Jump to content

Follow Us:  Twitter Facebook RSS Feed            




   arrowShare this page:
   

   Get email alerts  Subscribe to FREE Celiac.com email alerts

 
Ads by Google:
Celiac.com Sponsor:                                    


Photo
- - - - -

Ratzinger--not Good For Celiacs


  • Please log in to reply

75 replies to this topic

#46 celiac3270

 
celiac3270

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,263 posts
 

Posted 24 April 2005 - 04:35 AM

Hey, I just noticed this thread is under coping with......should I move it to Gab?
  • 0

Celiac.com Sponsor:

#47 debmidge

 
debmidge

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,566 posts
 

Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:01 AM

I can understand being in disagreement over low gluten vs. gluten-free hosts and it's a man-made rule that there must be wheat in host.
But I have to say that I think the Catholic Church, as well as many other Christian denominations go to 1 Corinthians 14:33-36 wherein St. Paul takes on the issue of women in control at church. also note 1Timothy 2:11. Many churches interpret these passages as women have no authority to be leaders in the church. There's really nothing to "interpret" in 1 Timothy as it is cut and dry about it.

However, in 1 Corinthians, it's not certain if Paul is just annoyed that the women talk and interrupt the church service.

My experience is, in the main-line Protestant church I was a member of, the Deacons ( only men) were advisors to the minister and their purpose was to be the spiritual advisors for the flock in addition to the minister - they would hire and fire the minster, decide the Sunday school cirriculum, appoint Sunday school teachers, etc. The Deaconnesses were comprised of women only and they would visit the sick, elderly, new moms, organize the "circles" that helped the missionaries, organize the "food" based church activities like suppers, organize the communion (pour the grape juice and cut the bread needed for the monthly communion and then clean up); basically they did all womenly stuff. They weren't trusted with the man-stuff. Just like in the Catholic church. I always refused to become a Deaconess as I alread had a "womanly" job and didn't want another. Besides, it was very clicky, competitive and I didn't want any part of that anyway.

Something man-made, and not biblical in print, is subject to change. I was just thinking, book of Exodus 16:31 - God rained Manna down from heaven to the Israelities. No ingredient list except the bible says:" White like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey." I doubt it had wheat in it. And if it was good enough for God to give to His Chosen People, it's good enough for the Catholic Church.
  • 0
Husband has Celiac Disease and
Husband misdiagnosed for 27 yrs -
The misdiagnosis was: IBS or colitis
Mis-diagnosed from 1977 to 2003 by various gastros including one of the largest,
most prestigious medical groups in northern NJ which constantly advertises themselves as
being the "best." This GI told him it was "all in his head."
Serious Depressive state ensued
Finally Diagnosed with celiac disease in 2003
Other food sensitivities: almost all fruits, vegetables, spices, eggs, nuts, yeast, fried foods, roughage, soy.
Needs to gain back at least 25 lbs. of the 40 lbs pounds he lost - lost a great amout of body fat and muscle
Developed neuropathy in 2005
Now has lymphadema 2006
It is my opinion that his subsequent disorders could have been avoided had he been diagnosed sooner by any of the dozen or so doctors he saw between 1977 to 2003

#48 Canadian Karen

 
Canadian Karen

    That Crazy Canuck!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,554 posts
 

Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:04 AM

Well, it started out as having to do with celiacs, but it has kinda evolved, eh? I think it should be okay where it is....... :D

Karen
  • 0
Karen

positive bloodwork, positive biopsy
Celiac, collagenous colitis, hypothyroidism
endometriosis (at age 20)
spinal stenosis (early 20's)

Biopsy August 2006 confirmed complete villous atrophy despite being gluten-free for years and bloodwork within range showing compliance with diet. Doctor has confirmed diagnosis of Refractory Celiac Sprue.
Endoscopy also showed numerous stomach ulcers, have started taking Losec.

Mother to Eileen 13 yrs
Rhiannon 8 yrs
Daniel & Connor 6 yr twin boys......

