"Cross Reactivity"

[vb10]

I also had palpitations at times, but I chalked those up to menopause. I'm on bio estrogen and haven't had any palps for awhile. I also had restless sleep, but again, I think the bio estrogen and progesterone may be helping as well as some 5HTP. I also have had some hair loss and very thin nails, that for awhile had the oddest appearance. When i asked my doctors about my nails, they had nothing to offer. But now, again, while on thyroid hormone for awhile, they are still thin, but healthier.

I'll check the thyroid hormone, I didn't thing of that. I also take a lot of vitamins, so I should check those too I suppose.

As for spices, why those? And all grains, would that be rice too? I thought all the gluten-free products had rice, or quinoa, should I stay away from all that as well?

TY

I was taking vitamins for nails and hair. It stopped the hair loss, but my vitamins were just masking the symptoms. My palpitations and night sweats went away after the first month on the Paleo diet (no gluten and no grains).

Rice does not have gluten, you are correct. However, there is a thing called cross-reactivity. Do you know why most gluten sensitive people develop lactose intolerance after going gluten-free? Because lactose has a structure similar to gluten and the body thinks it is gluten and attacks it as such.

So I would eliminate all grains and potatoes, because the structure is similar to make sure you do not have cross-reactivity. After a week on this diet you will either feel the difference or not. If you do not feel it, go back to gluten free grains, legumes and everything else. If you feel the difference, I would suggest to stay on this diet. It will help you to answer the question - how long before you know it. Also, just so you know, most shampoos, soaps and make up have gluten. Make sure to use gluten-free while you are trying to figure out what you have.

I found that many different spices and even table salt have additives to prevent clumping. They don't even list them on the ingredients!

Oh, and Hashimoto is closely related to gluten - most autoimmune diseases go together.

Good luck! By the way, you sound gluten intolerant to me!!!

[IrishHeart]

Do you know why most gluten sensitive people develop lactose intolerance after going gluten-free? Because lactose has a structure similar to gluten and the body thinks it is gluten and attacks it as such.

So I would eliminate all grains and potatoes, because the structure is similar to make sure you do not have cross-reactivity.

I found that many different spices and even table salt have additives to prevent clumping. They don't even list them on the ingredients!

Really? Where did you read this? I would love to see the research.

Thanks!

IH

[kareng]

I was taking vitamins for nails and hair. It stopped the hair loss, but my vitamins were just masking the symptoms. My palpitations and night sweats went away after the first month on the Paleo diet (no gluten and no grains).

Rice does not have gluten, you are correct. However, there is a thing called cross-reactivity. Do you know why most gluten sensitive people develop lactose intolerance after going gluten-free? Because lactose has a structure similar to gluten and the body thinks it is gluten and attacks it as such.

So I would eliminate all grains and potatoes, because the structure is similar to make sure you do not have cross-reactivity. After a week on this diet you will either feel the difference or not. If you do not feel it, go back to gluten free grains, legumes and everything else. If you feel the difference, I would suggest to stay on this diet. It will help you to answer the question - how long before you know it. Also, just so you know, most shampoos, soaps and make up have gluten. Make sure to use gluten-free while you are trying to figure out what you have.

I found that many different spices and even table salt have additives to prevent clumping. They don't even list them on the ingredients!

Oh, and Hashimoto is closely related to gluten - most autoimmune diseases go together.

Good luck! By the way, you sound gluten intolerant to me!!!

You can't make claims like this without legitimate scientific evidence. Most people are lactose intolerant, at least at first, because the tips of the villi digest lactose.

Spice companies will take issue with you accusing them of violating the FDa labelling laws by not disclosing the ingredients. Wheat flour would be a bad anti- clumping agent because it gets sticky when damp.

[vb10]

"ouch, potatoes, rice? those are my favs, that I thought were gluten free."

They ARE gluten free.

What I am trying to explain that there is a thing that is called cross-reactivity. I have it, you might not have it.

If you want to eat rice and potatoes - that's fine. Just make sure to eliminate ALL GLUTEN from your food and non-food sources. I would continue with your medication and everything else that your doctor told you to take to make sure it is gluten free. Check with your doctor that all your medication is gluten -free. As for the vitamins and supplements, make sure they are gluten free.

I am trying to get my point across, but I think I am not doing a very good job.

