Questions! Please Help.

[turtle99]

Hi Everyone,

I gotta a few quesitons I hope to get your feedback on.

What do you think of ELECTRO-DERMAL testing? Do you think this is a good way to measure intolerance to grains?

What do you think of LIVE BLOOD MICROSCOPY? Do you think this would be a good way to tell what deficiencies I might have? What do you think of this technique?

My bloodwork were inconclusive and even though I know 100% that wheat makes me insane and gluten makes me a hairpin away from insane, I am still afraid there is something else wrong that I did not discover yet.

With all our gastrointestinal problems, do you think a COLON CLEANSE is a good idea? Especially when things are not normal, there must be a huge back up of toxins in our system. From what I read, alot of the toxicity starts in the colon and can eventually leak in to our bloodstream. Have any of you done or considered COLON HYDROTHERAPY ?

By the way, I noticed changes in my bowel movements also. Stopped having diarhea. But sometimes I bleed when I have BM, because it hurts a bit when I go. But I do not have constipation. Does anyone else experience bleeding?

[tarnalberry]

electrodermal testing... nope, not going to do jack for measuring intolerance to grains. there's no evidence to suggest that the genetic mutation that produces the molecules that react to gluten, or the antibodies produced in that reaction, in any way change the electrical properties of your skin. so electrodermal testing won't tell you anything about it. (I should note here that I'm not a strong fan of some of the more... creative... alternative medicines if they have not been studies to show an effect.)

if live blood microscopy is just examining a fresh blood sample under a microscope, then no, it's not going to show much of anything either, because the antibodies that indicate gluten intolerance are too small to be seen just under a microscope and they don't produce significant changes in red blood cells or the like.

and as for a colon cleanse - the body is designed to maintain itself, I don't think anything like that is necessary in normal situations.

as for the bleeding - always check this with your doctor. it may just be hemmhroids - you don't have to have much in the way of constipation for that to be a problem sometimes, even if you're young.

[skbird]

Hi Turtle -

I've done some colon cleanses - mainly fiber (psylliam) or others on a regular basis. I have also done the P&B shakes - psylliam and bentonite (that's a kind of clay) - but not seen much come of it, other than being really regular.

I have not tried colonics - can't cross that bridge - but I have tried enemas - I used to get severe migraines and my massage therapist swears by coffee enemas for that. Didn't actually fix the migraine but have had a couple of instances where I have also tried acidophilus or epsom salt enemas and have found them to be comforting. I haven't done any, I don't think, since going gluten-free 7 months back.

One other I tried was a product called Oxy Powder which is a magnesium product with oxygen attached and that stuff will liquify anything in your gut - great if you are constipated. But the cleanse with it was really harsh on me, despite testimonials on independant sites that it's really gentle, and I think it might be the citric acid in it (I seem to be sensitive to that stuff).

Anyway, none of these have made my life hugely better, more like gave me the important feeling like I was doing something to help myself out. It seems as soon as you give up any protocol, you are back to square one, so I guess for that reason I was not all that impressed.

However, when I got my EnteroLab test done, I had almost no malabsorption. Whether or not I had malabsorption before I went gluten-free or before I did some of these things, I don't know.

Take care

Stephanie

[jenvan]

I would be careful with the cleansing. I don't think it hurts to knock back some psyillum (Stephanie and I seem to like that!). And yeah, toxins building up can be a bad thing. However, I can't help but feeling like a lot of the cleanses/colonics can be dangerous in and of themselves. (Even though my mother in law is hard-core cleanses and does colonics a couple of times a week even ! ) I would say too that using a whole bunch of herbs for a cleanse may only irriate your upset system right now, especially with some bleeding. I would recommend some pysillium/hibiscus if you want to try more of a gentle cleanse for the body--with lots of water. Could your bleeding be from hemmoroids? You could have some even if you don't feel constipated. However, if the bleeding is heavy, I would definitely see a doctor.

[jenvan]

Turtle-

PS--If you are interested in psyillum and need more info, read this post I wrote previously on it, what I use etc. Open Original Shared Link

Oh, and my suggestion with trying new or alternative treatments, always do lots of research ! Good luck !

[rmmadden]

Turtle,

I did a colon clense when I first got sick (before I knew I had celiac disease) and I think it does help. I also believe in drinking a lot of water to flush your system out. I have read up a bit on natural/herbal healings and they (herbalist Dr's) say that it all starts with the colon. I think if your system can handle it and you feel okay....go for it.

Right now I am doing a liver/gallbladder flush as I have read theories where the blood of celiac disease people is carrying too much undigested particles and can cause the liver/gallbladder to work too hard and possibly back-up and store toxins. I seem to be feeling better these last 2-weeks (knock-on-wood) and hope it continues.

Best of luck!

Cleveland Bob

[jenvan]

Cleveland Bob-

I read about one liver/gallbladder cleanse. (I'd have to look back--I think maybe you suggested it to me?) It had lots of fruit juices. I can not tolerate fruit juices and know I would be a mess. Perhaps there is another way without all the juices ?

[YankeeDB]

For alternative treatments that may be useless, check quackwatch.com.

