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Bread Without Gum And Starch


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#1 lemontree1

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:35 AM

I'm going to do some experimenting soon to see how much gum and starches really are necessary in bread. Is there anybody who has already experimented in this area? What were your results? I don't use gum in my cookies or pancakes, and they turn out fine. I'm just not comfortable adding things to my food that may not contribute to my health.
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#2 Glutin-Free Man

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 12:18 PM

I'm going to do some experimenting soon to see how much gum and starches really are necessary in bread. Is there anybody who has already experimented in this area? What were your results? I don't use gum in my cookies or pancakes, and they turn out fine. I'm just not comfortable adding things to my food that may not contribute to my health.

Cookies and pancakes definitely do not need gums. In fact, one of the pitfalls of making pancakes with wheat is that if you stir them too much, the glutens develop, and the pancakes end up tasting tough. gluten-free pancakes are easier to make, since you can stir them as much as you want, with no fear of making long strings of gluten!

For breads, glutens typically act like velcro - they hold everything together. That's how you can get high rising soft breads with wheat flour, but gluten-free breads are (comparatively) dense and crumbly.

Gum doesn't really replace gluten, but it acts in a similar manner, and helps to hold the dough together more when it rises.

I doubt that you'll be able to make a nicely textured bread without some type of stabilizer, but it may be possible to do it without xanthum or guar gum.

I've heard of some people using Psyllium Fiber (the active ingredient in Metamucil) as a replacement for the gums, but I haven't tried it myself. It may be worth a try.

I'd read up a lot on the chemistry of bread baking before you start practicing, and be aware that you may need to make a lot of bread in order to find out what works and what doesn't.
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#3 love2travel

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 12:26 PM

Cookies and pancakes definitely do not need gums. In fact, one of the pitfalls of making pancakes with wheat is that if you stir them too much, the glutens develop, and the pancakes end up tasting tough. gluten-free pancakes are easier to make, since you can stir them as much as you want, with no fear of making long strings of gluten!

For breads, glutens typically act like velcro - they hold everything together. That's how you can get high rising soft breads with wheat flour, but gluten-free breads are (comparatively) dense and crumbly.

Gum doesn't really replace gluten, but it acts in a similar manner, and helps to hold the dough together more when it rises.

I doubt that you'll be able to make a nicely textured bread without some type of stabilizer, but it may be possible to do it without xanthum or guar gum.

I've heard of some people using Psyllium Fiber (the active ingredient in Metamucil) as a replacement for the gums, but I haven't tried it myself. It may be worth a try.

I'd read up a lot on the chemistry of bread baking before you start practicing, and be aware that you may need to make a lot of bread in order to find out what works and what doesn't.

I'm with you.

I've tried bread with psyllium and gelatin with fair results. I've also tried it with psyllium and a gum with better results. Sometimes I've used both xanthan and guar. Many combinations but I know my food science, too. It certainly helps knowing about different ingredients' characteristics, how they interact with other ingredients and their uses.
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<p>Confirmed celiac disease February 2011 from biopsies. Strictly gluten free March 18 2011.Diagnosed with fibromyalgia April 13 2011.3 herniated discs, myofascial pain syndrome, IT band syndrome, 2 rotator cuff injuries - from an accident Dec. 07 - resulting in chronic pain ever since. Degenerative disc disease.Osteoarthritis in back and hips.Chronic insomnia mostly due to chronic pain.Aspartame free May 2011.

When our lives are squeezed by pressure and pain, what comes out is what is inside.

#4 fantasticalice

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:16 AM

I wan to ask WHY people are afraid of gar gum? It's in everything! Take a look on most any packaged food. It's a laxative.....
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#5 Takala

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 12:44 AM

With a pan bread baked in a cast iron skillet, using egg and part amaranth and ground almonds, no gum is needed.

Using a mini loaf pan, I can get small loaves of gluten free bread which are whole grain and whole wheat like, dense, suitable for fresh sliced with butter, toast, or grilled cheese. This bread does hold together, but is not that "flexible" like a gummed bread. I used a mix of flours which includes amaranth and buckwheat and almond, besides the others, because the are "stickier." Used one egg per loaf, but have done it without that. Also used 1 tablespoon chia seed per loaf, soaked in cold water. Tried adding 1/2 to 1 teaspoon soaked in water psyllium as well, that also worked.

See this recipe here, it can be made with an egg added, as well
Gluten free, gum free, yeast free, vegan Buckwheat mini loaf Bread
http://www.celiac.co...-loaf-of-bread/
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#6 pricklypear1971

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:22 AM

Check out these recipes. She uses chia and flax.

http://glutenfreegir...-and-flaxseeds/
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
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#7 lemontree1

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:02 AM

If I use chia seeds, do I need to grind them?
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#8 pricklypear1971

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:34 AM

I haven't seen anyone mention grinding. You do whisk them in water. The longer they sit, the more they dissolve.
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!

#9 Takala

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:10 AM

If I use chia seeds, do I need to grind them?



Nope! You just put them in tap water and stir to wet them. They gel up on their own. If you have kids, they can have fun watching this. The seeds are not that noticeable in the finished bread.

Flax needs to be ground up for this.

Use gluten free psyllium if you try that route.... be sure to soak that in water, also, before adding to any recipe.
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#10 Skylark

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:17 AM

Have you tried any of the grain-free breads? I've been making lovely baked goods from flax meal, almond meal, or coconut fiber. They take a lot of eggs and oil, but no starch or gums.

Try this, only don't use the salt. It's plenty salty from the baking powder.
http://www.elanaspan...ely-bruschetta/
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#11 love2travel

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:20 AM

Have you tried any of the grain-free breads? I've been making lovely baked goods from flax meal, almond meal, or coconut fiber. They take a lot of eggs and oil, but no starch or gums.

Try this, only don't use the salt. It's plenty salty from the baking powder.
http://www.elanaspan...ely-bruschetta/

This does make a decent bread but I do prefer it with a finishing salt on top (that's just me - I love the pure flavour of fleur de sel, not to mention the crunch. I am a texture person. :D ).
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<p>Confirmed celiac disease February 2011 from biopsies. Strictly gluten free March 18 2011.Diagnosed with fibromyalgia April 13 2011.3 herniated discs, myofascial pain syndrome, IT band syndrome, 2 rotator cuff injuries - from an accident Dec. 07 - resulting in chronic pain ever since. Degenerative disc disease.Osteoarthritis in back and hips.Chronic insomnia mostly due to chronic pain.Aspartame free May 2011.

When our lives are squeezed by pressure and pain, what comes out is what is inside.

#12 RiceGuy

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:03 AM

As was stated, pancakes and cookies can turn out well without any gums, and thus far I get better results without much of any binders in pancakes, and none in cookies. I agree with what Glutin-Free Man said.

As for chia seeds, I haven't found any need to grind them. Simply soaking them in water works well - similar to soaking flax seeds. Though flax not only effects the taste, but also remains quite noticeable in the bread, and may detract from the desired result. This is why flax is usually ground before using for its mucilaginous characteristic. However, I've also found chia to be ineffective as a binder in breads. It may have some binding ability, but leaves much to be desired.

Being that gelatin melts at a fairly low temperature, it (and other substances with similar characteristics) are basically ineffective as binders when it comes to achieving a risen bread. Once the bread cools enough, this type of ingredient may contribute to the moistness, and alter the way it feels in the mouth. There may also be some effect on shelf life.

Eggs can work as a kind of binder, but do not function like the gums enough to replace them. Things like cake are where eggs generally have more utility than they do in breads.

Having experimented extensively, I can say without a doubt that xanthan and guar gum are the most effective binders I'm aware of for making gluten-free breads. They are not laxatives, but acting as dietary fibers, can effect the digestive tract the way certain fibers do. Although the amount generally consumed in a serving of bread is rather small, thus the effect should also be quite minimal, if even noticeable at all. That said, some people are very sensitive to them, either because of an intolerance/allergy, or their digestive systems may be more sensitive to certain types of mucilages/fibers, or some other reason. We're all different in that respect. Xanthan is usually derived from the fermentation of corn, while guar gum is from a leguminous tree.

More of what I've learned about using xanthan and guar can be found in this thread.
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#13 pricklypear1971

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:38 AM

As was stated, pancakes and cookies can turn out well without any gums, and thus far I get better results without much of any binders in pancakes, and none in cookies. I agree with what Glutin-Free Man said.

As for chia seeds, I haven't found any need to grind them. Simply soaking them in water works well - similar to soaking flax seeds. Though flax not only effects the taste, but also remains quite noticeable in the bread, and may detract from the desired result. This is why flax is usually ground before using for its mucilaginous characteristic. However, I've also found chia to be ineffective as a binder in breads. It may have some binding ability, but leaves much to be desired.

Being that gelatin melts at a fairly low temperature, it (and other substances with similar characteristics) are basically ineffective as binders when it comes to achieving a risen bread. Once the bread cools enough, this type of ingredient may contribute to the moistness, and alter the way it feels in the mouth. There may also be some effect on shelf life.

Eggs can work as a kind of binder, but do not function like the gums enough to replace them. Things like cake are where eggs generally have more utility than they do in breads.

Having experimented extensively, I can say without a doubt that xanthan and guar gum are the most effective binders I'm aware of for making gluten-free breads. They are not laxatives, but acting as dietary fibers, can effect the digestive tract the way certain fibers do. Although the amount generally consumed in a serving of bread is rather small, thus the effect should also be quite minimal, if even noticeable at all. That said, some people are very sensitive to them, either because of an intolerance/allergy, or their digestive systems may be more sensitive to certain types of mucilages/fibers, or some other reason. We're all different in that respect. Xanthan is usually derived from the fermentation of corn, while guar gum is from a leguminous tree.

More of what I've learned about using xanthan and guar can be found in this thread.


I made pancakes using KA flour. I make a full batch of batter and refrigerate half overnight for the next day's pancakes....

Anyway, the batch using the chia was fine the first day (noticed no difference between using chia and xanthan). Second day it was hideous.

Made another batch leaving out chia and xanthan... first day was better than the two using chia or xanthan. Second day was AWESOME - I guess the flours had time to do some magic. I will no longer use xanthan or chia in my pancakes!!

Thanks for insisting pancakes don't need either, or I wouldn't have tried it!
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!

#14 lemontree1

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 02:34 PM

As much as I really wanted to do some experimenting, it turns out I'm actually sensitive to all grains at the moment. So, no bread for me. :(
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#15 pricklypear1971

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 03:00 PM

As much as I really wanted to do some experimenting, it turns out I'm actually sensitive to all grains at the moment. So, no bread for me. :(



Ooh, that sucks.

Hope you get it straightened out soon.

If you can do nuts and dates and sugar (honestly you could do without the sugar in the recipe), and coconut I posted a bourbon ball recipe the other day that's grain free.
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Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. ~ Mark Twain

Probable Endometriosis, in remission from childbirth since 2002.
Hashimoto's DX 2005.
Gluten-Free since 6/2011.
DH (and therefore Celiac) dx from ND
.
Responsive to iodine withdrawal for DH (see quote, above).

Genetic tests reveal half DQ2, half DQ8 - I'm a weird bird!


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