My point is: try elimination diet to eliminate any possible cause of gluten or any cross-reactivity to gluten. You don't have to be on elimination diet for the rest of your life, but it will help you to see whether you are gluten-intolerant or not.

Here is my elimination diet:

1. meat/chicken/fish

2. vegetables (I do not eat nightshades)

3. fruits

No salt, no spices, no sugar, no dairy, no corn, no soy, no anything else.

I am not saying you have to be on this diet for the rest of your life (although I am on it since October 22nd and I love the results).

But if you feel much better going on this diet, it means that you are gluten sensitive.

If you are not feeling any better, go back to rice, potatoes and quinoa but still try to avoid gluten at all costs. Gluten is just a time bomb. You never know when it is going to go off.

[vb10]

Really? Where did you read this? I would love to see the research.

Thanks!

IH

Hi, the first two weeks after being diagnosed gluten-intolerant I have spent on the internet reading and listening to everything regarding the dangers of gluten.

I also developed intolerance to ... pretty much everything. Do you know that I cannot consume gluten-free foods? My body reacts to them as if they have gluten. I cannot have rice and potatoes (and happy about it, I hate cooking them).

I have listened to two lectures (on Youtube) regarding gluten cross-reactivity. One was done by a researcher from Mayo clinic, another one is by a holistic doctor. I am not sure if I will be able to find them, but if I will, I will post them here.

You can Google "cross-reactivity to gluten" and "gluten intolerance and lactose intolerance" and spend a couple of hours reading.

[vb10]

Really? Where did you read this? I would love to see the research.

Thanks!

IH

I found one of the sites, but she has like 143 videos on it - I am not sure which one I watched. Here is the site: Open Original Shared Link

[mushroom]

When we first go gluten free our immune systems are often in a hyper-reactive state and ready to react to anything that might be a bit iffy - its ability to discriminate is impaired. That is why it is desirable to reduce your food intake to things that your body knows and recognizes as safe - the keep it super simple (KISS) method. Once you have stabilized your diet on three or four (or however many our body will tolerate) foods, then you eat only those, and add in an additional food each week so you can tell how you react to it. This not only allows you to weed out "bad actors" but it allows your autoimmune system to recover from the constant barrage of having to discriminate between the good and the bad.

Once you have stabilized on a diet your body is happy with and you add in the extra goodies one each work, you can soon find out if your body likes or dislikes them, and your immune system is not overloaded with decisions. You should be able to expand your range of foods quite rapidly with this system. If your body reacts to a nightshade, hold off on other nightshades (like potatoes, for example). If our body reacts to a legume, back off on legumes before you challenge them again. Same with dairy. Grains are problematic because our primary problem is with a grain. There are many grains I also have problelms with, so I believe they are best left alone for a while (which puts us closer to the Paleo diet).

To get a balanced diet you do have to try things like the good fats - olive oil, nuts, avocadoes, nut butters (assuming nuts are not a problem for you). You can get by with an unbalanced diet for a while but you should try to balance it out before long.

[vb10]

I agree with Mushroom completely (by the way, when I saw Mushroom's profile for the first time I thought - wow, I wonder what this person eats - there is not much left).

I found that there is a lot of research (very scientific by the way) that backs up Mushroom's statement, but Mushroom (not sure he or she) described it from a medical point of view where I read about it from a biological point of view and it is different, but the idea is the same.

I cannot even eat half of what people on Paleo can eat. My body rebels against all nuts, all oils (including coconut, )soy and soy products, citrus fruits, herbs and lots of other things. But I am not complaining. For the first time in my life I feel what REAL FOOD tastes like. No salt, no sugar, no sauces, no anything masking the flavors. And you know what? It is delicious! I used to be a chocoholic. Now my body craves for Brussel sprouts and spinach. I can eat spinach like there is no tomorrow. I think I should just move to a spinach farm and just find work there.

[IrishHeart]

Hi, the first two weeks after being diagnosed gluten-intolerant I have spent on the internet reading and listening to everything regarding the dangers of gluten.

I also developed intolerance to ... pretty much everything. Do you know that I cannot consume gluten-free foods? My body reacts to them as if they have gluten. I cannot have rice and potatoes (and happy about it, I hate cooking them).

I have listened to two lectures (on Youtube) regarding gluten cross-reactivity. One was done by a researcher from Mayo clinic, another one is by a holistic doctor. I am not sure if I will be able to find them, but if I will, I will post them here.