"Joyfulness keeps the heart and face young. A good laugh makes us better friends with ourselves and everybody around us."
Orison Swett Marden


Laughter is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge



"An optimist laughs to forget. A pessimist forgets to laugh."
Tom Nansbury


"Doctor to patient: I have good news and bad news. The good news is that you are not a hypochondriac."
Unknown

#49 celiac3270

 
celiac3270

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,263 posts
 

Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:42 AM

Well, it started out as having to do with celiacs, but it has kinda evolved, eh? I think it should be okay where it is....... :D

Karen

Yea...okay, I'll leave it, cause the 1st half of it is about celiac disease :D ;)
  • 0

#50 lotusgem

 
lotusgem

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 121 posts
 

Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:01 AM

You make some interesting points, Debmidge.
I know that this is yet another diversion, but still it is connected to some of what you were talking about. You spoke of the man-made being subject to change, and Paul's sentiments about women speaking in church. Obviously, this is part of the bible, although the origins are from a member of the human race. Still some have interpreted his words as a prohibition against women having high level participation in the church body.
It reminds me of the prohibition against alcohol consumption in the Islamic tradition. This was not a commandment from God, but something that the prophet Mohammed decreed because one day a drunken man showed up for prayers and was quite disruptive. So no more liquor.
Also, the distaste for dogs by Muslims goes back to Mohammed, not the Koran. When Mohammed was in hiding during a tribal dispute, a barking dog outside the cave in which he was taking cover gave him away. So from then on, dogs were viewed as the lowest of creatures.
Just a bit of trivia, some thoughts on how the man-made can seep into what faithful believers accept as being God-revealed.
Wow, this thread has a life of its own! Pretty soon we'll be discussing whether there should be a speed limit on the autobahn! Gott im Himmel!

Paula
  • 0

#51 tarnalberry

 
tarnalberry

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,542 posts
 

Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:32 AM

I also think it's important to remember that the new testament, in particular, was written by humans, and given the political climate at the time and the historical evidence, it was almost certain a set of male writers. Whether they had specific intentions of "keeping females in their place" or not, they wrote in the context of their times, and times do change.
  • 0
Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"
Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy
G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004
Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me
Bellevue, WA

#52 steadyed

 
steadyed

    New Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
 

Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:43 PM

Not only is there a lot ot Tradition surrounding the Eucharist, but also the teaching is very different from other Christian faiths that teach it. Catholic teaching is that the wheat in the Host is totally replaced by Jesus'. presence. In other Christian faiths, it isn't. It may sound like a technicality, but it is a veryv important difference here.

Ed
  • 0

#53 westiepaws

 
westiepaws

    Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
 

Posted 25 April 2005 - 07:34 PM

Somebody mentioned that a burqua could be an option for a bad hair day. Half a burqua (the bottom half) -- or actually, better yet, a small tent from Sears! -- would be useful on the days when one gets glutened, to cover ye old rapidly expanding abdomen. :blink:
  • 0

#54 Guest_BellyTimber_*

 
Guest_BellyTimber_*
  • Guests
 

Posted 15 May 2005 - 07:03 AM

:lol: :D :)

My reaction to page 1:

If my poem (early April) was gab and not coping, this thread probably is also!

We dealt with these issues before - didn't we?!

Except for the Pope.

Tiffany, celiac3270 and Kaiti who are usually extremely sound, have missed the point on this occasion.

There has indeed been name calling about public personalities and institutions -albeit 50 cent name calling.

Another thing - you Americans don't know you are born. Europe is atheist-materialist-utilitarian through and through, human beings are about to become cogs in a machine, this is Soviet Siberia.

As an English person I'm glad of a German Pope (unlike most of our newspapers), we need such a lot of healing over here. Deep down and not squabbling about things where deep down understanding hasn't been sought.

The real model of church ministry is the inverted pyramid.

Our bishop started a post-baptismal catechetical initiative and there was such trouble he was forced to have it stopped. It's been shown that seminarians and clergy from those groups have dealt relatively speaking better with the issues that trip up many other ones (also lay people).

At my church I am excluded from everything except Mass because I don't make music, I don't have a child at the school, I'm not under 35 and I'm not over 55. There's only groups for these people and Mass, nothing else.

There are lots of nasty people in that church. I'm not going to change churches any more (I've done that a lot for half a century which is older than a lot of you are) because I don't have to be a perfectionist any more - especially not when it comes to other people's affairs. If people are 20% right they're hair-raising, if 40% right they are tolerable, 60% comfortable, 80% extra special.

