Get email alerts Get Celiac.com E-mail Alerts  




Celiac.com Sponsor:
Celiac.com Sponsor:




Ads by Google:






   Get email alerts  Subscribe to FREE Celiac.com email alerts

Digestive Enzymes Therapy Instead Of Gfd
0

21 posts in this topic

I have some theories of my own about the use of present day digestive enzymes that I would like to share.

In MY opinion...

The Cause for celiac disease is an enzyme deficiency. People born with this disease developed it due to the mercury from vaccinations. Eating processed foods void of digestive enzymes contributes greatly to the growing enzyme deficiency problem in society.

The Treatment for celiac disease (besides GFD) is digestive enzymes. Taking digestive enzymes with gluten is a good idea but is not the trick. Taking a high quality PLANT based digestive enzyme on an empty stomach prior to ingesting anything for the next 1-2 hours is the treatment.

When you take a digestive enzyme on an empty stomach the enzymes get absorbed into the blood where they continue doing their job of digesting food particles. The immune system in the blood would normally take on this burden but with digestive enzyme therapy it can take a break. My theory is that the immune system in the gut only attacks gluten as a safety precaution. When the blood is full of enzymes the immune system wont attack gluten as well as the villi.

This is only my opinion. Just thought i would share my idea with you guys and get some feedback.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Ads by Google:

Good luck with that. Let us know how it goes.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And you developed this theory from what?

I've heard people claim that mercury from vaccinations causes virtually every disorder on Earth, but not that it triggers celiac. Please sahre your science with us.

There's one treatment for celiac -- don't eat gluten. Period.

richard

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was having the same thoughts some time ago but when shared with mutiple doctors and different research-facilities here in Sweden I got convinced that I wouldnt even try it.

Reason I got explained was that the enzymes is one thing but since it's not gluten itself thats harming us, it's a part of the gluten that is, namely the gliadine, the enzymes wont help.

I cant remember where it was documented but I've read some articles on the subject where they've done some tests and it didnt come out positive.

However, it might work for some people but personally, I wouldnt try it out knowing the consequences and the potential time it takes to heal.

Would be interesting to know more of your theori though.

/Karl

And you developed this theory from what?

I've heard people claim that mercury from vaccinations causes virtually every disorder on Earth, but not that it triggers celiac. Please sahre your science with us.

There's one treatment for celiac -- don't eat gluten. Period.

richard

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Celiac disease is not a lack of enzymes it is an autoimmune reaction. It is not that we don't digest gluten it is that our immune system reacts to the gluten after it enters the bloodstream. Those antibodies begin being produced as soon as gluten crosses the mucosal barriers so the reaction begins in the mouth it doesn't wait until it reaches the gut.

Your theory is interesting but IMHO not a valid theory.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites




...... It is not that we don't digest gluten it is that our immune system reacts to the gluten after it enters the bloodstream. Those antibodies begin being produced as soon as gluten crosses the mucosal barriers so the reaction begins in the mouth it doesn't wait until it reaches the gut.

.....

Facinating. First I've heard of this mucosal barrier idea. Sounds opposed to what I've learned. That gluten must be ingested to be a problem to Celiacs. Ingested, or swallowed, not inhaled, or absorbed through the nose or eyes.

best regards, lm

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Facinating. First I've heard of this mucosal barrier idea. Sounds opposed to what I've learned. That gluten must be ingested to be a problem to Celiacs. Ingested, or swallowed, not inhaled, or absorbed through the nose or eyes.

best regards, lm

I can across the info while doing a bit of testing research. In some countries they use a gluten suppository inserted into the rectum and then biopsy a few hours later to find the antibody reaction. Others use the oral mucosa for the same thing. Much less barbaric than poisoning us for months to destroy villi with a gluten food challenge. If you do a search for 'rectal challenge' and celiac you should be able to find some of the research.

Here's one article but there are many more.

http://celiacdisease.researchtoday.net/archive/1/5/112.htm

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All scientific studies so far prove you wrong.

