. If RA can be triggered and oppositely reversed by what kind of diet is consumed then why not other auto-immune conditions, like Celiac?

If you analyse it against the diet of communities that do not suffer our diseases the diet is vastly different. They consume a lot more fresh meat, fish, poultry and vegetables, raw milk, yogurt and other fermented foods and have a far less sedentary lifestyle.
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Ali - 50 - struggled with what I now know to be GI symptoms and poor carb digestion for at least 35 years! Diabetic type II (1997). Mother undx Celiac - lifelong diabetic Type 1 & anemic (plus 1 stillborn and 10 miscarriages after me). Father definitely very GI.

Stopped gluten & dairy, Jan 08, but still other issues so dropped most carbs and sugar and have been following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) since March 08. Recovery slow but steady and I can now eat a much broader range of foods especially raw which are good for my digestion and boost my energy level.

Not getting better? Try the SCD - it might just change your life.........

#6 kbtoyssni

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 01:27 PM

Certainly many with health issues other than Celiac, even so-called 'auto-immune' conditions like Rheumatoid Arthritis, for instance, have found that adopting the SCD has brought them relief and a reversal of the condition. On the SCD thread in the Other Food Intolerance and Leaky Gut Issues section there is a poster who has been on the diet for around a year and has restored her health - her diagnosis of Biplolar has been reversed and other health issues have gone.


It's interesting that you talk about a reversal of the condition. Celiac causes villi damage, but all it takes to "reverse" that and to get the villi to heal again is to go gluten-free. (And obviously one must stay gluten-free to keep this reversed, back-to-normal state). With other autoimmune diseases, is there an easy way to "reverse" the damage already caused? What is the treatment for things like RA? Drugs (which isn't really a good solution - a "cure" in the context of this thread)? And does the SCD just lessen symptoms or truly reverse the damage?
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Gluten-Free since September 15, 2005.
Peanut-Free since July 2006.

#7 ShayFL

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 01:52 PM

A good friend of mine has RA. She did the drugs for a few years, but had to quit because she was gaining SO much weight and it was starting to affect her liver. She has been off the drugs now for about 4 months and says she stays pain free by avoiding nightshades and grains.
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GLUTEN FREE 4/4/08. LEGUME/SOY FREE 5/15/08. YEAST FREE. CORN FREE. GRAIN FREE. DAIRY FREE. I am eating all meats, eggs, veggies, fruits, squash, nuts and seeds. I just keep getting better every day. :)

Do not let any of the advice given here substitute for good medical care. Let this forum be a catalyst for research. Find support for any post in here before you believe it to be true. Arm yourself with knowledge. Let your doctor be your assistant. Listen to their advice, but follow your own instincts as well. Miracles are within your reach. You can heal!

#8 elye

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 02:11 PM

With other autoimmune diseases, is there an easy way to "reverse" the damage already caused?


Well, I sure wish there was for type one diabetes, but unfortunately, my pancreatic beta cells are destroyed for good. No elimination diet's gonna bring them back for me...... .. . <_< :(
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Emily

diagnosed type one diabetic 1973
diagnosed celiac winter 2005
diagnosed hypothyroid spring 2006

But healthy and happy! Posted Image


11 year-old Son had negative blood panel, but went on gluten-free diet of his own volition to see if his concentration would improve, his temper abate, and his energy level would increase. Miraculous response!

The great are great only because we are on our knees.
--Pierre Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865)

#9 ShayFL

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 02:16 PM

That is true Emily, but a big change in diet can help manage it much better. Switching from a "carbohydrate" burning metabolism to a "fat" burning system really helps a lot. Then you dont rely on insulin so much.
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GLUTEN FREE 4/4/08. LEGUME/SOY FREE 5/15/08. YEAST FREE. CORN FREE. GRAIN FREE. DAIRY FREE. I am eating all meats, eggs, veggies, fruits, squash, nuts and seeds. I just keep getting better every day. :)

Do not let any of the advice given here substitute for good medical care. Let this forum be a catalyst for research. Find support for any post in here before you believe it to be true. Arm yourself with knowledge. Let your doctor be your assistant. Listen to their advice, but follow your own instincts as well. Miracles are within your reach. You can heal!

#10 elye

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 04:26 PM

That is true Emily, but a big change in diet can help manage it much better. Switching from a "carbohydrate" burning metabolism to a "fat" burning system really helps a lot. Then you dont rely on insulin so much.


Yep, absolutely! The gluten-free diet has made my tight control truly pristine...fewer carbohydrates generally, and very little processed carbs specifically, does wonders for blood sugar control......which means less insulin, and that's always a good thing. Celiac disease, in a funny way, can be the best thing that can happen to a type one! :)
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Emily

diagnosed type one diabetic 1973
diagnosed celiac winter 2005
diagnosed hypothyroid spring 2006

But healthy and happy! Posted Image


11 year-old Son had negative blood panel, but went on gluten-free diet of his own volition to see if his concentration would improve, his temper abate, and his energy level would increase. Miraculous response!