When I go to Mass I don't have the host, either because I have my doubts about the proportion of gluten in it, or when I would have felt freer on that score, I don't have any available. I don't use wine. We believe the appearances remain when the elements are changed into Jesus, and the appearances are digested.

I don't mope about it, THE BEST SOURCES OF CHURCH DOCTRINE SAY IT IS JUST AS GOOD TO SIT OUT AND MAKE A SPIRITUAL COMMUNION IF THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. I've made this point before when this topic was up before.

In my observation there is in both the Catholic and Protestant churches, too often a superstitious attitude that you must do it and that it must be perfect for you.

I think people that are less practising or of a different denomination ought to WORRY LESS ON OUR BEHALF (it's not doing us or you any good).

I think this thread ought to confine itself to communion breads and hosts per se.

I come and look at these topics for my good, I am interested in the latest about hosts, but I think people who are - rightly - wary of somebody that says he almost (but didn't actually) think they were hypochondriac, should themselves hesitate before wading into areas that are vital to somebody else without much in the way of facts.

I don't know what is at issue in your lives.

We fumble and grope and blunder about the vital issue we do know we have in common - and more or less offend each other from time to time because we're only human. Let's keep out of areas where we don't have enough feel for the reality.

Richard has some interesting news about the new hosts - if this statistic re the gluten content is too high for someone we know, let's carry on discussing it. If we don't actually know someone that it would be relevant to then let's stop pretending we need to stand up for someone - especially by pulling in the whole "misogynistic" thing - the "conservative" whatever that is coded language for. Carrying on writing into the authorities about content of hosts is a valid idea.
  • 0

#55 Guest_BellyTimber_*

 
Guest_BellyTimber_*
  • Guests
 

Posted 15 May 2005 - 07:09 AM

:blink:

My review of page 4:

Westiepaws' idea of small tents for celiacs attending church is the best idea here.

Best overall comment on the thread is from Lotusgem; Gott im Himmel!
  • 0

#56 Guest_BellyTimber_*

 
Guest_BellyTimber_*
  • Guests
 

Posted 15 May 2005 - 07:39 AM

:o

My challenge to everybody - reply to this question:

- have we an actual interest?
- and if so, are we willing to learn?
- and if not, are we willing to leave it to those it's relevant for?

In the next thread it's: we're going to die of osteoporosis and cancer if we don't stick to the needed diet as best we can, and many of you have seen it happen to your loved ones, so you know what you're talking about. That helps me as most of my loved ones have "got away with it" rather.

In this thread where hardly anyone has got an actual issue there's all kinds of sentiments expressed that are not based in reality. The people with the most interests at stake are the people who make the most balanced comments.

Examples: Ruby Rose page 2, kvogt page 1. Thank you both very much.

I also wish to thank Shirley on page 3 for the heart-lightening if true comment about the bilingual being less likely to get demetia as their minds are so busy. Thank you also.

If there was an issue I think Abby has dealt with it in her 20th April post, God doesn't care if you sit out and make a spiritual one. Thank you Abby.

debmidge your source of info has told it you factually wrong, by insisting on a proportion of wheat however small, the authorities are not making anyone sin because it is not a sin to not take the communion elements. I sincerely and truly do assure you you may cease to worry about this.

To stretch the metaphor perhaps we can all become healthier by becoming more "bilingual" in our attitudes.
  • 0

#57 connole1056

 
connole1056

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 143 posts
 

Posted 25 May 2005 - 06:56 PM

If you do not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church then please go find a different religion to complain about!!! There are TWO species of communion available and one is gluten-free! My daughter made her First Communion three years ago and we have never once complained that she is not able to receive under both species. When we are on vacation, and we often are, we simply speak to the priest beforehand about my daughter's disease. We have never had a problem. Before our pastor made wine available to everyone, he would look for us in the congregation. Upon seeing my daughter, he would put wine into a chalice for her. We would get up last at Communion and receive from our pastor, not a Eucharistic minister. Our pastor would then go to the altar, get "her" chalice and give it to her. It was never a problem.
I really think the people who have a problem with the Church's teaching on the host need to take a good hard look at themselves and see if that is really what their problem is. More likely, the problem is with authority and following rules. Why would anyone want to be a member of a church he feels the need to malign? Should the Church change its teaching on the Ressurection because some people have a problem with it? No!!! So if you do not like the Church LEAVE IT !!! Do not attack a man who has dedicated his life to helping others. That is not what a good Catholic does. By the way, it is a sin to attack a priest... I will pray for all of you who are doing that!
  • 0

