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"Cross Reactivity"


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#1 vb10

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:11 PM

I also had palpitations at times, but I chalked those up to menopause. I'm on bio estrogen and haven't had any palps for awhile. I also had restless sleep, but again, I think the bio estrogen and progesterone may be helping as well as some 5HTP. I also have had some hair loss and very thin nails, that for awhile had the oddest appearance. When i asked my doctors about my nails, they had nothing to offer. But now, again, while on thyroid hormone for awhile, they are still thin, but healthier.

I'll check the thyroid hormone, I didn't thing of that. I also take a lot of vitamins, so I should check those too I suppose.

As for spices, why those? And all grains, would that be rice too? I thought all the gluten-free products had rice, or quinoa, should I stay away from all that as well?

TY


I was taking vitamins for nails and hair. It stopped the hair loss, but my vitamins were just masking the symptoms. My palpitations and night sweats went away after the first month on the Paleo diet (no gluten and no grains).

Rice does not have gluten, you are correct. However, there is a thing called cross-reactivity. Do you know why most gluten sensitive people develop lactose intolerance after going gluten-free? Because lactose has a structure similar to gluten and the body thinks it is gluten and attacks it as such.

So I would eliminate all grains and potatoes, because the structure is similar to make sure you do not have cross-reactivity. After a week on this diet you will either feel the difference or not. If you do not feel it, go back to gluten free grains, legumes and everything else. If you feel the difference, I would suggest to stay on this diet. It will help you to answer the question - how long before you know it. Also, just so you know, most shampoos, soaps and make up have gluten. Make sure to use gluten-free while you are trying to figure out what you have.

I found that many different spices and even table salt have additives to prevent clumping. They don't even list them on the ingredients!

Oh, and Hashimoto is closely related to gluten - most autoimmune diseases go together.

Good luck! By the way, you sound gluten intolerant to me!!! :rolleyes:
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#2 IrishHeart

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:42 AM

Do you know why most gluten sensitive people develop lactose intolerance after going gluten-free? Because lactose has a structure similar to gluten and the body thinks it is gluten and attacks it as such.

So I would eliminate all grains and potatoes, because the structure is similar to make sure you do not have cross-reactivity.

I found that many different spices and even table salt have additives to prevent clumping. They don't even list them on the ingredients!


Really? Where did you read this? I would love to see the research.

Thanks!
IH
  • 4

"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else" Booker T. Washington

“If idiots could fly, the sky would be like an airport.”― Laura Davenport 

"LTES"  Gem 2014

 

Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; Finally Diagnosed with Celiac  11/01/10.  Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. bliss-smiley-emoticon.gif


#3 kareng

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:29 AM

I was taking vitamins for nails and hair. It stopped the hair loss, but my vitamins were just masking the symptoms. My palpitations and night sweats went away after the first month on the Paleo diet (no gluten and no grains).

Rice does not have gluten, you are correct. However, there is a thing called cross-reactivity. Do you know why most gluten sensitive people develop lactose intolerance after going gluten-free? Because lactose has a structure similar to gluten and the body thinks it is gluten and attacks it as such.

So I would eliminate all grains and potatoes, because the structure is similar to make sure you do not have cross-reactivity. After a week on this diet you will either feel the difference or not. If you do not feel it, go back to gluten free grains, legumes and everything else. If you feel the difference, I would suggest to stay on this diet. It will help you to answer the question - how long before you know it. Also, just so you know, most shampoos, soaps and make up have gluten. Make sure to use gluten-free while you are trying to figure out what you have.

I found that many different spices and even table salt have additives to prevent clumping. They don't even list them on the ingredients!

Oh, and Hashimoto is closely related to gluten - most autoimmune diseases go together.

Good luck! By the way, you sound gluten intolerant to me!!! :rolleyes:


You can't make claims like this without legitimate scientific evidence. Most people are lactose intolerant, at least at first, because the tips of the villi digest lactose.

Spice companies will take issue with you accusing them of violating the FDa labelling laws by not disclosing the ingredients. Wheat flour would be a bad anti- clumping agent because it gets sticky when damp.
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#4 vb10

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:48 PM

"ouch, potatoes, rice? those are my favs, that I thought were gluten free."

They ARE gluten free.

What I am trying to explain that there is a thing that is called cross-reactivity. I have it, you might not have it.

If you want to eat rice and potatoes - that's fine. Just make sure to eliminate ALL GLUTEN from your food and non-food sources. I would continue with your medication and everything else that your doctor told you to take to make sure it is gluten free. Check with your doctor that all your medication is gluten -free. As for the vitamins and supplements, make sure they are gluten free.

I am trying to get my point across, but I think I am not doing a very good job.
My point is: try elimination diet to eliminate any possible cause of gluten or any cross-reactivity to gluten. You don't have to be on elimination diet for the rest of your life, but it will help you to see whether you are gluten-intolerant or not.

