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Pernicious Anemia


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#1 Wolicki

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:06 PM

Oh, Yay, another autoimmune disease! So now I have this too, but hey, it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, right ;)

So my iron and B12 are low and I have neuropathy. I started sublingual B12 1000mcg about 2 months ago. I started prescription Ferrex about 2 weeks ago. When I started the Ferrex, I started taking 2000mcg B12, and got my first injection last week.

This somehow told my body to make the neuropathy worse :( I have to make an appt with my doctor to see her to get a shot (that means a 2 1/2 hour wait every time). I am wondering how often you all get shots, and if it's less now than in the beginning? I just need to know if I need to start planning on spending half of my work week sitting in my doctor's office :( :(

Thanks!
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#2 trents

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:32 PM

If indeed you do have pernicious anemia the oral dosing of B12 you are taking is not high enough to be effective. Studies have shown that shots are not the only way to address perniciou anemia for some people. Apparently there is a passive mechanism of absorbtion that with high enough oral dosing does not require the normal intrinsic factor for assimilating B12. This passive mechanism is very inefficient, however, and requires 4000 to 8000 mcg daily to be effective. Not to worry, however. B12 is water soluble and therefore nontoxic, even in very high amounts.
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#3 ravenwoodglass

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 06:13 PM

In addition are you certain the Ferrex is gluten free? Make sure you pharmacist checks it. The B12 injections should not increase your symptoms but getting glutened sure would.
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Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying
"I will try again tommorrow" (Mary Anne Radmacher)


celiac 49 years - Misdiagnosed for 45
Blood tested and repeatedly negative
Diagnosed by Allergist with elimination diet and diagnosis confirmed by GI in 2002
Misdiagnoses for 15 years were IBS-D, ataxia, migraines, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, parathesias, arthritis, livedo reticularis, hairloss, premature menopause, osteoporosis, kidney damage, diverticulosis, prediabetes and ulcers, dermatitis herpeformis
All bold resoved or went into remission with proper diagnosis of Celiac November 2002
Some residual nerve damage remains as of 2006- this has continued to resolve after eliminating soy in 2007

Mother died of celiac related cancer at 56
Twin brother died as a result of autoimmune liver destruction at age 15

Children 2 with Ulcers, GERD, Depression, , 1 with DH, 1 with severe growth stunting (male adult 5 feet)both finally diagnosed Celiac through blood testing and 1 with endo 6 months after Mom


Positive to Soy and Casien also Aug 2007

Gluten Sensitivity Gene Test Aug 2007
HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0303

HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0303

Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 3,3 (Subtype 9,9)

#4 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 06:21 PM

I don't get the shots. I take sublingual B12 in the form of methylcobalamin.

I wonder if it's possible that you are reacting to something in the shot--what is in the shot besides for B12?

As far as having another autoimmune disease, B2 deficiency is very common amongst celiacs due to absorption problems before going on the gluten-free diet, and after going on the gluten-free diet, not eating the "enriched" wheat products (B12 is in the "enriching").

Another common cause of B12 deficiency is long-term use of acid blockers--which many celiacs take because a common symptom amongst celiacs is GERD or reflux! These meds block production of the acid that happens to be needed to properly absorb the B12.

So it's possible that by continuing B12 therapy, staying gluten-free and, if you are currently on acid blockers, weaning down or even off them, you might be able to regulate your B12, in which case, you don't necessarily have another autoimmune disorder!

Of course, it's also possible that you do have another autoimmune disorder, or that you aren't amking adequate intrinsic factor, or any number of other things. But I like to think positive!

There are some good B12 deficiency/pernicious anemia websites out there--have you already found them?
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#5 TrillumHunter

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 06:42 PM

Most people I know has a loading dose like I did initially. Once a week for six weeks and then tapering down. I have one every three months now.

Don't you know someone who is an RN/LPN? They could easily give you the injection--it's not rocket science. You can even train someone around your house to do it for you--even yourself! You can get the syringes prefilled but drawing up the medicine is nothing. You use a whole vial so you can't overdose from one vial.

It makes a world of difference when it's at the right level.
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#6 Ahorsesoul

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 07:09 PM

I started my B12 shots daily for two weeks, now I do weekly shots, at home. Your doctor can write you a prescription for them. A nurse at the clinic can teach you how to do them. Just check with your insurance company to see if they will pay for the shots you do yourself.

It actually hurts less if given into the tummy area. I was always doing them into my thigh when I first started. Another friend said her doctor showed her how to do them in her tummy with a Insulin needle. It took me two hours before I could stick that needle into my tummy, but wow, it didn't hurt like I thought it would. Unfortunately my tummy did not deflate!
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1960s-had symptoms-could have been before but don't remember
1970s-told had colitis or nervous stomach-was given phenobarbital, felt great but still had symptoms
Me, dd and ds diagnosed with Lactose Intolerance
2000-osteopenia
2001-had stroke because of medications I was given
June 2003-saw Chiropractor who specialized in nutrition: Celiac Disease not Lactose Intolerance, went gluten free with once in awhile cheating, off soy and dairy for about 6 months
June 2003-found excellent doctor for fibromyalgia (who has found out she has Celiac Disease)
May 2006-went gluten free with NO cheating-excellent! Made all the difference in the world

#7 Wolicki

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:13 PM

If indeed you do have pernicious anemia the oral dosing of B12 you are taking is not high enough to be effective. Studies have shown that shots are not the only way to address perniciou anemia for some people. Apparently there is a passive mechanism of absorbtion that with high enough oral dosing does not require the normal intrinsic factor for assimilating B12. This passive mechanism is very inefficient, however, and requires 4000 to 8000 mcg daily to be effective. Not to worry, however. B12 is water soluble and therefore nontoxic, even in very high amounts.