The great are great only because we are on our knees.
--Pierre Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865)

#11 zero

 
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Posted 04 September 2008 - 06:08 PM

Well, I sure wish there was for type one diabetes, but unfortunately, my pancreatic beta cells are destroyed for good. No elimination diet's gonna bring them back for me...... .. . <_< :(


You might find this Science Friday podcast interesting as it suggests there is hope that there may be a treatment for type 1 diabetes someday.

http://www.sciencefr...hives/200808291

rob
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Diagnosed Celiac May 2008

#12 AliB

 
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Posted 05 September 2008 - 03:57 PM

I'm what is generally considered to be a type 2 (although I have alternative feelings about that - I do wonder if types 1 and 2 aren't simply different progressions of the same disease. Some enter it rapidly, others more slowly, anyway, whatever, I too am on insulin) (My Mum was type 1, my Dad type 2, as was his mother, and as is his eldest sister and younger brother - think I was pretty doomed!).

I have always, long even before I became diabetic, had a problem with carbs and always did better on a low-carb diet. I only had to LOOK at a chocolate eclair and I would put on about 10lbs!

On the SCD my sugar control is wonderful. I used to be on around 2 x 25 units a day with metformin. Now I take around 2 x 12 or less and even when I forget, my blood sugar stays pretty low. I also take Vitabase Blood Sugar Formula which has also been a great help.

Just gluten-free on its own is not always helpful for diabetics as many gluten-free foods are VERY high in carbohydrates and calories. That is where the SCD is a winner, cutting out grains and starches, sugars and dairy helps the body burn fat.

Why can the SCD not be a diet for 'life'? Why not eat good wholesome food for the rest of your life and help your body regain its vitality? If we spend our lives eating 'dead' food then how can we expect to have a live, vibrant body? We have got used to stuffing our guts full of 'dead' food. We are surrounded by it. Everyone else eats it. The shops and stores are full of it.....but it is killing us. Yes, in this system it is difficult, if not impossible to find absolutely pure unadulterated food but with a little effort we can do a lot better than the rubbish that passes for food generally.

If you want any 'proof' or testimonials about the SCD, just read the (up to today) 204 reviews of the 'Breaking the Vicious cycle' book on amazon. com! Most books get 5, or 10 reviews or maybe 30 if they are good but 204! (170 of them are 5-star!)

Celiac causes villi damage, but all it takes to "reverse" that and to get the villi to heal again is to go gluten-free.


I kind of take issue with that statement. It is not Celiac that causes the damage. The damage is linked to the ingestion of gluten. Why it is a problem is still not fully understood (well, the scientists may think they know this week, but next week it will be something else!). Trying to understand it is like trying to catch the wind. Yes, people who have gut damage are often diagnosed as Celiac, but conversely there are people out there with gut damage who are not Celiac. There are also people out there with no gut damage at all who have been diagnosed as Celiac. Whilst everyone who has consistently high blood sugar is diagnosed as diabetic, not everyone with gut damage will be diagnosed as Celiac, and not everyone who is diagnosed as Celiac will have gut damage. Well, there's a conundrum.

The list of health issues associated with Celiac is also endless. Whilst I am convinced that the doctor's suspicion that my Mum was Celiac was almost certainly correct, and her 'symptoms' were 'typical' of 'Celiac' disease, they were also vastly different to the array of other 'typical' symptoms associated with the disease. Unlike most other 'auto-immune' diseases, 'Celiac' is so difficult to pinpoint because the 'symptoms' are not structured.

RA is joint pain and stiffness. MS involves the destruction of the myelin sheath. ME/CFS generates extreme fatigue and weakness. Diabetes leads to the destruction of the pancreatic cells or insulin resistance. Addison's concerns a collapse of the Adrenals. Graves is a thyroid malfunction. Sjogrens, a breakdown of the exocrine glands. Etc., etc., etc.

In virtually every other disease there is an obvious symptoms or set of. What sets Celiac apart? Why is it so different and hard to pinpoint and diagnose?

So eating foods containing gluten causes problems for people with an inability to digest it properly. But eating foods containing dairy also causes problems for people who have an inability to digest it properly. Eating foods containing soy causes problems for those with an inability to digest it properly. There are many different foods that cause people problems. Those people do not have a 'label'.

What if those of us who have problems with foods have an inability to digest those certain foods, or part of them because of poor gut function. And what if that poor gut function is due to a lack of good gut flora and a proliferation of rogue bacteria or even just a general imbalance of gut flora?

There has been evidence of some who have reversed Diabetes on a raw food diet, and also a very non-vegetarian diet. Even type 1. I honestly believe that most things can be reversed if we eat extremely healthily. The word 'reversed' suggests that you can go back. To go back you need to have been going forward. What if many of us have been going forward in the wrong direction? What if our genetic weaknesses are pulled out by the poor diet that is accepted as the norm?

