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Bacterial Overgrowth Or Coeliac? (Gas Issues)


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34 replies to this topic

#16 burdee

 
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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:44 PM

I don't believe my gas is correlated - TO ANYTHING - now. It's frustrating. I can eat pancakes with lots of syrup in the morning and have no problems. Lunch I can eat an italian hoagie and be fine. But last night I ate steak and mashed potatoes and a few hours later I had gas. I actually just started align so I am not sure if I can blame the new gas on that.

For a while it was gas every afternoon. Then it turned into stomach gas that couldn't come out in the evenings. Now it's just completely random gas either in the afternoon, evening, or both. I've gone gluten free for a week and a half and noticed little improvement. I don't eat dairy so it can't be lactose intolerance. I've tried keeping a journal of what bothers me and it seems to point to carbs. However, some meals I eat tons of carbs and have no problems whereas others (or even the same meal) a different day causes gas.


The problem with gluten intolerance and most food allergies (which docs won't test for) is that they are DELAYED reaction allergies. Those are IgG or IgA antibody mediated allergies. Most allergists only test for those immediate reaction, anaphylactic IgE mediated allergies. Also there's a huge debate over whether to call IgG and/or IgA reactions 'allergies' or 'intolerance'. However both immediate reactions and delayed reactions from food antibodies are immune reactions. Intolerances (like lactose intolerance) are caused by inadequate enzyme production (like no lactase to digest lactose). So you actually could be reacting (after the steak and potato dinner) to the pancakes you ate for breakfast. Some people react more quickly. Others don't react until 24-36 hours later to the gluten or casein (milk protein) which they consumed in a meal.

Rather than guess, get tested for gluten intolerance. There are also blood tests for other delayed reaction allergens. Many naturopaths use blood tests for allergies. Most 'traditional docs' will test you for IgE or immediate reaction allergies. If you had an immediate reaction (anaphlactic) allergy, you would get more severe symptoms than gas. However, you could have several delayed reaction food allergies and not easily identify the exact foods which caused your reactions. You could be allergic to almost any food.
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Gluten, dairy, soy, egg, cane sugar, vanilla and nutmeg free. Enterolab diagnosed gluten/casein intolerant 7/04; soy intolerant 8/07. ELISA test diagnosed egg/cane sugar IgG allergies 8/06; vanilla/nutmeg 8/06. 2006-10 diagnosed by DNA Microbial stool tests and successfully treated: Klebsiella, Enterobacter Cloaecae, Cryptosporidia, Candida, C-diff, Achromobacter, H. Pylori and Dientamoeba Fragilis. 6/10 Heidelberg capsule test diagnosed hypochloridia. Vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroiditis, hypochloridia and low white blood cells caused vulnerability to infections. I now take Betaine HCl, probiotics, Vitamin D and T3 thyroid supplement to maintain immunity.


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#17 pretordan

 
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 03:47 PM

The problem with gluten intolerance and most food allergies (which docs won't test for) is that they are DELAYED reaction allergies. Those are IgG or IgA antibody mediated allergies. Most allergists only test for those immediate reaction, anaphylactic IgE mediated allergies. Also there's a huge debate over whether to call IgG and/or IgA reactions 'allergies' or 'intolerance'. However both immediate reactions and delayed reactions from food antibodies are immune reactions. Intolerances (like lactose intolerance) are caused by inadequate enzyme production (like no lactase to digest lactose). So you actually could be reacting (after the steak and potato dinner) to the pancakes you ate for breakfast. Some people react more quickly. Others don't react until 24-36 hours later to the gluten or casein (milk protein) which they consumed in a meal.

Rather than guess, get tested for gluten intolerance. There are also blood tests for other delayed reaction allergens. Many naturopaths use blood tests for allergies. Most 'traditional docs' will test you for IgE or immediate reaction allergies. If you had an immediate reaction (anaphlactic) allergy, you would get more severe symptoms than gas. However, you could have several delayed reaction food allergies and not easily identify the exact foods which caused your reactions. You could be allergic to almost any food.



I certainly have delayed reactions. I don't think I've ever eaten a food and had an issue right away - it is always at least 1 hour after, but more recently 4-8 hours. I have another quick question. When a person is "glutened" do they have symptoms for a few hours or are they lasting? The reason why I ask, is that I have periods during the day where I am fine even if I ate a lot of dairy or wheat the day before. The gas from yesterday rarely travels into the next day. Yesterday I had the bloating/gas and woke up fine. I was fine for a few hours but like clockwork, in the afternoon, the gas came back. But I have had NO dairy or gluten today. I am curious if glutening issues only occur when there is food in the intestines.
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#18 mushroom

 
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:40 PM

Well, I suppose the obvious answer to your question is that when there is no food in the intestines they are not having to work, they can relax and work on the healing part. But they are still damaged, and when you ask a damaged intestine to do some hard work like digestion it is going to complain and create symptoms. It is all a part of the healing process, you know, Rome wasn't built in a day, blah blah, blah blah :P Symptoms last for varying times with diferent people. Some people swear they have symptoms for two weeks after a glutening; mine is normally a couple of days. What is normal for you is normal :)

Once you go gluten free and your body is no longer fighting the constant onslaught of gluten, the symptoms become more marked and usually more severe. If you are still eating a gluten diet then anything is possible. Pizza used to be my "comfort food" - never gave me any problems :rolleyes:
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Neroli


"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." - Albert Einstein

"Life is not weathering the storm; it is learning to dance in the rain"

"Whatever the question, the answer is always chocolate." Nigella Lawson

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Caffeine free 1973
Lactose free 1990
(Mis)diagnosed IBS, fibromyalgia '80's and '90's
Diagnosed psoriatic arthritis 2004
Self-diagnosed gluten intolerant, gluten-free Nov. 2007
Soy free March 2008
Nightshade free Feb 2009
Citric acid free June 2009
Potato starch free July 2009
(Totally) corn free Nov. 2009
Legume free March 2010
Now tolerant of lactose

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#19 kendon0015

 
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:20 PM

PLEASE...if you even suspect bacterial overgrowth, go to a Gastroenterologist and beg for a stool sample to be sure. While you're at it, have him do a Celiac panel too. I was self treating for gluten intolerance, and turns out I had C Diff for 8 months! The only thing that kept it from becoming horrible were the probiotics I was taking. Being off gluten for so long, I feel amazingly better in many ways. But the doctor wants me to remain gluten free while healing. PS...I beat the C Diff with Flagyl, but still nervous about a recurrence. Keeping gluten free and will stay on probiotics, specifically Florastor and Culturell for the forseeable future. Good luck....but don't wait to see a doctor like I did!
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#20 pretordan

 
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:47 PM

PLEASE...if you even suspect bacterial overgrowth, go to a Gastroenterologist and beg for a stool sample to be sure. While you're at it, have him do a Celiac panel too. I was self treating for gluten intolerance, and turns out I had C Diff for 8 months! The only thing that kept it from becoming horrible were the probiotics I was taking. Being off gluten for so long, I feel amazingly better in many ways. But the doctor wants me to remain gluten free while healing. PS...I beat the C Diff with Flagyl, but still nervous about a recurrence. Keeping gluten free and will stay on probiotics, specifically Florastor and Culturell for the forseeable future. Good luck....but don't wait to see a doctor like I did!



I did go to a GI doctor 3 weeks ago. My only symptom is gas and even then it's presentation is bizarre. The doctor did do a coeliac screen but I haven't heard back which I am assuming meant it was unremarkable. I did bring up bacterial overgrowth with him and he said my presentation is not at all consistent with what he has seen. I have had a coeliac biopsy before which came negative but he said it wouldn't hurt to do the blood test again. Judging that I have gone gluten free for a week and had 0 change and that I don't eat dairy my last guess would be anxiety, This. This right here. Is very frustrating.
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#21 mushroom

 
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:56 PM

The doctor did do a coeliac screen but I haven't heard back which I am assuming meant it was unremarkable.


Never assume! Stuff gets lost or overlooked in doctors' offices. Besides, you should get copies of your tests for your own records - you never know when you will need them or whether they have been misread if you dont.
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Neroli


"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." - Albert Einstein

"Life is not weathering the storm; it is learning to dance in the rain"

"Whatever the question, the answer is always chocolate." Nigella Lawson

------------

Caffeine free 1973
Lactose free 1990
(Mis)diagnosed IBS, fibromyalgia '80's and '90's
Diagnosed psoriatic arthritis 2004
Self-diagnosed gluten intolerant, gluten-free Nov. 2007
Soy free March 2008
Nightshade free Feb 2009
Citric acid free June 2009
Potato starch free July 2009
(Totally) corn free Nov. 2009
Legume free March 2010
Now tolerant of lactose

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator

#22 pretordan

 
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:29 AM

Called up the doc - besides a slightly elevated calcium (which I have had for years) everything was normal. Coeliac came back negative as suspected. So after two blood tests and an endoscopy which say I am negative, I don't have any reason to question it.
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#23 mushroom

 
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:24 AM

You can be negative on all testing and still have problems with gluten (and milk) if you have done any reading around the board. :)
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Neroli


"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." - Albert Einstein

"Life is not weathering the storm; it is learning to dance in the rain"

"Whatever the question, the answer is always chocolate." Nigella Lawson

------------

Caffeine free 1973
Lactose free 1990
(Mis)diagnosed IBS, fibromyalgia '80's and '90's
Diagnosed psoriatic arthritis 2004
Self-diagnosed gluten intolerant, gluten-free Nov. 2007
Soy free March 2008
Nightshade free Feb 2009
Citric acid free June 2009
Potato starch free July 2009
(Totally) corn free Nov. 2009
Legume free March 2010
Now tolerant of lactose

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator

#24 Skylark

 
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 04:43 PM

I did go to a GI doctor 3 weeks ago. My only symptom is gas and even then it's presentation is bizarre. The doctor did do a coeliac screen but I haven't heard back which I am assuming meant it was unremarkable. I did bring up bacterial overgrowth with him and he said my presentation is not at all consistent with what he has seen. I have had a coeliac biopsy before which came negative but he said it wouldn't hurt to do the blood test again. Judging that I have gone gluten free for a week and had 0 change and that I don't eat dairy my last guess would be anxiety, This. This right here. Is very frustrating.

Duh. I should have seen this sooner. I bet it's fructose malabsorption. It works sort of like lactose intolerance. You can't absorb fructose well so it builds up in your intestines. Bacteria break it down into hydrogen, or if you eat a LOT, you can end up with osmotic diarrhea.

Your eggs, salami, and yogurt breakfast you don't react to has virtually no fructose or fructans especially if it's plain or artificially sweetened yogurt. The bagel with PBJ that gets you has wheat, which has a fair amount of fructans, plus the jelly loads on sugar or even worse high-fructose corn syrup. The ceasar salad is mostly lettuce and low in fructose. A few croutons won't give you enough fructans to cause much trouble compared to the bagel. It's a bulk effect. The sugar you react to is a mix of fructose and glucose and people with fructose malabsorption often tolerate sugar very poorly. Does fruit typically give you digestive trouble? If you can't think of eating apples or pears that's another sure sign of it.

Since it takes time for the fructose to make it to your intestine, and more time for bacteria to work on it, reactions can be somewhat delayed. Frutose and fructans are common and in a lot of foods so it can also seem like you're reacting randomly to everything.

GI doctors in the US have barely heard of fructose malabsorption, which is why the possibility has never been mentioned to you. To figure out if it's the problem you could ask for a fructose challenge and hydrogen breath test. You could also try a low-FODMAP diet for a while - it almost seems like you're there on your own.
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#25 pretordan

 
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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:11 PM

I actually had looked into that - however my symptoms aren't consistent. For instance today, I had eggs/salami for breaksfast, salad for lunch, and chicken salad 3 hours later for a snack. Without fail, 5pm rolls around and I start getting the stomach noises (gurgling, like a back fart). I noticed this morning before my test (I'm in medical school, so I promise to help you all out when I finish), that I got the sensation of the gas starting but as soon as the test started and I got my mind off of it, it went away. Same thing at the barber, I felt a little gurgle, but as soon as we made conversation and I got my mind off of it, it went away.

It would be great if it was just a food intolerance, but there should be some variation or consistency. This all started when I had afternoon classes and I stressed about breaking wind, tooting, letting one out, contributing to the atmosphere, whatever they are calling it these days.

And as a post script, I have a history of anxiety - I gave myself functional dyspepsia/hypochlorhydria for 9 months when I convinced myself I had ALS. Took Reglan and some Betaine HCl to get me normal. I'm not ruling out any pathological processes but nothing makes sense. I have a GI visit Monday, which he already alluded to wanting to put me on Xifaxin, so I'll update then.
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#26 pretordan

 
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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:58 PM

Skylarc -
Sorry for the double reply but I am going to try out the fructose free diet again. Apparently, fructose is in some lettuces, and a bunch more of the food I've been eating than I thought. Wish me luck!
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#27 Skylark

 
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Posted 23 November 2011 - 08:59 PM

Skylarc -
Sorry for the double reply but I am going to try out the fructose free diet again. Apparently, fructose is in some lettuces, and a bunch more of the food I've been eating than I thought. Wish me luck!

Good luck! So you know, my mom who has FM does really well on lean meats and eggs, white rice or potatoes (not brown rice), and dark leafy greens like kale, spinach, or chard. You can start with those foods and expand if it helps. :)
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#28 pretordan

 
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:46 PM

My doctor told me to stop te fructose free diet. He put me on Cipro for 14 days suspecting Sibo.

I am debating going on a gluten free diet again, but longer than one week. I read that it can take several weeks to feel better. My main question is, for people who are gluten intolerant, before you started your gluten free diet would you get symptoms after every meal or was it a round the clock bloating/gas symptoms etc with no relevance to meal times?
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#29 pretordan

 
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Posted 30 November 2011 - 05:00 AM

Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear. Before you went gluten free did you have symptoms after any meal - or were you able to correlate it to certain foods or time of the day. If you ate a salad would you still get symptoms until you healed from the gluten inflammation?
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#30 stelle9

 
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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:08 PM

I'm so glad I found this post--my symptoms are EXACTLY the same, and I am just as confused as you are as to how to move forward. Please let me know if you find any solution to this problem, because I've spent countless hours researching, cutting out certain foods, trying different supplements, but there is no clear pattern. So frustrating :( I have not tried antibiotics at this point, but wonder if that is the next step.
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