Here is my elimination diet:
1. meat/chicken/fish
2. vegetables (I do not eat nightshades)
3. fruits

No salt, no spices, no sugar, no dairy, no corn, no soy, no anything else.

I am not saying you have to be on this diet for the rest of your life (although I am on it since October 22nd and I love the results).
But if you feel much better going on this diet, it means that you are gluten sensitive.

If you are not feeling any better, go back to rice, potatoes and quinoa but still try to avoid gluten at all costs. Gluten is just a time bomb. You never know when it is going to go off.
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#5 vb10

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:59 PM

Really? Where did you read this? I would love to see the research.

Thanks!
IH


Hi, the first two weeks after being diagnosed gluten-intolerant I have spent on the internet reading and listening to everything regarding the dangers of gluten.

I also developed intolerance to ... pretty much everything. Do you know that I cannot consume gluten-free foods? My body reacts to them as if they have gluten. I cannot have rice and potatoes (and happy about it, I hate cooking them).

I have listened to two lectures (on Youtube) regarding gluten cross-reactivity. One was done by a researcher from Mayo clinic, another one is by a holistic doctor. I am not sure if I will be able to find them, but if I will, I will post them here.

You can Google "cross-reactivity to gluten" and "gluten intolerance and lactose intolerance" and spend a couple of hours reading.
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#6 vb10

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 01:13 AM

Really? Where did you read this? I would love to see the research.

Thanks!
IH


I found one of the sites, but she has like 143 videos on it - I am not sure which one I watched. Here is the site: http://www.youtube.c...l?feature=watch
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#7 mushroom

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 01:53 AM

When we first go gluten free our immune systems are often in a hyper-reactive state and ready to react to anything that might be a bit iffy - its ability to discriminate is impaired. That is why it is desirable to reduce your food intake to things that your body knows and recognizes as safe - the keep it super simple (KISS) method. Once you have stabilized your diet on three or four (or however many our body will tolerate) foods, then you eat only those, and add in an additional food each week so you can tell how you react to it. This not only allows you to weed out "bad actors" but it allows your autoimmune system to recover from the constant barrage of having to discriminate between the good and the bad.

Once you have stabilized on a diet your body is happy with and you add in the extra goodies one each work, you can soon find out if your body likes or dislikes them, and your immune system is not overloaded with decisions. You should be able to expand your range of foods quite rapidly with this system. If your body reacts to a nightshade, hold off on other nightshades (like potatoes, for example). If our body reacts to a legume, back off on legumes before you challenge them again. Same with dairy. Grains are problematic because our primary problem is with a grain. There are many grains I also have problelms with, so I believe they are best left alone for a while (which puts us closer to the Paleo diet).

To get a balanced diet you do have to try things like the good fats - olive oil, nuts, avocadoes, nut butters (assuming nuts are not a problem for you). You can get by with an unbalanced diet for a while but you should try to balance it out before long.
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#8 vb10

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 04:32 AM

I agree with Mushroom completely (by the way, when I saw Mushroom's profile for the first time I thought - wow, I wonder what this person eats - there is not much left).

I found that there is a lot of research (very scientific by the way) that backs up Mushroom's statement, but Mushroom (not sure he or she) described it from a medical point of view where I read about it from a biological point of view and it is different, but the idea is the same.

I cannot even eat half of what people on Paleo can eat. My body rebels against all nuts, all oils (including coconut, )soy and soy products, citrus fruits, herbs and lots of other things. But I am not complaining. For the first time in my life I feel what REAL FOOD tastes like. No salt, no sugar, no sauces, no anything masking the flavors. And you know what? It is delicious! I used to be a chocoholic. Now my body craves for Brussel sprouts and spinach. I can eat spinach like there is no tomorrow. I think I should just move to a spinach farm and just find work there.
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#9 IrishHeart

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 07:34 AM

Hi, the first two weeks after being diagnosed gluten-intolerant I have spent on the internet reading and listening to everything regarding the dangers of gluten.

I also developed intolerance to ... pretty much everything. Do you know that I cannot consume gluten-free foods? My body reacts to them as if they have gluten. I cannot have rice and potatoes (and happy about it, I hate cooking them).

I have listened to two lectures (on Youtube) regarding gluten cross-reactivity. One was done by a researcher from Mayo clinic, another one is by a holistic doctor. I am not sure if I will be able to find them, but if I will, I will post them here.

You can Google "cross-reactivity to gluten" and "gluten intolerance and lactose intolerance" and spend a couple of hours reading.



You seemed to have missed my point. I HAVE read about gluten for 3 years ---and NOWHERE did I see anything about cross-reactivity from foods in a MEDICAL or SCIENTIFIC journal.

When you post something as being "IN fact", there is an expectation that you can provide the source of your information.

Do people have multiple food intolerances ?
Yes!! I have a few myself.

But the "cross-reactivity" issue??---I cannot find anything to support this theory.

