About "natural Flavors"

[mr. moore]

if a product has natural flavors, would it immediaty mention if it has MSG or glutamate in it? or gluten for that matter? i read that msg is hidden very well, and in words ike "natural flavors". could it be hiding in my ketchup, my monster energy drink, or my dad's pomegranate drink i took a sip from? sorry i keep asking so many questions. thanks.

[Lisa]

If an ingredient is not one of the eight allergens required by law to be listed, anything can hide in "natural flavors". There is no way to know, unless you contact the company.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

If you haven't already, the internet is full of information on MSG. Here are a few.

[mr. moore]

after reading this thing on van gough and how he saw the world, and how it was related to what he ingested (lead? absinthe? whatever?), i think im pretty close to finding out something about why i always feel this way. i always have very watery vision, like it's always a little blurry like you don't know if what your seeing is real, which has definitely made me question my "sanity". and i always have a pressure in my head, and it's like i can hear certain things no one notices, like the tv on or a foot tapping and i can't help but focus on it. also i can't sleep without white noise. conversation is very painful, usually. it's why i stick at home so much because i get so irritated by the STOP and GO of voices, and find that i like unknowingy repeat sounds and certain tones over and over again, totally missing what we were talking about. and sometimes (alot lately) when im alone in my room i feel like imthe only person left on the planet, and it happens alot when im with people. i just CANT describe how i feel, and its so frusterating! (it won't let me FUKING cuss)

whats really weird is a few days ago at the mall with a friend i had chinese food. 15 minutes later, everything gets blurry and it's like my vision pulls back, i start to feel tired, and get all these OCD thoughts in my head. ill just force myself to go along with whatever my friends re sayng and hope they don't question me, because im just GONE. like i have mentally left the building. usually i start looking around and notice people are eyeing me and start scratching my head and laughing compulsivly. its pretty daily too, i can hardly focus on any task at hand, which is why all my jobs have been bagging or pushing carts.

also when i was a kid i had a piece of processed cheese then proceeded to destroy half our little house.

could i be either crazy (i need confirmation daily from my mom that im not) or is it really something i eat? like msg?

[purple]

There can be msg and gluten in Chinese food or chicken broth, etc. You are not crazy but your body is not right. Have you ever tried a good natural health doctor? If you find a good one they can tell you things that an md may never diagnose. You might check into it. Its more expensive up front but may save you much money, time and health in the long run.

Years ago they locked up people they thought were crazy...maybe they just ate the wrong thing and it caused havoc to their body...weird huh?

Keep learning and asking lots of questions. You will get better when your system straightens out. You will feel like a new person and the people around you will then believe you.

Most of the people on here are smarter then docs!!!

[ShayFL]

I know immediately when I've had MSG.....My brain gets a "buzzy" feeling and the world seems a bit surreal for about 10 minutes. That doesnt last long. If I got a big enoiugh dose a headache follows within a few hours.

"Natural Flavor" is a big source of hidden "MSG". Like I pick up a bottle of pear "essence" water with 3 ingredients: water, essence of pear and natural flavor. If it has the pear then why does it need anything more? Because without the MSG it would taste bland and flat. MSG can make a dog turd taste good, but it isnt healthy at all. I avoid it as much as humanly possible. I generally only get it now if I eat out (on rare occasions).

The only restaurants that I have found that dont use it are HIGH END $$$.

[mr. moore]

I know immediately when I've had MSG.....My brain gets a "buzzy" feeling and the world seems a bit surreal for about 10 minutes. That doesnt last long. If I got a big enoiugh dose a headache follows within a few hours.

"Natural Flavor" is a big source of hidden "MSG". Like I pick up a bottle of pear "essence" water with 3 ingredients: water, essence of pear and natural flavor. If it has the pear then why does it need anything more? Because without the MSG it would taste bland and flat. MSG can make a dog turd taste good, but it isnt healthy at all. I avoid it as much as humanly possible. I generally only get it now if I eat out (on rare occasions).

The only restaurants that I have found that dont use it are HIGH END $$$.

all natural flavors? if thats true i just had ketchup and it has natural flavors. this is gonna be tough! lol. are there any fast food places that wouldn't have msg in it?

[ShayFL]

You cannot make a blanket statement like "all" because the FDA doesnt monitor what goes into "natural flavor". Honestly ANYTHING can be in it. But in general, yes, it has some form of MSG. Like "yeast extract", "autolyzed yeast", "flavorings", etc. They generally do. MSG is a flavor enhancer. Any bland yucky food can be made to taste good with it. This is why you find it in SO many places with hidden names.

Fast food without MSG.....not likely. Try Chipotle. They are probably o.k.

[rinne]

Mr. Moore, do you know how to cook? I am sure you could get some help here with some recipes.

[sbj]

are there any fast food places that wouldn't have msg in it?

Pei Wei Asian Diner has a gluten-free menu and they do not add MSG.

[RollingAlong]

Mr. Moore, have you tried the Failsafe diet? I am prepping to try it. There are several Yahoo discussion/support groups or see the Plant Poisons and Rotten Stuff forum.

[lizard00]

Jason's Deli is MSG free and most recently, all of their food items are free of high fructose corn syrup. They are working on the soda fountain dilemma...

HOWEVER... check their website for their allergen menu, as they have gluten in some things you wouldn't necessarily think. (Well, I didn't anyway)

[RollingAlong]

Does this include the soups at Jasons? When I checked last year, the ingredient list had "chicken base" and I couldn't get any info beyond that as to the exact compostion of "base." I had not even heard of gluten at that time, but I read labels carefully for migraine triggers.

Chicken "base" almost certainly has some sort of glutamate in it. But if Jason't has changed, than that is big news.

Jason's Deli is MSG free and most recently, all of their food items are free of high fructose corn syrup. They are working on the soda fountain dilemma...

HOWEVER... check their website for their allergen menu, as they have gluten in some things you wouldn't necessarily think. (Well, I didn't anyway)

[lizard00]

Check out their website. Their restaurants say msg free. It's still on their menu, but nothing appears to have it.

Open Original Shared Link

[mr. moore]

Mr. Moore, have you tried the Failsafe diet? I am prepping to try it. There are several Yahoo discussion/support groups or see the Plant Poisons and Rotten Stuff forum.

never heard of it but ill try it!

[Rachel--24]

There are alot of products that are labled "No MSG"....however, plenty of free glutamate can still be found in the ingedient list. Its another thing where you have to know which ingredients are actually hidden sources of MSG (and the list is quite long). "No MSG" simply means that monosodium glutamate wasnt directly added into the product.....but there are sometimes 3 or 4 other ingredients that would indicate the product contains plenty.

The body doesnt differenciate between monosodium glutamate and free glutamate....its all the same. By not putting MSG directly into the product companies avoid having to put it on the label.....and most people arent aware that many of the ingredients in the foods they are eating are actually sources of MSG.

If you are trying to avoid MSG....dont assume that "No MSG" means that the product is totally free of it....alot of times it isnt.

Mr. Moore,

I would highly recommend the Failsafe diet that was previously mentioned. I think you will probably benefit from following this type of diet. I've been mostly Failsafe for about 3 years now with amazing results......for me it was the only diet that really made a big difference. Its not easy but worth it if you're having reactions to a variety of foods, preservatives, additives, etc.

[mr. moore]

There are alot of products that are labled "No MSG"....however, plenty of free glutamate can still be found in the ingedient list. Its another thing where you have to know which ingredients are actually hidden sources of MSG (and the list is quite long). "No MSG" simply means that monosodium glutamate wasnt directly added into the product.....but there are sometimes 3 or 4 other ingredients that would indicate the product contains plenty.

The body doesnt differenciate between monosodium glutamate and free glutamate....its all the same. By not putting MSG directly into the product companies avoid having to put it on the label.....and most people arent aware that many of the ingredients in the foods they are eating are actually sources of MSG.

If you are trying to avoid MSG....dont assume that "No MSG" means that the product is totally free of it....alot of times it isnt.

Mr. Moore,

I would highly recommend the Failsafe diet that was previously mentioned. I think you will probably benefit from following this type of diet. I've been mostly Failsafe for about 3 years now with amazing results......for me it was the only diet that really made a big difference. Its not easy but worth it if you're having reactions to a variety of foods, preservatives, additives, etc.

thanks but that sounds basically impossible. i mean everyone in my family is like "EVENTUALLY your gonna eat something with msg" its very hard especially when you eat out with family and just cause something on a menu has no msg doesn't mean it doesn't have like "autolyzed protein" or something. btw does everything with yeast in it have that glutamate stuff? so basically bread of any kind is outta the question?

[mr. moore]

i read there is a pill that blocks glutamate where can i buy that?

[Rachel--24]

btw does everything with yeast in it have that glutamate stuff? so basically bread of any kind is outta the question?

yeast does not contain MSG....."autolyzed yeast" does.

To autolyze yeast, for example, yeast is subject to processing; and during that processing, protein is broken down, and glutamic acid is freed. The finished autolyzed yeast product will, therefore, always contain processed free glutamic acid (MSG) as a constituent of the autolyzed yeast. The MSG will not have been poured into the autolyzed yeast. Rather, the MSG will have been processed into the autolyzed yeast.

There are many sites that list the ingredients that always contain MSG....and the ingredients which often contain MSG.

Yeast extract can also mean that MSG is in the product.

[Rachel--24]

i read there is a pill that blocks glutamate where can i buy that?

I dont know of any glutamate blocker you can buy at the store. These would be drugs prescribed by a doctor for certain conditions (like seizures).

[RollingAlong]

I haven't heard of a pill that blocks glutamate.

Some people stay on the Failsafe diet indefintely and some people use it temporarily as a way to determine if their problems are amines or salicylates (or both) and where their tolerance level lies. This varies widely from person to person and even seasonally, perhaps due to sunlight and exercise variation?

From what I've read, some people's ability to tolerate some foods improves on this diet and they eliminate others that they hadn't suspected. Just to give an example, some peoples carbohydrate tolerance improves, but they eat less aged meats. They still eat meat, but not aged or canned or smoked, just for example. It varies so much from one person to the next...

From what I've read, it is not an impossible diet (although it is not easy) and is definitely worth checking out. You may find that you can eat glutamates of various sorts, just not every day. Or that you tolerate them better in the morning, etc... Or that you would be better off restricting indulgences to the weekends so you have time to recover before work on Monday!

You're in distress now and from your description, this sounds like a tool that may be able to help you.

[mr. moore]

is most deli meat ok? we went to kroger and i was so tired i have been avoiding so many foods mostly cause they all have some msg! and i need to 100% eliminate it then reintroduce stuff. i got this turkey that is honey glazed, its not prepackaged i watched her cut it. and i bought this big bread you have to cut yourself since all the other ones had malted barley or dextrose. there was this huge list of things not to have and man it's tough. but if i manage to make the day my eyes start to feel less pressurized and sunlight and colors kind of normal out. im VERY determined as you can see!

[mr. moore]

ok something bad happened today: i had a glass of milk (with something called acidopholus) this bread that seemed fine with this honey turkey and provolone cheese. an hour later im at target with my parents and i feel tired and my brain feels all fuzzy, like my brain just floated away and i was just a body. im thinking that when turkey says "NO MSG!" on it, i guess it can still hide. cause the bread was all natural. the milk was different though. anyways twice i had to leave the building and just cry, i felt so confused and out of touch with what is going on around me, i had this fuzzy feeling in my eyes like i knew what i was seeing was real but it was percieved unreal. anyways it was a terrible time and im gonna try that fail safe diet. i swear once i get better im gonna party non stop because im just effin miserable!

[RollingAlong]

I don't know, Mr.Moore, but I think it is possible that it could be any or all of those 3 items (turkey, milk (ultra-pasturized?), bread) depending on how they were prepared. I don't know enough about it to tell you for sure. I do know that Boar's Head brand has no MSG.

I think you would find the Sue Dengate book, Fed Up, which explains the Failsafe diet, to be helpful. Don't be put off by the fact that it is written for kids, you're just getting a late start Seriously though, I recognize myself and especially my sister in these pages...

Here's the Dengate website Open Original Shared Link

Here's the Plant Poisons website that also explains the diet; there are food lists here showing amine and salicylate content. Open Original Shared Link

Your improvement from avoiding MSG is a very good sign. Read as much as you can about the diet, join one or more of the Failsafe groups so you can get some knowledgeable input (all I can do for you is basically encouragement), keep reading those labels, and you may want to start a journal to record food intake reactions.

