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Leaky Gut Causes Gluten Intolerance?


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31 replies to this topic

#1 Yoekie

 
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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:36 AM

I have had digestive problems since a food poisoning 9 years ago. After an endoscopy, which showed no abnormalities, I assumed I had ibs. I had a blood test done and it showed intolerances for egg, lactose and gluten. This doctor (specialised in nutririon) drew the conclusion (?) that I have a leaky gut. He claims the food posoining might have damaged my bowls causes all sorts of things to get right through it in my blood so that my body reacts allergic to a lot of things (including food and medication).

His others tests showed a serotonine overproduction and a serious lack of iron (and anemia), which he relates to this 'leaky gut syndrom'. According to him, my body is allergic to gluten-lactose-egg because of this syndrom and not because of 'coeliakie disease'. He gave me probiotics to 'close' my gut and I have to follow a gluten-lactose-egg free diet for the time being. This is supposed to be temporary, when my gut is 'closed' I'm supposed to react normal to gluten-lactose-egg again.

It all sounds very weird to me. I have to take powders and pills all day long from a fitness-center store which cost a fortune and are not even real medication. Plus the doctor I usually go to has never ever heard of this 'leaky gut syndrome'. He thinks I just got 'ibs' but how about the blood test that proved intolerances?? I'm very confused.

I have followed this diet for a month now and I all I get from it is diarrea (normally I'm constipated) and -still- a lot of bloating. I don't know as to what to believe and what to do. Can anyone help?
  • 0
Looking forward to more sunny days...
Trouble started 9 years ago at age 14 with a food poisoning
Gluten/lactose/egg intolerance + low iron = leaky gut (?) december 2008
glutenfree december 2008, lactose/eggfree january 2009
wheat free march 2009

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#2 AliB

 
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Posted 28 December 2008 - 12:17 PM

There is quite a lot of credence to Leaky Gut Syndrome and I also believe that a permeable gut contributes to intolerances and allregies, but we have to be careful as there is an awful lot of stuff out there that is a waste of money.

What are you taking? What quantities? For how long?

The D certainly suggests that something may well be clearing out of your system.

You have to watch the diet with these things though. If you are still eating foods that feed the rogue bacteria and/or parasites then taking any treatments will be pointless.

Are you on a Candida diet?

Quite a few of us on here are following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) which removes the foods that feed the pathogens and encourages gut reflorestation with good bacteria from yogurt and probiotics.

Certainly taking natural anti-fungals and anti-bacterials etc., may be useful but they need to be accompanied by a good diet.
  • 0
Ali - 50 - struggled with what I now know to be GI symptoms and poor carb digestion for at least 35 years! Diabetic type II (1997). Mother undx Celiac - lifelong diabetic Type 1 & anemic (plus 1 stillborn and 10 miscarriages after me). Father definitely very GI.

Stopped gluten & dairy, Jan 08, but still other issues so dropped most carbs and sugar and have been following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) since March 08. Recovery slow but steady and I can now eat a much broader range of foods especially raw which are good for my digestion and boost my energy level.

Not getting better? Try the SCD - it might just change your life.........

#3 lizard00

 
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Posted 28 December 2008 - 06:03 PM

What kind of blood tests did he do that showed a food intolerance?

And what is "coeliakie disease"? Did he actually call it that?

As Ali said, there's a lot of stuff that is a waste. I'd be interested to hear what all he told you to take, too. I'm wondering if you're taking too much of something in all those pills and powders that is causing you to have diarrhea?
  • 0
Be yourself, everyone else is taken.
Oscar Wilde

Gluten free November 2007
IgA Deficient, Neg Bloodwork, Double DQ2 Positive
Dietary and Genetic Diagnosis June 2, 2008
Soy free Jan 09

#4 Yoekie

 
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Posted 29 December 2008 - 03:09 AM

Thanks for replying!

What I'm taking:
-probiotic powder in the morning (Lactibiane Reference -Lactosefree-)
-powder that is supposed to boost my dopamine (first ingrediŽnt is wheat though, so I stopped taking it)
-omega-3 oil pill at noon
-30g proteÔn powder at 4 o'clock (which is supposed to 'close' my gut)
-another omega-3 oil pill in the evening
(Plus a weekly iron injection.)