Point me to something definite and I will be happy to read it.
  • 3

"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else" Booker T. Washington

“If idiots could fly, the sky would be like an airport.”― Laura Davenport 

"LTES"  Gem 2014

 

Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; Finally Diagnosed with Celiac  11/01/10.  Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. bliss-smiley-emoticon.gif


#10 IrishHeart

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 07:35 AM

I found one of the sites, but she has like 143 videos on it - I am not sure which one I watched. Here is the site: http://www.youtube.c...l?feature=watch



That does not help. :(
143 videos?
  • 2

"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else" Booker T. Washington

“If idiots could fly, the sky would be like an airport.”― Laura Davenport 

"LTES"  Gem 2014

 

Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; Finally Diagnosed with Celiac  11/01/10.  Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. bliss-smiley-emoticon.gif


#11 vb10

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:11 AM

That does not help. :(
143 videos?


Okay, here are some: (info on her)
http://www.healthnow...rsen-d-c-c-c-n/

(video)

http://www.triumphdi...ivity-dr-vikki/

I am looking for a Mayo clinic guy - but it is going to take some time.
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#12 IrishHeart

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:22 AM

Okay, here are some: (info on her)
http://www.healthnow...rsen-d-c-c-c-n/

(video)

http://www.triumphdi...ivity-dr-vikki/

I am looking for a Mayo clinic guy - but it is going to take some time.



Not necessary, hon. I got the gist of what she said. What she is talking about is exactly what I said---other food intolerances secondary to gluten intolerance-- often found in celiac. The most common is lactose intolerance due to blunted villi. For many, soy is also a factor.


Giving it a new name like "cross- reactivity" does not make it another condition. It's a food intolerance.

Cross-reactivity to food ALLERGIES (IgE-mediated) is a separate issue of clinical significance.

The intolerances usually resolve after avoiding those offending proteins for some time and healing the gut, but sadly, some people have them for life.
  • 4

"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else" Booker T. Washington

“If idiots could fly, the sky would be like an airport.”― Laura Davenport 

"LTES"  Gem 2014

 

Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; Finally Diagnosed with Celiac  11/01/10.  Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. bliss-smiley-emoticon.gif


#13 vb10

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:24 AM

While searching, I found this from a holistic medical journal: http://blog.primohea...-Reactive-Foods

This article provides quite a few reputable medical sources, not holistic:

http://www.adventure...reactive-foods/
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#14 IrishHeart

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:47 AM

While searching, I found this from a holistic medical journal: http://blog.primohea...-Reactive-Foods

This article provides quite a few reputable medical sources, not holistic:

http://www.adventure...reactive-foods/



A BLOG is NOT a valid research article.

In the second BLOG you link to, the woman incorporates EXCERPTS from various notable medical professionals' articles to discuss celiac and gut permeability, NOT the validity of cross-reactivity. Suggesting this is the case is MISLEADING (and also demonstrates that you did not even read the blog entry very carefully.)

In fact, she states the following:

"When I went to the Gluten and Allergen Free Expo in Chicago this past May, I had the opportunity to speak with Carol McCarthy Shilson, Executive Director of The University of Chicago Celiac Disease Center so I seized the opportunity to ask her if she knew of any research supporting gluten-associated cross-reactive foods (that I could share in this post), as well as her thoughts on the stool tests for gluten sensitivity (such as the test from Enterolab, which we ordered for our youngest son in 2010 and I shared the results of here). Carol was emphatic that there is no research supporting claims of gluten-associated cross-reactive foods and that stool testing for gluten sensitivity is not valid either (and then gave me the clear indication that she thought I was reaching for straws.)"

So, she paid for a test to be done to prove her point because she states she made it "her mission" to do so. She did this knowing, as she states " there is not much clinical data showing how patients have responded to the removal of the cross-reactive foods."

I am sorry, but you are going way off track here --unable to provide supportive research for your claims and the original poster's topic is lost.

If you want to believe in "cross-reactivity", that's great, but be sure to say it is your OPINION.
  • 4

"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way we cope with it makes the difference." Virginia Satir

"The strongest of all warriors are these two - time and patience." Leo Tolstoy

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else" Booker T. Washington

“If idiots could fly, the sky would be like an airport.”― Laura Davenport 

"LTES"  Gem 2014

 

Misdiagnosed for 25+ years; Finally Diagnosed with Celiac  11/01/10.  Double DQ2 genes. This thing tried to kill me. I view Celiac as a fire breathing dragon --and I have run my sword right through his throat.
I. Win. bliss-smiley-emoticon.gif


#15 vb10

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:34 PM

Why do I have to do all the searching? There are like TONS of articles and it takes time for me to look them up.

Here:
1. http://glutensensiti..._SenAug07-1.pdf

2. http://elizabethalkh...alAppArray4.pdf

3. http://www.thedr.com...s201crfoods.pdf

There are more, but even if I dig up one million articles, I know I am not going to persuade you. You can believe whatever you want to believe. By the way, these are NOT BLOGS.
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