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Probiotics Without Fos


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#1 burdee

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:05 AM

I'm considering a new probiotic product, which has higher amounts of beneficial bacteria and is priced much more reasonably than the probiotic product I currently use. However, my current probiotic, which I've used for the past 6 years, contains FOS (fructooligosaccharides). Those are PREbiotics, which are supposed to feed the good bacteria in the probiotic products. However, FOS also causes bloating and cramping pain for people with gut inflammation issues. After having misdiagnosed celiac disease until I was 56, and then having 5 bacterial infections, 2 parasites and candida, I STILL have suffered lots of gut inflammation. So I experience uncomfortable bloating every time I take probiotics with FOS.

I'd love to try that new product, because it's more potent and reasonably prices. However, I fear that I won't absorb the good bacteria, because the product doesn't include FOS. I need to absorb all the good bacteria I can get because I'm currently taking antiparasitic drugs to kill the dientamoeba fragilis parasite. So my question is: HAVE ANY OF YOU TAKEN PROBIOTICS DURING OR AFTER ANTIMICROBIAL TREATMENTS (to kill bacteria, parasites or yeast)? DID YOU TAKE PROBIOTICS WITHOUT FOS? DID THOSE FOS FREE PROBIOTICS PREVENT ANTIBIOTIC/ANTIPARASITIC DRUG INDUCED DIARRHEA? DID YOUR POST TREATMENT STOOL TESTS INDICATE THAT YOUR GOOD BACTERIA LEVELS WERE NORMAL?

SUE
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Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.


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#2 jststric

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:34 AM

I'm considering a new probiotic product, which has higher amounts of beneficial bacteria and is priced much more reasonably than the probiotic product I currently use. However, my current probiotic, which I've used for the past 6 years, contains FOS (fructooligosaccharides). Those are PREbiotics, which are supposed to feed the good bacteria in the probiotic products. However, FOS also causes bloating and cramping pain for people with gut inflammation issues. After having misdiagnosed celiac disease until I was 56, and then having 5 bacterial infections, 2 parasites and candida, I STILL have suffered lots of gut inflammation. So I experience uncomfortable bloating every time I take probiotics with FOS.

I'd love to try that new product, because it's more potent and reasonably prices. However, I fear that I won't absorb the good bacteria, because the product doesn't include FOS. I need to absorb all the good bacteria I can get because I'm currently taking antiparasitic drugs to kill the dientamoeba fragilis parasite. So my question is: HAVE ANY OF YOU TAKEN PROBIOTICS DURING OR AFTER ANTIMICROBIAL TREATMENTS (to kill bacteria, parasites or yeast)? DID YOU TAKE PROBIOTICS WITHOUT FOS? DID THOSE FOS FREE PROBIOTICS PREVENT ANTIBIOTIC/ANTIPARASITIC DRUG INDUCED DIARRHEA? DID YOUR POST TREATMENT STOOL TESTS INDICATE THAT YOUR GOOD BACTERIA LEVELS WERE NORMAL?

SUE

I get my probiotics from Kirkman Labs. www.kirkmanlabs.com They have a nice selection of allergen-free products. I use their Lactobacillus Acidophilus and its 3.0 billion CFU's per capsule. The ingredients are Microcrystalline Cellulose, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Silicon Dioxide, Plant Cellulose Capsule. That's it. Their customer service is excellent. Good luck!
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#3 burdee

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 09:01 AM

I get my probiotics from Kirkman Labs. www.kirkmanlabs.com They have a nice selection of allergen-free products. I use their Lactobacillus Acidophilus and its 3.0 billion CFU's per capsule. The ingredients are Microcrystalline Cellulose, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Silicon Dioxide, Plant Cellulose Capsule. That's it. Their customer service is excellent. Good luck!


THANKS, but I'm considering a product with 5 different kinds of good bacteria and 50 billion CFU's per capsule. However they don't contain FOS. So I don't know how well the product will survive in my parasite and antiparasitic drug filled gut.

SUE
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Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.


#4 gary'sgirl

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 09:38 AM

I'm considering a new probiotic product, which has higher amounts of beneficial bacteria and is priced much more reasonably than the probiotic product I currently use. However, my current probiotic, which I've used for the past 6 years, contains FOS (fructooligosaccharides). Those are PREbiotics, which are supposed to feed the good bacteria in the probiotic products. However, FOS also causes bloating and cramping pain for people with gut inflammation issues. After having misdiagnosed celiac disease until I was 56, and then having 5 bacterial infections, 2 parasites and candida, I STILL have suffered lots of gut inflammation. So I experience uncomfortable bloating every time I take probiotics with FOS.

I'd love to try that new product, because it's more potent and reasonably prices. However, I fear that I won't absorb the good bacteria, because the product doesn't include FOS. I need to absorb all the good bacteria I can get because I'm currently taking antiparasitic drugs to kill the dientamoeba fragilis parasite. So my question is: HAVE ANY OF YOU TAKEN PROBIOTICS DURING OR AFTER ANTIMICROBIAL TREATMENTS (to kill bacteria, parasites or yeast)? DID YOU TAKE PROBIOTICS WITHOUT FOS? DID THOSE FOS FREE PROBIOTICS PREVENT ANTIBIOTIC/ANTIPARASITIC DRUG INDUCED DIARRHEA? DID YOUR POST TREATMENT STOOL TESTS INDICATE THAT YOUR GOOD BACTERIA LEVELS WERE NORMAL?

SUE

Is your treatment killing bacteria? It sounds like it does. While taking bacteria killing drugs you should NOT take probiotics, because it will just kill the good bacteria too and will not help your gut with absorption - you'll end up throwing money away. :blink: :unsure:

However, as soon as you are done with your treatment you should start taking a probiotic right away, because your body will be stripped of all the good, as well as the bad bacteria.

I just finished taking a round of very strong antibiotics and a fungal treatment as well. As soon as I finish those I started taking a very strong probiotic in the morning and one before I go to bed. I also take a separate pill that is a pre-biotic. My doctor did say that unless you have a good supply of pre-biotics your gut won't be a good enviroment for the probiotics to colinize in.

My doc did tell me that you can also eat non sweetened apple sauce every day to build up your pre-biotics. Maybe you should try that with the probiotic that you want to take. It might not make you bloat so much.

I hope some of this info might help you - good luck!

~Sarah
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#5 burdee

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:20 AM

Is your treatment killing bacteria? It sounds like it does. While taking bacteria killing drugs you should NOT take probiotics, because it will just kill the good bacteria too and will not help your gut with absorption - you'll end up throwing money away. :blink: :unsure:

However, as soon as you are done with your treatment you should start taking a probiotic right away, because your body will be stripped of all the good, as well as the bad bacteria.

I just finished taking a round of very strong antibiotics and a fungal treatment as well. As soon as I finish those I started taking a very strong probiotic in the morning and one before I go to bed. I also take a separate pill that is a pre-biotic. My doctor did say that unless you have a good supply of pre-biotics your gut won't be a good enviroment for the probiotics to colinize in.

My doc did tell me that you can also eat non sweetened apple sauce every day to build up your pre-biotics. Maybe you should try that with the probiotic that you want to take. It might not make you bloat so much.

I hope some of this info might help you - good luck!

~Sarah


I'm taking an antiPARISITIC drug to kill a parasite and mastic gum to kill H. pylori bacteria. I have treated 6 previous gut bugs. My doctors have always told me to take probiotics WHILE I take antimicrobials for gut infections. The antimicrobials may kill off some or even most of the probiotics. However, that's still better than leaving big gaps in my intestinal flora, which can be filled by opportunistic bacteria while killing the more pathogenic bacteria. I've had infections of opportunistic bacteria. Those cause the same uncomfortable intestinal symptoms. I always follow any antimicrobial treatment regimen with very high dose probiotics (127 billion per dose) for 7 days.

Thanks for the tip about sugar free applesauce, which I LOVE. Everything I've read says onions, garlic, artichokes and asparagus provide prebiotics. I'd never read/heard anything about applesauce.
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Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.


#6 Jestgar

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:09 AM

Just a general statement about biology, not knowing any of the stuff you're taking-

The bugs you are taking are meant to colonize your intestine and replace the bad bugs. They should be able to eat whatever you are eating. If you don't give them a prebiotic they should still be able to reproduce. To give them a better shot at growing well, You might want to break the capsule open and stir it into your room temp, or slightly warm applesauce and let it sit for half an hour or so. (Milk would be better, but I think you're casein free).

The antifungal still might interfere with the bugs, so try to space them far apart to give your probiotics the best chance.

Somewhere else someone once posted a recipe using a probiotic capsule to make coconut milk yogurt. You might want to consider that as well.
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#7 burdee

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:22 AM

Just a general statement about biology, not knowing any of the stuff you're taking-

The bugs you are taking are meant to colonize your intestine and replace the bad bugs. They should be able to eat whatever you are eating. If you don't give them a prebiotic they should still be able to reproduce. To give them a better shot at growing well, You might want to break the capsule open and stir it into your room temp, or slightly warm applesauce and let it sit for half an hour or so. (Milk would be better, but I think you're casein free).

The antifungal still might interfere with the bugs, so try to space them far apart to give your probiotics the best chance.

Somewhere else someone once posted a recipe using a probiotic capsule to make coconut milk yogurt. You might want to consider that as well.


Thanks so much. That's very reassuring. Great suggestions! I would also love to try making coconut milk yogurt. Does anyone have a recipe?
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Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.


#8 Minniepotter

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:42 PM

Just wanted to give you a heads up that taking a probiotic along with your treatment MAY make your stools look bloody black.
Now we have only used flagyl to kill bacteria, and your treatment is for a different bug, but I just didn't want you to have the same scare if it should happen.
I'm not sure what type of probiotic bacteria you are looking for, but Culturelle has one that is free of dairy, artificial dyes, colors, preservatives, flavors, yeast, wheat, gluten, lactose and corn.
It's lactobacilus GG

It's a children's formula. Meaning smaller packets, but the adult form isn't completely allergen free for some reason.

I always continue to give probiotics while treating my son. It may be futile, but it's not going to do harm.
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#9 burdee

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:57 PM

Just wanted to give you a heads up that taking a probiotic along with your treatment MAY make your stools look bloody black.
Now we have only used flagyl to kill bacteria, and your treatment is for a different bug, but I just didn't want you to have the same scare if it should happen.
I'm not sure what type of probiotic bacteria you are looking for, but Culturelle has one that is free of dairy, artificial dyes, colors, preservatives, flavors, yeast, wheat, gluten, lactose and corn.
It's lactobacilus GG

It's a children's formula. Meaning smaller packets, but the adult form isn't completely allergen free for some reason.

I always continue to give probiotics while treating my son. It may be futile, but it's not going to do harm.


I've never experienced bloody, black stools while taking antibiotics with probiotics. I did take flagyl last summer for 17 days to (unsuccessfully) treat c-diff bacteria. I never noticed bloody, black stools, but I certainly suffered all the other intense flagyl side effects (cramping pain, bloating, nausea, vomiting, constant strong metallic taste which made every food taste horrible). Fortunately I stopped flagyl after unsuccessful treatment and started vancomycin, which had almost no side effects (except soft stools) and killed the c-diff bacteria after longer full dose and then tapered and pulse dose treatment.

Within the past hour 2 different doctors answered my question about FOS. I don't need it! YAAAAY!! So I ordered the more economical, high dose probiotics which does not contain FOS. That's one less treatment side effect to endure.

SUE
  • 0

Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.


#10 burdee

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 01:02 PM

Thanks to all who replied to my questions. I just heard from 2 different docs (my old and new one) that I do NOT need to take FOS with probiotics. YAAAAYY!!! One less treatment side effect to endure.

SUE
  • 0

Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.


#11 gary'sgirl

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 07:00 PM

I'm taking an antiPARISITIC drug to kill a parasite and mastic gum to kill H. pylori bacteria. I have treated 6 previous gut bugs. My doctors have always told me to take probiotics WHILE I take antimicrobials for gut infections. The antimicrobials may kill off some or even most of the probiotics. However, that's still better than leaving big gaps in my intestinal flora, which can be filled by opportunistic bacteria while killing the more pathogenic bacteria. I've had infections of opportunistic bacteria. Those cause the same uncomfortable intestinal symptoms. I always follow any antimicrobial treatment regimen with very high dose probiotics (127 billion per dose) for 7 days.

Thanks for the tip about sugar free applesauce, which I LOVE. Everything I've read says onions, garlic, artichokes and asparagus provide prebiotics. I'd never read/heard anything about applesauce.

Sorry if I offended you or said something that you thought wasn't right. I was just trying to help with what I have learned so far, and if you know better about that stuff then that is good.

I just feel bad when I hear of other people struggling with their health and I want to help if I can, because I have had such a hard and lonely road in trying to get better.

I hope you feel better soon.
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#12 burdee

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:00 PM

Sorry if I offended you or said something that you thought wasn't right. I was just trying to help with what I have learned so far, and if you know better about that stuff then that is good.

I just feel bad when I hear of other people struggling with their health and I want to help if I can, because I have had such a hard and lonely road in trying to get better.

I hope you feel better soon.


No, you didn't offend me at all. I was just replying to your question about whether I was taking antibacteria drugs and wanted to explain that I'm taking an antiparasitic drug and an herbal supplement (mastic gum) for the H. Pylori bacteria. Your reasoning about wasting money on probiotics, which get killed by antibiotics, is very sound. However, my experience has been that some of those probiotics must survive antibiotic treatment, because I get less antibiotic induced diarrhea when I take more probiotics than when I take less probiotics. I just consider probiotics part of the battle against a particular intestinal bug.

Also I hadn't heard or read about applesauce to feed probiotics. However, I've since read that many foods I commonly eat (like kale, berries, bananas AND apples) can feed the good bacteria in our gut.

I hope you didn't think my use of all caps for emphasis meant I was offended. I was just trying to emphasize that I was taking an antiparasitic drug, rather than an antibiotic. (However, both can cause diarrhea as they deplete good bacteria in the gut.) I do appreciate your and everyone else's replies to my questions. I received some good advice, although not a direct answer to my question about whether I need to take FOS in order to absorb probiotics. Fortunately both of my doctor's replied to that question and told me I do NOT need FOS for probiotic absorption.

SUE
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Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.



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