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Many Doctors Are Trained By Big Pharma


mayfaire

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mayfaire Newbie

We need to take responsibility for our own health because doctors are not trained in health they are trained in prescibing medications (often quite lethal) that keep drug companies wealthy but keep people quite sick.

"Doctors are just the same as lawyers; the only difference is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you too." Chekhov.

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Gemini Experienced
We need to take responsibility for our own health because doctors are not trained in health they are trained in prescibing medications (often quite lethal) that keep drug companies wealthy but keep people quite sick.

"Doctors are just the same as lawyers; the only difference is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you too." Chekhov.

I'm sorry to say that yes, this is what has become of medicine today. There are still some good doctors out there who think outside the box but mainstream medicine

is all about Rx's and screening tests....so they can get you on more and more meds. It's all about control....once they load you up with meds they think you need, you have to keep going on a regular basis and that equals money. If more and more people just cleaned up their diets, a lot of these things would go away and the population will become healthy. Don't have any high hopes this will happen.

Better living thu chemistry!
How many are old enough to remember that saying? :o Was it Dow Corning that coined that?
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Fiddle-Faddle Community Regular

The sad thing is, the doctors are so brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry (amazing how $$ helps with brainwashing, isn't it?) that they actually believe that they are helping by giving you dangerous, poorly tested, side-affect-laden drugs that never address the cause of the problem in the first place.

I often wonder if the doctors would prescribe a gag over our mouths to shut us up if the pharm companies told them it was the appropriate treatment...

Actually, I shouldn't joke--there are several doctors other than Wakefield who have spoken out against the pharm companies (vaccines in particular), and their lives have been made miserable. Several have been accused of insanity, all lost their jobs, at least one has been locked up (although let go later), one had her children taken from her.

They play hardball...

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sbj Rookie

I guess I am alone here (once again!) but is there not one single person on this forum who has a loved one who's life has been SAVED by the important work that medical professionals do?

If not for my gastroenterologist and pathologist I never would have known that I have celiac disease and I would be harming myself right now. Thank goodness for the doctors and surgeons who helped my father and gave me another five years in which to enjoy his company. Thank God for the doctors and surgeons who gave my uncle an extra ten years to spend with his wife and children. Thank goodness for the doctors who provide services free of charge to those in developing countries who could not otherwise afford care. Thank goodness for the medical professionals and pharmaceutical researchers who developed vaccines that have saved literally millions of lives.

It's fun (and easy!) to bash dcotors but some perspective is always a good thing.

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Gentleheart Enthusiast

I guess I am alone here (once again!) but is there not one single person on this forum who has a loved one who's life has been SAVED by the important work that medical professionals do?

Absolutely! I have never felt inclined to bash doctors or even lawyers for that matter. :D There are scoundrels in every profession. It's helpful and right for society to expose the bad apples and all their mischief. But it's never good to ignore the honestly good ones and the wonderful things they do for people on a daily basis, in the process. I have visited some pretty questionable doctors in my time. But I have also been treated by some absolutely wonderful ones as well. :)

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ek327 Newbie

Thank you sbj for adding some objectivity, and common sense.

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Mother of Jibril Enthusiast
I guess I am alone here (once again!) but is there not one single person on this forum who has a loved one who's life has been SAVED by the important work that medical professionals do?

YES... when my son had meningitis last year, I was sooooo grateful for modern medicine. If you're having an acute medical crisis, the United States is a great place to be!

What we could definitely improve on, however, is preventative care... and treatments, screening, etc... for people with autoimmune disorders.

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Fiddle-Faddle Community Regular
I guess I am alone here (once again!) but is there not one single person on this forum who has a loved one who's life has been SAVED by the important work that medical professionals do?

Of course you are right, sbj. I'm sure that there are many doctors who SAVE lives.

But even the doctor who performed the life-saving open-heart surgery on my oldest child totally blew me off when I asked about some MAJOR problems following the surgery.

Those problems took over a decade to correct, and I had to practically stand on my head to get anyone to listen to me.

The problem is, most of us expect these medical professionals to always be correct. It is so terribly frustrating when they are correct less than half the time (in my experience, it's been 10-20%, but I assume that somewhere, somebody has had doctors who were usually correct?), and even more disheartening to

#1) have to educate the doctors and

#2) pay through the nose for the time spent with the doctors, educating them!

sbj, the number of mistakes made in just my family sound like something out of a sitcom:

1) my mother was told that I had a degenerative joint disease, that I would never walk, and that I should be institutionalized.

In fact, I had hip displasia.

2) when I was 4 and walking into things, the opthalmologist didn't believe my mother when she told him I was reading chapter books. When I couldn't identify the E on the eye chart (because I couldn't SEE it), he told her I was obviously slow.

In fact, I was extremely nearsighted.

3) When I was pregnant and my blood pressure changed from 90/60 to 120/80, NOBODY listened to me when I pointed out that it was high for me, and they kept congratulating me on having "perfect blood pressure."

In fact, I had pre-eclampsia and nearly lost the baby.

4) When that baby was 7 weeks old, he suddenly became yellow. The pediatrician laughed at me and said that it was because of his Asian heritage. Then he said it was breast milk jaundice (at 7 weeks???). He finally consented to let me bring the baby in, repeated the Asian heritage garbage, but said he thought there was a tiny little heart murmur, probably nothing.

In fact, the cardiologist told us that our baby was in congestive heart failure and had an enlarged liver (causing the jaundice).

All of our kids had major reactions to their 2-month vaccines (2 of them potentially life-threatening), but I couldn't even get the nurse on the phone to let me speak with the doctor. She blew me off, and said that vaccines don't REALLY cause problems, and it wasn't as bad as I was making it sound, etc...

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JNBunnie1 Community Regular

Just a comment about 'preventative care' in the US.

Ever wonder why women are getting mammograms? To detect breast cancer, right?

Well, did you know that one mammogram exposes a womans chest area to 40 times the radiation of a chest xray, and that repeated radiation exposure at the levels used for mammograms is number 3 on the list of risk factors for breast cancer?

Did you know that thermography, a technique used to detect minute changes in tissue temperatures, is able to detect your body creating blood pathways for tumors before the tumors even begin to form, allowing the test to be accurate in diagnosing breast cancer up to TEN YEARS before a mammogram is capable of doing so?

Did you know that if you ask some doctors if mammograms are accurate/lifesaving/useful in any way, they will actually tell you they're not, but will continue to recommend them to patients anyway for fear of being sued for NOT recommending them?

Emergent care in our country is outstanding. Lives are being saved daily that would have been lost decades, years, sometimes even months ago thanks to new technologies and techniques. Doctors come from all over the world to train with our surgeons for a reason.

This does not mean that HEALTH care in our society is helpful, valuable, or trustworthy. Too many of us have simply learned too much to believe that.

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psawyer Proficient

While the actual content of this thread is fine, I have modified the topic title to better reflect what the discussion is about.

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WW340 Rookie

Well, there is good news on the horizon for you. Doctors are going to be quite scarce in the near future, so most all of us will be seeing nurse practitioners and PA's instead. Nurse practitioners and PA's spend way less time getting educated and will be less likely to know much about pharmacology. There will be very little new research and development of medications. We will be expected to live more like the Europeans and accept most chronic health conditions and not seek treatment for them. People will have to fight tooth and nail to try to get those silly endoscopys.

I have had some mistakes made by doctors in the past, too. But I also have always known it was my responsibilty to look out for my health and that of my children. When a mistake was made with my son, I was persistant until the right answer was found. I didn't know what the answer was, but I knew deep down that they didn't have it right. If you know something is wrong, but the doctor can't find it or figure it out, keep after it until they do.

Yes, when doctors make mistakes it does have life and death consequenses. That is the job they do. If you only count paper clips, then the only mistake you can make is counting paper clips wrong. Mistakes are made in every job, just some mistakes have greater consequences.

With the changes being made in health care today, my husband and I are getting all our routine check ups done now. If there is something that needs to be fixed, I want it fixed by a doctor.

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Jestgar Rising Star
Just a comment about 'preventative care' in the US.

Ever wonder why women are getting mammograms? To detect breast cancer, right?

The AMA no longer recommends yearly mammograms for pre-menopausal women. The ACS does. Lots of stats on this. Bottom line, you should educate yourself on your own risk factors and make your own decision.

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Jestgar Rising Star
Well, there is good news on the horizon for you. Doctors are going to be quite scarce in the near future, so most all of us will be seeing nurse practitioners and PA's instead. Nurse practitioners and PA's spend way less time getting educated and will be less likely to know much about pharmacology. There will be very little new research and development of medications.

Very few physicians do research. Those that do have very limited medical practice.

Physicians know little about pharmacology, you need to consult a pharmacologist about drugs and drug interactions.

PAs and NPs can be extremely educated and experienced. As can RNs.

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Fiddle-Faddle Community Regular
While the actual content of this thread is fine, I have modified the topic title to better reflect what the discussion is about.

But Peter, the original poster never said nor implied that lawyers are trained by big pharma! (In fact, nobody on this thread said that they are, either.)

I understand why you changed the title of the thread, but I don't think the current title is appropriate, either! Perhaps you could ask the OP for an acceptable title change?

I would suggest "Rant against medical system," but I don't know if the OP would approve.

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Christina98 Explorer
I guess I am alone here (once again!) but is there not one single person on this forum who has a loved one who's life has been SAVED by the important work that medical professionals do?

If not for my gastroenterologist and pathologist I never would have known that I have celiac disease and I would be harming myself right now. Thank goodness for the doctors and surgeons who helped my father and gave me another five years in which to enjoy his company. Thank God for the doctors and surgeons who gave my uncle an extra ten years to spend with his wife and children. Thank goodness for the doctors who provide services free of charge to those in developing countries who could not otherwise afford care. Thank goodness for the medical professionals and pharmaceutical researchers who developed vaccines that have saved literally millions of lives.

It's fun (and easy!) to bash dcotors but some perspective is always a good thing.

well I have to say I also agree that the MAJORITY of Dr's out there are not helpful.Its not about "wanting" to bash these doctors,its just about facts and what they are showing there patients.I mean I am living proof.How is it that I (since the age of 5) have gone to Dr's repeatedly month after month year after year with the same complaints/symptoms, and all it EVER got me was a bottle of antibiotics and tylenol for pain.I had faith in Dr's,but no more.......why? 25 years later,when I try to keep my mouth shut and let them do there thing.....they still do nothing.

They cannot tell me anything.

Now I use them for there tests and tests only.

There are a few MD's out there somewhere Im sure that are helpful in finding the root of the problem but not the majority.

Now I choose to only go to an MD with a Holistic approach.

Oh besides using them for there tests.......there also good to use in the case of a life threatening situation,emergency surgery or something like that.

By the way, they gave my father an extra 2 years on his life by taking out his whole left lung! Why cant these dr's find a way to rid disease differently instead of taking out a whole lung?

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ravenwoodglass Mentor
Very few physicians do research. Those that do have very limited medical practice.

Physicians know little about pharmacology, you need to consult a pharmacologist about drugs and drug interactions.

PAs and NPs can be extremely educated and experienced. As can RNs.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

In all my years of illness the only one who really listened to me was a PA, unfortuneately it was at a clinic where you couldn't request a specific person.

I was talking to my DD, who recently got her RN, about my struggles trying to find a doctor. One of the things she said was to look for a NP instead as they usually spend more time with the patients and many of them do listen and take a more holistic approach.

I think a couple of the big issues with medicine today are the fact that doctors put total trust in tests and the numbers. Even when those tests have false negative rates and it is well know that a condition can exist without the positive tests they still consider the tests to always show the answer. The other problem is of course Big Pharm with it's multitude of ways to hide symptoms and cause others. We are taught from a young age that we should simply pop a pill and all the trouble will go away. We have so many things on our OTC shelves that allow us relief from symtoms that we run the risk of being far advanced before we even look to doctors for help. Antidiarrheals alone are a prime example. How many of us self medicated with them at times for years and thought nothing of it? While our disease was impacting more and more systems, for which we took more OTC and eventually script meds. Not to be gross but I think I would have been diagnosed a lot sooner without those meds. It would be hard for a doctor to blow off a patient with active violent D in his office, a patient who couldn't even do a workday without multiple trips to the john, a patient whose hands were so painful that they couldn't even hold a cup. All those meds may have enabled me to get through a day but they also contributed to the long length of time that it took for diagnosis.

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ravenwoodglass Mentor
While the actual content of this thread is fine, I have modified the topic title to better reflect what the discussion is about.

The title was a quote

"Doctors are just the same as lawyers; the only difference is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you too." Chekhov.

There was nothing wrong with it at all, IMHO it did not need your changes.

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Gemini Experienced
The AMA no longer recommends yearly mammograms for pre-menopausal women. The ACS does. Lots of stats on this. Bottom line, you should educate yourself on your own risk factors and make your own decision.

That's interesting....I had not heard this but then again, I don't do physicals every year either. I actually do have a pretty good PCP now and she is not a nag about screenings and physicals. In fact, I was pleased to hear that because my health is so good (at the moment, anyway!) she recommends every 3 years. I also have never had a mammo, for the reasons stated by a previous poster. They need to do a better job with developing realistic screenings for women and not expect you to smash your breasts flat and irradiate them on a yearly basis. You want to know how unreliable a test it is? Only one woman I know was diagnosed early through a mammo....the other ones all found their lumps themselves and this was after a yearly mammo! I am talking of an uncomfortable amount of women who did this and they were totally ticked off that they found their own cancer, 3 months after all the screenings. Like it has been stated here, you need to know your own body well and pay attention when something changes. A doctor doesn't know you anywhere near as well as you yourself do, and what they consider normal may not be normal for you. Never rely on the medical profession totally and not do your own homework.

I would agree that emergency medicine in this country is the best in the world, hands down. However, chronic disease is sorely lacking in doctors who have a clue. They only know how to medicate and very often, get the diagnosis wrong or they miss it entirely or try to tell you that you have a disease that you don't! It was totally inexcusable that it took me 20 years to get a diagnosis for celiac disease, especially since I was textbook. There ARE no excuses for that and because of the total lack of common sense on their part, I do not trust doctors very much. I go when needed but if they aren't willing to work WITH me, I don't go back. It's easier to find a good mechanic.

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Jestgar Rising Star
Only one woman I know was diagnosed early through a mammo....the other ones all found their lumps themselves and this was after a yearly mammo!

This is exactly why it's no longer recommended. The majority of premenopausal women find their lumps themselves, or their PCP finds it. I forget the exact statistics, but it something like: out of 1000 women screened, one will have cancer that's not detected, 2 will have cancer that is detected, and ~100 will undergo additional procedures due to false readings on the scan. So over 10 years you have something like a 50% chance of having un-necessary procedures done due to your mammogram results, a 1% chance of having your cancer missed, and a 2% chance of having your cancer detected. So the odds of detection are not great, and the risks from additional procedures are increased (because your having more procedures).

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purple Community Regular
I guess I am alone here (once again!) but is there not one single person on this forum who has a loved one who's life has been SAVED by the important work that medical professionals do?

If not for my gastroenterologist and pathologist I never would have known that I have celiac disease and I would be harming myself right now. Thank goodness for the doctors and surgeons who helped my father and gave me another five years in which to enjoy his company. Thank God for the doctors and surgeons who gave my uncle an extra ten years to spend with his wife and children. Thank goodness for the doctors who provide services free of charge to those in developing countries who could not otherwise afford care. Thank goodness for the medical professionals and pharmaceutical researchers who developed vaccines that have saved literally millions of lives.

It's fun (and easy!) to bash dcotors but some perspective is always a good thing.

I am thankful my moms osteopath got her off the high blood pressure meds she didn't need among other things the md couldn't fix!

I am thankful for the doc that found a rotting rag inside my neighbor that was left inside him during a previous surgery for cancer, that wasn't caused by smoking according to the doc, even though my neighbor chain smoked for years and died at 60.

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mayfaire Newbie
We need to take responsibility for our own health because doctors are not trained in health they are trained in prescibing medications (often quite lethal) that keep drug companies wealthy but keep people quite sick.

"Doctors are just the same as lawyers; the only difference is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you too." Chekhov.

It took me years to realize "Dr. Welby" and all that show stood for was a complete and dangerous fiction, and even though modern medicine killed my mother at age 46, I still thought it was acceptable to take anti-biotics. I know doctors save lives in emergencies but most (not all) do far more damage in their ignorance of health care than we can even begin to imagine. The media is a constant source of propaganda, who can argue when someone as sweet as Sally Field, who I love by the way, tells us to take a pill? Wouldn't our quality of lives as Celiacs be better if someone like Brad Pitt touted the health benifits of leaving gluten alone and raised money with runs, oh wait, what would the "runs"stand for exactly? What color ribbon would everyone wear to advance the cause? Dun colored? Would people wear a dun colored ribbon, could it become popular or even given notice if no one is making money from all those "runs"?

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purple Community Regular
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julirama723 Contributor

What a thought-provoking thread!

I find it interesting that society's role in this has not been brought up yet. I think as a culture, we "westerners" (and other industrialized countries) are hedonistic and impatient, and we want results NOW. IMO, mainstream America thinks, "Why eat healthy foods, why exercise, what's the point? That takes time. That's a lot of work. I want an easy fix NOW." So, just pop a pill, symptoms abate, and bad/dangerous/unhealthy habits continue. The majority WANT a quick fix and a simple solution.

I'm preaching to the choir here, as I think anyone on this board is obviously being VERY pro-active about their health, regardless of where they stand on the Great Medical Profession Debate! :)

But think about all the other people out there, the ones who eat fast food for every meal of every day. The ones who consider channel surfing to be a form of exercise. The ones who are dying early deaths because they can't say no to commercialism. I have relatives who would rather pop a pill than say no to dessert.

Of course the argument still exists, why are we (as a culture) so lazy and complacent? It's a case of the chicken or the egg. Are we lazy because we pop pills, or do we pop pills because we're lazy?

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Gemini Experienced
This is exactly why it's no longer recommended. The majority of premenopausal women find their lumps themselves, or their PCP finds it. I forget the exact statistics, but it something like: out of 1000 women screened, one will have cancer that's not detected, 2 will have cancer that is detected, and ~100 will undergo additional procedures due to false readings on the scan. So over 10 years you have something like a 50% chance of having un-necessary procedures done due to your mammogram results, a 1% chance of having your cancer missed, and a 2% chance of having your cancer detected. So the odds of detection are not great, and the risks from additional procedures are increased (because your having more procedures).

Why do they do all these studies on pre-menopausal women when, I believe, the majority of breast cancer happens in post-menopausal women? I could be wrong but I know there are WAY too many women diagnosed each year and yet, I don't believe enough is being done to find a real cause because I personally believe that a major contributing factor is something that could put the medical community out of business because of liability. Am I alone in thinking that women are being pumped full of hormones, starting at a ridiculously young age, and it is finally taking it's toll on us? I am not against the use of bio-identical hormones for menopausal relief but to give a 14 year old the Pill so she can have only 3 periods a year is obscene. Add to that all the crap in milk and meat, previously discussed, plus those who have food intolerances and allergies and it's a recipe for disaster.

Almost all the women I know who have had to suffer a bout with breast cancer, a large percentage were on the Pill for many years. Considering that only 1 in 100 women suffered breast cancer at the turn of the century (1900) and today it is 1 in about 8, I find those appalling statistics. What is different? The food we eat, our overuse of meds and the use of hormones today. Can you imagine if a direct link were found with these issues? The medical profession would barely survive due to all the lawsuits. I'm with many of you in believing that organics are the way to go and don't use hormones of any kind unless you are post-menopausal and can't function due to the drop in hormone levels. And if you do use them, trust in the natural ones and leave the pharmaceuticals alone.

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Fiddle-Faddle Community Regular
Considering that only 1 in 100 women suffered breast cancer at the turn of the century (1900) and today it is 1 in about 8, I find those appalling statistics. What is different? The food we eat, our overuse of meds and the use of hormones today.

Don't forget about yearly mammograms! If the older a woman is, the more mammograms she's had, and the older she is, the more likely she is to have breast cancer, isn't it logical that a yearly,HUGE hit of radiation directly to the breast tissue might have something to do with this????

Now, Big Pharma doesn't directly benefit from mammograms, do they? Although they do directly benefit if you have breast cancer...

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