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Sometimes, I Really, Really Wonder.


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12 replies to this topic

#1 T.H.

 
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Posted 24 October 2010 - 10:34 PM

I've heard that a lot of Celiacs are sensitive to soy, have very nasty symptoms to it, etc...

And then I heard this: soy beans are often grown as a rotation crop with wheat, where wheat is harvested and then soy beans are sown in the same field, where they grow and get covered in whatever left over wheat pieces are left on the ground so gluten touches them all over. And they they are harvested with the same harvesters, etc...


So is it just me, or does it seem reasonable to have that brief thought: for some of us, could our sensitivity to soy beans actually be a reaction to severe CC of the soybean crop?

I'd be curious if anyone who is sensitive to soy (not allergic) has reactions that are similar to their gluten reaction, or if they are completely different. Just thinking about this, honestly, as I'm working out what my daughter can eat and what we need to keep her away from.
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T.H.

Gluten free since August 10, 2009.
21 years with undiagnosed Celiac Disease

23 years with undiagnosed sulfite sensitivity

25 years with undiagnosed mast cell activation disorder (MCAD) 

 

Daughter: celiac and MCAD positive

Son: gluten intolerant
Father, brother: celiac positive


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#2 yolo

 
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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:29 PM

I've heard that a lot of Celiacs are sensitive to soy, have very nasty symptoms to it, etc...

And then I heard this: soy beans are often grown as a rotation crop with wheat, where wheat is harvested and then soy beans are sown in the same field, where they grow and get covered in whatever left over wheat pieces are left on the ground so gluten touches them all over. And they they are harvested with the same harvesters, etc...


So is it just me, or does it seem reasonable to have that brief thought: for some of us, could our sensitivity to soy beans actually be a reaction to severe CC of the soybean crop?

I'd be curious if anyone who is sensitive to soy (not allergic) has reactions that are similar to their gluten reaction, or if they are completely different. Just thinking about this, honestly, as I'm working out what my daughter can eat and what we need to keep her away from.


Wow that is quite a thought! I am interested in what others have to say about it.

I think I do have a reaction to most grains though not as intensely as the wheat family. I often wonder if its also a problem of similar CC-ing...

I am not strictly allergic to soy but have been told it is bad for me so I stay away from it. I don't really think its that good for most people unless its fermented and gluten-free of course!.

Meanwhile I am considering hypnosis to help me be less reactive to breathing in dust that is CC with gluten... How far do our reactions go?? Can we intervene and affect the mind/body connection? Somehow as sensitives we need to investigate all these matters...

Bea
  • 1
Diagnosed celiac sprue as infant: failure to thrive & pneumonia-back on grains age 4. Began herbs 1971 combating chronic kidney disease/general ill health 1973. Avoid wheat family and "allergens" by 1980. Late 80's doc. diagnosed candida: cave-man diet. Diagnosed degraded myelin sheath 2006; need co-enzyme B vitamins. Discovered celiac fall 2007; finally told diagnosis as infant. Recently found I am salicylic acid intolerant. Ironically can't tolerate most herbs now. Can now eat brown rice & other gluten-free grains (except corn) & even maple syrup & now homeopathic medicine works! Am still exploring the shape of this elephant but I've made progress!

#3 mushroom

 
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:24 AM

I never had itching from gluten, but once I quit gluten soy made me itch terribly with bright red rash. Later this itching and rash was replicated with potatoes, then itching, rash and hives with citrus. Now, it has all changed again, and everything just gives me bloating and a-fib, except for gluten which still gives me that nauseous throw-up kinda feeling, deep down where you can't get rid of it and it makes you retch at the same time. Soy never has done this for me. But I knew I did not tolerate soy (and corn and lactose) before I found out about the gluten. The only common thread I have found to my non-gluten reactions is lectins.
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Neroli


"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." - Albert Einstein

"Life is not weathering the storm; it is learning to dance in the rain"

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Caffeine free 1973
Lactose free 1990
(Mis)diagnosed IBS, fibromyalgia '80's and '90's
Diagnosed psoriatic arthritis 2004
Self-diagnosed gluten intolerant, gluten-free Nov. 2007
Soy free March 2008
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Citric acid free June 2009
Potato starch free July 2009
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#4 dilettantesteph

 
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 04:11 AM

I think that there is true soy intolerance and there is a reaction to cc. To distinguish them, buy Edaname in the shell. Wash, shell and eat. I can't eat soy containing things with a reaction, but I can eat Edaname like that.
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#5 GlutenFreeManna

 
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:16 AM

My reaction to soy is mostly different, with some overlapping symptoms. Clear as mud? lol.

With gluten I have neuro reactions AND digestive reactions.

With Soy I have all of the neuro reactions but fewer of the digestive reactions. The reactions also tends to depend on what form the soy is in for me. I can't handle soy flour or eddamame at all (will have neuro and some digestion problems). Soy oil and soy lectin does not give me as bad of a reaction (but I do still have a build up reaction if I eat them on a regular basis so I don't buy products with these in them). When I am eating out I don't worry if fries are cooked in soybean oil. I just worry about cross contamination and if ordering something like a gluten-free pizza crust I do ask if it has soy flour. I eat out so rarely and it's hard enough to be gluten free that it's worth risking that something is cooking in soybean oil (AKA Vegetable oil) if I have a little brain fog or headache later. And sometimes eliminating things cooked with soy oil makes it impossible to eat at a restuarant with a gluten-free menu. I also can get away with snaeaking some chocolate with soy lectin about once a month, but I try not to push my luck. I do keep soy free chocolate subs around, but they are never as creamy and yummy as the choclate with soy added.

In a nutshell soy and gluten are not at all the same for me as far as how strict I am and how severe my reactions are. But that is very interesting about soy and wheat being grown in the same fields. I'm wondering if wheat is also CC'd with soy so that my neuro reactions to gluten are actually due to the soy cc'd in the wheat. It would be intersting to take a poll of people here with neuro reactions to gluten and see how many also avoid soy.
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A simple meal with love is better than a feast where there is hatred. Proverbs 15:17 (CEV)

#6 srall

 
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:25 AM

If I eat too much soy I get eczema and eventually sore joints. Whereas with gluten D, C, brain fog, sore joints, etc etc etc.
I often wonder though if my problem with corn is actually CC. I can't quite figure it out, and I always have a gluten response to it.
However I can eat gluten free oats, in relatively small amounts with no huge side effects. It is all so hard to figure out, I know.
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#7 ksymonds84

 
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:35 AM

I get itchy red splotches on my face and upper chest with soy and soy lecithin. I hate that Orieda has soybean oil coating their french fries. Tried them again over the weekend and splotches the next day. :(
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Kathy

Gluten free 3/08
Negative blood work/positive endoscopy
Fructose Malabsorption
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#8 GFinDC

 
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:57 PM

I get different reactions, but neither are pleasant. Soy is a standard rotation crop since it puts nitrogen in the soil. So there is always a chance of the last crop grown sprouting some volunteers. And then there is storage on the farm in large silos, using a conveyor belt, hauling by a truck to a collection center and storage, then selling and delivery to a buyer via another truck. Then possibly grinding and packaging in a shared facility with shared equipment. And then people eating the stuff with a shared mouth. I guess we don't have much choice there though. :)

I linked a couple Youtube videos of soy harvesting and corn harvesting below. They both have catchy music to entertain you as you marvel at the precision and deft separation of the various plant types being harvested. Basically anything in front of the machine gets chopped down, cut off, if it fits the size specs blown into the wagon. There are separators on some modern combine models that can eliminate undesirable items like rocks, birds, snakes etc that would gum up the works. They actually sound pretty good on newer more expensive machines. Good for something moving at the speed these things operate that is.

I have never actually run a combine but I watched one on Utube.

soy harvesting

Corn harvesting

Corn eating Method
Corn eating


Soy for everyone

Soybeans in the Farm Ecosystem

Soy and crop rotation


Tofu and soy oil come from soy bean plants that are grown on farms. Many farmers grow soy beans as cash crops that they can send to places such as tofu processing plants. Soybean plants are legumes. Legumes have bacteria on nodules which are on the roots of the plant. The bacteria on the nodules takes nitrogen from the air and fixes it into the soil, so that other plants that require nitrogen can use it as well.

This nitrogen cycle that was breifly discussed above is used in what farmers call a crop rotation. Farmers use soybeans and other legumes in roatations with grass crops such as corn or wheat. Grass crops are unable to take their own nitrogen from the air so they either need the nitrogen in the soil that the legumes provide for them in a crop rotation or they need a chemical fertilizer containing nitrogen. Many farmers choose to use both. Most farmers use a two or four year rotation on their fields. In a two year rotation a farmer will alternate a year of a legume such as soybeans and a year of a grass crop such as corn. In a four year rotation a farmer will alternate back and forth between legumes and grass crops just as in a two year rotation, but instead he will use four differnt crops. For example, a farmer may plant a rotation of soybeans, corn, alfalfa (a legume), then wheat (a grass).
  • 1
Proverbs 25:16 "Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it."
Job 30:27 My bowels boiled, and rested not: the days of affliction prevented me.
Thyroid cyst and nodules, Lactose / casein intolerant. Diet positive, gene test pos, symptoms confirmed by Dr-head. My current bad list is: gluten, dairy, sulfites, coffee (the devil's brew), tea, Bug's Bunnies carrots, garbanzo beans of pain, soy- no joy, terrible turnips, tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, and hard work. have a good day! :-) Paul

#9 yolo

 
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Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:52 PM

Well--maybe that in part explains why I don't tolerate grains in general or legumes except for chinese peas or string beans. CC everywhere simply in the growth and processing of grains and legumes!!

Nevertheless I would like to experience less problems simply walking around the dusty aisles of Home Depot for instance... They use glutenous starch in sheet rock etc. etc. etc. Not to speak of getting the gluten-free items next to the bins of wheat etc. at Whole Foods.

I should probably start a new thread on the body/mind connection in relation to CC once I experiment with hypnosis on this subject. My boyfriend already has less migraines from CC as a result of hypnosis for instance. He too is a sensitive celiac.

However in the meanwhile its my belief these CC conditions are inter-related. It is hard to live in a world permeated by gluten--so we all need to do what we can to increase our tolerance of it... whether through mind/body, diet, herbs, supplements, exercise etc.

I don't want to frequently experience what I did recently at a night class-- freaking out because everyone else is sharing cupcakes! And then have someone ask (who knows of my condition) "Oh am I bothering you because I am too close?" I don't think it affected me being there; however it was hard to say since I already was reacting to the gluten from the aisles of Home Depot. Nevertheless it was un-nerving.

Bea
  • 0
Diagnosed celiac sprue as infant: failure to thrive & pneumonia-back on grains age 4. Began herbs 1971 combating chronic kidney disease/general ill health 1973. Avoid wheat family and "allergens" by 1980. Late 80's doc. diagnosed candida: cave-man diet. Diagnosed degraded myelin sheath 2006; need co-enzyme B vitamins. Discovered celiac fall 2007; finally told diagnosis as infant. Recently found I am salicylic acid intolerant. Ironically can't tolerate most herbs now. Can now eat brown rice & other gluten-free grains (except corn) & even maple syrup & now homeopathic medicine works! Am still exploring the shape of this elephant but I've made progress!

#10 Skylark

 
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Posted 26 October 2010 - 02:44 PM

Responses to allergy or intolerance triggers are definitely affected by stress and fear. You might find Emotional Freedom Technique helpful, Bea. I used it to get my mind/body used to eating milk and soy again once my gut healed. http://www.clearpoin...s/eftmanual.pdf is the original free EFT manual. Sadly, the guy that worked it out has retired and the site he used to run is very commercial now.

That's interesting info on crop rotation with legumes. It makes perfect sense that soy would be used to fix nitrogen in wheat fields.
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#11 cassP

 
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Posted 26 October 2010 - 07:57 PM

this is all so interesting.. this crop rotation! i wonder if this contributes to corn & soy being issues for so many of us... i also suspect the Genetic Modification messes with our bodies
  • 1
1986- Elevated Speckled ANA/no Lupus.negative Sjorgens
2008- AntiGliadin IGA/IGg~ Negative,TTG IGA/IGg~ Weak Positive, Endomysial Antibody~ Positive, IGA Deficient.
no biopsy (insurance denied)
6/2010- Enterolab Gene Test:
HLA-DQB1 Allele 1 0302
HLA-DQB1 Allele 2 0302
HLADQ 3,3 (subtype 8,8)
7/2010- 100% Gluten Free
8/2010- DH
10/2010-Hypothyroid dx-> 12/2010 Hashimoto's dx + 1/11- Graves dx :(

#12 Marz

 
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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:10 AM

Was just thinking this myself - how much of my intolerance to soya could be linked to CC with gluten. I mean if they can find up to 2000ppm of gluten in soy flour, how many ppm of gluten may be in processed soy products made with that flour or derived from the same source?

My reaction to soya does seem different though, and it's similar to oats, in that it truly makes me extremely ill. While gluten will cause pain and nausea etc, usually with an episode or two on the loo a few days on, soy will give me the runs for half a day. At least that seems to be the case - I tried some Ensure powder last week (contains soy, "gluten-free"), and it made me so sick I don't want to touch soya ever again.

And it's really a pity, since it seems everyone *loves* to coat all their meats and dishes with soy sauce - now I have to add another line to my speech at restaurants - no gluten, no wheat flour, yes white flour is wheat, no bread, please don't put any basting or soy sauce on my fillet, thanks... :)
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Feb 2010 - Start of continuous GIT problems and panic attacks
July 2010 - Blood and biopsy -ve, went gluten free after testing which completely relieved symptoms
July 2011 - 1 year gluten free, food intolerances (Chicken, eggs, olives, goat milk) gone!

2012 - Soy no longer a problem
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Gluten intolerant

#13 cassP

 
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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:45 AM

Was just thinking this myself - how much of my intolerance to soya could be linked to CC with gluten. I mean if they can find up to 2000ppm of gluten in soy flour, how many ppm of gluten may be in processed soy products made with that flour or derived from the same source?

My reaction to soya does seem different though, and it's similar to oats, in that it truly makes me extremely ill. While gluten will cause pain and nausea etc, usually with an episode or two on the loo a few days on, soy will give me the runs for half a day. At least that seems to be the case - I tried some Ensure powder last week (contains soy, "gluten-free"), and it made me so sick I don't want to touch soya ever again.

And it's really a pity, since it seems everyone *loves* to coat all their meats and dishes with soy sauce - now I have to add another line to my speech at restaurants - no gluten, no wheat flour, yes white flour is wheat, no bread, please don't put any basting or soy sauce on my fillet, thanks... :)


annoying isnt it... we just had a work dinner at Abuelo's ... granted they were very NICE to me and accomadating- told me i couldnt have the fajita steak.... i ask why?... because they sautee it in SOY SAUCE!!!! WHY flavor a mexican styled steak with SOY SAUCE???????? GEEZ
  • 1
1986- Elevated Speckled ANA/no Lupus.negative Sjorgens
2008- AntiGliadin IGA/IGg~ Negative,TTG IGA/IGg~ Weak Positive, Endomysial Antibody~ Positive, IGA Deficient.
no biopsy (insurance denied)
6/2010- Enterolab Gene Test:
HLA-DQB1 Allele 1 0302
HLA-DQB1 Allele 2 0302
HLADQ 3,3 (subtype 8,8)
7/2010- 100% Gluten Free
8/2010- DH
10/2010-Hypothyroid dx-> 12/2010 Hashimoto's dx + 1/11- Graves dx :(




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