I would *not* recommend anyone try this.

Of course, you are totally free to do whatever you like with your own experiments on yourself! :) (AFAIK, no digestive enzymes, however, are able to break up the 33-mer section of gliadin that triggers the immune response in the intestines.)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All scientific studies so far prove you wrong.

I would *not* recommend anyone try this.

Of course, you are totally free to do whatever you like with your own experiments on yourself! :) (AFAIK, no digestive enzymes, however, are able to break up the 33-mer section of gliadin that triggers the immune response in the intestines.)

I think your theory is more of a hypothesis - but I would encourage you to do some research.

That being said, there IS research that shows that digestive enzyme supplementation helps patients with celiac disease

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find your theory interesting. I've read a lot about how a person's inability to digest certain foods because they are lacking in enzymes is connected to diabetes, celiac, hypo and hyper thyroidism, lactose intolerance. I remember reading this about this a year or so ago and thinking I should give enzyme supplements a try as I have Celiac, misdiagnosed for years. Both my parents are diabetic, my brother has Graves disease (an over active thyroid, my sister has the under active thyroid and my other sister and niece are lactose intolerant. So, I thought maybe an inabiity to produce and break down certain foods is in our genes. I've been taking enzymes for about a year now and I find that when I don't take them I suffer. I still avoid all gluten but now with the enzymes I can enjoy an occasional glass of wine or gluten free dessert (before too much sugar would make me sick), once in awhile a piece of cheese and a high fat food (dairy and high fat used to also upset my system for days). Now enzymes and probiotics are staples for me.

I also find it interesting the connection between the bodies ph. I was told for years that my system is too acidic and that's what my problem was. I was given several anti acids which never helped, in fact they made me feel worse so I stopped taking them. Then about 2 years ago I went to a kinesologist who explained that an 'overly acidic system' is often the reverse - an overly alkaline system. Interestingly enough I read that Protease deficiency creates alkaline excesses in the blood. Protease is the enzyme that digests protein.

I'm really interested in picking your brain about this and the research you've done to come up with this theory.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also take a digestive enzymes just to help my digestion. I take NOW's super enzymes.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find your theory interesting. I've read a lot about how a person's inability to digest certain foods because they are lacking in enzymes is connected to diabetes, celiac, hypo and hyper thyroidism, lactose intolerance. I remember reading this about this a year or so ago and thinking I should give enzyme supplements a try as I have Celiac, misdiagnosed for years. Both my parents are diabetic, my brother has Graves disease (an over active thyroid, my sister has the under active thyroid and my other sister and niece are lactose intolerant. So, I thought maybe an inabiity to produce and break down certain foods is in our genes. I've been taking enzymes for about a year now and I find that when I don't take them I suffer. I still avoid all gluten but now with the enzymes I can enjoy an occasional glass of wine or gluten free dessert (before too much sugar would make me sick), once in awhile a piece of cheese and a high fat food (dairy and high fat used to also upset my system for days). Now enzymes and probiotics are staples for me.

I also find it interesting the connection between the bodies ph. I was told for years that my system is too acidic and that's what my problem was. I was given several anti acids which never helped, in fact they made me feel worse so I stopped taking them. Then about 2 years ago I went to a kinesologist who explained that an 'overly acidic system' is often the reverse - an overly alkaline system. Interestingly enough I read that Protease deficiency creates alkaline excesses in the blood. Protease is the enzyme that digests protein.

I'm really interested in picking your brain about this and the research you've done to come up with this theory.

I am reading Dr Ellen Cutler's book, Micro Miracles. She talks about small food particles entering the blood and trigering antibodies...causing autoimmunes disease. I didn't finish reading but so far, I do see the good enzymes can do to our bodies. For her, doctors should use enzyme therapy first thing when someone has autoimmune issues but she doesn't talk about celiac specifically.

I don't think gluten intolerance can be cured by enzyme therapy but with a gluten-free diet, it may work very well and this is the next step for. So far, I was happy with pinneaple, papaya and ginger root but I must need serious supplements. Even with a gluten-free diet, I am not digesting my food and nutrious meals and good supplements aren't working for me. My deficiencies are still here.

