Am I Wasting My Time With This Candida Regimen/diet?

[jasonD2]

I know there are some great MD's out there, but Ive had so many negative experiences and have become very jaded towards the medical profession.

[tom]

. .. .. Did he want an answer based on medical science, or what? Because those who believe in candida overgrowth and leaky gut are going to give him one answer, and those who believe in what the medical community has to say are going to give him a different answer, . ...

A perfect example of evolving medical science.

10 years ago, leaky gut WAS deemed wacky, but is now generally accepted.

That 8 page celiac article in the Aug'09 Scientific American was about leaky gut nearly as much as about celiac.

Everyone should read it.

Open Original Shared Link

When I was little, barley & rye weren't even on the gluten list.

I'd bet that candida etc will become more accepted as time goes on.

Sheesh, we still have new threads almost every day about someone's frustrating interaction w/ a behind-the-times Dr., whether claiming "you don't look like a celiac", "it's a kid's disease", or any of the endless other outdated misconceptions which at one time WERE The Latest Medical Knowledge.

[jasonD2]

So im on what seems like an anti-candida regimen only I dont have candida. However, whatever showed up on my stool test is definitely a yeast/fungus and is sensitive to the botanicals and antifungals that eliminate candida. so my question is what other types of yeasts can colonize in the GI tract and are they more or less invasive than candida?

[Lisa]

So im on what seems like an anti-candida regimen only I dont have candida. However, whatever showed up on my stool test is definitely a yeast/fungus and is sensitive to the botanicals and antifungals that eliminate candida. so my question is what other types of yeasts can colonize in the GI tract and are they more or less invasive than candida?

Jason,

Maybe you can get some of your questions answered here. It seems like a pretty good resource:

Open Original Shared Link

[burdee]

So im on what seems like an anti-candida regimen only I dont have candida. However, whatever showed up on my stool test is definitely a yeast/fungus and is sensitive to the botanicals and antifungals that eliminate candida. so my question is what other types of yeasts can colonize in the GI tract and are they more or less invasive than candida?

Didn't your stool test results identify the yeast/fungus, when it showed sensitivities to specific botanicals and antifungals?

I'm unfamiliar with yeasts other than candida and saccharomyces boulardii. However, when I asked my doc about taking saccharomyces boulardii to inhibit c-diff recurrence, he said that some of his patients developed overgrowth from that 'beneficial' yeast after they took it to treat other conditions. I don't know whether you took SB before the stool test, but that yeast is one possibility.

SUE

[AliB]

Well, according to medical science, you're wasting your time. Medicine has shown that there's no such thing as "leaky gut" and that "candida overgrowth" isn't really a problem that causes the symptoms some homeopathic practitioners have ascribed to it. I don't want to get tons of rocks thrown at me, but... I tend to side with medical science on this one. I'm a generally pro-science person.

Yes, well, it wasn't that long ago that Doctors were saying there was no such thing as Chronic Fatigue, or Fibromyalgia, either. How many times have things been ridiculed and poo-poohed by the 'Establishment' only to be proved right at a later stage - after all, there was a time when Doctors didn't even consider the washing of hands to be of any importance........

I know Doctors who now also practice Acupuncture and other 'alternatives' alongside their Allopathic treatment. Believe it or not, there are some Doctors out there who actually want to try and make people better, not just mask their symptoms with yet another drug........

Jason, I was riddled with Candida when I first started the SCD. In fact, I think it was the Candida reaching 'fever pitch' that finally tipped me over the edge and collapsed my digestion.

It has been a slow process over this 18 months and I still have a little way to go, but I have gradually clawed my body back from the beasties.

All the external signs of being a 'fungus-factory' have now either gone or are 95% improved. No more athlete's foot, no more thrush, no more dandruff and itchy scalp - for the first time in my life I only need to wash my hair once or twice a week instead of every, or every other day! No more 'jock-itch' or fungal growths. I don't smell any more!!! Great eh?

The fact that the external signs have diminished so much gives me great confidence that the internal ones are too, and the improvements in my digestion and overall health are a testament to that also.

I am finding a great help in coconut oil. I cook with it, use it as a spread, even eat it off the spoon. Because it is rich in Caprylic, Capric and Lauric Acids - all of which are powerful anti-fungals it works even better than the Caprylic capsules - and it is a whole food too so there are other interactions with it which is what the body needs (it is amazing stuff - it makes a brilliant skin lotion and healed a bad burn on my hand incredibly quickly and so well you would never know it had been there).

Since I have been taking the oil my digestion has come on in leaps and bounds. I also take yogurt and probiotics to build up the 'goodies'.

Because I have wised-up to the damage that our 'normal' Western Diet is doing to everyone I no longer crave the rubbishy carbs, and this low-carb regime is the way that people have healthily eaten since time immemorial and is what we should be eating.

Our ancestors weren't daft. They have already done the hard work for us figuring out what is good for us and which foods work best together and 'nutritional science' has come along and torn up the instruction book, to the extent that every five minutes they are changing their minds. The current fad is 'low-fat'. Well, funnily enough, it ain't working! Without enough fat the body can't function properly. The fat has been replaced by carbs. We turn into carb-burners instead of fat-burners and our blood sugars go bananas (not to mention the weight issues, both high and low).

Get back to good, wholesome foods. That message is coming through thick and fast now. More and more are cottoning on to that sense and there is a rapidly growing groundswell of people who are turning their back on the 'foodlike substances' as Michael Pollan calls them and getting back to 'natural'.

If you analyse the food that is served in top restaurants by top chefs it is all based on 'real' food. Good natural real food. Well, and here's the rub, you don't have to be a top chef, neither do you need to go to a top restaurant to eat good healthy food.

Just dump the carbs. The grains, the starchy veg (potatoes and most root veg apart from a few carrots), and the sugar and restrict the dairy and you can beat those beggars. I am.

Yes, you can beat the Candida, but you have to be very strong and disciplined. If not, it will carry on beating you.

[jasonD2]

Nah- im taking S. Boulardii now for c.difficile...its my understanding that the s.boulardii does not colonize in the GI so therefore its impossible to have overgrowth from that yeast

[Mtndog]

While some docs may be pompous and non-caring there doctors that actually want you to feel better.

My doc (he's a Lyme specialist but an MD) did a simple blood test for candida (simple for me- just drew blood) and it came back negative but he gave me Nystatin anyway for 3 months. You could ask for the blood test and then you'll know.

Also, constipation can be caused by many things- for me it was directly related to being hypothroid. Now that I am on the right dose of thyroid meds, I am no longer constipated.

I agree with what AliB said about eating wholesome foods. She's right in that our grandparents certainly weren't eating the amount of processsed foods we are- no Twinkies for them.

Prepare your own healthy food with a good balance of protein (from meat or other non-gluten sources), veggies and fruits and whatever grains you do well with and you should heal. It WILL take time though. No diet change is an overnight fix, unfortuantely.

[RiceGuy]

Well, having been under the candida cloud, and having beaten it, I can tell you that it is 100% real. I can also say without reservation that it is sooo worth ridding yourself of it. The difference for me was practically immeasurable. But I suppose the improvement one gets depends on how far down the beasties have dragged them. I actually did refer to it as a beast, even before I knew what was making me so miserable.

I gave up on doctors before finally figuring it out. Nothing they recommended or prescribed was even close to helpful. On the contrary, some of it was downright harmful.

I agree on the use of coconut oil, especially if you can afford the truly good stuff (it's not cheap). What was suggested to me was caprylic acid capsules, and they worked like a miracle. Interestingly though, I did not avoid carbs at all. The recommendations I got (and followed) where to avoid all sugars, vinegars, yeasts and fruit. And that's what I did. This was before I knew what gluten was doing to me, so I was eating mountains of pasta, potatoes, baking powder biscuits, white rice, and so forth. As I understand it, complex carbs need to be broken down into simple sugars before the yeasts can consume them. So it doesn't make a quick food source for them. I know there are many who disagree with this, and lots of websites saying all manner of things as if they're an authority on the matter. But if complex carbs could be so quickly gobbled up by yeasts, why do bakers add sugar to bread dough to feed the yeast? Yes, the carbs can and will eventually be broken down by enzymes, but it's a much slower (and therefore manageable) process.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that if part of your struggle is an overly-restrictive diet, it might be better to reevaluate the recommendations you've chosen to follow. I'm NOT saying you should eat tons of carbs, nor am I suggesting giving up all restrictions. I'm saying that I think recovery can be quicker with the right approach.

It may be (and I suspect) that each individual infection is best resolved with an approach specifically tailored for it. For instance, the balance of intestinal flora is effected by more than just sugar. Various nutrients are involved, so one's struggle might be complicated by deficiencies. If certain digestive enzymes are lacking, this can mean that certain types of food substances may be left in the gut to ferment. This is one reason why probiotics and prebiotics are often suggested - to assist the helpful bacteria to do their job, multiply, and basically crowd out the bad ones. Both helpful and harmful microbes use mechanisms to prevent the proliferation of their enemies. This is a major reason why it can be difficult to rebuild the population of helpful microbes, when the environment has been purposely altered to restrict them. That's where things like caprylic acid come into play, since it changes the environment to be more in favor of the good guys.

As for specific recommendations, I'd need to know more about what you've been doing thus far. And of course, I only have my own experience with yeast overgrowth, so some portion of what I'd suggest will likely not work for you. However, I think there are some fundamentals which are applicable to the majority if not all cases. For example, not eating sugar should be a no-brainer. Garlic (and onion) are very helpful in maintaining a healthy environment within the intestines. Some acids promote yeast growth, and thus should be avoided. Foods which are more difficult to digest (such as meats) may remain undigested too long, and begin to ferment in the large intestine.

If you can detail what you've been doing and eating, perhaps we'll be better able to make helpful suggestions. Are you currently on any prescription medications? Have you taken antibiotics shortly before or during the yeast overgrowth? What foods do you eat regularly, and which do you avoid?

[BobLoblaw]

I can identify with BOTH the frustration with doctors (conflicting advice, ignoring empirical evidence, toxic prescriptions) and this frustration with some kind of link between candida and celiac. It was only recently I did the research and concluded i MUST have candida. At least one naturopath has confirmed this, not with tests, but with a review of my symptoms - thrush, itchy feeling skin, digestive issues, yeasty taste in mouth and throat, brain fog, gas, intense sugar cravings, fungal infections, and more.

when i got on the "anti-candida" diet my symptoms improved drastically, and i began feeling quite good. i also eliminated gluten and dairy, just in case. well the other day i had some vegetarian meat (as a test), basically gluten sticks. holy crap, for two days i had that intense pain in my left abdomen, gnawing pain going all the way to my back. eliminated the gluten and am feeling better again.

so i've been mulling this over. is it the gluten? is it the candida? is it both? well i came across this article which i found very interesting.

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it basically says the gluten protein that causes all the problems for celiacs is structurally the same as the yeast, at least the part that burrows into the gut. this could explain why the symptoms seem so similar in many cases.

in any case, i've been having good results against the candida with grapefruit seed extract (powerful antifungal), oil of oregano (very powerful, somewhat irritating to me), strong probiotics (20 billion per serving or more) raw sauerkraut, pau d' arco tea (gentle antifungal), coconut oil, and L-glutamine, glucosamine, and slippery elm to soothe and help heal the gut.

also, i have enough experience with this to know that taking all these supplements will not do a lick of good without STICKING to the "anti-candida" diet...I.E. very low carbs, no sugar, no coffee, no alcohol.

it sucks at first but here's the thing, once you get past focusing on what you CANT eat, you start focusing on what you can, and believe me once you eliminate all the crap from your diet you start craving really healthy foods. I'm eating lots of raw vegetables, steamed vegetables, hummus, coming up with all kinds of delicious soups, and sauces and curries. even a few baked products using nut and bean flours.

i guess my question, if i have one, is...what else can i do? i really want this to stick. also, anyone have anymore useful links or advice regarding the candida and celiac connection?

man, i am so happy i found this site. really great threads. really great conversations. battling these issues can be so isolating, painful, and draining, it's awesome to have some inquiring supportive minds at the helm with me.

[RiceGuy]

I've read a number of articles about L-Glutamine which seem to suggest that it aids yeast to proliferate.

Here's an article about yeast infections, which names L-Glutamine as a food source for yeast:

Open Original Shared Link

Though L-Glutamine is supposed to help the gut, I'm not so sure it's a good idea while battling candida.

[BobLoblaw]

I've read a number of articles about L-Glutamine which seem to suggest that it aids yeast to proliferate.

Here's an article about yeast infections, which names L-Glutamine as a food source for yeast:

Open Original Shared Link

Though L-Glutamine is supposed to help the gut, I'm not so sure it's a good idea while battling candida.

Rice Guy,

Thanks for the link. Your posts have been very helpful. I'm going to look into this L-Glutamine thing some more.

I have to say, I'm very dubious of sites that are aggressively selling a specific product (Holy Tea) and trying to get you to join their tea club.

I've done a lot of searching and have found many more testimonials backing L-Glutamine. I've also talked to some well respected naturopaths who believe firmly in this product through their own research and clinic based evidence.

Ah, it's all very confusing. It does seem like a strange product that is somehow fermented with a bacterial starter. Perhaps sticking to herbs like marshmallow and slippery elm is a better idea at this point.

I've made some significant progress against the candida, but i can still feel that my stomach lining needs plenty of healing. I guess I'm eager to move on to this next phase.

I noticed Glucosamine is produced in a similar way. Perhaps that should be avoided too?

Ah well, my "research" continues. Good news is I'm feeling stronger everyday.

[AliB]

I'd probably get shot for saying this but I kind of think well, which one comes first, the Candida or the Celiac? Personally I knew I had Candida long before I ever really became gluten intolerant, or at least before it really manifested itself. For me I suspect that the Candida may well have somehow instigated the gluten intolerance.