You can Google "cross-reactivity to gluten" and "gluten intolerance and lactose intolerance" and spend a couple of hours reading.

You seemed to have missed my point. I HAVE read about gluten for 3 years ---and NOWHERE did I see anything about cross-reactivity from foods in a MEDICAL or SCIENTIFIC journal.

When you post something as being "IN fact", there is an expectation that you can provide the source of your information.

Do people have multiple food intolerances ?

Yes!! I have a few myself.

But the "cross-reactivity" issue??---I cannot find anything to support this theory.

Point me to something definite and I will be happy to read it.

[IrishHeart]

I found one of the sites, but she has like 143 videos on it - I am not sure which one I watched. Here is the site: Open Original Shared Link

That does not help.

143 videos?

[vb10]

That does not help.

143 videos?

Okay, here are some: (info on her)

Open Original Shared Link

(video)

Open Original Shared Link

I am looking for a Mayo clinic guy - but it is going to take some time.

[IrishHeart]

Okay, here are some: (info on her)

Open Original Shared Link

(video)

Open Original Shared Link

I am looking for a Mayo clinic guy - but it is going to take some time.

Not necessary, hon. I got the gist of what she said. What she is talking about is exactly what I said---other food intolerances secondary to gluten intolerance-- often found in celiac. The most common is lactose intolerance due to blunted villi. For many, soy is also a factor.

Giving it a new name like "cross- reactivity" does not make it another condition. It's a food intolerance.

Cross-reactivity to food ALLERGIES (IgE-mediated) is a separate issue of clinical significance.

The intolerances usually resolve after avoiding those offending proteins for some time and healing the gut, but sadly, some people have them for life.

[vb10]

While searching, I found this from a holistic medical journal: Open Original Shared Link

This article provides quite a few reputable medical sources, not holistic:

Open Original Shared Link

[IrishHeart]

While searching, I found this from a holistic medical journal: Open Original Shared Link

This article provides quite a few reputable medical sources, not holistic:

Open Original Shared Link

A BLOG is NOT a valid research article.

In the second BLOG you link to, the woman incorporates EXCERPTS from various notable medical professionals' articles to discuss celiac and gut permeability, NOT the validity of cross-reactivity. Suggesting this is the case is MISLEADING (and also demonstrates that you did not even read the blog entry very carefully.)

In fact, she states the following:

"When I went to the Gluten and Allergen Free Expo in Chicago this past May, I had the opportunity to speak with Carol McCarthy Shilson, Executive Director of The University of Chicago Celiac Disease Center so I seized the opportunity to ask her if she knew of any research supporting gluten-associated cross-reactive foods (that I could share in this post), as well as her thoughts on the stool tests for gluten sensitivity (such as the test from Enterolab, which we ordered for our youngest son in 2010 and I shared the results of here). Carol was emphatic that there is no research supporting claims of gluten-associated cross-reactive foods and that stool testing for gluten sensitivity is not valid either (and then gave me the clear indication that she thought I was reaching for straws.)"

So, she paid for a test to be done to prove her point because she states she made it "her mission" to do so. She did this knowing, as she states " there is not much clinical data showing how patients have responded to the removal of the cross-reactive foods."

I am sorry, but you are going way off track here --unable to provide supportive research for your claims and the original poster's topic is lost.

If you want to believe in "cross-reactivity", that's great, but be sure to say it is your OPINION.

[vb10]

Why do I have to do all the searching? There are like TONS of articles and it takes time for me to look them up.

Here:

1. Open Original Shared Link

2. Open Original Shared Link

3. Open Original Shared Link

There are more, but even if I dig up one million articles, I know I am not going to persuade you. You can believe whatever you want to believe. By the way, these are NOT BLOGS.

[IrishHeart]

Why do I have to do all the searching? There are like TONS of articles and it takes time for me to look them up.

Here:

1. Open Original Shared Link

2. Open Original Shared Link

3. Open Original Shared Link

There are more, but even if I dig up one million articles, I know I am not going to persuade you. You can believe whatever you want to believe. By the way, these are NOT BLOGS.

Nope, they are not blogs; but they are ALL from the same source.

Are you carefully reading the things you are linking to?

They are all from the same source-- the man who developed the test and a description of the test itself. All 3 come from the same place--Cyrex Labs.

[vb10]

As far as I know, there is only one test that is developed. How many tests do you need?

