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Not Rising Enough & Which Beater To Use?


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#1 WVSweetie Pie

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:06 AM

Last week I baked the flax bread that everyone has raved about. It was quite good, but I did not experience what I think should have been sufficient rising. Most people mention even going over the top of the pan. Mine did raise (somewhat unevenly) to the top of the pan, but during backing and cooling did shrink some. The middle of the bread was probably only 2 or 2 1/2 in. high. The sides were somewhat higher.

My ingredients were room temp. and my yeast was new. I wonder about the beating. I used the flat beater from my Kitchen Aid mixer. Should I have used the other one to incorporate more air into the batter?

Thanks for your experienced help.
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#2 TiffersAnn

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 10:40 AM

Sometimes the humidity outside can even effect rising. If it's raining or really sticky hot outside I don't even bother baking. As for your beater type, more air in the batter would help.
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#3 sa1937

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 11:42 AM

Baking gluten free yeast bread is my biggest challenge. It seems they usually only rise to the top of the pan but I never get what I'd call "oven spring". So I'm still trying to find that deep dark secret myself.

I use the flat paddle attachment on my KitchenAid mixer.

I think there are probably several of us trying to figure out the magic of baking. The breads I've baked are generally edible although I have thrown out a few bricks. Posted Image
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Sylvia
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#4 WVSweetie Pie

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:29 PM

Sometimes the humidity outside can even effect rising. If it's raining or really sticky hot outside I don't even bother baking. As for your beater type, more air in the batter would help.



Thanks for your thoughts. Next time, I'll check the weather!
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#5 WVSweetie Pie

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:36 PM

Baking gluten free yeast bread is my biggest challenge. It seems they usually only rise to the top of the pan but I never get what I'd call "oven spring". So I'm still trying to find that deep dark secret myself.

I use the flat paddle attachment on my KitchenAid mixer.

I think there are probably several of us trying to figure out the magic of baking. The breads I've baked are generally edible although I have thrown out a few bricks. Posted Image



I used the flat paddle last week when I tried my first loaf. The dough rose to the top, but lost height while baking and cooling. (It didn't fall)

Today, I used the dough hook. What the heck is it for anyway? Made sense to me. Anyway, again the dough rose to the top and after about 45 min. rising, began to lose height. It continued to go down as it baked and consequently, my slices are only 2 inches high. It's smaller than the one I made last week. It's delicious, but what's wrong? Shouldn't it be taller than that? After all that work, all those ingredients, and cleaning up half the dishes in my kitchen, shouldn't there be a greater reward?
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#6 sa1937

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:26 PM

I used the flat paddle last week when I tried my first loaf. The dough rose to the top, but lost height while baking and cooling. (It didn't fall)

Today, I used the dough hook. What the heck is it for anyway? Made sense to me. Anyway, again the dough rose to the top and after about 45 min. rising, began to lose height. It continued to go down as it baked and consequently, my slices are only 2 inches high. It's smaller than the one I made last week. It's delicious, but what's wrong? Shouldn't it be taller than that? After all that work, all those ingredients, and cleaning up half the dishes in my kitchen, shouldn't there be a greater reward?

I think most cookbooks call for using the flat paddle as gluten free "doughs" are really more like batters than doughs. Contrast that to wheat flour with lots of elasticity, which uses the dough hook. We try to achieve that with xanthan gum and possibly other ingredients, too.

Hmmm...yes it should have been taller. And what's wrong? Good question and one I've always struggled with, too, and continue to stuggle with. And yes, I understand using a lengthy list of ingredients, having my kitchen a disaster area and very little reward. I only wish I had the answer.
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Sylvia
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#7 mushroom

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:55 PM

I think most cookbooks call for using the flat paddle as gluten free "doughs" are really more like batters than doughs. Contrast that to wheat flour with lots of elasticity, which uses the dough hook. We try to achieve that with xanthan gum and possibly other ingredients, too.

Hmmm...yes it should have been taller. And what's wrong? Good question and one I've always struggled with, too, and continue to stuggle with. And yes, I understand using a lengthy list of ingredients, having my kitchen a disaster area and very little reward. I only wish I had the answer.


I, too, have yet to get an "oven" rise out of my dough; the bread always ends up smaller than when baking started. I think I am going to try halfrunner's trick of adding some baking powder to it :P
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Neroli


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#8 sa1937

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 03:10 PM

I, too, have yet to get an "oven" rise out of my dough; the bread always ends up smaller than when baking started. I think I am going to try halfrunner's trick of adding some baking powder to it Posted Image


I've thought of doing that with every bread I make but haven't tried it yet unless a recipe specifically calls for it. BTW, her buckwheat bread is really tasty. Yum!
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Sylvia
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#9 mushroom

 
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Posted 11 October 2010 - 10:20 PM

I've thought of doing that with every bread I make but haven't tried it yet unless a recipe specifically calls for it. BTW, her buckwheat bread is really tasty. Yum!


I haven't tried the revised version yet :rolleyes:
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Neroli


"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." - Albert Einstein

"Life is not weathering the storm; it is learning to dance in the rain"

"Whatever the question, the answer is always chocolate." Nigella Lawson

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Lactose free 1990
(Mis)diagnosed IBS, fibromyalgia '80's and '90's
Diagnosed psoriatic arthritis 2004
Self-diagnosed gluten intolerant, gluten-free Nov. 2007
Soy free March 2008
Nightshade free Feb 2009
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Potato starch free July 2009
(Totally) corn free Nov. 2009
Legume free March 2010
Now tolerant of lactose

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#10 RiceGuy

 
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:37 AM

I used the flat paddle last week when I tried my first loaf. The dough rose to the top, but lost height while baking and cooling. (It didn't fall)

Today, I used the dough hook. What the heck is it for anyway? Made sense to me. Anyway, again the dough rose to the top and after about 45 min. rising, began to lose height. It continued to go down as it baked and consequently, my slices are only 2 inches high. It's smaller than the one I made last week. It's delicious, but what's wrong? Shouldn't it be taller than that? After all that work, all those ingredients, and cleaning up half the dishes in my kitchen, shouldn't there be a greater reward?

I've found that over-rising will lead to exactly what you describe. It can't continue rising as much as wheat dough. If it goes too high, the binders simply cannot hold the bubbles any more, and they begin to collapse. Keep in mind that some of the rise should occur during baking. I find that the softer the dough, the more of the total rise should occur during baking. Thus it shouldn't be allowed to get too tall before then. Another factor can be insufficient water, but it sounds like the recipe you're using is tried and true.

I recently discovered that my measuring cup is inaccurate. It would not surprise me if others also have trouble because the measurements aren't the same as those of the recipe's originator.
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#11 WVSweetie Pie

 
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:13 AM

I've found that over-rising will lead to exactly what you describe. It can't continue rising as much as wheat dough. If it goes too high, the binders simply cannot hold the bubbles any more, and they begin to collapse. Keep in mind that some of the rise should occur during baking. I find that the softer the dough, the more of the total rise should occur during baking. Thus it shouldn't be allowed to get too tall before then. Another factor can be insufficient water, but it sounds like the recipe you're using is tried and true.

I recently discovered that my measuring cup is inaccurate. It would not surprise me if others also have trouble because the measurements aren't the same as those of the recipe's originator.



Thanks, Rice Guy, I never dreamed that perhaps the bread was over-rising. I'll keep that in mind next time. Yes, that recipe has been used by many with great success, but I am new to breadmaking using all the various ingredients. Before this, I had always used the Bob Mills gluten-free multigrain bread mix, but found myself reacting recently to it for some reason. I had successfully used it for over 2 years and loved it.


I also wondered about beating the dough. I will use my flat paddle again as I did the first time. The recipe calls for beating the dough for 3-4 minutes on medium. One person even mentioned beating hers on high for 5 minutes. How would beating it for too little or too much affect the dough? Could it have a bearing on my results?

I will check my measuring cups also.
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#12 RiceGuy

 
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:15 AM

The recipe calls for beating the dough for 3-4 minutes on medium. One person even mentioned beating hers on high for 5 minutes. How would beating it for too little or too much affect the dough? Could it have a bearing on my results?

Beating for too short a time may lead to uneven distribution of the ingredients. But I am not aware of any real problems from beating a little longer or a little faster. The suggested 3-4 minutes should be sufficient. Too long can allow the dough to cool more, and thus may require a little extra rise time. It may also allow the dough to lose additional moisture due to evaporation. The room's temperature and humidity will have some bearing on these factors.

I have also found that covering the pan while the dough rises is very important. Otherwise the surface of the dough tends to dry out, crack, and thus allows the gas from the yeast, and the steam created during baking, to escape. Thereby leading to a much-reduced height.
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#13 WVSweetie Pie

 
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:33 AM

Thanks, again, RiceGuy for your thoughts and experience. I'll keep these things in mind when I try this recipe again. It really is good.
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