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How Much Gluten Is In Whole Wheat Bread?
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It dawned on me today; my son's symptoms really started up the 2nd day of Kindergarten. He's a picky eater so takes his lunch. His lunch has been P&J sandwiches pretty much daily. This summer, he ate a much varied diet; some days he would have wheat bread (cinnamon toast), sandwich, etc. other days none. My son LOVES fresh fruit so usually he doesn't eat a lot of carbs outside of chicken nuggets or candy.

Is something like whole wheat bread the worst food someone with celiac could eat? If my son is diagnosed with this, I'll definately need a copy of the Celiac Diet for Dummies book. To think my original college major was nutrition :o .

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i have no scientific answer for you but i can tell you that i had a near immediate reaction one day (before i was diagnosed) to the turkey sandwich on RYE bread that i had for lunch. compared to my usual PBJ on white, which usually took at least an hour to get me running for the bathroom. coincidence? who knows? ironic? kinda.

now i don't know which bread has more "gluten" but it seemed like i was way more sensitive to rye than plain white bread. i never ate wheat bread so i wouldn't know to compare that.

does anyone in your family have celiac disease? the best thing you can do is keep feeding him "regular" foods and get him tested. the tests will be inaccurate if he stops consuming gluten. Make sure the doctor runs a full celiac panel. i don't know exactly what to ask for but i'm sure someone will chime in.

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Any bread containing wheat, rye, barley is going to have too much gluten for someone sensitive to it.

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It dawned on me today; my son's symptoms really started up the 2nd day of Kindergarten. He's a picky eater so takes his lunch. His lunch has been P&J sandwiches pretty much daily. This summer, he ate a much varied diet; some days he would have wheat bread (cinnamon toast), sandwich, etc. other days none. My son LOVES fresh fruit so usually he doesn't eat a lot of carbs outside of chicken nuggets or candy.

Is something like whole wheat bread the worst food someone with celiac could eat? If my son is diagnosed with this, I'll definately need a copy of the Celiac Diet for Dummies book. To think my original college major was nutrition :o .

The following is just my opinion. Take from it what you like, or not.

This is the Celiac.com forum. Not the joke question forum. Celiacs can't eat wheat bread. Whole wheat bread. White wheat bread. Any kind of bread containing wheat flour. It's not a matter of how much gluten. All kinds of non gluten-free bread have the same amount of gluten. Too much. Any amount of gluten is prohibited.

You need to do some research on Celiac disease if you suspect your son has Celiac disease. This site has all the info you need. Check out the Celiac disease info link at the top of the page.

First off, don't put him on a gluten-free diet until he is tested. Then get him tested. Real tests. From a knowledgeable gastroenterologist. Not some quack. That usually involves blood tests, then an endoscopy. From the biopsies a definitive diagnosis can usually be made. To be put on a strict gluten-free diet for life requires ironclad evidence.

best regards, lm

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Umm, I don't think she's being funny or facetious. I think she's asking a real question. As far as I know, gluten isn't measured like carbs or protein. There aren't any gram counts or anything. I guess for scientific purposes they measure-like parts per million. But you won't find it on any gluten containing product. Some products contain more than others I'm sure because I use to ADD GLUTEN to some of the breads I baked before I was diagnosed. :rolleyes:

I see you are waiting to find out if your son is diagnosed. There is alot to learn but you can do it.

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larry mac . . . Melissa isn't trying to be funny . . . I was reading her other thread. She's in the middle of testing and just trying to figure out why her son's symptoms are worse on Fridays. An accumulation of bread from his school lunches?? I haven't heard of that . . . although, I will say that both of my children had intolerances to food dyes and that did seem to "accumulate" but it was over a short (24 hour?) period of time. If my son had a little red dye here and there, no big deal. However, if he had a lot of red dye within a day's time he would get a rash. It happened when he was on medication . . . red tylenol every 4 hours with red liquid sudafed every four hours with red cough syrup blah, blah, blah. Now I buy dye-free (it tastes the same).

It does beg the question . . . is there something different about his lunch on Fridays? . . . some special treat at school on Fridays?

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It dawned on me today; my son's symptoms really started up the 2nd day of Kindergarten. He's a picky eater so takes his lunch. His lunch has been P&J sandwiches pretty much daily. This summer, he ate a much varied diet; some days he would have wheat bread (cinnamon toast), sandwich, etc. other days none. My son LOVES fresh fruit so usually he doesn't eat a lot of carbs outside of chicken nuggets or candy.

Is something like whole wheat bread the worst food someone with celiac could eat? If my son is diagnosed with this, I'll definately need a copy of the Celiac Diet for Dummies book. To think my original college major was nutrition :o .

Hi Melissa,

So I think from your post that you are just figuring out that your son may have gluten issues. Is your son in the process of being formally tested and diagnosed? If so, then wheat bread might be the best thing to feed him until his testing is complete. If your instinct turns out to be true you'll find plenty of great info and support here.

Take care,

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So I think from your post that you are just figuring out that your son may have gluten issues. Is your son in the process of being formally tested and diagnosed? If so, then wheat bread might be the best thing to feed him until his testing is complete. If your instinct turns out to be true you'll find plenty of great info and support here.

They did a blood test while he was in the hospital (the best children's hospital in Austin); we are waiting on those results.

First off, don't put him on a gluten-free diet until he is tested. Then get him tested. Real tests. From a knowledgeable gastroenterologist. Not some quack. That usually involves blood tests, then an endoscopy. From the biopsies a definitive diagnosis can usually be made. To be put on a strict gluten-free diet for life requires ironclad evidence.

He's being treated by a pediatric gastro doc; from what I've researched he's listed in the "America Best Doctors" book. I am fully aware that he'll need a biopsy to confirm the diagnosis if the test results show Celiac as a possibility.

larry mac . . . Melissa isn't trying to be funny . . . I was reading her other thread. She's in the middle of testing and just trying to figure out why her son's symptoms are worse on Fridays.

Exactly-- I am trying to figure out the trigger. I was instructed not to change his diet but I did remove him from lactose because I think his intestines need time to heal. We do NOT know what is causing his symptoms but based upon his tiny/short stature, slow weight gain, distended belly, and current symptoms the pediatric gastro doc suspects Celiac. I do NOT like seeing my child suffer from tummy aches. He spent most of the day with a warm compress on his belly. He has diarrhea that is getting worse (loose stools to water diarrhea). While we are waiting on test results, I'm trying to figure out what he can eat that will keep him from being so ill (thus the question about wheat bread and gluten). I don't want him to end up back in the hospital due to dehydration.

I have already started researching Celiac so that I'm prepared to ask questions and prepared to take action if he is diagnosed. This forum was given to me as a referral from another parent of a Celiac child. I apologize if my question has come across as "joking".

Janet, I'll check out the link--- thanks!

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I didnt take it as a joke at all. Not everyone understands food. Some dont even know what gluten is. Why would you if you were not a baker or a celiac?? You just eat food if you have no problems. Until I went gluten-free, I didnt know what manioc was. And I have a Phd in Holistic Nutrition. Lack of knowledge does not make a person any less intelligent, nor does it mean they are joking when they ask a question. I read it as her just seeking knowledge.

I sure hope you figure out what it is soon. :(

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Melissa,

Unfortunately, sometimes people on this board act in less than supportive ways. Your post did not come across as joking.

When you get in your sons results (bloodwork), ask for a copy. Post the Celiac tests performed, the result, and the reference range.

Let us know what we can do to help. Even if the tests are negative, and your doctors look for other issues, it may be worth it to do a gluten free 'trial' and see if it helps alleviate his symptoms.

Good luck, and I hope you find the much needed answers you need.

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When you get in your sons results (bloodwork), ask for a copy. Post the Celiac tests performed, the result, and the reference range.

Let us know what we can do to help. Even if the tests are negative, and your doctors look for other issues, it may be worth it to do a gluten free 'trial' and see if it helps alleviate his symptoms.

I'll definately post the results and ask for a copy; surely the doc has them for tomorrow's appointment. If it's negative, I do intend to do a trial for a few weeks without gluten to see how his body reacts. Most likely will wait until after his birthday party though (next weekend).

Right now the little guy is sitting on the couch eating Lucky Charms out of the box (Dad let him have them). Praying this doesn't upset his tummy. The only cereal he's eaten since being in the hospital is Rice Crispies.

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Melissa - FYI, Rice Krispies aren't gluten free. They have barley malt in them.

If he ends up going gluten free, don't worry, there are gluten free specialty brand of Rice Krispies.

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Happygirl, that's why I seriously would need the Celiac for Dummies book; I just looked for flour/wheat and figured they were likely not going to bother him.

Got some results for the blood test-- TTG=zero, TGA was within normal limits. I was told the doctor will go thruogh the results with us tomorrow and discuss next steps.

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Melissa, Let us know what the doctor has to say. Ask if the total IgA test was run, also.

If he gets diagnosed with Celiac or you decide to try the diet, we will teach you how to read labels like a pro. No worries. But, no need to overwhelm you with info now - focus on the appointment tomorrow, and let us know how it goes.

Good luck!

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Celiac test was negative! TTG was zero. We are re-testing at a different lab, but it looks unlikely it's Celiac.

We are pursuing other possible food issues like dairy and fructose. He's getting the RAST test and we are doing an elimination experiment next week. He's also starting up on probiotics twice/day.

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Happygirl, that's why I seriously would need the Celiac for Dummies book; I just looked for flour/wheat and figured they were likely not going to bother him.

Got some results for the blood test-- TTG=zero, TGA was within normal limits. I was told the doctor will go thruogh the results with us tomorrow and discuss next steps.

We managed to replace everything my son ate with gluten-free replacements any help with covering the 4 fund groups of a kid let me know:

chicken nuggets

mac and cheese

Peanut Butter and Jelly

Pizza

It is much harder to cope with this as parent then being the patient, we took my son to every doctor and ending up going to DuPonts chidrens hospital then to the gastro at Childrens hospital of Philly, have them suggest nutritionists.

I am still struggling with it today!

If you have a Whole Food's and Tradder Joes around you will be fine!

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See if you can get the NUMBERS from the blood tests.

They should have run 5 tests, including IgA, IgG, total IgA, and TtG.

If ANY of them were above 0, that is NOT within normal limits, no matter what the lab or doc say.

Another thing--many doctors believe that an endoscopy is no longer necessary to diagnose celiac. This is because it can only diagnose celiac at the "end stage," where villi damage is obvious. And in small children, both blood tests and biopsies have a high false negative rate--which means that they'll TELL you that he doesn't have celiac, when he might have it, just not with enough damage to test positive.

Many here have done a trial diet, and found that even though they were told that they didn't have celiac, their symptoms disappeared without gluten. Others experienced some symptoms diminishing, but not all, so had to keep looking for answers.

Whether or not your child has celiac, you'll need to research, and learn what does and doesn't have gluten, not wheat, if you want to rule out celiac for sure.

Things to look for in labels BESIDES WHEAT/FLOUR:

barley malt

malt

wheat starch

malt syrup

bread crumbs

rye

oats (some celiacs CAN handle oats, some can't)

matzoh meal

cracker meal

crisp rice (usually contains barley malt)

Most brands of soy sauce are made with wheat.

Many chip brands also contain wheat. And if a label says "whole grains,' it almost always has wheat!

Products that have gluten that you wouldn't suspect:

deli tuna salad (contains bread crumbs)

rotisserie chicken (usually marinated in soy sauce)

Many ice creams ("lite" ones are thickened with wheat starch, and cookie dough flavors have, well, cookie dough!)

Welcome aboard, and good luck!

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HI!!

Don't relay on the tests for kids. My baby would not have made it had I continued to follow the drs advise and orders. I cancelled all medical appointments for two months, put her on a strict fruit, plain meat, and veggie diet and went back with a detailed food diary recording everything from bms (I took picts on some just for verification :o ), to attitude, temp, sleeping habits, amount of liquids, food intake, you name it. (I had one prediet too)

The change was DRAMATIC! Dramatic in the sense that the ped came in and said I don't know what you've done but don't stop it. Her growth was incredible. I showed her the journal - she all ready had detailed journal from before and she said that was enough to convince her the child could not handle wheat, rye, barley, oats whatever we called it. Our official dx is now wheat/gluten intolerance with Pre-Celiac condition since the allergist is adament that she does not have any kind of wheat allergy including Igg or the new intestional allergy and the ped gi is adament that he can't dx her with Celiac's until she has a positive biopsy. We keep going every couple of months for checks and as long as we don't slip up, she's good all the way around. We've now ventured into gluten free grains and have added some small amounts of dairy back into the diet without any trouble. (though after learning about dairy, we'll never included that again as a regular in our diet!)

And funny thing is malt is every bit as bad of a reaction as wheat. Rice Kripsies are puffed cereal of doom and destruction around here. You just don't know how many friends have made those from scratch to offer us to eat and are surprised when I say we can't have it. Think projectile vomiting just from the other end. FOR DAYS. I have nightmares about Rice Krispies and Cheerios. :D

Good luck and remember the tests aren't neccessarily the end all.

Stacie

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It dawned on me today; my son's symptoms really started up the 2nd day of Kindergarten. He's a picky eater so takes his lunch. His lunch has been P&J sandwiches pretty much daily. This summer, he ate a much varied diet; some days he would have wheat bread (cinnamon toast), sandwich, etc. other days none. My son LOVES fresh fruit so usually he doesn't eat a lot of carbs outside of chicken nuggets or candy.

Is something like whole wheat bread the worst food someone with celiac could eat? If my son is diagnosed with this, I'll definately need a copy of the Celiac Diet for Dummies book. To think my original college major was nutrition :o .

Hey, I know this is an old post but I had the same questions.... and no, I'm not joking.... I actually found an answer on wikipedia which says that whole wheat is made from red wheat which has a higher gluten content than the soft white wheat variety used to make white wheat bread. I definitely notice a huge difference in severity and quickness of symptoms when I eat whole wheat as compared to white wheat bread. Check out the wikipedia article for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_wheat_flour

btw, I believe that forums like this one are for people to help each other find answers, not to take any opportunity to degrade others or otherwise use other people as stepping stones to make yourself feel better. Let's try to all help each other instead of feasting off of others temporary lack of knowledge while they search for answers to improve their lives.

'nuf said...

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I have a bit to add to this old topic as well... while I don't know the exact quantities of gluten in different kinds of bread, I do know that the denser, whole grain breads have far more gluten. Cake flour as a very tiny amount of gluten due to the processing it goes through to make sure that the cake winds up light and fluffy. It would make sense that using whole-wheat flours or breads would cause more of a reaction than highly processed/blanched/bleached/generally nutrient-devoid breads.

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    • Thanks Stephanie & Gemini for the info. that the 4 of 5 doesn't apply to children. I wasn't aware of that until now. 
    • I think the posters above have given you very good information and I will throw in my 2 cents worth.  I am surprised that they did not test her DGP IgA also.  I am sure that would have been positive.  They switched off with antibody classes and usually they do both tests for both antibodies.  IgA is more specific to Celiac but the IgG is also useful.  The testing shows your daughter is producing antibodies to the gluten in her diet. (DGP IGG). THe tTg shows positive for some damage or inflammation. You know........your daughter is only 4.  She hasn't been on the planet or eating gluten that long. It can take years for enough damage to occur for it to be able to be found on biopsy.  I would say it is highly likely that this is Celiac, especially with her symptoms. But because the damage hasn't graduated to bad enough yet, they won't diagnose her. I think you need to do what others have said and get all copies of testing and find someone else who will take a look and give a diagnosis, especially if they have you do a dietary trial and her symptoms go away.  That might be the only recourse if you want faster proof. I know I would want faster.  I would not really be happy if I thought I had to keep feeding her something that was making her sick.  If you keep her on gluten long enough, the diarrhea will probably show up. BTW.........the criteria mentioned regarding diagnosis does not apply to kids.  I know it's silly and stupid but most leading Celiac specialists do not go by this criteria for kids.......adults only.  Keep that in mind because it might come up.  You could recognize it but they might not. Have you considered gene testing, to help bolster a diagnosis? As far as false positives go, it's the other way around. False negatives happen more frequently than many people think.  It's a recurring theme here.  With her symptoms, which is what I had, a bloated belly and tummy aches are telling.  Have they tested her for lactose intolerance?  That can cause similar symptoms, although it sure won't raise those 2 blood tests.  Keep looking for Celiac because there are many red flags here.
    • This 4 out of 5 criteria does not apply to children. I was never given a reason why, but it isn't.     That said, you may try to get a second opinion from another GI who may be willing to give her a firm dx.  We were in your boat 6 years ago and while I'm sure I'll get slammed for it, I wish we had kept gluten in our kiddos diet till he scoped positive for a variety of reasons.  Again, even family is different and you have to find what is best for you!
    • Mnoosh, I had swollen lymph nodes prior to celiac dx and for a while after going gluten free. My neck as well as groin. The groin ones were the worst. Guess what? All gone! It's hard to recall a time line & consider that everyone is different but I think mine completely resolved within a year.  You've been given great information. Just breathe and then again, breathe. You're going to be fine. 
    • It is the only thing you have eaten, so it can't be anything else?  I eat it with no issues so I am not sure how you can be certain that is the problem.  All I am saying is that its sort of "your word against mine and the company's word".  
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