Yes, there is such a thing as cross-reactivity, it can be tested and the mechanics are known. What are you trying to say? That there is no such thing?

[IrishHeart]

As far as I know, there is only one test that is developed. How many tests do you need?

Yes, there is such a thing as cross-reactivity, it can be tested and the mechanics are known. What are you trying to say? That there is no such thing?

I do not "need any more tests".

I asked you--at the beginning of this discussion-- for CREDIBLE, peer-reviewed SOURCES of information about "cross-reactivity" to foods in celiac---(I asked you "Do you mean secondary food intolerances"? --you did not answer)-- and you can only provide two sources of information. (1) The DC who developed the test (and bloggers who took the test he developed) and (2) a DC who uses the test in her practice.

I am not saying they do not believe it is real. They obviously do.

If you have something else-- a peer-reviewed study perhaps? =--I am willing and eager to read it. I am an open-minded person (and those how know me on here will attest to that). But you have not given me anything substantial.

I am sorry you cannot see what I am trying to get you to see. You are set in your thoughts and that is fine. It's off topic and unfair to the original poster.

[Skylark]

Why do I have to do all the searching? There are like TONS of articles and it takes time for me to look them up.

Here:

1. Open Original Shared Link

2. Open Original Shared Link

3. Open Original Shared Link

There are more, but even if I dig up one million articles, I know I am not going to persuade you. You can believe whatever you want to believe. By the way, these are NOT BLOGS.

They are NOT PEER REVIEWED RESEARCH either. Anyone can put anything on the Ineternet, whether it is true or not. If someone is selling a product or service, like Cyrex or Enterolab, you need to look for independent and preferably peer-reviewed substantiation of their claims.

The first article is interesting and does mention a peer-reviewed study. I'm not sure why you posted it though, since it's about autoimmune cross-reactions, not food reactions. In the peer-reviewed part, the authors actually failed to find cross-reactivity to anti-gliadin antibody targets using antibodies raised against other foods. The point of the peer-reviewed study is that a cross-reaction between gliadin and a cerebellar/purkinje cell antigen that may be part of the explanation of why gluten-free diets are helpful in autism.

Open Original Shared Link

There are documented IgE mediated allergic cross-reactions like latex, banana, and avocado, so one cannot assume there are not cross-reactions with anti-gliadin IgA, but these Cyrex sales articles don't demonstrate anything at all. They are just citing a bunch of references that have nothing to do with gluten. (Did you read the peer-reviewed references provided by Cyrex???) There is not enough information about the methodology Cyrex is using to tell what they are even measuring.

This is the kind of careful study that must be done to look for cross-reactivity. The only really clean, convincing study of a cross-reaction to anti-gliadin antibodies I've found in the peer-reviewed literature is against dairy. (I'd love more references if anyone else has come across them!)

Open Original Shared Link

Here authors found anti-oat antibodies but they were NOT cross-reactive with the anti-gliadin. This demonstrates how careful studies have to be before assuming cross-reactivity - oats and wheat are quite similar.

Open Original Shared Link

No cross-reaction to tef, millet, amaranth, and quinoa.

Open Original Shared Link

Now, I'm not saying gliadin cross-reactions other than casein don't ever occur. What I'm saying is that you are beating up other board members using a marketing article as ammo. Not a very convincing position...

[Skylark]

By the way, there is a much simpler explanation than cross-reactivity. Celiacs have a lot of food antibodies in general. Eating foods you're sensitive to can cause inflammation, which increases intestinal epithelial permeability and allows gluten better access to the lamina propria where it can wreak its havoc.

Back to the original poster: It took my mom's reflux a couple months gluten-free to improve. She is also fructose intolerant and part of her issue may be fructans in wheat as well as gluten sensitivity.

Have you looked at any of the info on low stomach acid and reflux? There are a lot of gatroenterologists trying to remind people that an acid blocker only works if acid is high, not low. One of my aunts was on omeprazole for years and weaned herself off of it. She feels much better now, and has discovered that much of her reflux was caused by a severe sensitivity to garlic of all things.

[mushroom]

Why do I have to do all the searching? There are like TONS of articles and it takes time for me to look them up.

The board rules allow you to express an opinion or a belief without substantiation. If you are claiming a scientific fact it must be able to be supported with appropriate scientific documentation.

It is perfectly okay to state an opinion, and others will take that as just your opinion. You will often see the acronym IMHO (in my humble opinion). But stating something as proven fact requires more substantiation than someone's blog or an article written by a journalist..