#58 connole1056

 
connole1056

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 143 posts
 

Posted 25 May 2005 - 07:03 PM

I just posted and then read what gapspan wrote. Because I never had a problem with the teaching on Communion I'd never thought about a Spiritual Communion. You are absolutely wonderful to suggest it!
I also like what you wrote about people of other religions worrying about Catholics. They don't need to worry about us.
Thanks!
  • 0

#59 celiac3270

 
celiac3270

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,263 posts
 

Posted 26 May 2005 - 12:56 PM

-----
  • 0

#60 connole1056

 
connole1056

    Advanced Community Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 143 posts
 

Posted 26 May 2005 - 10:25 PM

Yes, actually you are supposed to go along, or at least except without maligning the Church, with everything to be a good Catholic. That is the whole point! You seem to think of religion as a government that has elections, impeachments, etc. It is not! You are to accept the teaching of the religion. People become members of a particular religion because they agree with the teachings, not to fight them.
And the "nice man" celiac3270 refers to is a rogue priest who knew what he was doing was wrong. I feel for the child who's moron mother put her through the whole ordeal. What kind of person claims to follow the rules and then uses an 8 year old to make a point? The mother obviously has no problem teaching her child to pick and chose the teachings she sees fit to follow, so why bother following any?She knew what she was doing was wrong. She knew her daughter had never made her First Communion. She wanted to stir up a controversy and that is all. Why pretend to be Catholic (or a member of any religion) when you do not agree with it's teaching? That is just stupid.
Because Jesus did not give a recipe for a Communion wafer does not mean there should not be one! When he held up the bread and said "Do this in memory of me" the bread did contain wheat! Furthermore, Jesus did not leave a rulebook but that is why we have a pope. The pope is the mouthpiece for God. And all of you who have a problem with him may want to look up the definition of papal infallibility, instead of "liberal", "Catholic" or anything else. In case you do not look it up, papal infallibility means the pope CANNOT err on matters of Church doctrine. This is because God directs him. So basically, what the pope says is what God wants. The pope prays for guidance and God gives it to him. He does not make decisions willy-nilly
So suck it up and make a Spiritual Communion or receive wine.Just ask if it is gluten-free-it should be. As for worrying about the host being dipped into the wine, ask for a separate chalice. Some people do not have a problem with this because the wafer does not have crumbs that could come off and go into the wine. Other people believe God will protect them because of the nature of what they are doing. Still other people believe that after the host is consecrated it no longer contains gluten because it has become the body and the wine the blood of Christ. People in a support group I was in, who were very sensitive to minute amounts of gluten and had very strong faith received the host every week without problem. I do think that is wonderful for them. A bit like a weekly miracle, but I am not telling anyone to do this because I do not think most people's faith is strong enough and I do not want people experimenting. I do think it is something to think about.
By the way, in my previous post I did not say anyone had complaints with other religions. celiac3270, you seem to have misunderstood me. And I do think people who gripe about their own religion either have a problem with authority and cannot bring themselves to admit it or simply do not understand the religion. So celiac3270, I hope you have read this and then do some research and study about what I touched on. Hopefully, you will then understand that no one is being "victimized".There are sound reasons for all of the Church's teachings. You seem to be a smart kid with access to many research materials and I hope you use them to understand what I wrote about. I am very well educated in these matters and it does offend me when people make disparaging remarks about this. I know I would not say that type of thing about other religions, even if I was ignorant of the facts, and other people should not do it either.
As for people complaining about the poor treatment of women, that is also pure ignorance. However, this website is for celiacs, not uninformed "feminists" looking for an agenda. But, a little informatin does go a long way.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Celiac.com Sponsors: