Jump to content

Follow Us:  Twitter Facebook RSS Feed            




   arrowShare this page:
   

   Get email alerts  Subscribe to FREE Celiac.com email alerts

 
Ads by Google:
Celiac.com Sponsor:                                    


Photo
- - - - -

More About Dr. Kenneth Fine


  • Please log in to reply

244 replies to this topic

#211 psawyer

 
psawyer

    Moderator

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,049 posts
 

Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:54 AM

As a mod, you can certainly remove anybody's posts with which you disagree, but to be fair, you really can't have it both ways. If you don't want anyone discussing your issues, don't mention them--and if you're going to remove others' posts discussing your issues, you ought to remove your own as well.

For the record, the removal of posts in this thread was not done by Rachel. That was my action, and Rachel had no input into selecting which posts were removed. Since only Scott can actually delete a post, and he has not done so (yet), I can assure everybody that Rachel has not made any posts in this thread disappear.
  • 0
Peter
Diagnosis by biopsy of practically non-existent villi; gluten-free since July 2000.
Type 1 (autoimmune) diabetes diagnosed in March 1986
Markham, Ontario (borders on Toronto)

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator

Celiac.com Sponsor:

#212 Fiddle-Faddle

 
Fiddle-Faddle

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,159 posts
 

Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:22 AM

In total I have met ZERO doctors who use his test....and I have seen MANY doctors.


A colleague of mine was recently "diagnosed" by Enterolab, and followed up with a mainstream doctor who considered it, along with his symptoms and dietary response to be a firm diagnosis.

I have heard similar stories from many across the country. You may have seen MANY doctors, but I'd say your experience is pretty narrow.
  • 0

#213 Fiddle-Faddle

 
Fiddle-Faddle

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,159 posts
 

Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:23 AM

For the record, the removal of posts in this thread was not done by Rachel. That was my action, and Rachel had no input into selecting which posts were removed. Since only Scott can actually delete a post, and he has not done so (yet), I can assure everybody that Rachel has not made any posts in this thread disappear.


Sorry, Peter, my bad!
  • 0

#214 lbd

 
lbd

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
 

Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:34 AM

Poor Dr. Fine - I wonder if he knows he creates such controversy! :D

As far as his not eating at an event, can you blame him? How many of us have been glutened at such things? Also, he is Jewish, so there is a possibility that he keeps kosher which is pretty hard to do at any public event.

I guess time will tell whether or not his tests will be accepted by mainstream medicine (or many people). My guess, based on some of the research that indicates gluten antibodies are found in intestinal mucosa, is that it will. Or maybe not, since mainstream medicine loves to find "cures" in the form of expensive drugs that have all sorts of other side effects and makes big money for big drug companies. Enterolab's tests and admonitions to avoid gluten foods will seem cheap in comparison to the drugs that apparently several companies are testing now to allow gluten intolerant people to eat gluten. I, for one, would rather just not eat gluten.
  • 0

#215 Rachel--24

 
Rachel--24

    Advanced Community Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,323 posts
 

Posted 01 December 2008 - 12:09 PM

Unfortunately, Rachel, your issues are bound up in this thread's discussion of Dr. Fine because you are using them as "proof" that Dr. Fine's tests are invalid. That is why I quoted you in my previous post. That is also why so many are arguing with you on this thread.


Actually it was other members who brought up my issues....and not me. This can be confirmed by reviewing the posts.

I have never stated that the fact that I eat gluten without having problems is *proof* of anything. I said that we do not know how valid his test is. ....and I also said that in my case I dont seem to have a problem with it.

I have problems with other foods....and for the most part I understand why that is... as well as what it is that I'm reacting to. Its my body.....and I've been paying close attention to what it tells me.

I dont really see why anyone should be arguing with me about what I eat. If you truelly cared wouldnt you just be happy that I'm feeling better and doing much better than I was a couple years ago? Remember that I was on the diet for 3 years....and nothing changed as far gluten-free making a difference in my condition.

There are other diets I have tried which have proven to more beneficial for me...and I could actually see HUGE improvements in all areas of my health.

My goal is to restore my health.....and thats the bottom line. I dont do things that cause me to go backwards....I only wish to move forward.

I am not the only one on this thread who has found that the diet didnt make a difference one way or the other. I am not the only one on this thread who decided to go back to eating gluten. I am not the only one here who is skeptical of Dr. Fine's stool test based on personal experience. So why on earth do some people feel the need to make my diet into a much bigger issue than it really is??

None of this in my opinion is a valid excuse/reason to argue with me on this thread.
  • 0
Rachel

#216 Fiddle-Faddle

 
Fiddle-Faddle

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,159 posts
 

Posted 01 December 2008 - 12:14 PM

Actually it was other members who brought up my issues....and not me. This can be confirmed by reviewing the posts.


I'm afraid it can't be confirmed, as 21 posts were removed from the thread.

You say you really want the discussion of your issues to stop, but you are actively continuing the argument. Is it your wish that we read your arguments and NOT respond?

As I keep saying, you can't have it both ways.
  • 0

#217 mamabear

 
mamabear

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 279 posts
 

Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:42 PM

Poor Dr. Fine - I wonder if he knows he creates such controversy! :D

As far as his not eating at an event, can you blame him? How many of us have been glutened at such things? Also, he is Jewish, so there is a possibility that he keeps kosher which is pretty hard to do at any public event.

I guess time will tell whether or not his tests will be accepted by mainstream medicine (or many people). My guess, based on some of the research that indicates gluten antibodies are found in intestinal mucosa, is that it will. Or maybe not, since mainstream medicine loves to find "cures" in the form of expensive drugs that have all sorts of other side effects and makes big money for big drug companies. Enterolab's tests and admonitions to avoid gluten foods will seem cheap in comparison to the drugs that apparently several companies are testing now to allow gluten intolerant people to eat gluten. I, for one, would rather just not eat gluten.


When I met him in Memphis, he stated he did not have celiac disease, but ate a restricted diet of mostly nuts and grains...kind of a pre-Paleolithic type diet. That was 3+ years ago, so something could have changed since then......never said it was Kosher either.
  • 0
Iron deficiency without anemia, unexplained weight loss 2/2003
Positive celiac biopsy 4/2003
Autoimmune thyroiditis 8/2005

Gluten Free Since 2003

#218 Fiddle-Faddle

 
Fiddle-Faddle

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,159 posts
 

Posted 02 December 2008 - 04:52 AM

When I met him in Memphis, he stated he did not have celiac disease, but ate a restricted diet of mostly nuts and grains...kind of a pre-Paleolithic type diet. That was 3+ years ago, so something could have changed since then......never said it was Kosher either.


A nut-and-grain diet would automatically be Kosher even if you weren't trying to be Kosher, as by definition it would eliminate all non-Kosher foods (non-Kosher meats, non-fish seafood, non-Kosher fish (bottom feeders), and meat-and-milk combinations).
  • 0

#219 Jestgar

 
Jestgar

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,755 posts
 

Posted 02 December 2008 - 05:30 AM

You can get anything published somewhere. Having your results in print does not make them any more, or less, valid. If doctor Fine had wished to publish, he could have done it any time. It would only make his testing procedures more valid to people who have no idea about the structure of scientific publishing. Unless he were to choose a top tier journal. it would not validate his testing to any physician.
  • 0
"But then, in all honesty, if scientists don't play god, who will?"
- James Watson

My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating.
- Ashleigh Brilliant

Leap, and the net will appear.

#220 Gentleheart

 
Gentleheart

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 361 posts
 

Posted 02 December 2008 - 11:53 AM

I think a lot of people may have given up on this thread :(.

How about a new thread entitled "Group letter to Dr. Fine."



If you think there is honestly enough interest and that it is useful enough to pursue, then to quote a famous captain.......

"Make it so."

:)
  • 0

#221 psawyer

 
psawyer

    Moderator

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,049 posts
 

Posted 02 December 2008 - 11:58 AM

If you think there is honestly enough interest and that it is useful enough to pursue, then to quote a famous captain.......

"Make it so."

:)

I shall take the sub-topic about the letter(s) and make them into a new thread.

Click here to reach the new thread in this forum.
  • 0
Peter
Diagnosis by biopsy of practically non-existent villi; gluten-free since July 2000.
Type 1 (autoimmune) diabetes diagnosed in March 1986
Markham, Ontario (borders on Toronto)

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator

#222 Mellyelli

 
Mellyelli

    New Community Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
 

Posted 04 December 2008 - 11:15 AM

I originally came onto this board hoping that I could get a little more clarification regarding my Enterolab results. I came across this thread and now have a whole lot more to think about.
I am in Canada, and my doctor suggested I have the Enterolab testing done as he suspected a wheat allergy. He told me that he felt that Dr. Fine's testing "is ahead of the curve...so to speak" and felt his work could be trusted. He also mentioned that his lab was a not for profit organization, not that this makes it any more credible, but just interesting that nobody has mentioned it.