[vb10]

Now, I'm not saying gliadin cross-reactions other than casein don't ever occur. What I'm saying is that you are beating up other board members using a marketing article as ammo. Not a very convincing position...

I am beating up other board members? That is a very strong statement. I would like to see some supportive details for this statement, as I may. Preferably, with my quotes where I am beating other board members up.

I have used the term cross-reactivity and I have made a point to another person that such thing does exist. If there is no cross-reactivity to gluten, then I would like to see your arguments against it. The arguments that you have used so far do not sound very convincing to me.

Thank you.

[vb10]

The board rules allow you to express an opinion or a belief without substantiation. If you are claiming a scientific fact it must be able to be supported with appropriate scientific documentation.

It is perfectly okay to state an opinion, and others will take that as just your opinion. You will often see the acronym IMHO (in my humble opinion). But stating something as proven fact requires more substantiation than someone's blog or an article written by a journalist..

Here are the facts:

1. The term cross-reactivity does exist. Cross-reactivity to gluten is being researched.

2. Some people develop gluten-like response to foods that do not have gluten, especially grains, dairy and starches. There should be more research, and there should be more peer-reviewed articles in the future. I believe this research on gluten in on-going on in many countries just as we discuss it here. People who are trying to follow a Gluten Free diet have to be aware of it.

Could you please disprove the facts I have stated above?

[mushroom]

Here are the facts:

1. The term cross-reactivity does exist. Cross-reactivity to gluten is being researched.

2. Some people develop gluten-like response to foods that do not have gluten, especially grains, dairy and starches. There should be more research, and there should be more peer-reviewed articles in the future. I believe this research on gluten in on-going on in many countries just as we discuss it here. People who are trying to follow a Gluten Free diet have to be aware of it.

Could you please disprove the facts I have stated above?

It is not up to me to prove "facts" that you state; that is your obligation. Otherwise you state them as opinion or belief.

We have gone for years believing that there was non-celiac gluten intolerance. We could not state it as fact. because research stated that if it were not celiac then you didn't have to worry about it. Now the researchers are on it and the facts are coming out. Until the researchers produce facts it is just opinion. Cross-reactivity is a term that in and of itself means nothing unless it is substantiated with information and research.

And I state this unequivocally as someone who has developed reactions to many foods since going gluten free. I do not term them cross-reactivity. I term them additional intolerances, many of them developed because I had a leaky gut which allowed larger molecules of these foods to filter into my bloodstream and be attacked by T-cells which were put on guard and created a hyper-sensitivity in my body to what it perceived to be alien invaders. I state this not as fact, but as my opinion.

[IrishHeart]

Here are the facts:

1. The term cross-reactivity does exist. Cross-reactivity to gluten is being researched.

2. Some people develop gluten-like response to foods that do not have gluten, especially grains, dairy and starches. There should be more research, and there should be more peer-reviewed articles in the future. I believe this research on gluten in on-going on in many countries just as we discuss it here. People who are trying to follow a Gluten Free diet have to be aware of it.

Could you please disprove the facts I have stated above?

These are not facts. They are your opinions.

"The term cross-reactivity exists"--the TERM exists, as do the TERMS "ballpark figure" and "downward spiral". Lots of terms "exist".

"Is being researched"---- by WHOM EXACTLY??? Someone other than the man who invented the test? GIVE PROOF.

"there should be more research"---well, there SHOULD be lots of things ---like tasty gluten-free bread and world peace. Maybe there should be more research, but there ISN'T.

"and there should be more peer-reviewed articles in the future"--and this is EVIDENCE? That is just a statement as in "there should be flying cars in the future" or "There should be an end to world hunger in the future."

The definition of the word "should" means "give an opinion or recommendation". These are NOT FACTS.

"I believe this research is ongoing on in many countries just as we discuss it here"--again, WHERE EXACTLY? Do you have ANY SUBSTANTIAL evidence to support this statement?

There are food intolerances. Skylark and Mushroom and I have explained it to you and Skylark has graciously provided you with ample research to support this information.

Read the supported evidence.

If you choose to ignore it, that's your business.

But here is the bottom line, you can't just take things off the internet--advertisements and blogs--and suggest they are PROOF.

That is not only wrong-- it is misleading to the newly diagnosed who come to this forum looking for answers and help.