Can you take the 8000 all at once or does it need to be spaced out?
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Gluten free is not so bad! If you are new, hang it there, it gets easier!

#8 Wolicki

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:14 PM

In addition are you certain the Ferrex is gluten free? Make sure you pharmacist checks it. The B12 injections should not increase your symptoms but getting glutened sure would.

Yes, it is gluten-free, I had the pharmacist check before I filled it.
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Gluten free is not so bad! If you are new, hang it there, it gets easier!

#9 Wolicki

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:18 PM

I don't get the shots. I take sublingual B12 in the form of methylcobalamin.

I wonder if it's possible that you are reacting to something in the shot--what is in the shot besides for B12?

As far as having another autoimmune disease, B2 deficiency is very common amongst celiacs due to absorption problems before going on the gluten-free diet, and after going on the gluten-free diet, not eating the "enriched" wheat products (B12 is in the "enriching").

Another common cause of B12 deficiency is long-term use of acid blockers--which many celiacs take because a common symptom amongst celiacs is GERD or reflux! These meds block production of the acid that happens to be needed to properly absorb the B12.

So it's possible that by continuing B12 therapy, staying gluten-free and, if you are currently on acid blockers, weaning down or even off them, you might be able to regulate your B12, in which case, you don't necessarily have another autoimmune disorder!

Of course, it's also possible that you do have another autoimmune disorder, or that you aren't amking adequate intrinsic factor, or any number of other things. But I like to think positive!

There are some good B12 deficiency/pernicious anemia websites out there--have you already found them?

THe nurse told me it was only B12 in the shot. I take Aciphex for GERD. I was down to only taking it only every three days,until I had to start the Ferrex. It gives me terrible heartburn, so I had to go back to taking it daily. I have checked out some of the sites.

Thanks everyone for your help! I wonder if maybe the neuropathy is worse these last two days because nerves are healing? Getting worse to get better? Am I a ridiculous optimist? :lol:
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Gluten free is not so bad! If you are new, hang it there, it gets easier!

#10 Wolicki

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:20 PM

I started my B12 shots daily for two weeks, now I do weekly shots, at home. Your doctor can write you a prescription for them. A nurse at the clinic can teach you how to do them. Just check with your insurance company to see if they will pay for the shots you do yourself.

It actually hurts less if given into the tummy area. I was always doing them into my thigh when I first started. Another friend said her doctor showed her how to do them in her tummy with a Insulin needle. It took me two hours before I could stick that needle into my tummy, but wow, it didn't hurt like I thought it would. Unfortunately my tummy did not deflate!

Oh darn! Why couldn't they make a shot for that? :lol:
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Gluten free is not so bad! If you are new, hang it there, it gets easier!

#11 georgie

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:32 PM

A good web site for Pernicious Anemia is http://pernicious-anaemia-society.org/ They have a Forum. Some people are finding that methyl sublinguals before bedtime are more effective than taking it in the morning. Some find methyl injections done with insulin needles work well. Twice a week at first, then once a week etc. If you use B12 you must check your Folate and Potassium levels from time to time as well. I am doing the subcutaneous injections now and they don't hurt at all. I put an ice cube there for a couple of minutes, then its even easier. :) The sublingual tablets on their own were not enough for me.
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Diagnosed May 2006 - Hashimotos Thyroid after being diagnosed in 1977 and told it didn't matter.
Diagnosed June 2006 with adrenal insufficiency.
Diagnosed June 2006 as Gluten Intolerant after I failed the Challenge Diet. Negative blood test.No biopsy.
Diagnosed June 2006 as B12 low. Needed weekly injections for a year.Still have them every 2 weeks.
Trialled Dairy Free Diet and reacted positively to that challenge in January 07.
News Flash! Coeliac Genetic Testing done April 08 . DQ2 Positive !
Diagnosed July 2010 FODMAP. Limits on Fructose, lactose, polyols, fructans. NO ONION! But I can have hard cheese, butter and cream again!!!

#12 Wolicki

 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:56 PM

A good web site for Pernicious Anemia is http://pernicious-anaemia-society.org/ They have a Forum. Some people are finding that methyl sublinguals before bedtime are more effective than taking it in the morning. Some find methyl injections done with insulin needles work well. Twice a week at first, then once a week etc. If you use B12 you must check your Folate and Potassium levels from time to time as well. I am doing the subcutaneous injections now and they don't hurt at all. I put an ice cube there for a couple of minutes, then its even easier. :) The sublingual tablets on their own were not enough for me.

THanks Georgie! GReat resource!
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Gluten free is not so bad! If you are new, hang it there, it gets easier!

#13 Fiddle-Faddle

 
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Posted 18 November 2009 - 11:23 AM

See http://www.mydr.com....o-b12-injection for a listing of ingredients in just that brand of B12: Ingredients
Neo-B12 Injection ampoules contain hydroxocobalamin chloride as the active ingredient.
It also contains:
sodium chloride
glacial acetic acid
water for injections.
This medicine does not contain lactose, sucrose, gluten, tartrazine or any other azo dyes.

Other single-use ampoule brands that I looked up contained similar ingredients.

However, this one: http://www.medisave....reInfo5586.aspx
comes in multi-use vials--and it does not list the preservative or any other ingredients. But it does say at the end that your doctor needs to know if you are allergic to dyes or preservatives, so that kind of implies that both are contained in this brand of B12.
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