I have mentioned before about certain previously healthy communities who become sick and start to degenerate into our western diseases when they start to adopt the western lifestyle and diet. Maybe they were previously healthy because they ate a healthy diet? Maybe, the change into the carb-laden western diet exposed their genetic weaknesses - there all along but kept under control by their healthy diet.
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Ali - 50 - struggled with what I now know to be GI symptoms and poor carb digestion for at least 35 years! Diabetic type II (1997). Mother undx Celiac - lifelong diabetic Type 1 & anemic (plus 1 stillborn and 10 miscarriages after me). Father definitely very GI.

Stopped gluten & dairy, Jan 08, but still other issues so dropped most carbs and sugar and have been following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) since March 08. Recovery slow but steady and I can now eat a much broader range of foods especially raw which are good for my digestion and boost my energy level.

Not getting better? Try the SCD - it might just change your life.........

#13 Larapiz

 
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Posted 06 September 2008 - 11:03 AM

This is well horse puckky. Celiac is a genetic disorder. There is no cure for it. The SCD diet may be by nature gluten free. What can happen is that after folks have healed when they reintroduce gluten into their diet the antibody effect can take awhile to show up.


Well, it has an environmental component too. A lot of people really come down sick with it right after they've been through a lot of emotional stress. This happened to me. After a really painful breakup I started getting generally sick all over, my joints hurting, etc. I think having these health problems might be related to my abusive parents too. It would be interesting if someone could find out what kinds of health problems people who were abused come down with. I used to go to abuse survivor support groups and there were a lot of sick people.
For manic depression, I've read that the identical twin correlation is 70%, that means if one identical twin is manic depressive, 70% of the time the other one is. For chronic schizophrenia, that's like 50%. I wonder what it is for celiac disease - but I doubt it's 100%!
Somebody emailed me once telling me that she had started eating gluten again among other foods, and was doing fine ... She was old, and it makes me wonder, if somebody's immune system is declining with age, are they perhaps less liable to start up the celiac autoimmune reaction?
I think a bit of fuzziness around the "it's genetic" statement is called for, that's all. Especially for people who don't have it very severely.
I think what things like the SCD and paleolithic diet do for people is, if you don't want to go through the pain of elimination diet and food challenges, a lot of allergenic foods are eliminated on those diets, so people feel better on them.
Laura
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#14 pele

 
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 08:22 PM

Wow, lots of response to this question!

I can only give my personal opinion and experience.

I do not believe SCD cures celiac, and have never heard of anyone who claims it did cure them. I think it helps heal a damaged gut. I also think it gets all of that toxic processed food out of the diet. No soy, corn, wheat, rice or sugar eliminates almost all processed food with more than 2-3 ingredients on the label.

I started the SCD because after 13 months of gluten free living I still had debilitating fatigue and unpredictable gut problems. I am well into month six on the SCD and the longer I do it, the better I like it. My energy level is gradually increasing and my digestion has improved dramatically.

It feels like a natural way for humans to eat if you can get past some of the goofy details and the religious-like tone of some of the writing.

I wonder if I ever would have become gluten intolerant if I hadn't been living on wheat and dairy most of my adult life.

There is a new cat food on the market called "ancestral diet". I like that term. I may quit the SCD someday and start my own ancestral diet.
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Gluten free 3/07 self diagnosed
Specific Carbohydrate Diet 4/08--yes, it works.

#15 mftnchn

 
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:00 PM

It's interesting that you talk about a reversal of the condition. Celiac causes villi damage, but all it takes to "reverse" that and to get the villi to heal again is to go gluten-free. (And obviously one must stay gluten-free to keep this reversed, back-to-normal state). With other autoimmune diseases, is there an easy way to "reverse" the damage already caused? What is the treatment for things like RA? Drugs (which isn't really a good solution - a "cure" in the context of this thread)? And does the SCD just lessen symptoms or truly reverse the damage?

In the book BTVC, the author does use the word "cure" but it is an unfortunate choice. In the context it is pretty clear that it means to clear up all the symptoms.

Also, I think that gluten-free only to restore villi damage is a simplistic understanding (not for you, but I mean in general in the scientific community) because it seems to work for many but not all. I was just reading an article in Scott's newletter from Winter 2003 on healing. After 2 years gluten-free there is still only a certain percentage of ability to produce enzymes in the villi. Lactase is only 55%!! The other carb enzymes are a little better but not near 100%. And I am sure that among us we would have a range of healing so that many of us would be lower than the average and some better, etc.

The SCD addresses this particular reason for continued symptoms--removing foods that we still don't have the enzymes to digest.
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4/2007 Positive IGA, TTG Enterolab results, with severe malabsorption: Two DQ2 celiac genes--highest possible risk.

gluten-free since 4/22/07; SF since 7/07; 3/08 & 7/08 high sugar levels in stool (i.e. cannot break down carbs) digestive enzymes for carbs didn't help; 7/18/08 started SCD as prescribed by my physician (MD).

10/2000 dx LYME disease; 2008 clinical dx CELIAC; Other: hypothyroid, allergies, dupuytrens, high mercury levels




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