I have this analytical mind that thinks outside the box, and the fact that there are still pockets of people in this earth who not only don't have Celiac Disease, they don't have any issues with Candida either really suggests to me that there has to be a link.

What has been done to the gluten grains has to be a factor somehow, but also the quantity of the stuff in everything. Those of us with gluten intolerance, and possibly even Celiac, may not have become symptomatic if we had not been exposed to so much of the stuff.

You look at anyone with some kind of 'auto-immune' disease, and you can pretty much guarantee that Candida will be lurking around there somewhere. Diabetics are usually riddled with it (I know that - I am one of them), Celiacs often have issues with it, people with HIV and Aids struggle with it, people with ME/CFS, Fibromylgia, MS, Colitis and other gut issues - you name it, it is lurking away in the background somewhere.

How the Candida affects us as individuals may well depend on what our genetic weakness is, or familial traits. Diabetes runs on both sides of my family - we all had or have Candida issues. My husband has Fibro - he has Candida issues, I know others with other problems who have it - MS, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Mental problems, etc. We are all walking fungus factories.

Many people poo-pooh it and feel that it is a figment of our imagination, but they too may well have signs like athlete's foot, 'jock-itch', dandruff and itchy scalp, fungal nail infections, skin lesions, etc., so the likelihood is that they have it without realising it.

As I have been treating the Candida and cutting out on the foods that feed them, all these external signs are diminishing, and that gives me great confidence that the internal ones are too.

There is loads of stuff on the internet that makes interesting reading, but this is one article posted on this site by Roy Jamron.

https://www.celiac.com/articles/21605/1/Do-...ease/Page1.html

Here is another on the Candida/SIBO connection

https://www.celiac.com/articles/21881/1/The...tion/Page1.html

As far as vitamins and supplements go, personally I have now stopped taking them all, unless they are an actual food, like dried kelp tablets, etc.

I felt that because the supplements are often synthetic rather than natural they might actually be contributing to my toxin load, and I have enough of that already.

Interestingly, since I have done that, my coccyx, which was very sore, has eased considerably. It may be co-incidence, but then again it may not.

Because I am making sure that all the food I eat is natural, wholesome and full of nutrients, I do feel that my body is benefitting much more from that - after all, as Michael Pollan points out, there are undoubtedly complex chemical processes going on within the food that we know nothing about and isolating different components may actually be doing more harm than good in some cases.

Medical Science does this a lot. They isolate what they consider to be the 'active ingredient' so that they can market it into a lucrative drug, but then can't understand why people get awful side effects that they don't experience when they eat the food or herbs it came from! What they have done is throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[RiceGuy]

Rice Guy,

Thanks for the link. Your posts have been very helpful. I'm going to look into this L-Glutamine thing some more.

I have to say, I'm very dubious of sites that are aggressively selling a specific product (Holy Tea) and trying to get you to join their tea club.

I've done a lot of searching and have found many more testimonials backing L-Glutamine. I've also talked to some well respected naturopaths who believe firmly in this product through their own research and clinic based evidence.

Ah, it's all very confusing. It does seem like a strange product that is somehow fermented with a bacterial starter. Perhaps sticking to herbs like marshmallow and slippery elm is a better idea at this point.

I've made some significant progress against the candida, but i can still feel that my stomach lining needs plenty of healing. I guess I'm eager to move on to this next phase.

I noticed Glucosamine is produced in a similar way. Perhaps that should be avoided too?

Ah well, my "research" continues. Good news is I'm feeling stronger everyday.

I agree with what you said about sites that are promoting a product. I usually try to find information from unbiased sources.

Anyway, IMHO it's not the way the stuff is produced necessarily, but whether or not it can promote the growth of the yeast in the gut. I do take glucosamine (for TMJ, other joints), and I can say it has helped immeasurably. Long after I started using it, I ran into some information which suggests it inhibits yeast growth.

The L-Glutamine on the other hand, seems to be added to the growth medium for yeast cultures in laboratory experiments quite often. I also read about it being suggested for feeding yeast for industrial applications, because it made them grow faster. I looked for that article yesterday, but didn't find it. But, if you do an Internet search for "yeast glutamine", you'll get plenty of articles of a scientific nature. Lots of technical stuff, such as these two:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

I guess the bottom line is if it helps more than it hurts, or vice versa. I actually have a bottle of L-Glutamine, having read about all the supposed benefits to the gut. It irritated the digestive tract, so I stopped using it. I'm not suggesting that it isn't helpful to the gut, but I'm questioning whether it's a good idea for a person to take if their gut is compromised by yeast. In the same way that various foods are nutritious and healthy under normal circumstances, but need to be avoided when battling the yeasty beasties.

I think I'll put some yeast in water, and add some of that L-Glutamine to it and see if the yeast go crazy on it.