It's all from this french company called Pileje (http://www.pileje.fr/).
The D started when I was about 2 weeks on the diet.
The doctor said it would take 3 to 6 months to stop this leaky gut syndrome.

As to my diet, he gave me a list of foods I need to eat (things I usually don't eat like liver and tomato juice, for my iron intake) and a whole lot of things I needed to leave out either because of intolerances, either because of my serotonine overproduction (mainly sugar), either because of omega-6 (like corn and nuts, which crosses out many glutenfree alternatives).

I asked him if I had 'celiac disease' because that's what people ask me nowadays. He said I probably do not have the 'flattened' villi that is so typical for celiac but rather 'gaps' of missings cells in my bowl. I'm not sure... how can he 'see' this in blood results?? Am I not supposed to have a biopsy to get this checked out? Should I now go to a gastroenterologist to have one?
  • 0
Looking forward to more sunny days...
Trouble started 9 years ago at age 14 with a food poisoning
Gluten/lactose/egg intolerance + low iron = leaky gut (?) december 2008
glutenfree december 2008, lactose/eggfree january 2009
wheat free march 2009

#5 lizard00

 
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Posted 29 December 2008 - 09:46 AM

I asked him if I had 'celiac disease' because that's what people ask me nowadays. He said I probably do not have the 'flattened' villi that is so typical for celiac but rather 'gaps' of missings cells in my bowl. I'm not sure... how can he 'see' this in blood results?? Am I not supposed to have a biopsy to get this checked out? Should I now go to a gastroenterologist to have one?


He can't see your intestines, so to me it's negligent to assume you don't have celiac. You need to find out what tests he ran on you, because there are specific celiac tests, and if you came back elevated on some of these, that is indicative of celiac. Post your results here if they don't make sense to you, most of us are pretty good at interpreting them.

There's a lot of discussion about which came first, the leaky gut or celiac. Does one cause the other? But if you have celiac, once your gut is healed, you cannot go back to eating gluten. You'll end up back in the same place, but probably sicker. It's very important for your health that you know exactly what you're dealing with.

What kind of doctor is he? (Since you said he's not the regular one you see.) A GI would be the one to do the biopsy, but I would imagine without blood work indicating a need for it, it's going to be a difficult task. Another reason to get your blood work!!
  • 0
Be yourself, everyone else is taken.
Oscar Wilde

Gluten free November 2007
IgA Deficient, Neg Bloodwork, Double DQ2 Positive
Dietary and Genetic Diagnosis June 2, 2008
Soy free Jan 09

#6 AliB

 
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Posted 29 December 2008 - 02:48 PM

The fact that you have allergies or intolerances themselves are a good indicator of the Leaky Gut - unless the proteins and undigested food particles can get through the gut wall you would not have any reactions.

The supplements in themselves seem pretty reasonable for encouraging recovery although some of them can be very expensive depending on where you get them - I am not sure how much better their Omega 3 capsules would be than Cod Liver oil from your local pharmacy or Tesco!

Why the iron? Are you anemic?

The thing is that malabsorption happens because of damage to the gut. Only by eating foods that encourage healing can we start to reabsorb nutrients properly.

My Mum was anemic all her life - I so wish I had known about the gluten connection and the SCD years ago.
  • 0
Ali - 50 - struggled with what I now know to be GI symptoms and poor carb digestion for at least 35 years! Diabetic type II (1997). Mother undx Celiac - lifelong diabetic Type 1 & anemic (plus 1 stillborn and 10 miscarriages after me). Father definitely very GI.

Stopped gluten & dairy, Jan 08, but still other issues so dropped most carbs and sugar and have been following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) since March 08. Recovery slow but steady and I can now eat a much broader range of foods especially raw which are good for my digestion and boost my energy level.

Not getting better? Try the SCD - it might just change your life.........

#7 Yoekie

 
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Posted 30 December 2008 - 02:47 AM

The doctor I went to is a GP specialised in nutrition. I don't have the kind of results that are chinese to me, like you're all talking about with Q's and such.
The results of the bloodtests say:
specific IgG (what is IgG?)
F 245-Egg ++ 68.0
F 76-Lactalbumine + 20.7
F 77-B-Lactoglubine 13.3
F 78-Caseine 14.1
F 4-Wheat 15.0
F 79-Gluten ++ 22.1
(++ positif)

Is the only way to know if you're a celiac, doing a gastroscopie? I'm not sure if I can go through with that because I have emetophobia. Is there any other way you can find out for sure?

And yes I'm anemic. And very seriously so, I was on the edge of needing a bloodtransfusion. My LDL cholesterol is too high, so is my serotonine, albumine and AA (omega 3). He says my body is in a constant state of inflammation. And I'm seriously underweight, my metablic age is 12 (I'm 23).
  • 0
Looking forward to more sunny days...
Trouble started 9 years ago at age 14 with a food poisoning
Gluten/lactose/egg intolerance + low iron = leaky gut (?) december 2008
glutenfree december 2008, lactose/eggfree january 2009
wheat free march 2009

#8 lizard00

 
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Posted 30 December 2008 - 07:42 AM

The doctor I went to is a GP specialised in nutrition. I don't have the kind of results that are chinese to me, like you're all talking about with Q's and such.
The results of the bloodtests say:
specific IgG (what is IgG?)
F 245-Egg ++ 68.0
F 76-Lactalbumine + 20.7
F 77-B-Lactoglubine 13.3
F 78-Caseine 14.1
F 4-Wheat 15.0
F 79-Gluten ++ 22.1
(++ positif)

Is the only way to know if you're a celiac, doing a gastroscopie? I'm not sure if I can go through with that because I have emetophobia. Is there any other way you can find out for sure?

And yes I'm anemic. And very seriously so, I was on the edge of needing a bloodtransfusion. My LDL cholesterol is too high, so is my serotonine, albumine and AA (omega 3). He says my body is in a constant state of inflammation. And I'm seriously underweight, my metablic age is 12 (I'm 23).


IgG is an antibody involved in an immune response. Your doctor really should have tested your IgA, as this is the most specific for celiac. However, a positive IgG to gluten can be indicative of celiac. To me, you sound classic celiac. (severe anemia, seriously underweight, lactose intolerance, digestive problems...)

I REALLY think you should pursue this further. For a biopsy, you would be sedated. (here in the States, anyway) There is a pill cam, too, which you swallow, but I'm not sure if it's replacing this EGD yet...
  • 0
Be yourself, everyone else is taken.
Oscar Wilde

Gluten free November 2007
IgA Deficient, Neg Bloodwork, Double DQ2 Positive
Dietary and Genetic Diagnosis June 2, 2008
Soy free Jan 09

#9 AliB

 
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Posted 30 December 2008 - 03:20 PM

I too was very gluten and egg intolerant nearly a year ago when I first picked up on the gluten connection - in fact there was very little my digestion could cope with, but gluten-based carbs, carbs in general and eggs were definite no-nos.

As my gut has been healing through being on the SCD over the last 9 months gradually I have been able to introduce more foods. The egg intolerance cleared up pretty quickly - within a few weeks and I now no longer react to gluten, although I won't eat it until I am sure my gut has completely healed.

I still have some issues with carb digestion and 'heavy' protein like beef and pork, unless finely minced so I am taking Betaine to help with that, but each month that goes by I see progress from the last. As long as I am moving forward, I don't care how long it takes!

I eat very little gluten-free foods because I know they keep the damage going, as do any complex carbs. Although later biopsies done after being gluten-free for some time seems to show that inflammation has settled, I am not sure that the villi actually restore properly and it seems, by the fact that many do continue to react to gluten that the Leaky Gut does not heal either.

That is why I prefer to avoid as much processed food, including gluten-free because not only can I not digest it, it is also damaging my body.

You could try for a Celiac diagnosis, but I am not sure that you would be any better off. I reacted badly to gluten but my diagnosis was negative. Gluten Intolerance is Gluten Intolerance whether you are Celiac or not and the only real way to find out is to allow the body to heal properly, then try re-introducing gluten at a later stage.

The body has a fantastic ability to heal itself - if we give it the chance.

So much of our modern food is processed to within an inch of its life. It is mucked about with. It has chemicals added to it (a report in the newspaper yesterday said that processed ham and bacon has carcinogenic phosphates in it - what took them so long to work that out??? I wonder how long it will take them to realise that nitrates are doing the same thing!?). A lot of the processing changes elements in the food into toxic forms that damage the body. It destroys vital nutrients and enzymes. Some 'foods' actually are not just 'empty' calories, they are 'negative' calories - they actually rob the body of its vital elements.

The only way to help the body and the gut heal is to get back to basics. Remove anything that will do more harm than good. Remove anything processed. Remove high-carb foods (which most gluten-free is) and sugars that encourage rogue bacteria and parasites, and concentrate on good wholesome and preferably organic meat, fish and poultry, fresh vegetables and fruit, nuts, raw honey and plain 24-hour cultured probiotic yogurt for Gut 'reflorestation'.

Oh! Now isn't that exactly what the Specific Carbohydrate diet does............?

PS. The food poisoning almost certainly upset and damaged your gut flora. Many things can destroy the good bacteria - stress and trauma, anti-biotics and other prescription (and non-prescription) drugs, accident, etc. If the gut flora is good then we are unlikely to get things like food-poisoning as the good guys and the immune system would normally see them off, but a compromised flora, just like a decimated army, will have gaps for opportunists to fill or even take over, which is often how Candida works. It is possible too that your gut flora was already compromised before the food poisoning from some other issue and that is why you ended up succumbing to it.

Candida will definitely put the body into a constant inflammative state. It is very good at that too because the immune system wears itself out trying to fight it all the time. The body raises the basal temperature at the site of the infection to try and kill the bacteria which is what causes the inflammation.

You probably have Adrenal Fatigue too as they struggle to support the Immune system. Proteins in a pathogen like Candida can apparently mimic certain proteins in different areas in the body and that can trigger auto-immune reactions as the Immune System tries to destroy the pathogen/s. Boy, is it evil..........
  • 0
Ali - 50 - struggled with what I now know to be GI symptoms and poor carb digestion for at least 35 years! Diabetic type II (1997). Mother undx Celiac - lifelong diabetic Type 1 & anemic (plus 1 stillborn and 10 miscarriages after me). Father definitely very GI.

Stopped gluten & dairy, Jan 08, but still other issues so dropped most carbs and sugar and have been following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) since March 08. Recovery slow but steady and I can now eat a much broader range of foods especially raw which are good for my digestion and boost my energy level.

Not getting better? Try the SCD - it might just change your life.........

#10 GFLady

 
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 05:28 AM

What is SCD?? I wanna know about it.I am gluten free, but still have sympthoms, but I am much better off without the gluten. I am suspecting that there are indeed other allergies involved. My doctor requested a stool test, that showed Candida and other bowel problems. It wasn`t a test for celiacs. I have never been tested for that. Is that a problem?
I have been to a nurse, who is working with your body differently than doctors, I guess in a more natural way, and finds out more than many doctors. She has helped me a LOT, but then again, she can`t do all those biopsys and tests. She did check my blood with the microscope, and found yeast in there, which is the Candida, and put me on the Candida diet. I hated it, but it has helped. However, I haven`t been able to discern all food allergies just with the diet. And I guess, my other problem is, that I just don`t want to accept the fact, that I have to avoid not just all gluten, but all dairy, SUGAR and anything that is fermented (like vinegar), because they all feed that yeast. When I followed this strictly, I got better in about 3 months. But I became undisciplined again, it came back. I need some support. I feel so deprived of not being able to eat anything. I wanna be healthy though.
  • 0

#11 Ken70

 
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 08:48 AM

There is a one hour video at www.mercola.com regarding vitmin D and the role it plays in hundreds of health problems. It is worth watching.

You've gotten some good advice. A strict diet that includes some probitics and some light exercise (enough to sweat) and sunlight as well as a reduction in your stress levels are all factors I would consider in trying to recover. Probiotics alone or diet alone probably won't solve all of your issues. The best approach is probably a multi faceted one.

Good luck

PS - It took me six months and now I can eat what I want again but I never had permanent villi damage (celiac).
  • 0

#12 AliB

 
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 09:13 AM

What is SCD?? I wanna know about it.I am gluten free, but still have sympthoms, but I am much better off without the gluten. I am suspecting that there are indeed other allergies involved. My doctor requested a stool test, that showed Candida and other bowel problems. It wasn`t a test for celiacs. I have never been tested for that. Is that a problem?
I have been to a nurse, who is working with your body differently than doctors, I guess in a more natural way, and finds out more than many doctors. She has helped me a LOT, but then again, she can`t do all those biopsys and tests. She did check my blood with the microscope, and found yeast in there, which is the Candida, and put me on the Candida diet. I hated it, but it has helped. However, I haven`t been able to discern all food allergies just with the diet. And I guess, my other problem is, that I just don`t want to accept the fact, that I have to avoid not just all gluten, but all dairy, SUGAR and anything that is fermented (like vinegar), because they all feed that yeast. When I followed this strictly, I got better in about 3 months. But I became undisciplined again, it came back. I need some support. I feel so deprived of not being able to eat anything. I wanna be healthy though.


Quite a few of us on here are following the SCD and getting good results. Although it is a long-term healing diet there are plenty good things to eat on it, although it does involve more prep and cooking than plain gluten-free because it cuts out the processed 'off the shelf' foods, gluten-free or otherwise, that are do damaging to the body.

As you have got the mastery over Candida but have seen it come back, you know the value of sticking to a good diet.

There is an SCD thread on this section, and the official site is 'breaking the vicious cycle'. 'Pecanbread' is also a good site to look at. It is aimed at kids with Autism, but the info is useful for all, kids and adults alike, with any health issues, as many of these things are triggered by Candida and its ilk. There are quite a few books out now and other SCD websites as it is becoming more widely know about and helps more people recover.

Although you are Gluten intolerant you may not be Celiac, I was intolerant (but am now no longer since being on the SCD, but I wont eat it for some time until I am certain my gut has completely healed and then only occasionally). I actually believe that Celiac is actually just a manifestation of a higher level or different area of gut damage (at this point someone will undoubtedly shoot me down in flames!)

I believe that the gluten intolerance/Celiac is caused by Leaky Gut. Eating gluten-free foods keeps the cycle of damage going so those who are very intolerant will continue to be intolerant until they change their diet and cut out the foods that are contributing to the damage, and give their body a chance to heal properly.

Gluten intolerance is still gluten intolerance whether you are diagnosed 'Celiac' or not.

Ali.
  • 0
Ali - 50 - struggled with what I now know to be GI symptoms and poor carb digestion for at least 35 years! Diabetic type II (1997). Mother undx Celiac - lifelong diabetic Type 1 & anemic (plus 1 stillborn and 10 miscarriages after me). Father definitely very GI.

Stopped gluten & dairy, Jan 08, but still other issues so dropped most carbs and sugar and have been following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) since March 08. Recovery slow but steady and I can now eat a much broader range of foods especially raw which are good for my digestion and boost my energy level.

Not getting better? Try the SCD - it might just change your life.........

#13 Yoekie

 
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 10:09 AM

Wow, many intresting things have been said here!!

I had actually picked up a bug just before the food poisoning happened. So it's possible my gut was still 'in a weaker state' than normally. My mom and sis had eaten the same thing, my sis was only sick for a day. My mom for a month but she'd already had many bowl problems before.

I have found out, just last week, that I DO have less trouble digesting a lunch that is based on 'raw' and unprocessed ingrediŽnts. Warm meals always cause difficulties, even when it's made with organic and pure ingrediŽnts that I'm not intolerant for. Just the mere fact of throwing them together and cooking them, actually seems to make it less digesteable for me... Does that make sense? This doctor actually did encourage me to eat as much raw things as I could... even fish!! (which I have yet to try :huh: )

I do believe in the multidimensional approach. This doctor explained to me that your gut is as much as your 'second brain' (like when an accident happens or you fall in love, it turns your stomach upside down). My gut must have gone through a lot of trouble then because I was (and still am) going through a lot of stress and traumas. There's a lot anxiety. Getting over all that, might get my bowls to be more at peace too, no?

I do keep alternative medicine at armslength so I don't believe in candida, but I do am open to the idea that we don't need to put our body under a miscrocope and know everything about it, to get better. Maybe we should actually just listen to it and hear what it needs and what it doesn't. Or maybe that's just anxiety (for a biopsy) speaking here. I don't know about that but I think you are right Ali, gluten intolerance is gluten intolerance, whether it is 'celiac disease' or not. And that leaky gut is the same thing: damage, of a different sort but with the same result. And the same diet.
  • 0
Looking forward to more sunny days...
Trouble started 9 years ago at age 14 with a food poisoning
Gluten/lactose/egg intolerance + low iron = leaky gut (?) december 2008
glutenfree december 2008, lactose/eggfree january 2009
wheat free march 2009

#14 purple

 
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 01:43 PM

Just wondering...do you or your mom have mercury fillings? And did you get all your childhood vaccinations? Thanks.
  • 0
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28

#15 AliB

 
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Posted 31 December 2008 - 04:13 PM

I do keep alternative medicine at arms length so I don't believe in candida, but I do am open to the idea that we don't need to put our body under a microscope and know everything about it, to get better. Maybe we should actually just listen to it and hear what it needs and what it doesn't. Or maybe that's just anxiety (for a biopsy) speaking here. I don't know about that but I think you are right Ali, gluten intolerance is gluten intolerance, whether it is 'celiac disease' or not. And that leaky gut is the same thing: damage, of a different sort but with the same result. And the same diet.


Yoekie, the thing is whether you believe in it or not, Candida exists. It is medically documented. Granted, a lot of doctors consider it of little importance, but they said the same thing about Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia. Just because they don't accept something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Although, yes there is a lot of quackery out there, there are also a lot of very genuine alternative practitioners who have a lot of knowledge. Just as finding a good Medical Practitioner with the right knowledge can be like finding a needle in a haystack, so can be the same with an alternative, but they are out there.

I think they can compliment each other and would, admirably, if the whole thing was properly organised. Even our Queen and Prince Charles believe in the credence of Alternative Practitioners.

Regardless of that, we can see the impact of Candida without having to look too far. Thrush, oral and vaginal, 'jock-itch', athlete's foot, dandruff, fungal nail infections, halitosis, white coated tongue, etc., are all indicators of a very yeast-based bodily environment and Candida will be a predominant factor. If anyone is unsure if it is an issue for them all they have to do is the spit test.

No, maybe we don't need to put our bodies under a microscope to figure out what is going on, but it is useful to be able to figure it out from those who have. The more research I do about my body and how it works, the more amazed I am at the intelligent design behind it. The body has such amazing powers of recovery - if we let it and if we support it and if we don't put stuff in our mouth that makes it sick.

Yes, we need to be able to read the signals, but we need to know what the signals are telling us in the first place. I think the one that hits me the most is the tonsils. When tonsils keep getting inflamed, what do we do? We get them taken out. Inflamed tonsils are telling us that our body is toxic and we need to detoxify. Continuously inflamed tonsils are telling us that we are extremely toxic and desperately need to detox.

Taking them out is like saying 'well, we can't figure out why you keep getting headaches, we'll just have to cut your head off'!!! :o

I am the opposite to you. I have little or no faith in Allopathic Medicine. I would rather trust an Alternative (if I can find the right one). Every contact I have with MD's whittles my faith in them that little bit more. They have done little to help me and mine. They had years to pick up the gluten/celiac connection with my Mum but it did not happen until 4 weeks before she died when all her organs had failed and it was too late.

To be quite honest, at this stage of my life I have far more trust in my own 'common sense' knowledge base, analytical skills and research ability than I do in any of the 'experts'............

If you want 'medical research' evidence of Candida, have a look at the following document...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....f...&part=A2773

Ali.
  • 0
Ali - 50 - struggled with what I now know to be GI symptoms and poor carb digestion for at least 35 years! Diabetic type II (1997). Mother undx Celiac - lifelong diabetic Type 1 & anemic (plus 1 stillborn and 10 miscarriages after me). Father definitely very GI.

Stopped gluten & dairy, Jan 08, but still other issues so dropped most carbs and sugar and have been following the Specific Carb Diet (SCD) since March 08. Recovery slow but steady and I can now eat a much broader range of foods especially raw which are good for my digestion and boost my energy level.

Not getting better? Try the SCD - it might just change your life.........




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