[mr. moore]

but im not just obsessing on something that won't help am i? ive done that for the past 6 months. im surprised i don't have gray hair

[RollingAlong]

I can only comment based on your description of your symptoms. I've read the symptom list for Food Chemical Intolerance because I'm planning to try the diet myself. I think the diet is worth your time and effort, and Rachel, who has tried the diet successfully, thinks it is worth your time and effort.

You've already seen some improvement when you've successfully avoided MSG. You've also seen that it can be difficult to avoid not just MDG but food chemicals that behave like MSG. The Failsafe diet gives you a structured way to do this so you can get meaningful results from avoiding various foods and hopefully get answers more quickly and with less frustration.

Here's the symptom list from the Plant Poisons website:

Food Chemical Intolerance Symptoms

Below is a list of symptoms that can be caused by intolerance to salicylates, amines, glutamates and additives. A few notes:

Different individuals experience:

different types of symptoms

different numbers of symptoms

different strengths of symptoms

The same individual may experience different symptoms and sensitivity levels:

over the course of a lifetime

to different food chemicals

to the same food chemicals depending on:

quantity

hormones

blood sugar levels

nutritional status

the presence of other food chemicals

other extraneous factors

Food chemical intolerance:

tends to run in families

can come from nowhere

is often present from birth

can appear suddenly in childhood or adulthood

can appear after a physical trauma like an illness, a hospital stay, a change in diet, the use of pharmacological or recreational drugs including aspirin, or the ingestion of additives or toxins

can appear after a strong emotional trauma like the loss of a job or a home, a divorce, or a bereavement

Some of these symptoms can be caused by other, unrelated factors. They are not always caused by this set of food chemicals, or even always by food. Sometimes some of these symptoms can be caused by nutritional deficiencies, infections, allergies, other substances in food, or can be caused by physical or emotional stressors. Sometimes they can be caused by an underlying illness, like jaundice, anaemia, or liver or kidney disease or damage, or by genetics.

It is rare that someone with food chemical intolerances experiences ALL of these symptoms. The symptoms should be assessed as a whole and used as guidance to determine if there might be a problem and how great the problem is. The more symptoms, and the stronger the symptoms, the more important food chemicals may be to the health problems of the individual. On this basis the individual should assess whether they should embark on the elimination diet trial.

Overt Aspirin Sensitivity, Salicylate Sensitivity

Samter's Triad

Reye's Syndrome

Babies and Small Children

Colic

Cries often

Grizzly or unhappy

Won't feed

Hyperactivity

Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDD)

Tantrums

Underweight

Central Nervous System

Agitation

Brain fog

Confusion

Dizziness

Dysaesthesia (numbness)

Epileptic seizures

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Myalgic Encephalitis (ME), Fibromyalgia (FMS), Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome

Hangover feeling

Hyperacusis (abnormally acute hearing)

Hypersensitivity, hyposensitivity

Paraesthesia (pins and needles)

Sensory symptoms of multiple sclerosis

Symptoms of lupus

Coordination

Accident prone

Clumsy

Dyspraxia

Poor handwriting

Endocrine System

Diabetes, Reactive hypoglycaemia, carbohydrate intolerance

Inexplicable weight gain or weight loss

Poor appetite regulation, always hungry, can't eat

Premenstrual tension/syndrome (PMT/PMS)

Sex hormone imbalances, oestrogen dominance/progesterone deficiency symptoms

Symptoms of adrenal fatigue, don't feel awake until evening

Thyroid problems, symptoms of hypothyroid or hyperthyroid

Water retention

Food and Weight Problems

Anorexia, bulimia, can't or won't eat, appetite regulation problems

Chinese restaurant syndrome (MSG reactions)

Food cravings

Hangovers from food/eating out

Hunger after eating

Nausea after eating

Hypoglycaemia before or after eating

Picky eating, hates/loves vegetables/meat/cheese, supertaster

Never full or satisfied, grazing

Strange reactions to foods

Strong like/dislike of alcohol

Constant thirst

Salt cravings

Symptoms worsen after eating, or before eating

Tiredness After Eating

Weight Gain, Weight Loss

Gastrointestinal

Bloating

Coeliac (celiac) disease (in combination with gluten)

