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Liver Detox Plan


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#1 NoodleUnit

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 05:29 PM

Ok. Cut a long story short. I've started to have gallbladder trouble. Serious issues with fatty foods ( left me ill for the Xmas hols ), and am due for an ultrasound soonish. However I've had more than my share of medical procedures this last year so I want to try and nip anything potentially serious in the bud.

I was and remain skeptical, but am doing the Liver Detox Plan by Xandria Williams as she /seems/ credible to me. I've been on it for a week now, and am finding it quite remarkable. I appear to be losing a whole bunch of fat rapidly which I struggled to lose despite some serious exercise earlier this year. So far 5 lbs in the last 4 days.

According to the book, toxins which have been stored away in fat can get released as you finally metabolise it after all those years of lugging it around. A google around leads to some articles, and Wikipedia entries which seem to back this up too ( look up toxins and adipose tissues ).

Now here's the kicker... I feel glutened. I have total control over my diet right now. Cooking from scratch using the simplest of ingredients. No vinegars, only fish and vegetables plus a little rice. All my supplements are lactose, dairy, soya and gluten free. I have never been more in tune with what I'm eating.

So why do I have the unmistakable sensation of being glutened? Muscle aches, neuropathy are all present. Stomach issues too, but that could simply be the diet change. Is it really possible that I could be re-releasing gluten into my system? Albeit to a lesser extent? Has anyone else done this?
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#2 Lisa

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:18 PM

I am not the best person to reply to your questions, because I have not had an issue maintaining a reasonable weight, when healthy (post diagnosis).

Through this diet, you obviously are missing some minerals/foods to maintain all your mechanics. You might want to reconsider your approach, adding some protein or carbs. Balance is the key.

I have never heard of "re-releasing" gluten into your system, from your body.

And, I'm not a fan of specialty diets. I prefer to think that slimming down your consumption and daily exercise is the best method. Eat cleanly and move your body and expand your mind.

Maybe that's a naturally detox diet. :)
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Lisa

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"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

#3 Skylark

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:42 PM

Adipose tissue definitely stores some interesting stuff. :blink: I heard a story of a woman who lived near a pesticide-sprayed farm. She started losing weight quickly on a low-carb diet and ended up with acute pesticide poisoning. This is from a reliable doctor who was smart enough to figure what was happening and treat her correctly.

Lisa, bioaccumulation of toxins in adipose tissue is well documented. DDT accumulating in bird adipose tissue nearly wiped out a lot of bird species and buildup of methylmercury in fish oils (they are oily rather than fatty) is what makes eating too much tuna dangerous. Humans are not magically immune from the phenomenon. Lose a lot of weight quickly and decades of accumulated heavy metals, PCBs, pesticides, and even prescription medicines have to go somewhere. It's usually your bloodstream.

Gluten is alcohol soluble rather than water soluble so it's not unimaginable that a little could end up in your fat. I've never heard anything one way or the other. I hope it passes quickly, whatever it is! :)
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#4 Lisa

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:14 PM

Adipose tissue definitely stores some interesting stuff. :blink: I heard a story of a woman who lived near a pesticide-sprayed farm. She started losing weight quickly on a low-carb diet and ended up with acute pesticide poisoning. This is from a reliable doctor who was smart enough to figure what was happening and treat her correctly.

Lisa, bioaccumulation of toxins in adipose tissue is well documented. DDT accumulating in bird adipose tissue nearly wiped out a lot of bird species and buildup of methylmercury in fish oils (they are oily rather than fatty) is what makes eating too much tuna dangerous. Humans are not magically immune from the phenomenon. Lose a lot of weight quickly and decades of accumulated heavy metals, PCBs, pesticides, and even prescription medicines have to go somewhere. It's usually your bloodstream.

Gluten is alcohol soluble rather than water soluble so it's not unimaginable that a little could end up in your fat. I've never heard anything one way or the other. I hope it passes quickly, whatever it is! :)



Skylark, my daughter is the chemist, not I. :unsure:

So... could gluten build up in our system, as a toxin and hide only to be released though specific dietary means or by other means? I understand that gluten is the incorrect term. Would it be the gliadin?

It seems reasonable to me that chemicals could find a home in our bodies anywhere, with exposure. But I don't understand how gluten can fire an autoimmune response and then, wait and fire again.

I always respect and appreciate your knowledge :D I learn from everything you post.
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Lisa

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#5 viviendoparajesus

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:31 PM

I do not have any hard evidence or a reference to refer you to. I think gluten or something else your body stored got released and is causing your symptoms. Symptoms are similar for a variety of issues. Not to negate that you feel glutened rather to suggest the possibility that something else can cause a glutened like feeling. I like what the previous posters said in this regard. I wonder is your diet balanced? Best wishes!
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Misdiagnosed - IBS, TMJ, eczema, KP, etc
Real Diagnosis - Gluten & Casein (milk protein) Intolerance, Cross Reactivity to Yeast & Buckwheat
Recommend: Tests: Entero Labs Gluten Sensitivity & Gene Testing
Books: * Allergies by Dr. Carolee Bateson-Koch (digestion, yeast, parasites, body pH...)
* Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms by Dr. Datis Kharrazian (gluten & autoimmune problems)
* Change Your Brain Change Your Life by Dr. Daniel Amen (foods, supplements...)
Supplements: * digestive enzymes, * probiotics (dairy free - Klaire Labs - Pro5)

#6 Skylark

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:32 PM

Skylark, my daughter is the chemist, not I. :unsure:

So... could gluten build up in our system, as a toxin and hide only to be released though specific dietary means or by other means? I understand that gluten is the incorrect term. Would it be the gliadin?

It seems reasonable to me that chemicals could find a home in our bodies anywhere, with exposure. But I don't understand how gluten can fire an autoimmune response and then, wait and fire again.

I always respect and appreciate your knowledge :D I learn from everything you post.

Things build up in your fat like mercury and pesticides. Fat isn't turned over very fast. When you lose weight, the stuff built up there has to go somewhere, usually into your bloodstream.

I really haven't a clue about whether gluten (or gliadin) goes into fat. Supposedly it takes months for casomorphin to work its way out of your brain, which is a very fatty tissue. Because of that, I'm not inclined to dismiss the idea of gluten in adipose tissue out of hand. If you lose weight fast and there is gluten in your fat, it's going to come back out and mess with you a second time around.

I agree this could be a detox symptom or a nutritional issue, but some people have very distinctive gluten reactions. It's sort of unkind to say "it's not gluten" the same way doctors do to us all the time. One of the things I've learned around this board is to keep an open mind about the myriad ways gluten can creep up on us!
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#7 yolo

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 10:51 PM

Ok. Cut a long story short. I've started to have gallbladder trouble. Serious issues with fatty foods ( left me ill for the Xmas hols ), and am due for an ultrasound soonish. However I've had more than my share of medical procedures this last year so I want to try and nip anything potentially serious in the bud.

I was and remain skeptical, but am doing the Liver Detox Plan by Xandria Williams as she /seems/ credible to me. I've been on it for a week now, and am finding it quite remarkable. I appear to be losing a whole bunch of fat rapidly which I struggled to lose despite some serious exercise earlier this year. So far 5 lbs in the last 4 days.

According to the book, toxins which have been stored away in fat can get released as you finally metabolise it after all those years of lugging it around. A google around leads to some articles, and Wikipedia entries which seem to back this up too ( look up toxins and adipose tissues ).

Now here's the kicker... I feel glutened. I have total control over my diet right now. Cooking from scratch using the simplest of ingredients. No vinegars, only fish and vegetables plus a little rice. All my supplements are lactose, dairy, soya and gluten free. I have never been more in tune with what I'm eating.

So why do I have the unmistakable sensation of being glutened? Muscle aches, neuropathy are all present. Stomach issues too, but that could simply be the diet change. Is it really possible that I could be re-releasing gluten into my system? Albeit to a lesser extent? Has anyone else done this?


Dear Noodle,

I feel for your condition and concern and in fact I am glad you started this discussion. Most intimately in fact since I am going through my own liver and gall bladder detox. Mine is self administered however. I do have an old book of Xandria's on detoxing, and it looks pretty good. I agree with you about it being best in these matters not to just go the AMA way where they are likely to just yank our your gall bladder.

I looked at her website and my big concern here is, if I am right, at least seemingly she is emphasizing laxatives: i.e. the cascara sagrada. Maybe you need it, maybe not. It might be a bit much. Definitely would cause the big D!

Also all those toxins out for the first time rather quickly might be a bit much. I suggest possibly going a little more slowly. I have myself years ago suffered from going on a couple of 3 day juice fasts and lost half my right kidney due to inflammation which quickly became nephritis.

Mind you this was years and years ago. I was still unknowledgeable about gluten even though I did know something about herbs soon after in any case. Which is what stopped the progression of nephritis. The docs were going to keep me on antibiotics forever due to my continued recurrence with kidney infections. We did not know the gluten was causing me spontaneous breakdown of my kidneys. We also did not know it was also due to all the bad chemicals I had been exposed to working for my dad on his rental houses as I grew up and after wards in grad school. The herbs thus saved my life, dandelion in particular since its good for both the liver and the kidneys and very detoxing in a gentle but effective way. Marshmallow root was also a big help as was uva ursi. I still use them in fact, except now for the uva ursi due to my salicylate sensitivitiy (SS). Thankfully there are homeopathics that now work for me if I need them....

Later by the time I was 30 I finally figured out I was sensitive to the gluten family. Of celiac I still did not have a clue despite the fact my mother should have said something given I was diagnosed for it when I was an infant. But that was then, eh? People thought you grew out of it and she did not want to "alarm me".

The problem I am having now with my gall bladder seems actually due to eating a diet richer in eggs and meat fat than I had done in a very long time before this last year (since I was trying to build u p my myelin sheath on my nerves). Plus of course I did not realize I was playing 'Russian Roulette with my liver as a consequence.

I was off the detox herbs due to my newly discovered salicylate sensitivity (SS). With that sensitivity the received wisdom is to stay off herbs. However it seems in actual fact that certain of the liver supporting detox herbs are an antidote to the SS. It makes sense since the SS condition is extremely hard on the liver. With it one is going around being toxified from aspirin like substances from a normal diet and usual spices and herbs and many vegetables as well as all nuts. Its hard to stay away completely from it.

Meanwhile here are you. I think it might be wise to consult with a naturopath or an experienced herbalist so you don't overload yourself by going about things too fast. Or call up Xandria's outfit for advice.

Xandria's method may seem to be natural and gradual to most people, but with celiac and related conditions, sometimes our built up toxicity levels need to be handled more gently and slowly. The thing is liver and gall bladder problems are pandemic for us. Its due to the damaged villi not processing fat appropriately, especially cholesterol.

I think one of the key things is to support the villi with things that heal it like the fibronyltic enzymes as well as the marshmallow root. Look it up--I have discussed it here elsewhere on celiac.com many times.

I am personally using dandelion root again as well as the marshmallow root alternating with barberry root for a couple of days, then Oregon Grape root, and finally nettles. This gives my body a chance to recover from the berberine in the barberry and grape root so I don't have the big D all the time.

Unless you are really blocked up, I think taking cascara sagrada on top of this would be too much and really unnecessary since all of the above listed herbs I take are mildly laxative except for the marshmallow root, which is anti inflammatory and soothing to the villi. For me in fact I don't know what I would do if I took the cascara too since already I have to be careful of the barberry root or Oregon grape root, both of which can cause diarrhea if you take too much.

All of these herbs too are good at reducing the cholesterol stored in your liver and bile. In fact they help with peristalsis by releasing the bile into your intestines, where its needed so you can process various fat soluble vitamins amongst other things.

What I notice for me is that I still get some D with this right now due to the gallbladder condition. Thus I now sometimes see the resultant gall stones on occasion come out in my stools. This is I guess is what should be happening. This morning I woke up feeling a lot clearer as a result of some activity that way last night. After a month and a half the results are starting to accumulate. I do think I will be keeping my gall bladder after all...

You can also use apple cider vinegar in water or fresh lemon or grapefruit juice similarly. They will stimulate the bile and reduce the size of the stones as well as move them along. The herbs though seem to break the cholesterol down more however. There are also some homeopathics that do the same thing.

Some use epsom salts if the bile ducts feel like they are blocked. It opens them up. Definitely you get the big D then! I haven't had to do that, but some rely on it. For me its good to know that if I need it I can use it. Meanwhile I do use some magnesium citrate, a close relative just to keep sane du to my SS condition. I have to watch how much I take so I again don't get diarrhea or too much of it... I also take epsom salt baths. They are great for helping your body to detox through the skin--and help me with my salicylate problem that affects my nerves, skin and liver so strongly.

Due to discomfort otherwise from my body, like you I am also staying off all eggs, meats and animal fats for now except for trout and shrimp. I only use fish oil and safflower oil for my oil these days. Many use olive oil (high in salicylates so a no no for me) with or without the apple cider vinegar (with the "mother"--i.e., alive) and/or lemon juice.

I am now also making home made organic 1% yogurt (fermented 24 hours to get rid of all the lactose). Again I have to keep the fat down for now. I don't imagine I will have to do this forever but my body tells me when I eat the wrong thing by getting a headache or shoulder pain. Initially I had pain in my right high side of my intestines under my nipple and below the last rib. This quickly went away after I changed my diet and started to use my old detox herbs.

My plan is to start making organic sauerkraut in a day or two. I am noticing eating live foods is helping me digest the beans I now need to eat as well as soaking the beans 2 days and cooking the hell out of them with several changes of water initially. I don't really want to eat much in the way of soy unless it is very fermented due to its poor track record on our nervous system and hormones not to speak of being cancer inducing. The jproblem with eating too much fish is that it is no longer very clean these days due to polluted waters etc.

I am also finding that the addition of enzymes is also helping. I take one by jarrow that features porcine lipase with alpha galactidase--that helps one digest beans better as well as starch, protein etc.

I notice my detox herbs are helping me to digest my food better in general. I saw one naturopathic site the other day that said that dandelion root and leaves help the body produce more HCL in the stomach which then also somehow leads to more bile produced in the liver and gall bladder which then releases into the intestines for better peristalsis--as well as breaking down the cholesterol better.

Hope this helps. Do let us know what symptoms you are actually having...and what herbs you are taking.
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Diagnosed celiac sprue as infant: failure to thrive & pneumonia-back on grains age 4. Began herbs 1971 combating chronic kidney disease/general ill health 1973. Avoid wheat family and "allergens" by 1980. Late 80's doc. diagnosed candida: cave-man diet. Diagnosed degraded myelin sheath 2006; need co-enzyme B vitamins. Discovered celiac fall 2007; finally told diagnosis as infant. Recently found I am salicylic acid intolerant. Ironically can't tolerate most herbs now. Can now eat brown rice & other gluten-free grains (except corn) & even maple syrup & now homeopathic medicine works! Am still exploring the shape of this elephant but I've made progress!

#8 AVR1962

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 11:03 PM

BE VERY VERY CAREFUL! I amn not familiar with the program you are using however I did an herbal liver detox by Elemis just over a year ago. At first I was doing really well but then it went real bad. I ended up in ER with my heart going nuts (48 years old), my blood pressure was high. Doc said I reacted to the herbs, that they were too strong and that the amount was like a person's body would react to large doses of energy drinks or caffeine.

Not only was it too much but I do beleive that is what tore up my system in the first place as that's when all the terrible burning in my stomach started. My pancreas, gallbladder and spleen were all swollen. Because I was unable to drink enough water (I was taking in 3 liters a day) I developed crystals in my kidneys which I eventually passed, and I can assure you that is no fun!

It worked all right, went thru a horrible detox process, left my liver clean as a baby's liver and that's when it reveiled all my health issues that had been lingering in the background for 2+ years.

The weight loss you are experiencing is water weight. These detox program have diuretics ingredients and inturn you are to drink larger than normal amounts of liquids to flush out the impurities. Drink no caffeine or alcohol while you do this as the diurectics can overwhelm the body if you compound with with more substances like alcohol and caffeine.

I think your body is telling you something by your symptoms and I would be very cautious to remain on the product. Alot of people do these and they are safe. My experience was very bad and I warn people now. I don't mean to scare anyone. You just have to be very careful!
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Yesterday is not ours to recover but today is ours to win or lose!

Miscarriage, Kidney stones, Anemia, Pneumonia, Migraines, Restless leg, Bone fractures, Blurred/Double vision, Extreme fatigue, Bone & Joint Pain, Thyroid nodule, Celiac diagnosed 2011, Spine and leg bone loss, GERD, Vitamin deficiencies, Malabsorbtion, Neuropathy issues, Ataxia, Raynaud's Syndrome. Currently on diet with limited grain and sugar.

#9 NoodleUnit

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:14 PM

Hi there,

Thanks for all the replies. Thought I'd give a heads up.

Don't worry, I'm being careful. It's not really that kind of heavy duty detox I think. It's more focussed on diet ( in terms of what you eat rather than how much ), than the supplements and the supplements you take are much more aimed at getting toxins out of your body once your liver and gallbladder start working and metabolising the fat. For me the supplements are a little Slippery Elm and some vitamin supplements to help the liver repair itself and function. I'm thinking of adding Grape Seed Extract after having done some research on it, but that'll be it.

There is a list of allowed foods and a list of ones that you shouldn't eat. So right now, poultry and eggs are out for example. But in another week, I get to add them back to my diet along with some fats ( coconut milk I think ).

The food is decent and I'm not lacking for calories or protein. It's just that for the first two weeks, that protein comes from fish. Also almost all fats are cut out except for those contained in olive oil and the like. I have hot water and lemon in the morning I juice in the morning, salad at lunchtime and then have some nice seafood dishes in the evening with a hearty helping of veg. I also drink a lot of water through the day. All the herbs and spices are aimed at aiding liver function too, turmeric being one well known example, nutmeg also gets used quite a lot. What there very definitely isn't, is any mention of calorific intake.

Since my last post I've lost a further 3 pounds which is quite remarkable, but predicted in the book. I have lost weight rapidly in the past, but this year, aside from the rapid weight loss when I got ill with celiac disease, I've been stuck at my weight. the book said that for many people, once the liver gets a chance to recover, it starts to metabolise fat rapidly and the main focus then has to be safe removal of toxins stored with them.

Which brings me to the glutening. As Skylark suggests, for me, the sensation of being glutened is very specific. It involves neuropathy down my right side and is very different from anything I get from, say, dairy or soya. So I'm certain I got glutened. and I'm equally certain I didn't ingest any. I'm 100% in control of my diet right now. Which lead me to believe it was treated as a toxin by my system. The sensation of glutening is lessening now but is still not down to zero, which suggests to me I'm still metabolising fat put on when I started reacting to gluten. I admit I have no idea how this can be but I do know a lot of research points to fat loss and redistribution of toxins in the system. Also, to add, according to my scales ( which measure fat percentage ) this is not water I'm losing, it really is mostly fat from what I can see.

http://www.scienceda...41219134759.htm

http://www.wellnessr...s_cause_obesity

Another thing that seems to be happening is spots. I'm a 40 year old male. I haven't had a spot problem in decades. It's just another thing pointing towards the metabolising of fat and the release of toxins. It is absolutely fascinating to me.
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#10 Elizabeth5220

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:38 PM

Just so you're aware...there is a big difference between losing weight on the scale and actually losing fat. It is physically impossible to lose 5 pounds of fat in 4 days. Whenever you see quick weight loss it almost always water. To lose one pound of fat in one day you need to run a 3500 calorie deficit...meaning if you eat 1500 calories, you need to burn 5000!
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