I think testing by York Labs and Enterolabs are best for checking food intolerances including gluten. I used both and am very happy following the recommendations.

[skbird]

Cleveland Bob - What kind of liver/gallbladder flush are you doing? I have done four and each one has been increasingly more traumatic so I think I'm done with those. I did get gunk out but I paid prices for it. I have been taking supplements for liver health and that seems to help - I wish I could find something in between the extremes on this one.

My favorite supplement for this is Stone Free - Planetary Formulas. The best story about this I can tell is I had high cholesterol with a bad ratio - tested at total cholesterol 240 at my first and second tests (6 months a part). In between tests I had upped fiber and exercised more. My ratio improved (from 5.6 to 4.2) a little but that was it - same total. My doc wanted me on statins but I said give me one more chance... (besides the statin made me feel terrible! I quit it after two days).

8 weeks before my third lab I started taking Stone Free, I'd take 3 in the morning and 3 in the evening. I felt more energetic, etc. When I went in to my doctor appointment, he looked at my file and said, "what did you do differently?" I told him about taking the supplement, and he said my total cholesterol was 200, ratio of 3.7. I was amazed!

Here's another anecdote- often times shoulder pain on the right side is associated with liver stuff. I have had off and on knots in that area, just under my shoulder blade most of my life. I stopped having it when I started Stone Free/liver flushes. This past week my husband was complaining about his shoulder hurting, same spot. He swore he slept wrong. He never complains so I was surprised but said, I'll bet it's your liver. He said, nuh-uh... I didn't have any stone free but I had some turmeric (big ingredient in SF) and some Bupleurum liver cleanse and he took that. I didn't ask him again that night but the next day said how is your shoulder? He said, you know, an hour after I took those supplements last night, the pain was gone.

Anyway, I still take that sometimes and also something called Bupleurum, supposed to be great for tonifying the liver. The last liver flush (oil and grapefruit juice) I did made me vomit, and in the process I injured my right shoulder so badly that now, 4 months and many chiropractor visits later I am only now able to start rehabilitating it. I wouldn't have believe it but it happened. No more of that stuff for me...

I have heard that liver problems are common with GI as well as other food intolerance as your liver is so busy trying to deal with the reactions you are having that it gets bogged down and congested. So I have centered a good part of my supplement regimine around taking care of my liver, and also making sure that most of what I eat does not make things worse.

OK, no financial interest in Stone Free...

Stephanie

[rmmadden]

skbird & jenvan,

I use products from Dr. Shulze's line of herbal remedies. You can find them at www.herbdoc.com (1-800-HERB-DOC).

The liver/gallbladder flush is a liquid supplement that you add to water and drink 2-4 times a day. It taste's terrible but otherwise I have had no other ill effects from it. It contains Milk Thistle Seed, Dandelion Root, Oregon Grape Root, Gentian Root, Wormwood Leaf/Flower, Black Walnut Hull, Yellow Ginger Root, Garlic Bulb & Fennel Seed.

I am also brewing/drinking Dr. Shulze's Detox Tea which is good for stomach problems as well as the kidney's & bladder (And this one actually taste's good!)

Dr. Shulze has a catalog of herbal remedies for various conditions. You don't have to pay any membership fee's to order and they usually ship pretty fast.

Best of Luck!

Cleveland Bob

[turtle99]

Hey thanks for your responses! You guys know so much! It's great.

huummm...I can see that electro-dermal testing is limited in what it can do. I guess it'sonly good for allergy tests.

I've always been a health -nut about diet and lifestyle, try to eat organic foods, eat good fats, avoid chemicals wherever. so I'm quite open to certain "alternative" (really should be called traditional) medicine. I often take different herbs for different ailments, and for general good health. And I have avoided taking pharma.drugs for many years. Skbird, sounds like you had some very positive effects with herbal cleanses. I've recently has some lower back pain and wondering if that means somethings going on internally. Because I've never had back pain before and I didn't do anything strainuous.

And I do agree that colonics, seems to be an invasive thing to do to your body, and the thought of doing it, is actually scary to me. But if the benefits are really good, I would consider it but yeah, I need to talk to others who have done it and research more, so it's something I haven't ruled out yet.

Cleveland Bob, It's great that you are taking those herbs. Good to hear you're feeling better. There are several herbs in there that you mentioned, I have as a tea as a regular beverage and found them quite helpful. Detoxifying the liver is so important because it gets over burdened easily, and even worse if there are GI problems. But the thing is the detoxing process only works, if your diet is "clean" also. And if you detoxify too fast, that is if it's more than you can handle, and not replinishing the necessary nutrients to your body at the same time, you will feel sick. So it's something to be really careful with.

[skbird]

Oh yeah, I'm familiar with detoxing too fast... I think that's the problem with the liver flushes I was doing. Too extreme for me.

I have considered some of the Dr. Shultz cleanses but I think one I was most interested in contains capsacian/red pepper/cayenne. I can't take that - I get really sick. But the liver product sounds really good. Sounds like a lot of herbs I already take for this.

I've been feeling crummy the last week and I'm not sure if it's too much cleansing, a problem with corn I didn't know about for sure, or if I got accidentally glutened. If it's the latter, I'm going to be bummed - this is happening too easily. But I don't think that's it - I have been diligent and only eating my own foods the last couple of weeks.

Thanks for the info, Cleveland Bob, and I'll look into that one.

And thanks for the reminder about doing it too quickly, Turtle - I get enthusiastic about this stuff sometimes and do not always procede with enough caution...

Stephanie

[turtle99]

Hi Stephanie,

I often get thinking about dextoxifying alot , when I'm feeling bloated and heavy. Then I 'm not sure if I'm just gaining weight or bloating or eating too much of the wrong thing, then I want to try fasting, or juicing or herbal cleanse, sauna, colonic....the list goes. But then before I can give it a real try, I get so wiped out, and tired, I just want to eat again, and start getting cravings. Lately I've been craving cookies and cake. I walked by the gluten-free carrot cake,at the grocery store, 5 times over the past week and finally I gave in , and brought it home. I was trying to cut out sugar from my diet because sugar is damaging to the digestion. But it is soooooooo hard to do. I have such a sweet tooth.

What happens when you eat corn? maybe you should try not eating any at all for a while, then introduce it back in and see what happens.

I think I got "glutened" yesterday. Because today, I feel weak and got stomach ache. I'm starting a mental circus in my head and I'm starting to withdraw from everything. Do you find it takes long to recover from it?

I have much more I want to write but I'm eyelides are so heavy, I ready to pass out..... talk to you later

[srdover]

One other I tried was a product called Oxy Powder which is a magnesium product with oxygen attached and that stuff will liquify anything in your gut - great if you are constipated. But the cleanse with it was really harsh on me, despite testimonials on independant sites that it's really gentle, and I think it might be the citric acid in it (I seem to be sensitive to that stuff).

I don't know anything about herbals or alternative (traditional) medicines, this is just an FYI on magnesium. Magnesium oxide or elemental magnesium can have a laxative effect on you (does Citrate of Magnesia or Milk of Magnesia sound familiar?). Most likely that caused your distress unless you are allergic to citric acid and that compounded your misery.

[skbird]

Yeah, Oxy Powder is supposed to make you "go" big time. Their mantra, in fact if you look it up, is "poop it all out". I don't take it very often but I do when I'm having IBS - recently I was having an episode (might have been glutened) and I think it helped me get over it faster as it got all the offending stuff out of my system (I usually get constipated first).

I really do think there is something to the citric acid part. I found out recently that most citric acid in the US is manufactured by taking molassas or another sugar and adding aspergillis niger, which is a bacteria similar to penicillium. It created the by-product of citric acid much cheaper than extracting it from citrus fruits. At any rate, I do have reactions to several things with citric acid or aspergillis niger in them including: Fit (salad/produce wash), whatever they wash the salad at Outback with, gluten-free tamaris and misos (aspergillis niger is what ferments them), things like concentrated lemon juice preserved with citric acid, Pepsi would make me have heartburn but not Coke (Pepsi uses citric acid, Coke does not) etc. The salad wash causes me almost instant reactions of gas, bloating, cramping and headache and it lasts for about 6-8 hours, is gone by the next morning.

My dad recently was on a statin for his cholesterol that is produced by using aspergillis niger and had a very strong allergic reaction - lips swelled, sores all over his face and neck, breathing trouble, and had to go on prednisone for 10 days. That coupled with my experiences with the stuff is enough to make me want to avoid it. I am not sure if the citric acid in Oxy Powder is fermented a. niger but I try to use it sparingly just to be safe.

Anyway, I appreciate the info, however.

Stephanie

[srdover]

Stephanie,

Wow, you sure know your ingredients! The comment about what they wash the salad with at Outback caught my eye because my husband has been saying for years that whatever they wash the salad with sends him straight into the bathroom so he stopped eating it completely. Same thing about the food at PF Changs. From what they told me they use tamarind instead of soy sauce for their gluten-free stuff. Since he'll eat gluten-free food with me, it might be worth some investigating. Thanks for the info!

[skbird]

Sdrover - Wow, I thought I was the only one! At first when this would happen to me I thought that maybe there was tomato or something in the salad they didn't wash off right. But it tastes a little funny to me and when I taste that I know I'm going to be in for it. Some store-bought ready to eat salad mixes have it on them, too. Also, a friend's restaurant/deli in town uses whatever it is and I haven't asked them what it is because I don't want to be insulting about it... so I haven't worked up the nerve. But I'm pretty sure it's what's in the newer salad washes, like Fit, etc. When I look at the ingredients, everything is harmless except for the citric acid. I don't understand how there would be enough in the wash to make me sick like it does as I do eat other things with citric acid in them at times and don't always react.

Some have told me it's sulfites but I'm certain my friend's restaurant doesn't use those (they are really into earth friendly stuff and wouldn't use sulfites for the reason they are controversial) and the reaction is somewhat different from the sulfite one. Also, I don't react to any other source of sulfites.

I keep thinking I should ask Outback as I *know* I get sick from it there. But I haven't gone back yet. Maybe next time I'll be brave enough...

Stephanie