Have you consulted with a practionner for your enzyme therapy or you just pick them at the health store?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find your theory interesting. I've read a lot about how a person's inability to digest certain foods because they are lacking in enzymes is connected to diabetes, celiac, hypo and hyper thyroidism, lactose intolerance. I remember reading this about this a year or so ago and thinking I should give enzyme supplements a try as I have Celiac, misdiagnosed for years. Both my parents are diabetic, my brother has Graves disease (an over active thyroid, my sister has the under active thyroid and my other sister and niece are lactose intolerant. So, I thought maybe an inabiity to produce and break down certain foods is in our genes. I've been taking enzymes for about a year now and I find that when I don't take them I suffer. I still avoid all gluten but now with the enzymes I can enjoy an occasional glass of wine or gluten free dessert (before too much sugar would make me sick), once in awhile a piece of cheese and a high fat food (dairy and high fat used to also upset my system for days). Now enzymes and probiotics are staples for me.

I also find it interesting the connection between the bodies ph. I was told for years that my system is too acidic and that's what my problem was. I was given several anti acids which never helped, in fact they made me feel worse so I stopped taking them. Then about 2 years ago I went to a kinesologist who explained that an 'overly acidic system' is often the reverse - an overly alkaline system. Interestingly enough I read that Protease deficiency creates alkaline excesses in the blood. Protease is the enzyme that digests protein.

I'm really interested in picking your brain about this and the research you've done to come up with this theory.

Did the enzymes help with your bodies ph? What brand of enzymes do you take?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is very old and the poster may not see your post and question. Just so you know! :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What larry mac said. Even if everything the OP said about the causes of celiac disease and how digestive enzymes could work, it doesn't make sense (or gives a resonable explanation as to why) that once a person's body is making the harmful antibodies in the gut or all mucosal membranes that it would suddenly stop making them because the 'pathogen' of gluten is taken care of in the bloodstream. The damage is done right when it touches your insides. Furthermore, the immune system is also categorized because different parts of it perform different tasks. IgA seem designed to attack things BEFORE they get inside. Perhaps such a strategy would prevent celiac disease, although its not like they gave any supporting evidence for the digestive enzyme theory.

I too have a cracked up theory about how to treat celiac disease. Drink lots of alcohol as, unlike water, gluten dissolves in it. Or maybe that's the wrong type of alcohol that dissolves it. And maybe being dissolved doesn't actually change how the immune system reacts to it. I will say that I noticed a few times before being diagnosed, if I ever drank enough one day/night to not quite get a hangover, I felt like a perfectly healthy person the next day, which meant I felt flippin' amazing due to feeling not-quite-right for such a long time.

Of course, my original theory as to why I would feel so good after drinking I still haven't debunked. I thought that I might be missing stage 4 sleep more often than not, and so even though I sleep a lot, the quality of sleep wasn't what I needed to actually feel rested. (That itself is something I have learned/read and am certain of.) But being drunk is known to put you quickly into the deep stages of sleep. Of course, lesser amounts of alcohol tend to wear off a few hours into sleep and then the opposite effects then start to happen, which is, among other reasons, why nightcaps aren't generally recommended. But if I drank enough to stay in deep stages of sleep all night, and I'm generally not getting enough deep sleep, the energy I feel the following day makes sense to me. Unfortunately, sleep aids generally make you get less deep sleep. I can't seem to find any other methods of getting more deep sleep.

Or maybe it's simply alcohol's known effects on the adrenal system and has nothing to do with gluten or sleep :-p

Don't worry all though, I don't binge drink very often, and I'm trying to cut out alcohol completely outside of special occasions.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The PLANT based digestive enzymes [Protease, Lipase, Amylase and Cellulase] are grown in a laboratory on plants such as soy, wheat and barley.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so heres my 2 cents for this old/new topic....

Nadia2009--Extremely interesting subject your reading about as this is what really excites me to believe that I can help my daughter feel well. Her immune system is on fire. She fells like crap most of the time. Heres my thoughts....

Celiac disease in essence will cause a leaky gut. Just removing gluten (depending on how long it has been harming you) may not remove your ailments. Your damaged stomach and intestine will allow the most benign ingested substances into your bld stream. The substances will not have been well digested because of this leaky gut and be recognized as an invader. Causing all sorts of symptoms including stom aches, cramps, nausea fatigue so on so on....

Also I feel compelled to share a related researched subject.

Candida overgrowth is very likely within those who suffer from gluten intolerance. There is written evidence that this bad bacteria's Protein cell wall which can easily flourish in a sick gut and intestine looks EXTREMELY similar to the protein structure of GLUTEN!!!!! Holy! This is my holy grail so to speak and I feel I'm on the verge of wellness with my 11 yr old.

Add probiotics to the digestive enzymes. Buy the best you can afford.

Francesca

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is interesting!

I am just learning about my Celiac, DH and Hashimoto's. I do know that I have been able to take much less Prilosec since starting on Probiotics and bone broth. I was discouraged last week when I went to my Dr with a list of questions and asked if leaky gut was something I needed to address. He said he'd never heard of it. And this is the open minded guy who suspected and diagnosed my celiac, encourages patients to read and research on their own and has always been ahead of the curve for a GP. So, is leaky gut recognized by Mai stream medicine or is it like "chelation therapy?" and diets based on blood type...interesting but strictly alternative?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leaky Gut, or Increased Intestinal Permeability, is well-accepted by GIs who've kept current anyway. SciAm had a good long article in Aug '09 with Celiac in the title, but it spent more time on leaky gut. Great diagrams in that one. Written by Dr. Fasano of U of MD.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. A good GI can't turn a blind eye to IIP or "leaky gut."

Bravo to your DR would encouraged your research. My ped GI told me emphatically to stop looking online. He was a horses A. I wonder if you're better off seeking out the help of a Dr. more versed in this disease.

Keep up with the natural healing with your bone broths etc. You will find your path to wellness. Look into natural healing. This website has a good article on just that.

Id like to add something about candida at the risk of veering off the original topic, but i feel it presents a more clear picture. And really, just one of the things I'm considering about my DD declining health.

Along with the protein outer wall seeming like gluten, C. Albicans, in its (possible) overgrowth changes to its more virulent fungal form. This form creates these barbed appendages that cut into the tissue of the intestinal wall. Thereby making it more permeable.

I am in NO way suggesting that this is anyone else's problem but our but it's just so damn interesting I had to share. Also another interesting thing Ive read is the fact that no Dr. will ever recognize this as a problem because there is no billing code for it. Yeah. So if they acknowledge and treat you for it, they would not get reimbursed. Hmm, sounds plausible to me.

Francesca

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting back to the digestive enzymes....

If your villi are blunted they won't produce enough lipase needed to digest fat soluble vitamins. Very important in healing.

Enzymes could be a reason your not absorbing these vitamins. being deficient in FS vitamins can lead to poor digestion along with a miriad of similar issues.

I said buy the best you can before, but i'd like to add... buy ones specifically made for those trying to heal their guts from celiac sprue.

Francesca

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
0

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      104,697
    • Total Posts
      921,781
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It only takes a minute to make a difference. Celiac disease has been overshadowed by the gluten-free diet fad. Getting diagnosed and staying healthy is no piece of cake – those of us who have celiac disease struggle to stay healthy. We need better. We need to be understood. We need a cure. View the full article
    • If you are one of the approximately 2-3 million Americans with celiac disease, ZyGluten™ may be taken before you eat out at a restaurant or a friend\'s house, as it may help break down any gluten cross-contamination that you might encounter. View the full article
    • Advil (ibuprofen) is gluten-free, but can be a stomach irritant, especially if taken on an empty stomach. That said, I will also place my bet on the garlic and onions. As Raven said, eating more than once a day may also help. An empty stomach is likely to be an irritable stomach.
    • Another link: http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/7351/PDF
    • Thanks for posting.  I know it is difficult to talk about these sorts of things even on a webforum.  It is good thing for people to be aware though about celiac disease and that it can cause mental problems.  Gluten can cause brain damage and it can cause anxiety. If the brain does heal it may take a long time. I know that gluten can cause anxiety and obsessive thoughts.  My experience has been similar to your experience. When I first quit eating gluten I had a similar constant loop and strong negative feelings. There are lots of people on this forum who get anxiety when they eat gluten. Some people also experience gluten withdrawl where they experience anxiety after giving up gluten. It can take a long time for the body to heal and for obsessive thoughts to go away.
       It is normal for people to socialize with each other and to be comfortable about it. You said you have problems still socializing and being around people. It might be a depressing thought but it sounds to me like you still have problems with anxiety.  I would recommend considering what options you have available to treat the anxiety. When I quit eating Gluten I still had some symptoms, even though I felt much better. I have been slowly recovering over a period of about three years. I had obsessive thoughts even after I quit eating gluten.  Now I very rarely if at all think about those things. My experience is that my mind would latch on to certain things that caused me anxiety and focus on those things. Sometimes my focus would shift and I would latch onto other things. My ability to socialize has also improved greatly with time. I have made some dietary changes which I believe have helped greatly. It sounds to me like you have obsessive thoughts about things and maybe some brain damage. My experience has been that my obsessive thoughts about different things went away with time. I feel my obsessive thoughts were caused by gluten and not by what people did around me or any events. As my brain healed I became more self aware and things became less stressful.  I can't give medical advice on this forum but I can talk about my current diet and my experience with celiac disease. My experience with gluten is different from a lot of other people so it is a good idea to ask other people and to talk to a doctor.  I avoid oats and avoid almost all processed foods. I buy certified gluten free food. I eat healthy and I exercise every day. I take st John's Wort as I have read studies that say it may be as effective as some other anti-depressants for treating certain types of anxiety. It is available over the counter. I started with a small dosage and then stepped it up over time. I think it helps a lot.  This is also something that you should talk to a doctor about first. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Mahoney2/publication/7426926_St._John's_wort/links/540d8acc0cf2f2b29a386673.pdf A lot of people with celiac disease have vitamin deficiencies.  Vitamin b deficiency can cause anxiety. Some people do not process the synthetic form of vitamin b (from normal pills)  very well, and do better on an activated form of vitamin b. I take:
      1 activated vitamin b12 daily
      1 activated vitamin b6 every once in a while. 1 regular vitamin b multivitamin
      1 magnesium pill every day.
      St Johns Wort daily.
      1 zinc vitamin daily
      I drink lots of Chamomile tea and decaf coffee. I avoid most caffeine. 
      I think each of these helps lower my anxiety level.  I eat fruit with every meal. Canned fruit from walmart is cheap and good for you. I eat salad and and vegetables and avoid dairy.  I eat frozen fish often as it has healthy proteins. Eating healthy is very important. I eat potatoes and rice. http://www.livestrong.com/article/454179-what-is-methyl-b12/ I avoid eating soy sauce, soy, cheese, aged meats and fermented foods (I do drink certain types of alcohol in moderate amounts.) These foods contain lots of Tyramine. I might (or might not) have "monoaine oxidase deficiency" and if so high Tyramine foods should be avoided.  I thought I might have problems with elevated ammonia in my blood, but I am not convinced of that anymore. I limited my consumption of meat for a while as well as dairy but I am not sure if i helped.  I have heard that Celiac disease can effect other organs besides the brain and those organs can have an effect on the brain.  My current diet is working so I am going to stick with it for now. I try not to worry about things that are outside of my control. Be patient as it took me a long time to recover.  Let me know if you have any questions. There is a lot of information on this site and people who are willing to help.
       
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Entries

  • Recent Status Updates

  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      61,702
    • Most Online
      3,093

    Newest Member
    Gigi Fagon
    Joined