So I am off to post as a new topic.....hoping that I can get a little more clarification, as the people on this board seem well versed in "test result" language. My doctor did got through the results with me, but I would still love to hear what other people have to say.
  • 0

#223 Gentleheart

 
Gentleheart

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 361 posts
 

Posted 04 December 2008 - 01:11 PM

I originally came onto this board hoping that I could get a little more clarification regarding my Enterolab results. I came across this thread and now have a whole lot more to think about.
I am in Canada, and my doctor suggested I have the Enterolab testing done as he suspected a wheat allergy. He told me that he felt that Dr. Fine's testing "is ahead of the curve...so to speak" and felt his work could be trusted. He also mentioned that his lab was a not for profit organization, not that this makes it any more credible, but just interesting that nobody has mentioned it.

So I am off to post as a new topic.....hoping that I can get a little more clarification, as the people on this board seem well versed in "test result" language. My doctor did got through the results with me, but I would still love to hear what other people have to say.



Although this thread started out innocently enough, it kind of got off topic along the way and sometimes sparked a lot of passion in the wrong direction. Most of us have subsequently left it in lieu of a "fresher" thread concerning plans to send Dr. Fine a nice group letter to try to clear up some of the confusion about Enterolab and its tests.

But I would also like to stress this. Many, many people on this board have gotten fantastic results from going on gluten free diets based soley on Dr. Fine's test results. They feel very blessed by his work. And yes, his lab is actually a not for profit organization. Dr. Fine is likely a fine individual, completely dedicated to helping people like us. And most people here who have met or heard him in person, felt he was brilliant. He and his staff have always been very kind to me. The real controversy with Dr. Fine is that some of us have NOT gotten good results with gluten free diets after receiving very positive test results from Enterolab and desperately need clarification as to why, if he has any ideas on the matter. Dr. Fine has also repeatedly promised people for many years that he was "just about to publish" his research. But it never happens and has unfortunately made some strongly wonder about his credibility as a result. That's all. We all would probably agree that we hope he IS right. We hope his tests ARE accurate. We just have many unanswered questions.

You are very fortunate to have a medical professional who recognizes the value of research like Dr. Fine's. Most of our doctors will not even look at it and our frustrations sometimes show up on these controversial threads.

Welcome aboard. :)

Check us out on the other one.
  • 0

#224 JNBunnie1

 
JNBunnie1

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,326 posts
 

Posted 09 December 2008 - 08:53 AM

I'm curious about something. The issue (real issue, I personally don't care what Rachel eats) here is whether or not Dr Fine's testing method is valid.

Ok. 3 questions for you all.

1. Has anyone on here gotten a NEGATIVE response from Enterolabs? I'm sure there's someone on the board who's savvy enough to find someone.

2. We are a race of people who stoned someone for saying the earth is round. There will ALWAYS be someone to denounce new ideas. Period. Why get so mad when it happens? This thread isn't going to discourage anyone who's looking for answers, and Dr Fine clearly doesn't need you protecting him. It might discourage new people from talking to us......

3. Don't you think it's interesting that we've attracted the attention of an EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGIST (lbd) who clearly knows their stuff and noones saying 'Ooo ooo, here's someone who can help us now!'?



Ok I lied. 4th question: Since when was 'peer-reviewed' ANYTHING worth crap? Isn't that what got all those people killed on Vioxx?

I haven't used Enterolab, so I'm not really invested in anything to do with Dr Fine. But most of this bickering just doesn't make sense.
  • 0
If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill

#225 Rachel--24

 
Rachel--24

    Advanced Community Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,323 posts
 

Posted 09 December 2008 - 05:02 PM

1. Has anyone on here gotten a NEGATIVE response from Enterolabs? I'm sure there's someone on the board who's savvy enough to find someone.


Many people have gotten negative results from Enterolab. Some of them have symptoms (which may or may not resolve on the diet)....some have no symptoms at all.

Its the same with those who have had positives....some have symptoms (which may or may not resolve on the diet)....and some have no symptoms at all.

I think that a much higher percentage do get positive test results from Enterolab.

and thank you for not caring about what I eat! :)
  • 0
Rachel




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Celiac.com Sponsors: