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Beer Research Into Ppm Of Gluten


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8 replies to this topic

#1 fallout1

 
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 01:44 PM

Just read this interesting article on beer ELISA testing: http://www.foodsmatt...re_testing.html

It seems that we just don't know the true effects of horedins yet..But if we go off the Swedish study that tested several beers for gluten content, there are a wide variety of standard beers with well under 20/ppm.

http://www.slv.se/up...lsorter2009.pdf

If the beers listed are <20ppm does anyone think these beers could be ingested safely?

And please, I am genuinely curious, militant celiacs please control thyselves.
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#2 Marilyn R

 
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 04:48 PM

Just read this interesting article on beer ELISA testing: http://www.foodsmatt...re_testing.html

It seems that we just don't know the true effects of horedins yet..But if we go off the Swedish study that tested several beers for gluten content, there are a wide variety of standard beers with well under 20/ppm.

http://www.slv.se/up...lsorter2009.pdf

If the beers listed are <20ppm does anyone think these beers could be ingested safely?

And please, I am genuinely curious, militant celiacs please control thyselves.


I want to thank you, those were some interesting links. I kind of got wrapped up in the first one, and will hit that site again.

It's an interesting proposition you presented. I've enjoyed beer my entire adult life until going gluten-free. I've tried several of the gluten-free beers, can't say that they appealed to me or hurt me as much as some of the processed gluten-free foods have. (But everyone reacts differently.) I guess if I were to try one, it would be the Holland Beer Grolsche served ice cold. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to have two or three though.

I'm pretty sensitive, have neurological reactions to gluten, so I can't test it. If you give it a whirl, I'd be interested to learn how it went.
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Positive improvement from elimination diet. Mother dx'd by Mayo Clinic in late 1980s. Negative blood tests and Upper & Lower GI biopsy. Parathyroidectomy 12/09. Recurring high calcium level 4/10. Gluten-free 4/10. Soy & Dairy Free 6/10. Corn free 7/10. Grain free except rice 8/10. Legume free 6/11. Fighting the battle of the battle within myself, and I'm going to win!

As of 2/12, tolerating dairy, corn, legumes and some soy, but I limit soy to tamari sauce or modest soy additives. Won't ever try quinoa again!

Discoid Lupus from skin biopsy 2011, discovered 2/12 when picking up medical records. Systemic Lupus Dx 6/12. Shingles 10/12.

#3 fallout1

 
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 08:49 PM

I'm pretty sensitive, have neurological reactions to gluten, so I can't test it. If you give it a whirl, I'd be interested to learn how it went.


If there was any internal damage I'd be hard pressed to know as I don't really get any manifestations personally. Those beer readings were for 1 liter as well. 33oz to 1L is around 2.75-3 beers at 12oz a piece. Some tested at 0 or not present even. It seems like beer companies could really be at the forefront by investing in some testing and being able to market their beer as gluten-free. I'd like to discuss the proposition with doctor or someone with some knowledge, but I admit I'm tempted.
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#4 T.H.

 
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:17 PM

I'd be wary. If you can tolerate the whole 'processed in the same facility' thing, which is sounds like you can, I'd still be concerned, primarily because the testing itself seems to be an issue.

A while back I saw an article aimed at manufacturers who are thinking of using barley malt, and it said this:
"It is a bit tricky to accurately test for barley hordein in food. One assay, the sandwich omega-gliadin ELISA, severely underestimates gluten from barley, having a cross-reactivity of only 4 to 8%. Another assay, the sandwich R5 ELISA, overestimates gluten from barley by a factor of 2.

When it comes to testing for gluten in a highly hydrolyzed product, such as barley malt, the test that usually overestimates barley contamination (i.e., the sandwich R5 ELISA) may now underestimate it. There is an assay available for testing hydrolyzed ingredients–the competitive R5 ELISA—but the unit of measure for this assay is gluten peptides versus gluten. Unfortunately, it is somewhat difficult to evaluate peptide concentration in terms of parts per million of gluten."
( barley malt in gluten-free foods )

With the mention that the competitive R5 ELISA is difficult to evaluate in terms of ppm, that makes me think that the Swedish study likely didn't use this test, which would make it less accurate (Did you know what test they used, by any chance?).

If I understand things correctly, it just doesn't seem like the tests are up to the standards that would be useful for celiacs, at least when it comes to barley.

Is there any beer that's not gluten free but uses wheat or rye instead of barley? (Yes, I'm woefully beer-ignorant.) I believe the tests are more accurate for these two grains, so perhaps they might be a better place to start looking than with the problematic barley?
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T.H.

Gluten free since August 10, 2009.
21 years with undiagnosed Celiac Disease

23 years with undiagnosed sulfite sensitivity

25 years with undiagnosed mast cell activation disorder (MCAD) 

 

Daughter: celiac and MCAD positive

Son: gluten intolerant
Father, brother: celiac positive


#5 killernj13

 
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Posted 09 August 2011 - 06:04 AM

I have had that Spanish Beer that claims to be less than 20 PPM's while being barly based and I have felt sick both times.
Conversely, I have been drinking Mike's Lemonade all summer and have felt fine. They have started putting gluten free on two on their light products with the familiar claim that the gluten is removed in the processing.

So this is a tough one to make a decision on.
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#6 RL2011

 
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Posted 09 August 2011 - 06:20 AM

Great information!


Thank you.
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Richard

#7 fallout1

 
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Posted 09 August 2011 - 07:41 AM

I'd be wary. If you can tolerate the whole 'processed in the same facility' thing, which is sounds like you can, I'd still be concerned, primarily because the testing itself seems to be an issue.

A while back I saw an article aimed at manufacturers who are thinking of using barley malt, and it said this:
"It is a bit tricky to accurately test for barley hordein in food. One assay, the sandwich omega-gliadin ELISA, severely underestimates gluten from barley, having a cross-reactivity of only 4 to 8%. Another assay, the sandwich R5 ELISA, overestimates gluten from barley by a factor of 2.

When it comes to testing for gluten in a highly hydrolyzed product, such as barley malt, the test that usually overestimates barley contamination (i.e., the sandwich R5 ELISA) may now underestimate it. There is an assay available for testing hydrolyzed ingredients–the competitive R5 ELISA—but the unit of measure for this assay is gluten peptides versus gluten. Unfortunately, it is somewhat difficult to evaluate peptide concentration in terms of parts per million of gluten."
( barley malt in gluten-free foods )

With the mention that the competitive R5 ELISA is difficult to evaluate in terms of ppm, that makes me think that the Swedish study likely didn't use this test, which would make it less accurate (Did you know what test they used, by any chance?).

If I understand things correctly, it just doesn't seem like the tests are up to the standards that would be useful for celiacs, at least when it comes to barley.

Is there any beer that's not gluten free but uses wheat or rye instead of barley? (Yes, I'm woefully beer-ignorant.) I believe the tests are more accurate for these two grains, so perhaps they might be a better place to start looking than with the problematic barley?


This is all very good information. I feel like many in the Celiac community are so set on avoiding and saying "no" that they overlook possibilities such as this to make life a bit easier. Granted all react in different ways. It just seems like such a crapshoot sometimes. You have people on one extreme who bring their own food to restaurants and make a scene, and then others who try to live a semblance of a normal life and struggle when out with friends and what not to find something naturally gluten-free just to get by. Even the foods that are gluten-free are "processed in facilities" as you mentioned. The bins with "clean" quinoa and beans,etc often have gluten traces in them. So how much gluten are we really ingesting on a regular basis and not knowing? I try my best to always avoid gluten but when it's in a sauce or bag of chips and I'm caught unawares, then what the hell is the point? It just seems like a losing battle unless you are extremely anal and scrutinize everything to the point of insanity. I want to do my best but acknowledge that I'm probably getting some contamination despite my best efforts.

Sometimes it just feels like polishing brass on the Titanic..and knocking down a cold beer w/ <20ppm would just make all the difference in the world =)
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#8 Skylark

 
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Posted 09 August 2011 - 08:39 AM

The thing that would concern me is batch-to-batch variability in the beer. There is a fair amount of variability within brewers, and there is only a single sample of each beer. Even if the PPM gluten were reliable, I would still read that list as "beer tends to have >20 ppm gluten."
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#9 Marilyn R

 
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Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:16 PM

You might find this old thread interesting.

http://www.celiac.co...er-no-problems/
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Positive improvement from elimination diet. Mother dx'd by Mayo Clinic in late 1980s. Negative blood tests and Upper & Lower GI biopsy. Parathyroidectomy 12/09. Recurring high calcium level 4/10. Gluten-free 4/10. Soy & Dairy Free 6/10. Corn free 7/10. Grain free except rice 8/10. Legume free 6/11. Fighting the battle of the battle within myself, and I'm going to win!

As of 2/12, tolerating dairy, corn, legumes and some soy, but I limit soy to tamari sauce or modest soy additives. Won't ever try quinoa again!

Discoid Lupus from skin biopsy 2011, discovered 2/12 when picking up medical records. Systemic Lupus Dx 6/12. Shingles 10/12.




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