Colic in babies

Colitis

Constipation, sluggish bowel (incomplete evacuation)

Diarrhoea (diarrhea), soiling

Dysbiosis, either pseudo-dysbiosis or actual dysbiosis

Hunger after eating

Nausea after eating

Indigestion, GERD, gas, acid reflux, stomach ulcers, h. pylori infections

Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)

Stomach aches

Vomiting

Genitourinary

Bed wetting (enuresis)

Incontinence

Urinary urgency

Recurrent cystitis, urinary tract infections, bladder infections

Recurrent or chronic candidiasis or fungal/bacterial infections, jock itch

Sore vagina in little girls and adult women

Head, Eyes, Ears, Nose, Throat

Allergic shiners (dark circles under eyes)

Angioedema (swollen lips, eyes, tongue

Blurred vision, poor vision

Itchy eyes

Ear aches, especially chronic ear infections in children

Ear, nose and throat infections

Catarrh

Bad breath (halitosis)

Frog in the throat

Frequent headaches, migraines

Frequent nose bleeds

Frequent sneezing and nose blowing

Frequent mouth ulcers

Geographic tongue (glossitis)

Nasal polyps

Nystagmus (involuntary ticcing of the eyes)

Otis externa

Sinusitis

Stuffy, blocked, or runny nose

Tinnitus

Tonsillitis

Heart

Angina-type pain

Cardiac arrhythmias

Heart palpitations

Prinzmetal's angina (salicylate induced variant angina)

Pseudo heart attack (feeling of impending doom, chest pressure, pain down arm)

Rapid heart beat, tachycardia

Immune System

Autoimmune disorders

Arthritis

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Myalgic Encephalitis (ME), Fibromyalgia (FMS), Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome

Depressed immune system, frequent infections

Frequent candida, yeast infections

Frequent ear infections, ear aches, otis externa

Frequent mouth ulcers

Frequent skin infections, eczema, dermatitis, psoriasis

Frequent urinary tract infections

Lupus symptoms

Multiple sclerosis symptoms

Overactive immune system, frequent/multiple allergies, anaphylaxis

Memory

Can't concentrate

Disorganised

Easily distracted

Forgetful

Impaired memory

Unmotivated

Untidy

Vague

Won't persevere

Moods and Emotions

Depression, mood swings, bipolar disorder, manic depression, discontented, unsatisfied, emotional

Disruptive, naughty, troublemaking

Excessive anger

Grizzly or unhappy baby, child cries often

Irritable, touchy, short fuse, bad temper, snappy

Morbid imagination, imagining violent scenarios

Panic attacks, anxiety

Resentful, blaming others

Unreasonable, demanding

Self harm

Suicidal thoughts, visions, actions

Musculoskeletal

Arthritis

Back pain (upper and lower back), chronic back problems

Growing pains

Low muscle tone

Myalgia (muscle pain)

Tics (involuntary movement), tremor

Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDD)

Asperger's Syndrome

Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), hyperactivity, nervous energy, fidgety

Autism, comorbid autism spectrum disorders

Dyscalculia, dyslexia

Dyspraxia

Epilepsy, seizures

Head banging

Learning difficulties

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)

Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD)

Picky eating

Sensory Integration Dysfunction (SID), Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD)

Speech delay

Speech disorders, speech impediments, stuttering

Tic disorders, Tourette's Syndrome

Skin

Angioedema

Allergic shiners (dark circles under eyes)

Body odour

Cradle cap

Dermatitis

Eczema

Flushing

Hives

Pallor

Pruritis (itching)

Psoriasis

Rashes

Rosacea

Seborrhea

Sweating

Urticaria

Sleep

Insomnia

Nightmares

Night terrors

Night waking

"Noise" in head

Overactive brain

Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS)

Sleepwalking

Speech

Loud/quiet voice (no volume control)

Hard to understand, mumbles, speaks quickly, lazy pronunciation

Repetitive noises

Selective mutism

Silly noises

Speech delay

Stuttering

Talks too much (empty chatter)

Vascular and Pulmonary System

Arrhythmia

Asthma

Fast or shallow breathing

Feeling cold or hot

Headaches, migraines

High blood pressure, low blood pressure

Reynaud's Syndrome

Rosacea

Syncope, fainting, dizziness

Varicose veins

Vascular spasm